Expat men, Chinese women (yes, again)

charisma-man-comic

First let me say this post is a rip-off from a new blog that came to my attention that you should go take a look at. It just started, but the posts that are there are all high-quality.

The post in question relates to a recent Global Times article about one of our favorite topics, namely the imbalance of Chinese men dating Western women compared to Chinese women dating Western men. (We all know which way the scale tips.)

We’ve talked about this anomaly several times before. Here’s what the experts say in the GT piece:

[F]or one of China’s most famous scholars of sex, Li Yinhe, the answer has much more to do with Chinese culture than with foreign attitudes. Asked why Chinese men rarely date foreign women, she said, “I’ve asked that question many times myself. One possibility is, men just don’t have the confidence.”

Casual dating is certainly a lessestablished part of Chinese culture. Twenty years ago, only 15 percent of people in China had sex before marriage, Li said. Today, half of women have already had sex when they are married, Li said, compared with 85 percent of Americans, according the American government’s National Survey of Family Growth.

Yan agrees that Chinese men have trouble approaching foreign women. “I know some Russian girls, and some of my guy friends say, oh, let’s have a party full of blonde girls. So maybe four or five girls and four or five guys go out. And then, the girls are there, and the guys are all together across the room,” Yan said. “They are afraid to be very aggressive, because, traditionally, those kind of men are bad men, playboys.”

Of course, many men in every country don’t really know how to approach women at all. Ashley Li, a 27-year-old Chinese teacher in Wangjing, said that she was looking for a serious relationship with a Chinese man, but had wound up dating foreign men at times because it was very difficult to find a boyfriend. She’s been single for a year, despite regularly going on blind dates.

There’s also an interview with an expat who is totally delighted with her Chinese boyfriend, so we know it’s not totally impossible. But as the cartoon above indicates, its the expat male who has the advantages, fair or not. All he has to do is show up, loser though he may be.

Check out the GT piece, as well as the new blog.

______________

Richard Burger is the author of Behind the Red Door: Sex in China, an exploration of China's sexual revolution and its clash with traditional Chinese values.

The Discussion: 131 Comments

deleted for obscenity

August 30, 2010 @ 4:01 am | Comment

“Back on his home planet of Canada”

Ha! As a Canadian, I have to laugh- unfortunately, many of the expats I met in China who could fit the mold of this cartoon were, for some reason, Canadian. What gives?? :-)

Disclaimer: I lived in China for several years and never dated a Chinese women. In fact, I ended up dating a Brit for a while. I was witness to the situation joked about in the cartoon many times, but unfortunately it wasn’t often funny: instead of the innocent “geek”, these were alcoholic, unbalanced middle-aged men who thought they had become kings of the world. Never a pretty sight.

August 30, 2010 @ 4:12 am | Comment

“Charisma Man” is about Western guy’s adventures in Japan (not in China). And it only shows that the situation is similar in many Asian countries.

August 30, 2010 @ 5:12 am | Comment

^ True enough. They are incredibly arrogant and disrespectful as well.

The main reason is this: money.

Gold diggers are gold diggers anywhere and sometimes the most classless minority of Chinese women will hound for foreigners for this alone.

All of the best gold diggers seem to hook up with Overseas Chinese though, leaving only the dregs for aforementioned unbalanced middle-aged men.

August 30, 2010 @ 5:40 am | Comment

I think we all know the cartoon is about Japan, and that it applies to China as well.

Merp, I don’t think it’s only about being gold-diggers. Some people are deeply attracted to members of certain ethnicities, I don’t know why. But it isn’t always about money.

Red Star gets the award for Most Charming Comment.

August 30, 2010 @ 5:55 am | Comment

What’s not much discussed is that sometimes it’s lethal. Figuratively and literally.

August 30, 2010 @ 6:30 am | Comment

Ellen, you are definitely onto something. The abuse can come from either direction. We have on the one hand predators like Chinabounder (and see the post from Crystal, the commenter above, on this topic; her blog is extremely interesting), and on the other hand we have gold-diggers who will go to extraordinary lengths to clean out the bank account of the Western man they love. It’s hard for me to be too sympathetic to these guys, considering how gullible and vain they are, but that doesn’t let the schemer off the hook either.

Update: Here’s what I should have added to this comment:

That said, most Western-Chinese couples I know are truly in love with one another and enjoy healthy, happy relationships. Just because there are some gold diggers and some sexual predators out there doesn’t mean all cross-ethnic relationships are bad – far from it.

August 30, 2010 @ 6:37 am | Comment

“Merp, I don’t think it’s only about being gold-diggers. Some people are deeply attracted to members of certain ethnicities, I don’t know why. But it isn’t always about money.”

I doubt this is the case most of the time. Most Chinese women simply are not interested in foreigners- however the ones that are gravitate towards them, of course. Mostly for money and status. However most “interethnic marriages” Chinese women are involved in are with Japanese and Overseas Chinese, as well as Koreans. Westerners (of all races) are only around 10% of these marriages, and if I remember correctly almost half end in divorce.

August 30, 2010 @ 6:55 am | Comment

Let’s see more comic strips on this Teen Beat subject from Charisma Man! It covers the subject in 60 words! Outstanding!

August 30, 2010 @ 7:31 am | Comment

Half of all marriages end in divorce in the USA and Britain anyway and in China the percentage is skyrocketing as well, whether inter-ethnic or not. Merp, hongxing are disgusting racists who should be banned. Highly offended. I mean none of their comments provide serious discussion of the topic. Two lonely creeps who have nothing better to do than spread hate on the Internet. The lowest of the low…I really don’t understand why the blog continues to allow them to post..they don’t even present an “intelligent” opposition to most issues discussed and personally it usually turns me off from even participating in most discussions here.

Also, I love how all the Chinese-Western relationships are based on gold digging or predators. I have been living in China now for over 5 years. I know a number of long term expats both men and women (mostly men yes) in relationships with Chinese nationals, and none of the discussion above describes their relationships. If you want to hang out in expat bars where 40 year old divorcees look for hook-ups and make a judgement on inter-ethnic relationships, then fine, but you’re only seeing one piece of the picture. I actually have yet to meet an expat not in a healthy loving relationship with their Chinese spouse, but that might be due to the company I keep. (The majority of healthy marriages I see are ones in which the couple is closer in age AND usually the husband was already semi-fluent in Chinese before they met. You people cite examples of ignorant middle-aged expats marrying young Chinese women. Guess what? Even if they were both the same race the odds are such an arrangement wouldn’t work out due to the age gap. Is it therefore fair to blame race?)

You all sound completely jaded. This is a terrible posts that just feeds into the stereotype without holding up healthy examples…sorry Richard, not a fan of this one.

August 30, 2010 @ 8:53 am | Comment

@AndyR: I really don’t understand why the blog continues to allow them to post

It’s always good to be reminded that dickheads are a global phenomenon.

August 30, 2010 @ 9:18 am | Comment

As someone who successfully married “inter-ethnically”, I mostly agree with AndyR. The age difference should be minimal, the foreigner should already know the language (not “half-know” it), both partners need to have had experience in each other’s cultures before meeting, and then after that it’s the same as with all marriages: there has to be fundamental agreement on fundamental aspects of life.
Then you have to be prepared for the cultural differences that make marriage more difficult even if you know each others’ cultures.
Something else to address: I’m not trying to be provocative here, but when I walk down the street, the proportion of foreign women who are poorly-dressed and overweight, that are also American, seems to be very high. And they’re the loudest complainers.

August 30, 2010 @ 9:41 am | Comment

“Merp, hongxing are disgusting racists who should be banned. Highly offended. I mean none of their comments provide serious discussion of the topic. Two lonely creeps who have nothing better to do than spread hate on the Internet…”

I’ll fetch the popcorn.

August 30, 2010 @ 9:48 am | Comment

Guys. I am not saying Chinese women are gold diggers; I argued that that is false. I do believe it’s easier for Western guys to find Asian soul mates than it is for Western women, and that some guys who might be seen as a loser in the US can come to China and have their needs fulfilled in a way they wouldn’t be at home. I don’t admire these guys, but I sure know some of them. Making that point in no way changes the FACT that there are many, many, very, very healthy relationships between Westerners and Chinese. I never said otherwise.

August 30, 2010 @ 9:48 am | Comment

I’ve always maintained that I’m a geek no matter what country I’m in.

August 30, 2010 @ 10:39 am | Comment

There is a huge sex imbalance among Westerners in China. I dated one of the very few young Caucasian women some years back when I was living in Hangzhou. Most of the non-Chinese friends we had were men. The young Western women in Hangzhou were largely short term exchange students who were not particularly interested in serious relationships. The older Western women actually had Chinese boyfriends. But when we talk about interracial couples, we focus on young couples, or at least Michael Douglas-Catherine Zeta Jones type couples. I guess Western women just don’t like live in completely different cultures for long.

August 30, 2010 @ 12:03 pm | Comment

Andy I should have zapped Red Star’s first comment and stood up more aggressively to Merp above. I also edited my earlier comment, which easily could have been misconstrued.

August 30, 2010 @ 12:11 pm | Comment

“That said, most Western-Chinese couples I know are truly in love with one another and enjoy healthy, happy relationships. Just because there are some gold diggers and some sexual predators out there doesn’t mean all cross-ethnic relationships are bad – far from it.”

Indeed.

“I should have zapped Red Star’s first comment”

Indeed x 10

Anyway, those whose neural networks are shorted by the very thought of interracial couplings better get used to it: http://ow.ly/2wxr4

August 30, 2010 @ 12:23 pm | Comment

Thanks Stuart. Sometimes these threads take on a life of their own.

August 30, 2010 @ 12:41 pm | Comment

Make no mistake Richard as a long time reader of the blog, I knew you weren’t saying healthy relationships don’t exist. Unfortunately without pointing it out clearly it opens the door for jackasses like HX and Merp to jump in and tag on ugly/racist and discussion-defeating comments, thus actually changing the tone of your original post. That first comment is absolutely disgusting…and I’m not that easily offended. Truly shameful and unworthy of this fine blog.

August 30, 2010 @ 12:55 pm | Comment

Andy, I agree with you and apologize for not catching it earlier. It’s gone. Hong Xing has now proven he is pure filth.

August 30, 2010 @ 12:57 pm | Comment

My friend Kevin Fitzpatrick has a blog on the Male/Female stuff out here.

Yellow Fever, Foreign Moons
http://yffm.wordpress.com/

August 30, 2010 @ 7:19 pm | Comment

This reminds me of a German class where one of the 20 vocabulary words was verführen, or seduce. No one made a mistake on verführen. When in doubt, write about sex.

August 30, 2010 @ 10:23 pm | Comment

Yes Bob, it works every time.

Michael that’s an interesting blog you linked to, and some of it is quite racy. First time I’ve seen a blog dedicated to yellow fever. It almost reminds me of a blog only the most senior among us will recall, The Gwailo Diaries, but yffm is infinitely more sophisticated.

August 30, 2010 @ 10:34 pm | Comment

There is nothing racist about my post. Whites are employing racism to get what they want (in this case, “Asian women”). If Chinese men were poaching African and or Tibetan women by the millions you’d all be screaming “genocide”. Racism and hypocrisy.

August 31, 2010 @ 5:29 am | Comment

AndyR
Half of all marriages end in divorce in the USA and Britain anyway and in China the percentage is skyrocketing as well, whether inter-ethnic or not.

You are dreaming if you think Chinese divorce rates will ever reach US/British divorce rates. Even Americanized Chinese do not divorce nearly as much as Westerners.

Maybe it’s not entirely about race- but I wouldn’t not doubt a good majority of “inter-ethnic” relationships in China are about disparities in power and money (including a facet of white Western racial propaganda against “Asians”), not true love. No one said there aren’t exceptions.

August 31, 2010 @ 5:33 am | Comment

would not doubt*

August 31, 2010 @ 5:33 am | Comment

Most Chinese women simply are not interested in foreigners- however the ones that are gravitate towards them, of course.

Perish the thought that Chinese women might be open-minded enough to want to go out with foreigners because they get on well together. ;)

Possibly the chief reason that foreign men may have an easier time dating in China than Chinese men is that they’re more likely to ask women out if they like them. A repeated comment from Chinese girls I’ve heard is how local guys will pass on the opportunity to ask them out for months even though they (the guys) do like them (the girls). So when someone does come up to them they’re more responsive. Men from the US, Europe and other countries will take that step faster than a lot of Chinese guys.

There are lots of reasons women go for men. Looks, age, education, wealth, etc. But they normally liked to be asked out first. Unless Brad Pitt, Jet Li or someone else falls on their laps they’ll usually expect the man to make a move first. And if the only men asking them out are Caucasian they probably won’t discriminate on that characteristic alone.

August 31, 2010 @ 6:21 am | Comment

By the way, the cartoon is great. I think it suggests something about how people’s looks are perceived. In your own country, popular culture will decide for you whether you are “good looking” or not. There’s not a lot you can do to change that – the “inner beauty” thing is partly wishful-thinking my view. Society will allow people to designate themselves or others as having inner beauty, but it won’t help them get more dates. But if you move far enough away popular culture can get scrambled up so the usual rules don’t apply.

In some cases the rule can even be reversed. Take Chinese women. Most strive for light-coloured skin, so those with darker skin are looked down on. But in Europe the preference is reversed – girls want to look tanned rather than pale.

August 31, 2010 @ 6:31 am | Comment

Perish the thought that Chinese women might be open-minded enough to want to go out with foreigners because they get on well together.

“Open-minded” is one way to put it. Being brainwashed into thinking abnormally highly of foreigners is not open mindedness. Most women period are not interested in dating men from “outside” groups as has been shown in survey after survey and study after study.

August 31, 2010 @ 8:11 am | Comment

A story at least as old as Madame Butterfly or Lord Jim – western man, eastern girl, with the outcome being an unhappy one. For myself, whilst most of my friends who I knew back when I arrived in China are now happily married to local women, the fact that I am not can only be attributed to my own laziness and eternal conviction that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Here’s one topic I haven’t seen yet though – the number of foreigners, closeted in their home countries, who come to China to come out.

August 31, 2010 @ 8:18 am | Comment

Gold diggers, eh? Have to tell Mrs G that :-D Mind you, we are both immigrants, so guess the normal rules don’t apply…

August 31, 2010 @ 8:28 am | Comment

As a semi-geek, I would also say that I think it’s sad that in the US “geek” can be a put-down word, and that the first panel of the posted comic could be just as much a commentary on the guy as on the women who are putting down that guy. In China being a 宅男 or 张江男 carries a lot less negative stigma than in the US/Canada and I’m pretty sure that’s a good thing. Different countries, different (better?) standards for judging men; can you argue with that? Are we ready to support the wholesale export of the “macho man” image to the rest of the world?

August 31, 2010 @ 9:24 am | Comment

Personally I never use “geek” to describe anyone. Too derogatory and American for my taste. “Boffin” on the other hand….

August 31, 2010 @ 10:57 am | Comment

I loved one of the comments on the blog Michael linked to:

“if you don’t like animals I reckon that you probably don’t like 撒嬌。”

Micah: I agree. One thing I like about China is that obvious geeks (the young guys with large glasses and no hairstyle) don’t necessarily get bullied like they would in the West. It isn’t only jocks that get respect in school.

August 31, 2010 @ 11:13 am | Comment

At least three of my female friends date Chinese guys and one even exclusively (“why wouldn’t I?”). That said, one recently complained that she was exhausting her interesting in Chinese men, saying that however decent their personaliites were, they were all “incredibly selfish in bed”.

It’s almost inarguable that liberal sexual culture in Europe and the US has encouraged, if not forced, men to raise their game and be better, longer, more knowledgeable sexual partners. I think this sexual confidence is a lure to some Chinese women, as are beliefs (mostly true, despite howls of protest from some quarters) about different anatomical size.

That’s not why Chinese and ‘foreigners’ would always date. I don’t buy this shallow, nationalistic dismissal of Chinese laowai lovers as gold-digging. Different cultures offer an appeal some can’t get at home, and some women don’t appreciate the hassle Chinese guys can be.

By dating and hanging out with a foreign crowd, some can be themselves more easily, away from the judgment of their peers, and unconstrained by some of the straitjackets their culture imposes, much as expats often feel the same abroad.

One girl – by no means an exemplar of the culture at large – in my circle says she feels like a ‘banana’ who has little in common with her Chinese peers, male or female. Coming from England, I sometimes feel the same…

August 31, 2010 @ 12:58 pm | Comment

“Most women period are not interested in dating men from “outside” groups as has been shown in survey after survey and study after study.”

I’m reminded of a CCTV science and nature program a few years ago in which marine biologists were seeking a suitable mate for a captive female dolphin whose species is found off China’s eastern seaboard. They introduced our lovelorn flipper girl to several potential ‘suitors’ from waters around the world, none of whom seemed to be quite good enough and were consequently rejected (by the scientists, at least).

Enter (figuritively speaking) a male dolphin from the South China Sea. Well! How about that? Looks like a perfect couple. Two compatible dolphins who were sure to live happily ever after and make lots of beautiful, healthy babies. The marine biologists’ conclusion? No big mystery, they explained, “nature knows best”.

Their message – and el merpingtroid’s – was quite clear, if not very subtle (or appropriate).

August 31, 2010 @ 2:02 pm | Comment

Whites are employing racism to get what they want (in this case, “Asian women”).

Dear God! Merp, that has to be one of the most fucking stupid comments I’ve ever read. And why do you have “Asian women” in quotation marks?

If Chinese men were poaching African and or Tibetan women by the millions you’d all be screaming “genocide”.

Wow. Poaching! You’re playing with a pretty way-out stereotype there. It borders on racism. Snap!!

Look, I know you’re a fenqing twat, but do you really have to be a stupid, fenqing twat?

August 31, 2010 @ 2:07 pm | Comment

I met this Chinese woman who was a real predatory gold digger. We’ve been married 18 years now and she’s still digging. No gold yet!

August 31, 2010 @ 6:16 pm | Comment

Really? We’re doing this old chestnut again?

I just gotta say: to assume that all Asian women, Chinese women, or any women for that matter, are ‘brainwashed’ or ‘gold diggers’ is incredibly misogynistic not to mention racist. Just because a woman is Asian doesn’t mean she is stupid, and to assume or write otherwise on the sole basis that the woman (or women) in question comes from a certain group or looks a certain way is a particularly nasty form of racism, no matter who is writing or saying it.

In any case, it’s a seriously asinine and ignorant way to view the world.

Face it folks, people are different, even if they come from the same “group” however (ill)defined. No two Chinese people are alike just as no two foreigners are the same. In this crazy mixed up world we live in, anything is possible. People fall in love and get married for all kinds of reasons, some good and some bad, and it really doesn’t matter if the couple grew up on the same street or halfway around the world.

I know that some people have their own personal foibles and shortcomings to work out on this topic, but to do so by slapping around all Asian women for being dumb and unable to make intelligent decisions for themselves says more about the commenters, those who use such small-minded and offensive stereotypes, than it does about any person or couple (man, woman, Asian, non-Asian) I’ve ever met.

August 31, 2010 @ 8:38 pm | Comment

Being brainwashed into thinking abnormally highly of foreigners is not open mindedness.

I thought there was no brainwashing in China, and any such suggestion that it happens is China-bashing. :D

Most women period are not interested in dating men from “outside” groups as has been shown in survey after survey and study after study.

Such as…..?

August 31, 2010 @ 10:25 pm | Comment

Here’s one topic I haven’t seen yet though – the number of foreigners, closeted in their home countries, who come to China to come out.

Interesting thought.

August 31, 2010 @ 10:35 pm | Comment

Michael that’s an interesting blog you linked to, and some of it is quite racy. First time I’ve seen a blog dedicated to yellow fever. It almost reminds me of a blog only the most senior among us will recall, The Gwailo Diaries, but yffm is infinitely more sophisticated.

The blog owner is extremely intelligent and writes extremely well. And the topic is irresistible! I always tell people that if you are going to open a blog, only three topics will sell, sex, politics, and technology.

I wrote on it a while back, sort of in response to something I saw on YFFM:

http://michaelturton.blogspot.com/2010/05/western-male-fantasies-about-taiwanese.html

August 31, 2010 @ 10:39 pm | Comment

Micah
In China being a 宅男 or 张江男 carries a lot less negative stigma than in the US/Canada and I’m pretty sure that’s a good thing.

It’s not really just that Chinese people don’t stigmatize “geeks” or “nerds”, it’s just that Chinese people in general don’t ostracize and persecute people for idiotic things like nerdiness, whatever stupid religion you believe in. They might not be as hypersensitive as Americans about things like weight but they will not be throwing baked goods at larger girls walking down the street either as I have witnessed in America.

Dashwood
That said, one recently complained that she was exhausting her interesting in Chinese men, saying that however decent their personaliites were, they were all “incredibly selfish in bed”.

I don’t know.. it’s really a certain kind of Chinese guy that looks exclusively for foreign women, and the same holds for the opposite (Chinese who prowl for foreign men). This would be like comparing the average Japanese woman to some Roppongi tramp; the dating pool is probably a bit skewed.

I think this sexual confidence is a lure to some Chinese women, as are beliefs (mostly true, despite howls of protest from some quarters) about different anatomical size.

This is typical white racist arrogance. No, there is no difference in “anatomical size”. It has been proven over and over and over that there is not one- no difference in serum testosterone levels, no difference in “girth”, no difference in “length”. There is a difference however in variability and standard deviation since you are so obsessed with telling lies about Chinese men. That doesn’t mean much though, considering the larger end of the bell curve for Westerners are concentrated among bisexual and gay men.

Nice try.

I don’t buy this shallow, nationalistic dismissal of Chinese laowai lovers as gold-digging.

It’s because you’re lying to yourself, just as you are lying to yourself about “different anatomical size”- despite all the facts available to anyone with an internet connection.

Different cultures offer an appeal some can’t get at home, and some women don’t appreciate the hassle Chinese guys can be.

Crypto-white supremacist way of saying “face it, we’re superior!”. What did I say about arrogance again? I guess the high white male divorce rate has to do with no woman wanting to put up with limp dicks after age 25?

Stuart:

There’s nothing unscientific about that study. Dolphins will often rape and kill members of other species. You are projecting your ideals on animals; no different from any other ideologically driven observer.

Twiseted_Colour
Dear God! Merp, that has to be one of the most fucking stupid comments I’ve ever read. And why do you have “Asian women” in quotation marks?

Because Asian isn’t a group of people, it’s an arbitrary geographical grouping- this fact has generally been ignored by Western MSM however.

Wow. Poaching! You’re playing with a pretty way-out stereotype there. It borders on racism. Snap!!

If it is a stereotype, it’s a well-deserved one.

Jeremiah
I just gotta say: to assume that all Asian women, Chinese women, or any women for that matter, are ‘brainwashed’ or ‘gold diggers’ is incredibly misogynistic not to mention racist.

No one said all “Asian” or Chinese women are brainwashed or gold diggers. However, the few that are tend to gravitate towards foreign men.

Raj
Most women period are not interested in dating men from “outside” groups as has been shown in survey after survey and study after study.

Here are a few:
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/
http://paa2008.princeton.edu/download.aspx?submissionId=80046
http://www.slate.com/id/2177637/nav/tap3/

Women tend to date men with status and power of the race they are familiar with, and men tend to go for looks and youth.

Anyways, all I see here are a bunch of white men gnashing their teeth about me being “racist” when in fact it’s them upholding what they’d say (if they actually followed their principles) a racist status quo, and using political correctness as a shield to cover their asses.

When it comes down to it I’m just being realistic.

September 1, 2010 @ 5:47 am | Comment

spam filter?

September 1, 2010 @ 6:15 am | Comment

And Dashwood, if all women really were stupid enough to believe your lies (and the Western media’s lies) about “different anatomical size they’d all be dating blacks. But as we all know, that much is also a myth.

Dashwood is the kind of sneering, smarmy white male expat that makes incidents such as the stabbings of laowai kids at Jeremiah’s school plausible. Whites love to scream racism but have nothing to say when a bigot of their ilk spews unfounded lies and garbage as if its the truth.

September 1, 2010 @ 6:25 am | Comment

Here are a few

Riiight, a blog on a dating website that shows women are interested in dating men from other ethnic groups, depending on what those groups are.

A draft document that the authors ask people NOT to cite without permission.

And an article that only says most women PREFER men from their own groups. It does not say they are not interested.

A rather pathetic collection of material that doesn’t actually help your position.

When it comes down to it I’m just being realistic.

No, you’re factually wrong – according to the information you yourself provided.

September 1, 2010 @ 7:05 am | Comment

To say that somebody deserves to be physically attacked or racially harassed because the victim was “swaggering” sounds very much like the pathetic excuses white southerners used for lynching African-Americans because they were believed to be ‘strutting.’

Be mindful of your rhetorical antecedents, young padawan, for they will betray you. Such statements are clearly racist.

September 1, 2010 @ 7:35 am | Comment

“However, the few that are tend to gravitate [sic] towards foreign men.”

Except you’re not saying that about Americans who marry Americans or Brits who marry Canadians, lots of people marry ‘foreigners’ (mostly other foreigners).

You are saying Asian women who marry/gravitate toward foreign men are gold diggers or are stupid. Now, ‘married to foreigners/not married to Chinese’ is a pretty huge set, The only thing these women in this subset have in common — other than that they married foreigners — is their race. Ergo, you are making assumptions about this group of women based on their belonging to a specific group or who share certain physical characteristics.

An American who marries another American isn’t automatically assumed to be a gold digger but an Asian woman who marries an American, according to your twisted logic, is.

That’s racism and it’s wrong.

September 1, 2010 @ 7:42 am | Comment

Not to mention, once again, that much of the rhetoric on this thread, particularly that of Merp, is highly misogynist and sexist.

Surely, you can make your point with out slapping around Asian women, right?

September 1, 2010 @ 7:43 am | Comment

Oh dear – too funny :-D Can anyone else get as many stereotypes in one post as Merp? S’up, Merp? Are you that haunted by sexual inadequacies and self loathing? Anyway, keep it up (no pun intended) – you are a most amusing read :-D

I have found out, mind, that Chinese women are…….just the same as (insert “race” of choice here) women…very hard for any (insert…etc) man to understand ;-) That’s why beer was invented :-D

Seriously, I was under the impression gold diggers were after…..gold. I don’t think Ma Nou minds what race her bloke is, as long as he’s got the BMW and the house…
http://life.globaltimes.cn/entertainment/2010-06/540006.html
“She attracted public attention after she made remarks on the show that glamorized money and wealth while she shunned poor people.
“I would rather cry in a BMW than ride a bicycle while laughing,” she said after an unemployed man invited her for a bicycle ride.”
No mention of white men there….

September 1, 2010 @ 8:14 am | Comment

This article might shed some light on this matter…
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/games/japan-resort-draws-men-with-virtual-girlfriends-20100901-14h8w.html

September 1, 2010 @ 8:34 am | Comment

Jeremiah
To say that somebody deserves to be physically attacked or racially harassed because the victim was “swaggering” sounds very much like the pathetic excuses white southerners used for lynching African-Americans because they were believed to be ’strutting.’

You have just given me written confirmation that whites in China today equate their special treatment to the brutal lynchings and massacres of a black minority which was formerly enslaved in their colony. Thank you for the insight.

Except you’re not saying that about Americans who marry Americans or Brits who marry Canadians, lots of people marry ‘foreigners’ (mostly other foreigners).

You’re being willfully ignorant. Americans and Canadians are the same race. Americans did not carpet bomb, dump chemicals on, nuke, or colonize Canada. Americans and Canadians have similar incomes, cultures, political systems.

Not even close.

You are saying Asian women who marry/gravitate toward foreign men are gold diggers or are stupid.

Not necessarily stupid, but not as intelligent, talented or dignified as the average “Asian” woman who doesn’t need to date invaders and colonizers for money/status.

Ergo, you are making assumptions about this group of women based on their belonging to a specific group

Yes, racist gold diggers who hate their own race. Note how I said “gravitate”- this doesn’t include the millions of “Asian” women who are harassed on a daily basis by white men and just finally give up and marry one. There is a distinction between women who worship and obsess over foreigners and the relative minority who just so happen to find some tolerable foreign guy by accident.

Not to mention, once again, that much of the rhetoric on this thread, particularly that of Merp, is highly misogynist and sexist.

You are talking in circles trying to justify 1) systematic racism 2) misogynist dehumanizing of “Asian” women as sex objects 3) colonial self-hatred

While simultaneously 1) diminishing the suffering of African Americans in the south 2) making your poor, poor trust fund white boys who got roughed up a little sound like victims.

Maybe if they spent less time licking the silver spoon, they wouldn’t complain so much about the tiniest amount of conflict.

just the same as (insert “race” of choice here) women…very hard for any (insert…etc) man to understand ;-) That’s why beer was invented

No, they’re not. Women are not all the same, sorry to break it to you. And they are not hard to understand, unless you are a Neanderthal.

This article might shed some light on this matter…

What does Japan have to do with this? Most Japanese women don’t date foreigners either, except for Roppongi tramps.

September 1, 2010 @ 8:48 am | Comment

“No, they’re not. Women are not all the same, sorry to break it to you. And they are not hard to understand, unless you are a Neanderthal.”
You ARE single! I knew it!

September 1, 2010 @ 8:53 am | Comment

Because Asian isn’t a group of people, it’s an arbitrary geographical grouping- this fact has generally been ignored by Western MSM however.

You didn’t explain the quotation marks, snapperhead, you just explianed what Asia is. And, no. the Western MSM hasn’t ignored the fact that Asia is considered a continent made up of various states and even more ethnic groups, anyone who would think otherwise is a fucking lunatic. Maybe you should spend some time watching and reading the Western media (avoid Fox, the biliousness would be too attractive to you).

If it is a stereotype, it’s a well-deserved one.

Again with the racism. What’s wrong, Merp? Why are you so upset that some Asian women want to persue relationships with men not from their own ethnic group? Why are you so frustrated? Did the cute blonde girl tell you to stop creeping her out? Can’t you get laid in America?

September 1, 2010 @ 8:56 am | Comment

Raj, try to read your own posts:

Me: Most women period are not interested in dating men from “outside” groups as has been shown in survey after survey and study after study.

Raj: Such as…..?

Agree or disagree: 60%+ = most? Or is this another British thing where you have some goofy make believe word like “loo” or “chips” in place of real ones?

Riiight, a blog on a dating website that shows women are interested in dating men from other ethnic groups, depending on what those groups are.

If you actually read it, it WAS the “dating websites” blog, not a blog on a dating website. They compiled millions of responses. Note that most of the respondents are young, middle class, and educated. It’s a cross-section of the largely more conservative general populace. Furthermore the point was the poll near the middle which showed a almost half of these more educated, wealthy, etc women strongly prefer their own race- and 54% of white women do. So I guess white women are racist?

A draft document that the authors ask people NOT to cite without permission.

It’s not being cited academically. Cop out failed.

And an article that only says most women PREFER men from their own groups. It does not say they are not interested.

See above.

September 1, 2010 @ 9:08 am | Comment

“What does Japan have to do with this?”

Ummm, have you read the material above? Here, let me help you….(don’t they say something about there being a link between blindness and onanism?)

“On his home planet of Canada our hero was just another average guy…..but when he landed on Planet Japan…”

September 1, 2010 @ 9:09 am | Comment

Twisted_Colour
You didn’t explain the quotation marks, snapperhead, you just explianed what Asia is. And, no. the Western MSM hasn’t ignored the fact that Asia is considered a continent made up of various states and even more ethnic groups, anyone who would think otherwise is a fucking lunatic. Maybe you should spend some time watching and reading the Western media (avoid Fox, the biliousness would be too attractive to you).

Because it was used in the context of being a race, smart guy. It most certainly is not one. And yes, the Western MSM does indeed ignore the fact that Asia is a diverse, bandying around such loathsome idiot phrases such as “Asian culture” and even, at times, creating a box for “Asians” to check under “race”.

Again with the racism. What’s wrong, Merp? Why are you so upset that some Asian women want to persue relationships with men not from their own ethnic group? Why are you so frustrated? Did the cute blonde girl tell you to stop creeping her out? Can’t you get laid in America?

Again with the ignorant defense of the status quo. What’s wrong, TC? Are you upset that Western men won’t have access to child sex slaves in Thailand much longer? No more lucrative molestation racket under the guise of ESL? What makes you assume I am even interested in women in the first place? Or that I’m even a man? Or that I would want to date a white woman assuming you were right?

Sounds like a white man with a chip on his shoulder against “Asian” men.

September 1, 2010 @ 9:16 am | Comment

Damn! I’m out of popcorn.

Merp in meltdown this morning:

“It has been proven over and over and over that there is … no difference in “girth”, no difference in “length”. There is a difference however in variability and standard deviation since you are so obsessed with telling lies about Chinese men.”

Oops! Think we touched a nerve there, old sport. I am supremely indiffferent to such triviality in the context of this discussion, but I do know that Durex (condom makers) produce different sizes for all their product lines for African, US + European, and Asian markets. I’ll leave it you to determine which continent gets more/less latex for their buck.

“Not necessarily stupid, but not as intelligent, talented or dignified as the average “Asian” woman who doesn’t need to date invaders and colonizers for money/status.”

So much bitterness! Earlier you also called such Chinese women ‘the dregs’. In which case aren’t foreigners aiding the cause of strengthening the genetic material of all-Chinese offspring? You really should be more grateful.

September 1, 2010 @ 10:08 am | Comment

it’s an arbitrary geographical grouping

Read your own comment. Although the grouping isn’t exactly arbitrary.

Again with the ignorant defense of the status quo.

Non sequitur.

Are you upset that Western men won’t have access to child sex slaves in Thailand much longer? No more lucrative molestation racket under the guise of ESL?

I have no great interest in Thailand, I never have. If changing the rules of teaching in Thailand (I guess that’s what you’re getting at. I don’t know if they are and I can’t be bothered googling it) helps prevent child molestation then more power to them. But I very much doubt that the child sex trade in Thailand, or anywhere else, is going to stop, there’s too much money in it for too many people. It’s probably also worth pointing out, given that you’re as dumb as a bag of lemur shit, that paedophila is not determined by race.

Sounds like a white man with a chip on his shoulder against “Asian” men.

I have nothing against Asian men (notice how the quotation marks aren’t needed?) I do have something against racist fuckwits like you.

I am an arsehole, Merp. A big, fat, white arsehole with a chip on his shoulder. I have no qualms about admitting that. I don’t put my arseholery on decent people, I save it for shitbags like you. Racist little turds, angry dickheads who try to hide their insecurity behind a transparent veil of superiority, pathetic scumbags who don’t have the honesty, who don’t have the balls, to admit what their real motivations are. I’m your opposite, Merp. So, next time you look in the mirror remember that out there there’s a big, fat, bald, tattooed arsehole with a boxer’s nose and a missing tooth who’s a far better person than you.

Have a nice day.

September 1, 2010 @ 10:36 am | Comment

Yawn

September 1, 2010 @ 10:59 am | Comment

“their product lines for African, US + European, and Asian markets. I’ll leave it you to determine which continent gets more/less latex for their buck.”

Yes because “Asia” is just one big genetic group… right? They are basing their sizes off of nothing, if so.

Studies have even shown that the average white American is even slightly smaller, on average, than the average Japanese. Now that’s funny.

September 1, 2010 @ 11:01 am | Comment

African, US + European, and Asian

Yes because “Asia” is just one big genetic group… right?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – Dumb as a bag of lemur shit.

Studies have even shown that the average white American is even slightly smaller, on average, than the average Japanese.

Good thing I’m Australian then. By the by, I decided to research your “fact” (note the appropriate use of the marks) and I have comfirmed what I already knew. Bag of lemur shit.

Oh, and the Andro-Penis® is going for $199.95. Heh, Lemur shit.

September 1, 2010 @ 11:26 am | Comment

A study published in the September 1996 Journal of Urology concluded that average erect length was 12.9 cm (5.08 in) (measured by staff).

Not surprised they have to make up lies about “Asians”

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – Dumb as a bag of lemur shit.

You are indeed- but case in point, issuing a single condom size for 4 billion people is pure idiocy.

September 1, 2010 @ 11:56 am | Comment

I think things are over-heating a bit. Can we tone down the rhetoric please?

September 1, 2010 @ 12:01 pm | Comment

stuart
So much bitterness! Earlier you also called such Chinese women ‘the dregs’. In which case aren’t foreigners aiding the cause of strengthening the genetic material of all-Chinese offspring? You really should be more grateful.

You said it, not me. However there is still the issue of finding brides for the men they left behind.

September 1, 2010 @ 12:09 pm | Comment

“Americans and Canadians are the same race.” (Merp #54)
—of all of Merp’s stupid comments over all these threads, this one, if it doesn’t win the prize for “Merp’s dumbest comment”, should easily be a finalist for same.

Someone might need to ask Merp to define “race” before this goes any further, based on the aforementioned gem.

So a Chinese woman who marries a Caucasian man is a gold digger. I wonder what characterization he might use for his wife, assuming he has one (or husband, or life partner…same idea).

September 1, 2010 @ 12:11 pm | Comment

Not surprised they have to make up lies about “Asians”

Who? All the Westerners who travel to Asia to poach the wimminfolk? You’re just babbling crap.

Case in point “but case in point, issuing a single condom size for 4 billion people is pure idiocy.”

Where did that come from? Your big bag of non sequiturs? Fair point that it’s idiocy to make only one size of condom, but I’m curious about who you imagine proposed this. You’re like a drunk stumblng down the street grasping at anything to stay erect (no pun intended).

September 1, 2010 @ 12:19 pm | Comment

On a more serious note…

There now exists a significant discrepancy between the number of adult men and adult women in China, possibly owing to the years of “one-child” policy and the tendency for families to favour male offspring. There are stories of adult Chinese males who have significant difficulty in finding a mate (and thus, at least in a very traditional sense, starting a family). I wonder if there are statistics that document the prevalence of Chinese woman/expat man couples. My guess is that it would be a small percentage. But any degree of such prevalence would only further exacerbate the problem for Chinese men (at least for those looking to marry a Chinese woman).

September 1, 2010 @ 12:21 pm | Comment

I’ve had my fun, Richard. Now I’m off to visit the cemetary before they’re all closed down and sold off to property developers.

September 1, 2010 @ 12:21 pm | Comment

Thanks for the laugh, Mr. Color. This thread needed an injection of humor.

September 1, 2010 @ 12:23 pm | Comment

SK Cheung
Someone might need to ask Merp to define “race” before this goes any further, based on the aforementioned

You know what he meant. That aside it’s debatable how much non-whites in America are actual citizens regardless of what their papers said- 2nd class and third class citizenship isn’t much.

Average black household has 1/20th the net worth of avg. white.

There now exists a significant discrepancy between the number of adult men and adult women in China, possibly owing to the years of “one-child” policy and the tendency for families to favour male offspring.

One thing working in China’s favor, at least, is that Chinese men are highly monogamous (as far as men go) so there are fewer instances of one guy with 2, 3, or 4 women. Or at least they say they are in anonymous surveys- don’t know why they’d lie any more than Westerners given that they don’t have the whole Christian stigma attached to cheating.

My guess is that it would be a small percentage. But any degree of such prevalence would only further exacerbate the problem for Chinese men (at least for those looking to marry a Chinese woman).

It is a very small percentage.

Twisted_Colour
but I’m curious about who you imagine proposed this.

Your friend stuart

September 1, 2010 @ 12:32 pm | Comment

However there is still the issue of finding brides for the men they left behind.

Hence your move to the US. Lock up your daughters!

September 1, 2010 @ 1:10 pm | Comment

“that Chinese men are highly monogamous”
—oh please. Maybe the ones who don’t have the opportunity to be otherwise.

September 1, 2010 @ 1:32 pm | Comment

Merp,

Once again you got called out and have no substantive response. How many times now is that? I’m beginning to realize you’re just not that bright.

1) Rhetoric does not equal reality. When we look at or suggest rhetorical antecedents, there is no statement of equivalency. You need to read a book about rhetoric, or at least check a good dictionary. You made a rhetorical error and you seem unable to bluff your way out of it. Imagine my shock.

2) Americans and Canadians are not all the same race. What a shame for you in your haste to post an ill-advised rebuttal for you to make such a simple mistake.

3) I think I’ve cited sufficient examples, and even more exist for those who choose to wallow through the thread above, to have proven your racism and sexism. You are merely supposing mine based on no direct evidence. Quite a difference which which leads me to…

4) You’ve been doing (a little) bit of reading lately Merp…what kind of logical fallacy is “Oh, yeah I say you’re a racist too!” Think a bit…we’ve been over this before…it’ll come to you…or does someone in the rest of the class want to help out the slow student?

5) I don’t know how average Yajun is, we met when were both students at PKU, where she graduated with honors and a Party membership, and then we dated while she attended a full-ride scholarship at the University of Bordeaux Law School (oh yeah, she had to learn French in 18 months for that one) and is now writing for one of the leading progressive papers in the US (Richard has linked to some of her articles if you go back a bit through the archives). She’s also kinda hot (and once again, Richard can back me up on this one). She married a historian, real gold to be had there, and we have a wonderful marriage (3 years next week) and it’s all good. And here’s the thing, most people who read this know this because I use my real name and it’s verifiable. I guess what I’m trying to say is: If you’re going to call somebody’s wife a whore, you might want to do it to their face or at least sign your real name…though I very much doubt you have the physical or moral courage to do so.

5) Oh yeah…and the students who were roughed up: One was the son of Cuban immigrants who grew up in a rough part of Miami, the other grew up on a farm. Once again, your assumptions make you look like…wait for it…an ass.

You are a very tiresome little man. Oh yeah, and you stole the “yawn” line from me. Can’t even write your own jokes.

September 1, 2010 @ 2:00 pm | Comment

About the monogamy, I think this another instance of Merp not having any actual contact with China…whether Chinese men are more monogamous than American men or British men or any other group is certainly a good question (and a difficult one to answer for obvious methodological reasons) but having lived here for awhile, I will say that men in urban areas of China are more open and public about their infidelity than is the case in the US. Though, like many social phenomena, there appears to be a generation divide, with older men (45+) seemingly more prone to “bring your ‘ernai’ to dinner night” at the local Sichuan restaurant (and more likely to brag about their mistresses to the uninterested foreigner sitting one table over) than would appear to be the case with the younger generation.

September 1, 2010 @ 2:08 pm | Comment

Hi merp!

Agree or disagree: 60%+ = most? Or is this another British thing where you have some goofy make believe word like “loo” or “chips” in place of real ones?

Oooh, handbags! I see I’ve touched a raw nerve. It’s not like anyone else comes up with alternative words for toilet, is it? :D As for chips, if you want to provide evidence of what words came first in the English language, feel free – though I’m not sure what relevance it has to this discussion….

Back on topic, it has nothing to do with percentages, it’s that you’re taking prefer to mean “only interested in”. I prefer some types of beer, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want to try any others.

If you actually read it, it WAS the “dating websites” blog, not a blog on a dating website.

So? It still doesn’t support your theory that most women ONLY want to date men from their own racial group.

It’s not being cited academically.

It’s still a draft document, which means they don’t want people to rely on it. Whether it is being cited academically or not is irrelevant.

September 1, 2010 @ 3:40 pm | Comment

Study after study, women prefer tall and strong men. Both of those attribute are rare among Chinese men. Case closed.

September 1, 2010 @ 6:18 pm | Comment

Whoa! 79 posts already. It seems blogs can also fee affected by the yellow fever…

September 1, 2010 @ 9:36 pm | Comment

Yo, is everyone wasting his/her time arguing with “Merp” when there’s all these hot Asian chicks running around?! Sweet Jeebus, people… get your priorities straight. :)

September 2, 2010 @ 6:13 am | Comment

SK Cheung
oh please. Maybe the ones who don’t have the opportunity to be otherwise.

Stop hanging around scumbags

Jeremiah
I think I’ve cited sufficient examples, and even more exist for those who choose to wallow through the thread above, to have proven your racism and sexism.

No you.

what kind of logical fallacy is “Oh, yeah I say you’re a racist too!”

Oh I wasn’t aware you had an argument (what is it anyway, you’re racist because you call gold diggers gold diggers?), I thought we were just tossing blind accusations into the air.

She’s also kinda hot (and once again, Richard can back me up on this one).

Everyone’s wife is kinda hot.

If you’re going to call somebody’s wife a whore, you might want to do it to their face or at least sign your real name…though I very much doubt you have the physical or moral courage to do so.

Oh hi Jeremiah, my name is John, or Bob, or Joe. Maybe you can find me on facebook.

your assumptions make you look like…wait for it…an ass.

Take your own advice.

whether Chinese men are more monogamous than American men or British men or any other group is certainly a good question (and a difficult one to answer for obvious methodological reasons)

No it’s not, unless you assume Chinese men lie more than Americans and British men on surveys. The opposite is generally true, however.

I will say that men in urban areas of China are more open and public about their infidelity than is the case in the US.

They are more open and public when they do cheat. In America they do it behind their wives backs.

Raj
Oooh, handbags! I see I’ve touched a raw nerve.

You may have touched a lot of things, and a lot of people, but my nerves have never been among them. The jab at your ridiculous language was a joke ;) But it certainly got you worked up.

Back on topic, it has nothing to do with percentages, it’s that you’re taking prefer to mean “only interested in”. I prefer some types of beer, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want to try any others.

You have to understand that the women in question are much younger, more educated, “open-minded”, than the general person. That and they are pressured to give the politically correct answer. The reason behind this is nothing more than the fact that generally speaking, if you ask 100 women who they prefer to date a majority will say men they are familiar with. Usually this is men of the same race.

So? It still doesn’t support your theory that most women ONLY want to date men from their own racial group.

It supports what I said and you contested. That survey after survey shows women are more or less only interested in their own race.

fobtacular
Study after study, women prefer tall and strong men. Both of those attribute are rare among Chinese men. Case closed.

Whites are not strong, mentally or physically. They are barely taller than Northern/Northeastern Chinese either. And when they are tall, they are often lanky and goofy looking.

Whites are also more prone to disease than Chinese people, more likely to have erectile dysfunction and hair loss, have more genetic defects and mental disorders, lower IQs, are more prone to cancer, are more likely to get a divorce, to abandon their children, to commit crime, to lie, cheat and steal. All of these are scientific fact.

Study after study, women prefer intelligent, strong, genetically fit and reliable men. All of these attributes are rare among white men. Case closed.

September 2, 2010 @ 6:15 am | Comment

Here’s one survey of partners per person:

http://www.swivel.com/workbooks/20651-Poll-Number-of-Sexual-Partners

Then take into account China’s very slow spread of all STDs (remember how Ivan and Ned and Nanhe were saying China would have tens of millions of AIDS cases by 2010?), similar numbers in Hong Kong and among Overseas Chinese, and you have a pretty complete picture. Chinese people simply aren’t prone to cheat or sleep around.

September 2, 2010 @ 6:21 am | Comment

Merp,

You’re a sad little man who hasn’t proven anything and you still haven’t accounted for your cowardly attacks on women, both those we know and those we don’t.

You are sexist and misogynist, and your last screed is an example of how you can’t sustain an argument.

It is a common tactic among insecure men around the world that when they feel threatened to slap women, either physically or rhetorically. It is sad to see you in that club.

And you confirmed for me, and for everybody on this board, forever, just what a sniveling little coward you are by not stepping up and backing your insults.

I suppose I can forgive you being stupid and uneducated, but cowardice is beyond the pale.

Finally, when you call somebody a gold digger BECAUSE their subset of a larger set is based on race…that is racist. Sorry, no amount of lunatic ranting can bail you out of this one.

September 2, 2010 @ 6:42 am | Comment

“Oh I wasn’t aware you had an argument”

Given your inability to present a coherent argument, you will just have to imagine my surprise at your inability to recognize one. Time for you to turn off Wikipedia and read some actual books.

September 2, 2010 @ 6:43 am | Comment

merp

You may have touched a lot of things, and a lot of people, but my nerves have never been among them. The jab at your ridiculous language was a joke

Yes, yes, of course it was a joke, as further evidenced by your reference to my “ridiculous” language – which we’re speaking right now. :D

You have to understand that the women in question are much younger, more educated, “open-minded”, than the general person.

You used these links to supposedly back up your position. Now you’re saying that they’re not accurate because they’re biased – based on your personal opinion. What you seem to be saying is that I have to believe you because you think that you’re right.

I find it laughable that not only do you expect me (and others) to accept the selective sources that you’ve collected as indicating the whole truth and then mirepresent what they say, but you also criticise them as not actually being reflective of the truth. It’s one of the most surreal conversations I’ve had in a while, but then that’s your speciality – thanks!

As I keep saying, all you’ve done is raise the issue of people/women having an initial preference. It does nothing to advance your earlier position that Chinese women only go with foreign men if they’ve been “brainwashed” or are after money, etc. When they meet men in person, initial preferences can swiftly be challenged and overturned.

It supports what I said and you contested. That survey after survey shows women are more or less only interested in their own race.

Let me quote what you said earlier.

“Most women period are not interested in dating men from “outside” groups as has been shown in survey after survey and study after study.”

So we’ve moved from “not interested” to “more or less only interested” in a short space of time. How much more backpeddling are we going to see before this thread dies?

September 2, 2010 @ 6:56 am | Comment

You’re a sad little man who hasn’t proven anything and you still haven’t accounted for your cowardly attacks on women, both those we know and those we don’t.

I haven’t attacked women. Don’t insult all women by comparing them to gold diggers please, you need sensitivity training.

It is a common tactic among insecure men around the world that when they feel threatened to slap women, either physically or rhetorically. It is sad to see you in that club.

Rhetorical slapping of gold diggers? That sounds interesting.

And you confirmed for me, and for everybody on this board, forever, just what a sniveling little coward you are by not stepping up and backing your insults.

What insults?

Finally, when you call somebody a gold digger BECAUSE their subset of a larger set is based on race…that is racist. Sorry, no amount of lunatic ranting can bail you out of this one.

Now you are just going full-blown apeshit and spewing incoherent word vomit. I’m assuming you mean “when you call somebody (who?) a gold digger BECAUSE they’re a subset of a larger set based on race… that is racist”? Who ISN’T a subset of a larger set based on race?

Boohoo you disagree with me and hurt my feelings, you’re a RACIST and a MISOGYNIST and you SLAP WOMEN! No, I have never slapped a woman nor do I know any (Chinese) man who has slapped a woman. I’m not acquainted with any Chinese men who abuse women, or condone abusing women either.

Given your inability to present a coherent argument

Dry up your tears please.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:00 am | Comment

Jeremiah
Time for you to turn off Wikipedia and read some actual books.

Such as She Love Me Long Time: A White Man’s Memoirs of his Vacations In Thailand or Everyone Is a Real Man On the Internet: So Are You

Raj
Yes, yes, of course it was a joke, as further evidenced by your reference to my “ridiculous” language – which we’re speaking right now. :D

Don’t make me break out the English to Pirate translator.

You used these links to supposedly back up your position. Now you’re saying that they’re not accurate because they’re biased

No, I’m saying they err in the delusional multiculturalist’s favor.

When they meet men in person, initial preferences can swiftly be challenged and overturned.

Yeah… like when you’re expecting Brad Pitt and you get Chewbacca minus some brain cells and plus 50 pounds.

So we’ve moved from “not interested” to “more or less only interested” in a short space of time. How much more backpeddling are we going to see before this thread dies?

They are roughly equivalent. “Most are not interested” to “more or less only interested”- read. “More or less” is describing both the demographic and the preference.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:06 am | Comment

Ignoring the idiotic ravings of Merp for a moment, and trying to bring this discussion back to more civilized waters…

There have been several good studies, done mostly by scholars who study Asian-America, on how ideas and standards of masculinity have been produced and reproduced through a variety of global media — advertising, film, television — and that the standards most likely to be reproduced are those of the North Atlantic Anglophone countries (most notably the US) who have the most influence in terms of shaping trends in global (entertainment) media.

This cannot help but shape attitudes reflect in any survey of ‘desirability’ or ‘preference’ and it would seem natural for men from cultures with different ideas of “the masculine” to be resistant or even angry at these trends.

There’s also — as ever — the lingering stench of global imperialism whereby the conqueror was associated with “the male” and the subjugated with “the female.” Victorian literature is brimming with portrayals of the sexual other — either the temptress (she made me do it!) or the good girl who comes around (she wanted it all along!) — as a symbolic vessel for the fantasies of victor. The unfortunate corollary to this of course, is the desexualization of the vanquished male or, in a seemingly opposite sense but which still dehumanizes the colonized, the hypersexualized and depraved male — the Black stud, the Persian harem, the Chinese concubines — which were not only grist for the mill of Victorian pulp but which also reappear with shocking regularity in present-day media as well. For more on this, I highly recommend the work of Ann Stoler.

Interestingly, you also see elements of this in Chinese history as well. Emma T’eng’s excellent research on portrayals of the colonized other in 19th century Chinese literature and travel writing about Taiwan, as well as the way minority groups are (de)sexualized (depending on the gender of the person portrayed) in media presentations in the PRC today. And of course, Manchu self-identity as a conquest dynasty was heavily tied up in notions of the Masculine Manchu and the Effeminate Han. (See Pamela Crossley and others.)

September 2, 2010 @ 7:08 am | Comment

Merp,

I haven’t read those, but whatever floats your boat. I guess we have different tastes in bedtime reading. (See my post above)

September 2, 2010 @ 7:09 am | Comment

Merp,

You have insulted any woman who has ever married outside her race by calling them stupid and “gold diggers.”

That is a blanket insult, it is misogynist, it is sexist, and it is wrong. And you are a coward for doing so on the Internet rather than to a man’s face or, at the very least, signing your real name.

And just because YOU can’t understand an argument doesn’t make it “word vomit” or “apeshit.” It just you means you can only respond to a measured response regarding your own poorly constructed arguments with profane insults. Very third grade.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:14 am | Comment

Again, what makes you think I am looking for a woman? That said if you had cut out all the internet posturing and had just gotten down to that point, we could have avoided all that mess in the first place. I never said your wife was a gold digger, self-hater, or a status monger, just that a majority of “Asian” (and Latina, and possibly black) women with white men are.

I would say any Han woman voluntarily marrying a Manchu during the Qing would be worse than a gold digger, a whore. Any Han man voluntarily serving the Manchu against Han interests would also be a whore and a traitor.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:16 am | Comment

I never said all of them were gold diggers. Just most of them. Most, not all, not an overwhelming majority. You’ll have to forgive me for not clarifying, considering the West is on the offensive here no one has time to care about their feelings.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:17 am | Comment

“Just most of them” — so you are mostly misogynist and sexist, not all the way? Good to know.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:20 am | Comment

Good one, Jeremiah. And thanks for this earlier comment. Absolutely superb. Of course, the good stuff like that gets drowned out by the trolls.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:21 am | Comment

So if I raise an eyebrow at neo-Nazis I am a Germanophobe and hate Socialists? I don’t think so Jeremiah.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:24 am | Comment

and only a woman-hater would feel the need to constantly put up the faux chivarly posturing and treat all women with kid gloves no matter how unremarkable they are as human beings.

yes, most of them- most of the whitey chasers are gold diggers. this is not just my opinion, maybe a study should be commissioned.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:26 am | Comment

and only a woman-hater would feel the need to constantly put up the faux chivarly posturing and treat all women with kid gloves no matter how unremarkable they are as human beings.

So people who are polite to women are “woman-haters”? Chivalry is a form of woman hatred? So what should a man do in the presence of a woman who is, as you say, “unremarkable,” spit on her? I’m old fashioned, but I prefer being polite.

merp, you’re a closed-minded bigot and, with all due respect, an idiot.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:32 am | Comment

Now you’re just not making any sense. But then again…did you ever?

Personally I think all people — men and women — are remarkable, but hey that’s just my opinion.

But, that said, I think your continued use of terms like “Whitey chaser” and “gold digger” is sufficient to prove my point. Game. Set. Match.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:34 am | Comment

You mean people who talk in circles trying to rationalize the behavior of a tiny minority of women, who happen to be gold diggers, and make all sorts of assumptions about people who do not?

Chivalry a form of woman hatred? No, who said that? Faux chivalric posturing, because you need to protect those poor frail princesses from those awful online bullies? That’s admitting you think they’re inferior.

What should a man do in the presence of a gold digger or other morally bankrupt woman? I don’t know, he might just marry her in rare cases.

merp, you’re a closed-minded bigot

Don’t put words in my mouth. I’m the least racist person here.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:35 am | Comment

(And yes, I’m watching US Open highlights in my office as I get ready for class.)

September 2, 2010 @ 7:35 am | Comment

Personally I think all people — men and women — are remarkable, but hey that’s just my opinion.

It was a euphemism of course, a maggot riddled turd can also be remarkable.

But, that said, I think your continued use of terms like “Whitey chaser” and “gold digger” is sufficient to prove my point. Game. Set. Match.

Lets frame this in vocabulary more suitable to your intellectual-ness shall we? Women suffering from “colonial mentality” and “self-hatred” coupled with a desire for “monetary reward” for “services rendered”.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:38 am | Comment

Merp, you toss around phrases like whitey chaser and gold digger and liberally apply them to millions, and then you have the temerity to say, “I’m the least racist person here”? Oh boy.

How do you define “faux chivalric posturing”? Do you mean holding a door open? Letting a woman walk ahead of you through a doorway? Waiting for her to sit down before you do? How do you distinguish between “chivalric posturing” and being polite? You are just foaming at the mouth as usual, hopping from argument to argument. Like a game of whack-a-mole, you get pinned down here, you just jump over there and start afresh. You have no shame.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:40 am | Comment

Jeremiah, why subject yourself to this prior to teaching? It can only give you a headache.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:42 am | Comment

Merp, you toss around phrases like whitey chaser and gold digger and liberally apply them to millions, and then you have the temerity to say, “I’m the least racist person here”? Oh boy.

Millions? Yes, honestly it’s fair. Not really gold diggers alone, but as I mentioned women who hate themselves for various reasons. If you had any empathy for them, you would not condone their self-destructive behavior and mindset.

How do you define “faux chivalric posturing”? Do you mean holding a door open? Letting a woman walk ahead of you through a doorway?

Nice try. The difference between genuine concern and posturing are easy enough to differentiate- I hold the door open for everyone by the way. But I don’t puff up my chest when I do it for a woman.

You are just foaming at the mouth as usual, hopping from argument to argument. Like a game of whack-a-mole, you get pinned down here, you just jump over there and start afresh. You have no shame.

You wish. I’m the only one here keeping his cool and sticking with the argument. Others are the ones who can’t comprehend simple English, arguing with the straw men they created.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:45 am | Comment

Just finished my second bucket of popcorn. Great viewing.

“I never said all of them were gold diggers.”

But you did call Chinese girls with foreign partners the ‘dregs’, did you not? Nice.

September 2, 2010 @ 7:56 am | Comment

Learn how to read.

All of the best gold diggers seem to hook up with Overseas Chinese though, leaving only the dregs for aforementioned unbalanced middle-aged men.

I said the best gold diggers go for Overseas Chinese, and the dregs of these gold diggers are with “aforementioned unbalanced middle-aged men”.

Are you saying you’re an unbalanced middle-aged man?

September 2, 2010 @ 8:02 am | Comment

But compared to you calling all Chinese people Nazis, and cheering the deaths of Han everywhere, I would say I am indeed quite nice.

September 2, 2010 @ 8:03 am | Comment

Richard,

Of the many things I’m doing this morning, ‘arguing’ with Merp requires, by far, the least amount of RAM. It’s the academic equivalent of wrestling a field mouse.

September 2, 2010 @ 8:03 am | Comment

Because you simply can’t get a handle on it in the first place.

September 2, 2010 @ 8:07 am | Comment

But compared to you calling all Chinese people Nazis, and cheering the deaths of Han everywhere, I would say I am indeed quite nice.

You know people who call you a Nazi and would cheer your death?

Jeez! That’s awful. Seriously man, you gotta do something about your social circle.

September 2, 2010 @ 8:27 am | Comment

Please, no more! My sides are hurting with laughing so hard!

September 2, 2010 @ 8:43 am | Comment

Or maybe it’s a heart attack :P

September 2, 2010 @ 9:01 am | Comment

I must say, this topic really seems to get Merp’s goat. Whether the same man/woman dynamic is afflicting Merp in the US, and he is projecting his frustration back at Chinese women in China, who knows. But he does seem to be in an awful hurry to disparage women who supposedly are demeaning themselves by entering into relationships with non-Chinese men.

So if Merp is as racially enlightened as he would have us believe (though of course we all know that he is anything but), here’s a question: why/how does the race of the man and the race of the woman matter in the first place? Man meets woman or vice versa, they click, and they get together. Race should have little to do with it. After all, for the non-racists, you’re falling in love with the person, not the skin colour. In fact, to prejudge who is worthy of being a mate based on skin colour alone is as racist as any other racist act.

As for this gem (“Not really gold diggers alone, but as I mentioned women who hate themselves for various reasons. If you had any empathy for them, you would not condone their self-destructive behavior and mindset.”), I’d ask Merp what it would mean if a Chinese woman marries a Chinese man (presumably those women “love” themselves), but more importantly, the basis upon which he draws such divergent conclusions. Maybe Merp is a Chinese woman after all, and knows how Chinese women think (though as usual, even in feminine form, Merp would pretend to know the thoughts of many individuals other than him/her-self).

September 2, 2010 @ 1:38 pm | Comment

Will someone please just shoot merp?

September 2, 2010 @ 3:20 pm | Comment

Ok I admit it. Banning them would be a lot less amusing than the ass-kicking I’m reading above! Need to always hold out hope that their are at least 2 (relatively) sane people to every insane person in the world…

September 2, 2010 @ 3:26 pm | Comment

@AndyR

I disagree, the stuff they write is boring and takes the debate off the normal course.

September 2, 2010 @ 5:22 pm | Comment

SK Cheung
why/how does the race of the man and the race of the woman matter in the first place?

You may as well have asked “why does race matter in the first place” period. Because race matters, especially because of whites and their apologists such as you.

Man meets woman or vice versa, they click, and they get together.

Again, you watch too much Disney.

you’re falling in love with the person, not the skin colour

You’re implying race is just skin color, which it is not.

I’d ask Merp what it would mean if a Chinese woman marries a Chinese man (presumably those women “love” themselves)

Most likely it means she is somewhat well-adjusted as far as race and ethnicity goes.

Zictor
Will someone please just shoot merp?

Aww, poor white boy, did someone hurt your feelings?

September 3, 2010 @ 5:20 am | Comment

Aaaah, the good ol’ “Well, whiteys were racists before so it’s only right that Chinese should be racists” argument.

I’m guessing this is a picture of Merp…
http://blackfirewhitefire.blogspot.com/2010/08/picture-of-day.html

September 3, 2010 @ 6:48 am | Comment

Heavens to merpatroid! You just don’t know when to quit, do you? You are repeating the same arguments over and over again long after the logical fallacies and intellectual banalities of said arguments have been well established.

(By the way, congratulations, you seem to have added a few new fallacies to your already impressive repertoire with this thread: argumentum ad misericordiam, ad homimem circumstantial, and a twist on reductio ad absurdum with your Neo-Nazi comment, as well as keeping up with your old standbys argumentum ad nauseam and argumentum ad homimem 1.0)

Do you really have no idea how to construct a logical and consistent argument? I suppose that’s why you ultimately resort to name-calling (See above) and profanity. How childish. How boring. How merpish.

S.K. Cheung brings me back to my original point: In this crazy world, people do meet and fall in love and have wonderful lives together regardless of their racial background. How do I know? It happened to me. Maybe, someday, Merp, you’ll find the woman, man, Afghan Hound, Xbox game, whatever, that will make your own heart go pitter-patter and you’ll know of what we speak.

P.S. I wouldn’t shoot you Merp, but I would love to give you a library card.

September 3, 2010 @ 6:56 am | Comment

Jeremiah, you’re on quite a tear! Of course he’ll just keep saying the same thing, but with more ad hominems.

September 3, 2010 @ 7:10 am | Comment

Yeah, reminds me of the old saw about never trying to reason with a man who buys printers ink by the barrel. The 2010 corollary involves reasoning with the Internet addicted…same basic principle applies.

September 3, 2010 @ 7:17 am | Comment

Mike
I’m guessing this is a picture of Merp…

But I don’t smoke

Jeremiah
You are repeating the same arguments over and over again long after the logical fallacies and intellectual banalities of said arguments have been well established.

Nope.

Do you really have no idea how to construct a logical and consistent argument?

I can, can you? Your argument that targeting a minority of gold diggers is racist, because it hurts your feelings and you feel the need to e-defend this group of people. How noble of you. Actually care to make up an argument, instead of grandstanding and inventing straw men? Maybe you won’t be so boring then.

S.K. Cheung brings me back to my original point: In this crazy world, people do meet and fall in love and have wonderful lives together regardless of their racial background.

And in this same crazy world, 12 year old girls really can fall in love with 58 year old overweight men. Five women really can fall in love with one guy. A 20 year old porn star really can fall in love with a centenarian. And in some cases, especially in the American south, some people can fall in love with livestock.

It happens.

Richard
Jeremiah, you’re on quite a tear! Of course he’ll just keep saying the same thing, but with more ad hominems.

Jeremiah is on a tear? In making things up, coming up with terrible “arguments”, and creating straw men? Sure. Again, all the angry white boys are the ones throwing around the ad hominems- not me.

September 3, 2010 @ 9:05 am | Comment

Regardless, no matter how many times you declare yourself the victor despite being trashed on every level by me, or accuse me of insulting or using ad hominems when I have not, or call me a racist even though am not one, doesn’t make it true.

You don’t win the argument just because you have sycophants and yes-men nodding to your every failed attempt to gain ground here.

September 3, 2010 @ 9:08 am | Comment

You’re cute when you get mad.

September 3, 2010 @ 9:11 am | Comment

I don’t get mad, Jeremiah is amusing when he gets his panties in a twist however.

September 3, 2010 @ 9:14 am | Comment

Case in point, I typed two words and this thread turned into a huge shitstorm because some e-heros needed to defend some poor defenseless gold digging ernai from that ole “racist” merp.

September 3, 2010 @ 9:18 am | Comment

Let’s give it a rest, merpy. Everyone can see what happened here. If you think you”won” then more power to you. But we’ve definitely exhausted the subject.

September 3, 2010 @ 10:10 am | Comment

I’m not going to venture into most of this, but wanted to contribute something that I see as positive.

Merp mentioned that many non-white women who are in committed relationships with white men are self-haters. Whether or not this is true is irrelevant.

However, I do admit that there are very complex racial overtones in america and it may be possible that some women may be attracted to white men for certain cultural associations.

Regardless, my last girlfriend – who is 22 – I’m 31 – is so post-racial and post-immigrant it was refreshing. She was really comfortable with her self and her identity, as a somewhat-white-mostly-non white-suburban-girl-come-artist. She’s 1/8 Polish, 1/8 German, 1/4 Puerto Rican and 1/2 Chinese. The younger end of my generation has grown up with the concept of “American” detached from race much more than those people my age. I was really happy to have dated her, in part because she had not internalized any of the social stigma that non-white women my age sometimes feel when dating white guys.

Just some observations. The US might be in the shitter economically, and income disparity is at an all-time high, but I’m glad the racialized nature of the US is mellowing out more and more.

LW

September 3, 2010 @ 10:28 am | Comment

It is in some quarters LW, but racial violence and discontent is flaring up in rural areas, inner cities, etc.

Everyone can see what happened here.

That I insulted no one, was very clear in what I said, and was attacked by foaming at the mouth fenwais as usual? The peanut gallery may not agree, but I’m sure most observers would find Jeremiah’s limp-dicked platitudes quite old and stale.

September 3, 2010 @ 11:26 am | Comment

I think it’s time to zip up this thread. Claim victory if it makes you feel better.

September 3, 2010 @ 11:58 am | Comment

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