The thread.

Please keep it 100-percent LDS-free and FLG-free. Otherwise, discuss what you’d like. Everything related to the financial crisis and China’s stimulus package should go in the thread immediately below. Thanks.

Potential topics:
Shouldn’t every family have at least one gun?
The pope praises Ma for working with China (blocked in the PRC)
China’s “human flesh search engines” get global attention

______________

Richard Burger is the author of Behind the Red Door: Sex in China, an exploration of China's sexual revolution and its clash with traditional Chinese values.

The Discussion: 114 Comments

Can we discuss how LSD is the shit???

November 10, 2008 @ 12:06 pm | Comment

No.

November 10, 2008 @ 12:17 pm | Comment

I read that China plans to spend RMB 4 trillion.

What will happen to the value of the RMB with such inflationary spending in China, particularly if the value of the US dollar tanks?

November 10, 2008 @ 1:01 pm | Comment

is it just me, or does the pope article sound like it was written by a taiwanese version of the CPP?

also, interesting that the Vatican is the only country with formal relations with taiwan.

November 10, 2008 @ 2:39 pm | Comment

Basically, the whole human flesh search engine thing is vigilante journalism. In the States, the press does the same thing. I mean look at how they jumped on Joe the plumber when he stepped on the scene. A day later we all knew that he owed back taxes, wasn’t a licensed plumber, and was once on welfare. Of course, as far as I know, no feces has been thrown at his front door. (I’m all for freedom of speech, but I think hurling fecal matter should be outlawed as a form of debate.)

I’m pretty conflicted about this whole phenomenon. On the one hand, it’s thrilling to see people like that pedophile official get hung out to dry by regular citizens, but then you have Grace Wang and the disgusting reaction to her seemingly good intentions. It’s obvious that many people here want more out of their media and they want feel more involved in ongoing social debates, but since they can’t get it from official organs they take it into their own hands, which of course this results in a “black press” pushed into extreme actions by immoderate voices that simply are incapable of handling such issues with a modicum of civility.

By now, it’s cliche to say that China needs a more free and open press, and it all indicators seem to be saying that it is indeed heading in that direction. But because its development lacks the outright support of the Chinese government, it is only progressing at a snail’s pace and therefore hazards increasing instances of this type of “anarchic reporting”. Basically, when nobody trusts anybody else to do the job, you get messes like this.

November 10, 2008 @ 2:56 pm | Comment

Joe the Plumber was pushed into it by McCain. If he had then shut his mouth and not become a McCain spokesp-erson, agreeing Obama was goiing to destroy Israel, etc., he would have been fine. McCain offered him the publicity and Joe went for it, putting himself in the public eye. So I don’t quite put him in the category of wholly innocent victims of cyberterrorism as in the human flesh search engine story. He got what he asked for, and it was a vintage example of McCain stupidity, putting forth Joe Blow as a spokesperson without any knowledge of who he actually was.

November 10, 2008 @ 4:08 pm | Comment

Shouldn’t that be “Zhou” the Plumber?

November 10, 2008 @ 4:13 pm | Comment

And shouldn’t that be “Zhou” Blow?

November 10, 2008 @ 4:13 pm | Comment

Whoah, Richard. I wasn’t trying to paint him as an innocent victim. He’s an idiot pure and simple, and you’re right that its only because of McCain’s stupidity that America was exposed to this weirdo. Just pointing out that in the US the press takes care of the “dirty work” of reputation construction/destruction (not that he had any to begin with) and that in China it seems that you have these netizens-gone-wild who seek a perverted justice by digging up personal information that is at times unwarranted and perhaps ultimately as pointless as what we do in the States. The problem is in China these stories usually end in some at times undeserved tragedy for the target (pedofficial not included) , while we have to continue to suffer through Joe the Plumber interviews on Fox news. I guess in the end I’d rather live with the frustrating absurdity of the US news, than the terrifying anarchy of the human-flesh search engine.

November 10, 2008 @ 4:38 pm | Comment

Obviously that little boy doesn’t represent the majority of US gun users.

November 10, 2008 @ 5:58 pm | Comment

Bert, maybe not, but so many of the shootings and murders in America are committed by family members in moments of rage. There is certainly a correlation between the level of gun ownership in a society and the level of shootings. Now, of course I would never recommend gun control or any restrictions on letting anybody buy a gun, which is as much a part of the American dream as owning a home. And after all, guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Wait, let’s correct that: Guns don’t kill people; people with guns kill people.

November 10, 2008 @ 6:20 pm | Comment

How is that French people can get guns in China?

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-08/29/content_6064787.htm

November 10, 2008 @ 7:01 pm | Comment

My favorite line from Buck’s article is the police officer’s quote: “And as the suspect is a foreigner, we are handling the case according to law”

So telling, but more than likely a bad translation…

November 10, 2008 @ 8:28 pm | Comment

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7719081.stm

China blames the Dalai Lama and co for failed talks.

I just had to laugh when I read that one Chinese complaint was that some of the Tibetan proposals would have given non-Tibetans less rights and would be “ethnic cleansing”. That comment to me looks like code for saying the Tibetans wanted Han and other groups to not have automatic residency rights such that they might have to go back to their native provinces, not be able to send for their families to join them, stop more non-Tibetans come in unless it was to work temporarily, etc.

As ever this shows how divorced from reality the Chinese are when it comes to Tibet. I’m sorry to say this but if there is not a decent deal over Tibet by the time the Dalai Lama dies the region’s future will be one of blood. Younger Tibetans are angry and won’t listen to the old generation of leaders whose calls for non-violent opposition have got them nowhere. Unless something there is progress fast they will take matters into their own hands. China will then have a choice of pulling out, giving in to autonomy or engaging in a level of suppression that would make 1989 in Beijing look like a Sunday afternoon in Hyde Park.

November 10, 2008 @ 8:45 pm | Comment

So how does it usually go at these China-Dalai Lama meetings?

Chinese Rep.: “You must abandon all demands for an Independent Tibet and accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet!”

Dalai Lama’s Rep.: But we do abandon all demands for an Independent Tibet and accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet.

Chinese Rep.: “We don’t care! You must abandon all demands for an Independent Tibet and accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet!”

Dalai Lama’s Rep.: “But we do abandon all demands for an Independent Tibet and accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet.”

Chinese Rep.: “We don’t care! You must abandon all demands for an Independent Tibet and accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet!”

[Repeat]

November 10, 2008 @ 9:09 pm | Comment

Buck, I know. The Chinese demand the Tibetans give up claims they have already said they would not push for/would renounce. So why do they keep demanding this? Because officially they do not “trust” the Tibetan side, so they use it as a form of emotional/moral blackmail. To prove they do not want independence they have to give up on autonomy, limited/restricted migration of non-Tibetans to the region, etc too.

Then you wonder what exactly China is willing to give to reach a settlement. A few pandas?

November 10, 2008 @ 9:37 pm | Comment

Richard, you know my position on this. Why do you reply to gun issues with so much emotion and sarcasm? I was serious when I made my statement. That link you posted reads exactly like the kind of over the top shrill mumbo jumbo the dreaded Republicans are accused of doing about keeping us safe from terrorism and all things such as that.

“In those six years, nearly 100,000 people — an incredible number — have been murdered in the United States.”

I just looked around the internet and found another ‘report’ that stated 200,000. Of course it was written this year. It means 100,000 died this past year from guns?

http://blog.nj.com/njv_john_piserchia/2008/09/our_streets_are_bleeding_nobod.html

http://www.gunreports.com/news/handguns/FBI-Firearms-Violent-Crime-Statistics_807-1.html

I don’t not support violence. Please understand this. If a little boy used a gun to protect his family would this be in the national news? But it is best if we don’t go around and around over this I guess.

November 10, 2008 @ 11:39 pm | Comment

Is Obama the clone/children of Malcom X?

Ok, since this is an open thread… I’ll bring something funny and humorous… Please don’t flame me for doing so. It’s really a joke.

http://tinyurl.com/59lz2s

The pics are troublesome to say the least… ;)

November 10, 2008 @ 11:47 pm | Comment

Raj,

You do not need to worry about Tibet. It will be fine after the Dalai dies. The bloody price has been built in the current policy.

Also before you ask what exactly China is willing to give to reach a settlement, you should ask what leverage Dalai has?

November 11, 2008 @ 12:50 am | Comment

A funny exercise for the crazies like me… (Don’t forget Richard I am the clown here) ;)

I’m reading the news frequently, not to say obsessively… And today I could not help but to find funny similarities between two news, distant from 1 year. I sometime wonder if they use a random news generator software to distract and please the small people…

Warning: Please take this lightly, it is also somehow a joke… ;)

In the first story the guy is a Japanese… So touching and seeding hope of peace and harmony between 2 cultures.

http://shanghaiist.com/2007/07/09/japanese_man_lo.php

http://www.house.gov/pelosi/press/releases/June07/women.html

These two events… Happened in the same month or so…

And today’s news…

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-11/10/content_7188608.htm

This time, the story happens… in the worst affected region of the country by the economy… EMPASIS: Shenzhen special economic zone, Guangdong province. Putting a balm of hope and love on the job loss, so touching.

Seeding anyone ?

Connecting the dots.. As usual..

Oab at your service.

;)

(and the next reply will be: Go see a shrink.. Whatever).

November 11, 2008 @ 1:38 am | Comment

China has scored another victory against the Tibetan separatists.

Britain has just clarified its position on the status of Tibet:

http://www.china.org.cn/international/news/2008-11/02/content_16700275.htm

An interesting article. Britain used to recognize Chinese suzerainty over Tibet. The Tibetan separatists claimed that Britain did not accept Chinese sovereignty in Tibet.

Now there is no ambiguity. As far as Britain (and the rest of the world) is concerned, Tibet is part of China. Period.

November 11, 2008 @ 2:08 am | Comment

Test

November 11, 2008 @ 2:31 am | Comment

Wow this was an interesting episode of paranoia… Using Witopia, I could not see my most recent post. And switching to another VPN it is magically appearing.

If anybody is using this service here in China, I’ll be glad to send them a very educative email exchange I had with them. And this exchange started right before the Olympics, coincidence of course…

Trust no one as we say.

November 11, 2008 @ 2:34 am | Comment

It will be fine after the Dalai dies.

Sure, just like the only thing holding Taiwanese from unifying with their “brothers and sisters” in China is their evil democracy……

The bloody price has been built in the current policy.

You think young Tibetans will give a monkey’s about that? What do you think the average age of the people rioting earlier this year was? I didn’t see any grey-heads.

Also before you ask what exactly China is willing to give to reach a settlement, you should ask what leverage Dalai has?

Then why is China negotiating with him? Because privately it acknowledges he’s the only person who Tibetans will ever listen to – though it will never say that openly. And it’s precisely because they’ll only listen to him that you should be scared of a future without a settlement and him dead.

November 11, 2008 @ 3:47 am | Comment

Is Dalai that stupid? What cards does he have to play against the CCP? How many divisions does he have? He’s now in the late stage of pancreatic cancer (the most deadly form of cancer). Once he goes away in a few months, and the CCP assigns a new Lama, then what’s left of the independence movement? The Tibetan Youth League? Do they really dare to go against the CCP? Do they enjoy being gangraped by the CCP, like in the 1950′s? To think of it, PLA new T-90 Tanks just rolled off the assembly line. Maybe those monks are a good first test subject.

The only card Dalai had was the “support” of the US and Europe, and he made a last ditch attempt during the Olympics, but failed. Now, given the current global economic crisis, US and Europe no longer wants to go against China, and therefore naturally told Dalai to piss off. So now, he’s just a lonely virgin Monk.

If I were Dalai, I would renounce Tibetan independence, support the CCP, and be invited back and get some title like some head of China’s Office of Tibetan Affairs or something, goes around China giving some speeches about Hu’s harmonious society, denounce a few Western gov’ts, promote some CCP’s policies. I’ll get free house, free social status, free women, what a great retirement.

November 11, 2008 @ 4:51 am | Comment

Sigh…the Dalai Lama has repeatedly renounced Tibetan independence. What you should really be worrying about is what happens after he dies…there are a lot of Tibetans who are not nearly as accommodating as he is.

November 11, 2008 @ 6:29 am | Comment

What cards does he have to play against the CCP?

CCP: “What cards do you have to play?”
Dalai Lama: “I’m your only means of resolving the Tibetan problem peacefully. When I die, your hopes of peace die with me.”

That answer your question?

November 11, 2008 @ 6:43 am | Comment

Raj,
Instead of worrying about Tibet after Dalailama, you’d better put your attention on your mother land(Indian, I assume from your name). Tibet will be absolutely fine, and people will have a new Dalailama and much better life and peaceful life than most Indians had ever experienced under British rule and will ever experience with your so-called democracy.
Your fear on China is mostly rooted from your ignorance about China/Tibet and India. If you study more, you will find Indian never was a standalone country before British colonists put them together arbitrarily. It’s more likely India being broken into 100 pieces than seeing Tibet to separate from China.
Best

November 11, 2008 @ 7:50 am | Comment

Those young violent Tibetans will get nowhere, Raj. Their biggest asset is Dalai’s reputation in westerners. Thus, they might apply pressure indirectly from their western friends and media coverage. O game was certainly the peak opportunity for that advantage.

That is why Beijing is talking with Dalai while he is still alive. Once the old monk passed away, why should they be scared of a bunch of violent young people without any resources living in the most remote and isolated areas in the country? They tried the violence approaches several times before, ie in 1960s, 1989, 1990s and last March. What did they achieve exactly? As guardian.co.uk reported, the CCP’s statement was broadcasting live in the major TV programs in China. The hardliners definitely will not give Dalai anything he wants.

November 11, 2008 @ 8:01 am | Comment

Why China keep demanding that Dalai lama must abandon all demands for an Independent Tibet and accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet!”
why?
Is it that so difficult to know the truth?

If you can google, stupidity is not an excuse.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/10/content_10336956.htm

You are confusing because the Western propaganda machines refuse to report what China has to say, intentionally fooling their own people and Indian.

If you don’t want to know China’s position, why waste your time talking about China?

November 11, 2008 @ 8:22 am | Comment

Bert: Please understand this. If a little boy used a gun to protect his family would this be in the national news? But it is best if we don’t go around and around over this I guess.

Damned straight it would – it would be front-page news. Gun nuts live in a parallel universe. The police are the ones who want fewer guns in people’s pockets more than anyone else, because they are in the front lines seeing what they do. There are plenty of right-wing publications now, and any story about guns being used to stop crime are in the public record. The only reason we don’t see them on the front pages (and sometimes we certainly do) is that they are so rare. When it comes to crime, the vast number of guns involved (the police excepted) are used to commit the crime, not to protect against it. And Bert, I don’t remember your stand on guns and I don’t care. Guns suck and just like our lack of healthcare, their proliferation among the general population causes the US to stand out among developed nations as an anomaly, a country with warped values. And in this respect it is. And when put up links to articles by pro-gun organizations it does not further your cause. I can put up links showing global warming is pure fiction, but it’s written by an oil lobby, or that smoking is good for you, written by a tobacco lobbyist. I know this is a touchy subject, more emotionally charged than even abortion for some reason I’ve never understood. Guns are bad. There is no reason for anyone ordinary citizen to have a handgun. Ask you friendly neighborhood police officer what he or she thinks. That should tell you a lot.

November 11, 2008 @ 9:13 am | Comment

Bao, when you include more than two links in a post, it gets stopped by the spam filter.

Andy: Just pointing out that in the US the press takes care of the “dirty work” of reputation construction/destruction (not that he had any to begin with) and that in China it seems that you have these netizens-gone-wild who seek a perverted justice by digging up personal information

I think the press is fairly good about not divulging personal details about anyone who is not considered a public figure. Once you are in that category, anything goes, I’m afraid. The Internet stalkers in China go quite beyond this, to the point of making threats that are inspired by nothing more than Internet gossip. So I don’t quite put them in the same category. Bloggers like Michelle Malkin are aberrations in the US media, actually inviting her pitchfork-wielding minions to torment those who offend her.

November 11, 2008 @ 9:22 am | Comment

Dalai Lama and his followers (about 300K of them in total around the world, of which 10K of them are in USA from a lottery visa system in the 70s and 80s) have one fundamental issue: they have no power, both military power and political power. The attention to them and to their cause are drawn or given by the Western media and governments as a hedge against China. So unless this group of people develope some serious military and political powers, China will just simple give them lip service and wait them out from natural diminishment.

US government will never enter any negotitation with Native American on the ownership of US continent. What make you think that Chinese government will even bother to talk to Dalai Lama on the ownership of Tibet (which has always declared Beijing as central government for most of last 500 years) … because Dalai Lama may bad mouth CCP? Big deal.

So Daila dies, and who will really pick up guns to invade China to take over Tibet? Those 300K followers who were former slave owners and nobles? Do you really in your clearest mind will think that this group of people will really rage a military war or terrorist activities against China? So they might get a bit roudy, burning some Chinese flags or screaming their lungs off by the Chinese embassy. Big deal.

Yes there is something called the arrogance of power. China has all the cards. It doesn’t even bother to talk to Daila. And Daila knows it. All these talks are just shows to Western media and governments as ways for China to nullify any criticism from the West (they really don’t care about Daila’s followers) and as ways for Daila to re-assert his usefulness to his Western supporters.

The Tibetan issue is what I call a “much to do about nothing” political ball dance and ritual. In historical perspective, it is as significant as the Hawaii Independence Movement and the Native American Independence Movement.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Otherlisa said,

Sigh…the Dalai Lama has repeatedly renounced Tibetan independence. What you should really be worrying about is what happens after he dies…there are a lot of Tibetans who are not nearly as accommodating as he is.

November 11, 2008 @ 9:38 am | Comment

The attention to them and to their cause are drawn or given by the Western media and governments as a hedge against China. So unless this group of people develope some serious military and political powers, China will just simple give them lip service and wait them out from natural diminishment.

Absolutely correct. This comment hit the nail on the head. Taiwan, with full military support of the US, has more advanced weaponry than Mainland, and it still cannot get anywhere with independence. Tell me, how would some virgin monks achieve independence? What is their capital? Raj threatened terrorist activities against Beijing from those from the Tibetan Youth League. post-Dalai. Well I’d like to repeat the words of the vice-chair of China’s United Works Front in yesterday press conference: “If you are trying to threaten us with violence, then let’s go. It’s not like we have not engaged each other before. And everyone here knows the results of our previous engagements.”

If you study more, you will find Indian never was a standalone country before British colonists put them together arbitrarily. It’s more likely India being broken into 100 pieces than seeing Tibet to separate from China.

Tony, you are mistaken. Raj never sees any problem with British colonists in India. He believes they are admirable and brought civilization and enlightenment to his country. And he still maintains that he’s a British, not Indian.

Some people are just born to enjoy being gangbanged, what can you do.

November 11, 2008 @ 9:48 am | Comment

The Dalai Lama specializes in kissing up to the West. Nobody does this better than he.

When he dies, the world loses an ass kisser.

November 11, 2008 @ 9:49 am | Comment

By the way, Beijing has just had a formal press release on the talks with the special envoy from Dalai Lama. The key sentence is:

我们只接受甲日等人作为达赖喇嘛的私人代表与我们接触商谈,谈的只能是达赖喇嘛彻底放弃分裂主义主张和活动,争取中央和全国人民谅解,解决其个人前途问题,最多再加上他身边一些人的前途问题。我们根本不会与之讨论什么“西藏问题”。

In translation: We only accept the special envoy as Dalai Lama’s personal representatives to be in contact with the Chinese government on how Dalai Lama can completely give up any separatist propositions and activities, in exchange for the forgiveness of the central governement and all Chinese peoeple (including Tibetans), as well as his own personal future, and at most the future of some of his followers. We absolute would not discuss any “Tibetan Issue.”

我们指出,你们既不是“上级国家机关的有关部门”,也不是“民族自治地方的自治机关”,连个合法身份都没有,说得客气一点,你们提出这个问题是不适宜的。说得直白一点,你们没有提出这个问题的资格。

In translation: We must point out, that Daila Lama and his followers do have have any national government offices, or Self-government of Ethnic Autonomous Areas, not even a legitimate political entity. To be polite, it is inappropriate for you to raise the Tibetan Issue. To be frank, you have no qualifications to raise this issue.

So … for all of you talking about Dalai Lama and his story of Greater Tibet and the fight for the self governing Autonomous Region, it doesn’t even exist in the Chinese government’s agenda. All of talks about talking to Dalai Lama is just … talks. The talks will only lead to the resolution of the personal future of Dalai Lama. Nothing more.

Clear and simple.

November 11, 2008 @ 9:58 am | Comment

Haha mike, yes I read the whole transcript of that Press Conference, I think they are uploaded to youtube as well. I must say, this is one of the most “manly” press conference given in a long time.

CCP chose to be hardline over the Tibetan issue, and it’s well calculated. They know the Dalai does not have many days left, as pancreatic cancer spreads extremely quickly. And they know that Dalai has no more cards left to play, his entire underwear has been stripped, he is now bankrupt. After he dies, his followers will disintegrate and this whole movement will just be reduced to some radical groups with some occasional shouts and protests.

So, the CCP saw Dalai’s underwear and realize there’s nothing left of him, why should they be nice?

CCP 1 – 0 Dalai

November 11, 2008 @ 10:03 am | Comment

For those who believe Dalai Lama would “abandon all demands for an Independent Tibet and accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet”, go to this website and read the Charter of Tibetans in-Exile:

http://www.tibet.com/govt/charter.html

Do you still believe his shxt?

November 11, 2008 @ 10:42 am | Comment

Hi Jason,

So how does it usually go at these China-Dalai Lama meetings?

Chinese Rep.: “You must abandon all demands for an Independent Tibet and accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet.”

Dalai Lama’s Rep.: But we say to abandon all demands for an Independent Tibet and accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet. But I really mean, well, you know, eh, eh, eh… we want an independent Tibet.

Some nerd: Yeah! way to go, smart Dalai!

Chinese Rep.: “You must abandon all demands for an Independent Tibet and accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet!”

Dalai Lama’s Rep.: “But we said to abandon all demands for an Independent Tibet and accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet. Actually we mean, you know, we do want an independent Tibet!”

Some nerd: Oh Yeah! way to go, Dalai rocks and rolls!

Chinese Rep.: “Shut up! You must abandon all demands for an Independent Tibet and accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet!”

[Repeat]

November 11, 2008 @ 11:15 am | Comment

ePooPoo,

The “real autonomy” or “more autonomy” mentioned by Dalai is actually independence. The only difference is the label. 25% of the whole country, no PLA bases, no Han immigration…Dalai can call what he wants. It will never fly as far as I can see.

November 11, 2008 @ 1:59 pm | Comment

China cannot arrange a peaceful agreement with DL?

Guess what other people under Han domination are thinking now.

Problems ahead in the future, and maybe in the worst of times.

November 11, 2008 @ 3:55 pm | Comment

Those young violent Tibetans will get nowhere, Raj.

Has Al-Qaeda “got anywhere” other than made themselves public enemy number 1? No. You fail to understand that eventually some people decide if peace doesn’t work the only thing left is conflict.

+++

It’s more likely India being broken into 100 pieces than seeing Tibet to separate from China.

Perhaps, but only because China is willing to kill to stop the latter happening. How many people can you tolerate dying? When would it become too much to keep as a part of China, or in your mind is there no limit?

Raj threatened terrorist activities against Beijing from those from the Tibetan Youth League. post-Dalai.

Hong, I can’t threaten anything – I’m warning about what I regard as likely to happen. Do you understand the difference? Guess not.

Raj never sees any problem with British colonists in India.

Hong, stop talking out of your arse. I might as well accuse you of saying that there has never been any injustice under the Communists in China and that the only reason it isn’t number 1 in the world is that the Jewish-American illuminati have engaged in a global conspiracy to keep it down.

November 11, 2008 @ 4:09 pm | Comment

What, you mean everyone doesn’t pack their pistol to business meetings?

November 11, 2008 @ 6:37 pm | Comment

fatbrick wrote:

“The “real autonomy” or “more autonomy” mentioned by Dalai is actually independence. The only difference is the label. 25% of the whole country, no PLA bases, no Han immigration…Dalai can call what he wants. It will never fly as far as I can see.”

No—Hong Kong could be a model for Tibet: Tibet controls Han immigration, has its own border and police, and the Han military presence is minimal, if not absent. No reasonable person would argue that Hong Kong is “independent”.

November 11, 2008 @ 6:45 pm | Comment

I heard that when Paulson attends the US-China Strategic Dialogue meetings that he sits at the table with a light bulb in his mouth, like Uncle Fester. When Paulson gets an idea, the light bulb lights up.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/11/10

November 11, 2008 @ 6:48 pm | Comment

Sam_S wrote:
“What, you mean everyone doesn’t pack their pistol to business meetings?”

Of course everyone packs a pistol to business meetings. It’s just that one isn’t supposed to “pull” one’s piece, except in the men’s room!

November 11, 2008 @ 6:58 pm | Comment

Maybe you still don’t get it: the Chinese government has no interest to negotiate about anything related to Tibet with Dalai Lama. The meeting with Dalai’s envoy is set as the resolution on the personal future of Dalai and his followers, not of any political and governmental issues of Tibet.

Dalai and his 300K followers have no power, both politically and militarily. Their continuing existence is from the pure support of western media and governments.

What on earth China needs to talk to Dalai about Tibet? Seriously. It is as if a kid comes over to the candy store, keeps asking for NOT candies BUT a quarter of the store, giving all kinds of reasons like I ain’t going to scream, I ain’t going to cry, I ain’t going to bad mouth the owner in the school playground, I ain’t going to let my pre-school friends to come over and scream with me (“take note, mister, they might be little kids, but they can beat you up if I don’t stop them, trust me on this … because I am the reputable kid to them.”)

When he walks out of the store, he cries to the bystander adults that the owner did not give him even a candy! How cruel! He just wants a candy … and a quarter of the property so he can enjoy that candy! How cruel they don’t even give him a candy! :)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

fatbrick wrote:

No—Hong Kong could be a model for Tibet: Tibet controls Han immigration, has its own border and police, and the Han military presence is minimal, if not absent. No reasonable person would argue that Hong Kong is “independent”.

November 11, 2008 @ 7:27 pm | Comment

By the way, fatbrick, the reason I am writing here is not to convince you or anybody of anything. I am just bored. Chinese government knows exactly how to deal with Dalai and his followers. And they have all the support from the Chinese population. That is all that matters. Any outsiders talking about Tibet and talking about support for Dalai is just that … talks. It carries no signficance other than a mean of self-indulgence and self-gratification.

November 11, 2008 @ 7:36 pm | Comment

Chinese government knows exactly how to deal with Dalai and his followers.

Before the riots earlier this year, no Chinese person would have said they would have happened. They caught everyone by surprise because up until now China has been full of hubris and arrogance over how “well” it has dealt with Tibet.

The riots should have made China realise its policies had failed, but Beijing has just thrust its head deeper into the sand. What will it take to convince China it needs a new direction? Dozens of Han being murdered at a time? Regular bombings? The whole region bursting into flames?

November 11, 2008 @ 7:43 pm | Comment

It was a staged riot. It can be dealt with effectively. It still does not contrdict my statement on Chinese government knows exactly how to deal with Dalai and his followers – that is, the tone has been set that any resolution with Dalai and his followers are on personal future for this group, not on any political or governmental grounds.

Will there any further riots flare up in Tibet and in fact in many parts of China? Of course there will be. Will they be handled swiftly and effectively. Yes. So my statement remains as correct.

By the way, if there is regular bombings, that is persistent terrorist attacks, and China will deal with this group with completely different manner, and I don’t believe India will be treated as the housing and nurturing ground for these terrorists, don’t you agree? :)

>>>>>

Raj says,

Before the riots earlier this year, no Chinese person would have said they would have happened. They caught everyone by surprise because up until now China has been full of hubris and arrogance over how “well” it has dealt with Tibet.

November 11, 2008 @ 8:59 pm | Comment

Well…riots like that in March happened, happens, and will happen in all over China, including in Tibet. However, the major reason for such riots is the huge gap between the rich and the poor, rahter than independence, democracy, or freedom (or any fancy terms you want to use).

You guys simply do not get the fact that the Chinese grass-root people actually want “communism”. But this is the “communism” before 1980s, by then they were poor but they were equally poor.

In western countries, there are “left-wing” or “right-wing”, “liberal” or “conservative”. The same thing happens inside CCP. The majority of CCP enjoy free market economy (or money, more clearly). On this point, they are not different from western politicians. However, there are a small part of CCP who still really support the “communism”. They are never the favour focus of either CCP leaders or western leaders, but they are the favour of Chinese grass-root peopel.

November 11, 2008 @ 9:03 pm | Comment

In 1959, Dalai and his followers were not so “peaceful” as they act now. They had an army, and they even got military support from CIA. They were having a war with CCP troops. This war ended when CCP and USA turned to be allies against the former Soviet Union in 1970s.

It is clear that CCP won the war. So, why will they be afraid of terrorism threaten from the Tibetan Youth League? Is the tibetan Youth League’s military power much stronger than Dalai’s old army in 1959?

November 11, 2008 @ 9:25 pm | Comment

It was a staged riot. It can be dealt with effectively.

Why would it have been staged way before the Olympics? If it had been planned to that degree it would have taken place much later. You have no evidence that it was staged, other than your desire that it be that way.

Will there any further riots flare up in Tibet and in fact in many parts of China? Of course there will be. Will they be handled swiftly and effectively. Yes.

Unless your meaning of “effectively” means beating up monks and random people, how can the response be effective if the riots keep flaring up? Where is the attempt to cure the long-term problem rather than just keep jamming the lid back on the boiling pot of water?

China will deal with this group with completely different manner

Which would be….. ?

+++

However, the major reason for such riots is the huge gap between the rich and the poor, rahter than independence, democracy, or freedom

In Tibet it is a desire for all of those things, not just one.

You guys simply do not get the fact that the Chinese grass-root people actually want “communism”.

Except that Tibetans aren’t “Chinese grass-root people”.

November 11, 2008 @ 9:31 pm | Comment

Why why why why why can’t people just vote on this? Oh, that’s right, because China doesn’t want to acknowledge even the remote possibility that some of its citizens don’t want to be its citizens. To allow a vote in Tibet or any other area in the PRC would be to allow the slight possibility that people disagree with current national boundaries. Scary thought, eh CCP?

November 11, 2008 @ 10:31 pm | Comment

Chip,

yeah, CCP is as evil as Abraham Lincoln.

November 12, 2008 @ 12:10 am | Comment

“The riots should have made China realise its policies had failed, but Beijing has just thrust its head deeper into the sand. What will it take to convince China it needs a new direction? Dozens of Han being murdered at a time? Regular bombings? The whole region bursting into flames?”

We don’t talk to terrorists, Raj, we kill them. Especially those religious nutty terrorists who believe in reincarnation. we’ll help them to reincarnate.

November 12, 2008 @ 12:17 am | Comment

Seems like you might have very soon a lot of terrorist to deal with tree sitter…

Don’t forget your rule as you said: Kill them all… But first make sure it’s not your uncle or your sister…

November 12, 2008 @ 12:37 am | Comment

Raj,

Has Al-Qaeda “got anywhere” other than made themselves public enemy number 1? No. You fail to understand that eventually some people decide if peace doesn’t work the only thing left is conflict.
———————————————————

Of course CCP knows that there will be conflicts. Just the price of the conflict is still lower than consessions to Dalai.

Forget about Hongkong model. Hongkong has 1money and expertise which can easily move around if CCP does not stick to those terms. Tibet has strategic importance but not economic benefits. They are really in different leagues.

November 12, 2008 @ 1:21 am | Comment

Raj,

The riot did cause some civilions surprised. But that made those violent Tibet worse in long run. Through the riot, the public supports for government to take hardline toward those violence are much higher. If there were a next one as you predict, the demand for revenge would be much stronger. At the time, without the PR concerns related to O game, it could be cruel.

There is no better time than now to take a strong position toward Dalai. The excitement in the west before O game definitely passed. The financial crisis made western governments be occupied with their economic management so that they do not have money and will to support Dalai at the moment. Private donation probably also dried up. CCP made a good short term decision to take advantage of the moment just as Dalai took advantage of O game to present his PR tricks.

November 12, 2008 @ 1:38 am | Comment

Meanwhile… Sorry to interrupt this important thread about some subjects covered a zillion times (a variant of the dancing chickens, god I love this image, picture perfect)…

Since when do congressmen give interviews to Alex Jone?

“He will intensify and grow the Bush security state, military state, and police state. His main goals will be to take control of natural resources and money. This will be the purpose of the New World Establishment. Paul also suggested that “any escalation could be facilitated by false flag events such as Gulf of Tonkin style incidents.”

Obabush.

Watch this term Richard (I know you hate it now, but you will understand later), The first time I Googled it, it returned 232 results, that was 3 weeks ago. Now we are up at 740, out of which around 6 are relevant.

Trends and trends… So funny…

November 12, 2008 @ 1:47 am | Comment

“Seems like you might have very soon a lot of terrorist to deal with tree sitter…

Don’t forget your rule as you said: Kill them all… But first make sure it’s not your uncle or your sister…”

We would kill all terrorists not protesters, don’t be a sleazyball and change my words. Well, what can one expect from an Oab.

November 12, 2008 @ 2:06 am | Comment

Oh, I apologize Tree Sitter… I thought that these people were protesters and demonstrators, my bad. Silly me.

Put under this perspective, you are absolutely right.

November 12, 2008 @ 2:12 am | Comment

Oab,

You are a perfect example of taking others’ words out of context. I was addressing Raj’s threatening statement. We’ll kill all those terrorists who set bombs and murder dozens of Han or whatever people at a time. Your regular protesters do that?

This is what Raj said.

“The riots should have made China realise its policies had failed, but Beijing has just thrust its head deeper into the sand. What will it take to convince China it needs a new direction? Dozens of Han being murdered at a time? Regular bombings? The whole region bursting into flames?”

Now go back be an oab

November 12, 2008 @ 2:32 am | Comment

But I do agree with Raj…

I don’t think you have a clear grasp on what I am saying, but that’s OK. Don’t worry.

I think you don’t understand the concept of Irony. But do you understand the concept of Iron Curtain ? Sounds the same, so maybe it rings a bell.

November 12, 2008 @ 2:43 am | Comment

Ok Tree, I was joking.. But I think my humor style is too obscure and I am the only one understanding it.

So, I’ll stay out of this jousting.

November 12, 2008 @ 2:51 am | Comment

Oab,

“But I think my humor style”

That’s the funniest line you’ve ever had, good job, goodjob

November 12, 2008 @ 2:54 am | Comment

I’m not a funny guy. I fall more into the cynical scarecrow category. But thanks for giving me credits in this category.

November 12, 2008 @ 2:58 am | Comment

“I’m not a funny guy”

You are getting better, Oab. We see progress in you, good job, goodjob

November 12, 2008 @ 3:00 am | Comment

Thanks to my weekly sessions with the shrink.

Now go back to my fist post on this blog, read every single link I’ve posted, in detail. Take into account the chronological aspect of the events that are unfolding now, in your narrow minded reality.

And come back…

And say that again.

Have fun Tree.

November 12, 2008 @ 3:03 am | Comment

Btw, including some info for the readers: Fist Post definition – http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=617492

November 12, 2008 @ 3:24 am | Comment

Speaking of separatists, Chen Shiu-Bian has just been arrested. One down. A few more to go. Who is going to be the next? The Dalai? Would love to see him in handcuffs, or an orange suit.

November 12, 2008 @ 3:34 am | Comment

Dance Serve the People Dance!

November 12, 2008 @ 3:43 am | Comment

We don’t talk to terrorists, Raj, we kill them.

How do you kill them if they hide amongst the Tibetan community? Many Tibetans may not give them up, so how would you tell who is who?

November 12, 2008 @ 6:11 am | Comment

That extreme nationalism of some visitors here is one of the greatest dangers in the future of China.

It time of crisis all the ingredients are present: Strong sense of identity, real or alleged past grievances, inferiority/superiority complex mixed together, paranoid vision of critics, to much fixation of their own rights and total disregard of other’s.

We have seen that before in other times and place. Yeah, funny times may be coming.

November 12, 2008 @ 6:12 am | Comment

Raj

Get a grasp of reality, the majority of the Tibetans in Tibet want nothing with terrorists, bombs, mass murder of other ethnic groups as you suggested. Read your favorite news source. The Tibetan provincial government had no problem taking of of business.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,447124,00.html

November 12, 2008 @ 6:34 am | Comment

“how would you tell who is who?”

Are you implying that all Tibetans look alike? I am stunned by the ignorance you are showing here. Not that you knew what you were talking about, but you are in a league of your own now.

November 12, 2008 @ 8:02 am | Comment

Hi Tree Sitter, fatbrick and etc all,

Why would you care so much about what this Lajy think? ppl are allowed to think what they want to think, while the fact is the fact. ppl like to put ‘red army’ and ‘cummi’ or whatever tags to china. ppl also love to look down chinese as chiken, or whatever … But, at the end of day, when ‘red army’ and ‘cummi’ started to own capitals and money, who cares what? As long as the chiken has a fist to beat out whoever want to bully the chiken, who cares about whether it’s called a chiken or a lion (or: maybe ‘evil’? :P ) Point is, ppl can think as they love, Chinese fellows move on.

November 12, 2008 @ 2:24 pm | Comment

@ePooPoo

Your post is another version of:

We do what we want,
We don’t care at all what other think or feel (only if it affect us)
And alleged grievances ( the chicken thing)

Another form of nationalistic rant.

November 12, 2008 @ 3:30 pm | Comment

Needless to say, “ePooPoo” is posting from the US. How are things on the West Coast, ePP?

November 12, 2008 @ 4:53 pm | Comment

Tree Sitter

Your ignorance is astounding. First, the fact that most Tibetans may not support violence does not mean that some do not. In Northern Ireland terrorists had plenty of safe places to live in, and even if some people didn’t agree with what they did they wouldn’t speak out for fear of reprisals.

As for identifying people, has China placed a CCTV camera on every street corner observing every possible angle? Can these cameras see through scarfs wrapped around faces to supposedly keep out the cold or other items of clothing that conceal the face (part or whole)? Can Chinese Police identify people as being potential terrorists just by looking at them?

You seem to believe that China somehow has law-enforcement techniques light-years ahead of the rest of the world. How come then that crimes occur in China?

You really are a joke!

November 12, 2008 @ 7:45 pm | Comment

Obama’s “Civilian National Security Force”

Did anybody dig into this concept since Obama first expressed it in July?

There was a link to the Chicago Tribune:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-obama-national-servicejul03,0,5754842.story

But this link is now dead and points to the general Obama section of the Chicago Tribune site.

Don’t start flaming me for posting stuff that could be seen as an attempt to discredit Obama (I wished for his election). But the more I dig on his agenda, the more it fits into the Globalization / NWO scenario.

As stated before in some theories, China is supposedly the social and economical model of the future.

More and more I am dropping down the war scenarios and seeing much more signs about the globalization agenda (they will always be there of course, to distract the mass).

Which brings me to a question:

Is Globalization and world wide government a bad thing for humanity ?

So far it’s being depicted as the most evil thing on earth and it generates fear an anxiety. But what if this model was actually good in the long run?

I am just asking, not taking any stance here…

November 13, 2008 @ 12:36 am | Comment

I once posted about the cultural war that the east and the west are waging and tonight I’ve found an interesting opinion article about how China is spreading its culture and image in the world today.

Some people have been foolishly saying that China tends to care only about its territory and local issues. And that somehow, the global agenda was not relevant for “real” Chinese people.

I disagree, of course. China is no different compare to the global players today, in its aspirations and in its goals. Sometimes when I hear the rhetoric stating that China is a developing country, I have mixed feelings.

Yes China is a developing country, but its middle class is now almost comparable to the population of the US. And taking into account the zillion of slaves that build this country, one fact remains: There is already the equivalent of one middle size developed country inside China.

Do we have to wait that the equivalent of 3 times the population of the US is “developed” to consider China a developed country?

In the west, we followed a similar path: the cities being ahead in their development compared to the countryside for decades. And still, we’ve never been labeled as a developing country.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/12/opinion/edlee.php

“Growing its economic and military might – like firing missiles capable of taking down a satellite – is about demonstrating the country’s capability. But establishing more than 260 Confucian Institutes in over 75 countries to teach the Chinese language and the Chinese interpretation of history and putting a man on the moon are about something else.”

November 13, 2008 @ 2:16 am | Comment

Raj

” even if some people didn’t agree with what they did they wouldn’t speak out for fear of reprisals.”

They don’t need to speak out, there are plenty video evidences.

“As for identifying people, has China placed a CCTV camera on every street corner observing every possible angle? Can these cameras see through scarfs wrapped around faces to supposedly keep out the cold or other items of clothing that conceal the face (part or whole)? ”

No and no, but for those bravos who don’t wear scarfs and are caught on tape, tough luck.

“Can Chinese Police identify people as being potential terrorists just by looking at them?”

We’re talking about arresting those who got caught on tape. In what world video evidences don’t count in court?

“You seem to believe that China somehow has law-enforcement techniques light-years ahead of the rest of the world. How come then that crimes occur in China? ”

What a dumb question, why am I not surprised by a McCain/Palin supporter.

November 13, 2008 @ 5:42 am | Comment

We’re talking about arresting those who got caught on tape.

And for those circumstances where people are not caught on tape, or the resolution is insufficient to identify a person, or they have no record/no one knows who they are?

What a dumb question, why am I not surprised by a McCain/Palin supporter

Given you are now assuming that there will always be crystal-clear video evidence, for Richard’s sake I hope you’re not an Obama-Biden guy.

November 13, 2008 @ 7:51 am | Comment

The nightmare is coming true. The NWO is REAL! Look at what has been happening! They’re just coming out and annoucing this NWO all around the world. It ain’t no secret no more!

U.S as about to lose AAA ratings.

Paulson comes out to apologize to the world for the fuck that the bankers ENGINEERED.

This is crazy.

Rothschild in an UAE interview openly admitted to the NWO and how they have their hands in everything!!!

This is real folks.

November 13, 2008 @ 10:04 am | Comment

bye-bye, EPP.

Richard

November 13, 2008 @ 12:06 pm | Comment

Raj,

“And for those circumstances where people are not caught on tape, or the resolution is insufficient to identify a person, or they have no record/no one knows who they are?”

Dimbo, before the invention of cctv, nobody was ever arrested in your country?

November 13, 2008 @ 12:43 pm | Comment

Nah, it is actually the other way around. Younger Chinese are getting more and more concern about making money, keeping money and being concern about how to move ahead in society. All the tough talks are just that … tough talks. It means very little. If you read deep enough, there is a tone of irony and amusement in many of these tough talks because there is a change of attitude. Before there is a strong desire to “connect” or “convince” to the non-Chinese on issues. But nowaday, it is more or less a sense of “dismissive frown” and “collective amusement” toward these arguers who keep on nagging on issues of what I call “much to do about nothing.” :)

Don’t take it too serious, seriously. :p

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

eco said,

That extreme nationalism of some visitors here is one of the greatest dangers in the future of China.

It time of crisis all the ingredients are present: Strong sense of identity, real or alleged past grievances, inferiority/superiority complex mixed together, paranoid vision of critics, to much fixation of their own rights and total disregard of other’s.

We have seen that before in other times and place. Yeah, funny times may be coming.

November 13, 2008 @ 3:37 pm | Comment

I hope this is worded better and not offensive.

I have talked to many police. I have friends that are and were police officers. The cop on the street generally supports personal gun ownership. It is the desk jocky, the pencil pushers, the ‘police officers’ with political agendas that support various forms of gun control. FOP is such an organization. They only have a political agenda.

November 13, 2008 @ 7:26 pm | Comment

Dimbo, before the invention of cctv, nobody was ever arrested in your country?

Duh, and no one ever got away with crimes either?

As I said at the start (and you completely ignored), terrorist groups in Ireland were able to plan, execute and get away with crimes on a regular basis. There is no reason to believe things would be any different in Tibet should the situation escalate there.

I suggest you put your spade down…

November 13, 2008 @ 7:31 pm | Comment

Bert, please give it up. I have fairly high tolerance levels for most things; love of guns isn’t one of them. Everyone who is against the idea that we should all be packing arms as we go to school and walk through the neighborhood streets has “a political agenda.” Those who love guns and fantasize about them in their sleep and think they make a suitable gift for someone opening a new bank account – those people, of course, have no political agenda and are just sincere average Joes. Only in America.

Living in Beijing, there are so many times a day when I think, “Only in China.” But when it comes to a gun-loving culture and the constant stories of family members shot by other angry family members, and of road rage culminating in shootings, and of children accidentally blowing their or their friend’s brains out with the gun they found in daddy’s desk, I think, Only in America.

Bert, we’ve been through this before. If you want to argue in favor of everybody owning a gun I respectfully ask you to take it somewhere else. There are lots of chat rooms about the joys of handguns you can hang out in. Thanks for letting me have the last word. :-)

November 13, 2008 @ 11:14 pm | Comment

http://www.prisonplanet.com/celente-predicts-revolution-food-riots-tax-rebellions-by-2012.html

Gerald Celente is going around making the above predictions.

Grab onto your seat folks, “funny times” is coming.

I wouldn’t worry too much about what the Chinese nationalists do, I’d worry about what happens back home.

November 14, 2008 @ 1:41 am | Comment

Don’t waste your time Pseudorandom, nobody here is paying attention to this information.

I’ve learned my lesson, the hard way.

November 14, 2008 @ 2:34 am | Comment

But thank you for letting me know about this Gerald Celente, I did not know that extrapolating on trends was an actual profession. Interesting.

He’s a very good example of what I meant, when I was referring to be able to understand the “big picture” of things and events in my previous and generally ignored posts.

People sadly are stuck in the present. Comforting it is.

November 14, 2008 @ 2:45 am | Comment

Everyone who is against the idea that we should all be packing arms as we go to school and walk through the neighborhood streets has “a political agenda.”

Richard, and I suppose that the figures that say you’re more likely to shoot a loved-one than an intruder are made up too!

November 14, 2008 @ 5:12 am | Comment

Well, I like to apologize to KevinnolongerinPudong, since if I were to believe that America is on the verge of revolution + riots + NWO end-of-the-world, then certainly it is possible that China will return to the chaos of the cultural revolution. So yeah, my bad man.

I’m just not 100% about all this. Perhaps some call this denial. It’s too crazy!!!

November 14, 2008 @ 6:33 am | Comment

Raj,

You are comparing apples with oranges. What makes you think the Tibetan people will pull a northern Ireland? The differences between these two regions cannot be more drastic.

For beginners, there is not an independent Tibetan nation. Terrorism is universally condemned and shied away by mainstream political entities after 911. There is no soil for the IRA anymore. India is too savvy to openly support future Tibetan terrorism there is any. Plus, China is way more determined and brutal than the UK in dealing with terrorists. The average Tibetan people have already realized that there is no place for violence.

All that turning Lhasa into Belfast is just your wet dream.

November 15, 2008 @ 1:26 am | Comment

Apples and oranges, they all come from a tree.. Think about that for a second.

November 15, 2008 @ 5:35 am | Comment

Silly me… I almost forgot about the G20 convention…

http://i.pbase.com/o6/06/642806/1/70625197.GsvSHKoG.DSC_00621.JPG

Sleep well, all of you.

November 15, 2008 @ 5:47 am | Comment

treesiter

What makes you think the Tibetan people will pull a northern Ireland?

I never said they would. I was talking about law enforcement and the fact that catching terrorists is not as easy as you think, especially if the State is seen as the enemy which was the case amongst Catholics in Northern Ireland and is the case in regards to Tibetans.

There is no soil for the IRA anymore.

The end of terrorism was down to the peace agreement and other things such as ensuring Catholics were not second-class citizens. It had nothing to do with what happened in America. The Good Friday agreement was signed in 1998, you fool!

there is not an independent Tibetan nation

But there used to be, just as there used to be an independent united Ireland.

The average Tibetan people have already realized that there is no place for violence.

Really? I guess I must have missed them lining up at the Police stations to report the rioteers….

Most people with a real understanding of Tibet would tell you that the youngsters are getting restless. The older ones might reject violence but they’re not going to turn them in either. And when they’re gone there won’t be anyone to hold the hot-heads back.

All that turning Lhasa into Belfast is just your wet dream.

Yes, it is a dream of mine. Belfast is a much happier place than Lhasa at the moment. There is a sense of hope in Northern Ireland and has been for some years. Whereas Tibet is like a powder-keg waiting to go off.

November 15, 2008 @ 7:28 am | Comment

John, ok, how about we do the same to Chinese living overseas on some pretext? How would you like that, huh? An eye for an eye and all that.

November 15, 2008 @ 7:39 pm | Comment

Chinese don’t go round running riot in the west

Probably because they’re not treated like second-class citizens. Perhaps we should treat Chinese like shit too, wait for just a number to get rowdy and then punish all of them.

Tibetans on the other hand are trouble making, backward losers who should be left alone

Except that they’re not left alone – Han Chinese tell them how to live their lives.

And I’m not sure how the actions of a few should lead to extermination of all of them. If Chinese start to get a bit troublesome here should we kill all of them?

November 15, 2008 @ 7:58 pm | Comment

Adios Mongol Warrior…

November 15, 2008 @ 8:26 pm | Comment

This is so beautifully said, and it’s exactly what I meant when I said that anything that man can envision can become true. Kudos to Gibson, a true visionary of this world…

“The Future of Science Fiction? We’re living in it. Those “Future History” charts in the back of every Robert A Heinlein paperback, when I was about 14, had the early 21st century tagged as the “Crazy Years”. He had an American theocratic dictatorship happening about then. I hope we miss that one. Otherwise, I’m assuming these are those years.”

“The single most useful thing I’ve learned from science fiction is that every present moment, always, is someone else’s past and someone else’s future.”

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026821.600-scifi-special-william-gibson.html

November 15, 2008 @ 8:39 pm | Comment

“Perhaps we should treat Chinese like shit too, wait for just a number to get rowdy and then punish all of them.”

Maybe you can tell that to the indians.

Raj, get on the program. Your prime minister is on his knees begging for China’s money.

November 15, 2008 @ 11:34 pm | Comment

Maybe you can tell that to the indians.

If you’re talking about Indians from India, they have their own country. If you’re talking about Native Americans, that’s for the Americans to deal with. But at least they can vote, express themselves in whatever way they want, etc, which is more than Tibetans.

Raj, get on the program. Your prime minister is on his knees begging for China’s money.

No, he’s begging the world to come up with an international solution that can prolong his political life. But hopefully he will be evicted at the next election so we won’t have to worry about him anymore.

November 16, 2008 @ 4:21 am | Comment

Seeding for the mass…

“Still, most nations, including the United States, have acknowledged that a new world order has emerged and that the developing world should have a larger say in international organizations.”

http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/detail.jsp?key=316209&rc=po&p=1&all=1

November 16, 2008 @ 4:50 am | Comment

But at least they can vote, express themselves in whatever way they want, etc, which is more than Tibetans.

Raj – that’s one dumb comment – they get the vote after being made about one percent of the population and herded into reservations all their land stripped from them.

Same can apply to Australian aborigines, Canadian Innuit, Alaskan Eskimos, and New Zealand Maori.

I can say at least the Tibetans are still 80% of the population in Tibet, still speak Tibetan, still follow Tibetan traditions – unlike Native Americans.
They have Tibetan print media, dual track Tibetan-Mandarin schooling, affirmative action to get into universities.

November 16, 2008 @ 4:53 am | Comment

Woooo, people are now speaking about Bretton Wood II, Sheee, Shee, go away Oab, go away… Now let’s talk about tibet and Taiwan or what palin will wear tomorrow…

You damn “crazies”, let us sleep in peace.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/14/business/summit.php

November 16, 2008 @ 6:13 am | Comment

“It feels like we’re waiting for the new king to arrive,” said Johnson of MIT.”

This is very powerful to say the least…

November 16, 2008 @ 6:23 am | Comment

“Perhaps we should treat Chinese like shit too, wait for just a number to get rowdy and then punish all of them.”

Raj,

Tell that to your indian brothers who to this day still worship the union jack like god, China dont give a shit to Britain

November 16, 2008 @ 1:40 pm | Comment

Henry

they get the vote after being made about one percent of the population and herded into reservations all their land stripped from them

Which is why I said it’s the problem of the Americans, not mine.

I can say at least the Tibetans are still 80% of the population in Tibet, still speak Tibetan, still follow Tibetan traditions – unlike Native Americans. They have Tibetan print media, dual track Tibetan-Mandarin schooling, affirmative action to get into universities.

You neglect to mention that their leader is not Tibetan (and I’m NOT talking about the Dalai Lama), non-Tibetan migrants contine to enter Tibet and settle there and Tibetan concerns that they’ll become a minority are ignored, Tibetans cannot practice religion/culture as they see fit, have NO free speech, etc. What’s the point of having dual-print media if they can’t print what they want? Similarly what’s the point of having Tibetan taught in some schools if the curriculum is set by the Chinese?

++++

Treesiter

Tell that to your indian brothers who to this day still worship the union jack like god

I’m not Indian (why are you so obsessed about that?) and I can’t help it if some Indians see good things about the Empire. Does it annoy you that British Imperialism is sometimes remembered fondly, whereas Chinese Imperialism never/rarely is?

China dont give a shit to Britain

Obviously not, otherwise you would have bothered to learn English grammar.

November 16, 2008 @ 5:51 pm | Comment

Raj, our new friend “Henry” was putting up those obscene messages yesterday, and calling you a “curry-muncher.” He’s banned.

November 16, 2008 @ 6:26 pm | Comment

Richard, thanks for letting me know.

Personally I like curry – who doesn’t? Even the Chinese do. Are they curry-munchers as well?

November 16, 2008 @ 8:13 pm | Comment

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.