Obama Victory Thread

Mission accomplished.

Update: Looks like Pennsylvania, so key to any hopes McCain may have had for an upset, has gone to Obama. It also looks like we’re going to have our landslide, both in the presidential and congressional races. You can watch the projections of popular and electoral vote tallies for each state here. Excellent site. Looks like it will soon be time to gloat.

Update 2: Apparently Obama has just won Ohio. We can now invoke the L word. Ladies and gentlemen, it’s a landslide.

Update 3: Malkin, Rush and their henchmen are going ape-shit over the latest Ashley Judd-style hoax, namely that armed “Black Panthers” are intimidating voters in Philadelphia. The story is nicely debunked here. Listen to the Rush clip. Look at the clip Malkin posted. And the photos she’s posted of menacing black guards. It is pure race baiting, stoking fears of black thugs running the country if Obama wins.

One security guard holding a billy club, and it’s instantly turned into a metaphor for the black police state to come, blasted through the pipes of the wingnutosphere. Just like Ashley Judd, beaten and scarred by an out-of-control, pro-Obama nigro. Fear and racism, the only cards in their pitiful deck.

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I’ll keep this up at the top until Obama’s ascension is official. Meanwhile, I can feel a heavy yoke being lifted off of America’s shoulders already. Eight years of madness are coming to an end. (And for anyone who harbors any doubts as to whether it was madness, please go here for an eloquent review of what we’ve been through, penned by a former Bush fanatic apologist admirer.) It’s time. We’re actually there. 20 or so hours.

Talk about anything – but only after you vote for Obama.

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Richard Burger is the author of Behind the Red Door: Sex in China, an exploration of China's sexual revolution and its clash with traditional Chinese values.

The Discussion: 138 Comments

Great post Richard…..but you ruined it slightly for me at the end with that “god bless america” That is really grating on international ears.

Don’t mean to knock the rest of it though. Captures the moment nicely.

November 5, 2008 @ 11:34 pm | Comment

You know, I had doubts about the last line, and was aware of the sentimentality and of how annoyed it always made e when I heard it, but it just sort of appeared on the screen. I edited it slightly just seconds ago.

November 5, 2008 @ 11:38 pm | Comment

Beautifully said Richard, I agree with you a 100%.

“We can already feel it – America longs to be a kinder, gentler nation once again.”

Ever heard about the compliment sandwich ? The more I look into the US politic system and its impact on the world and the more I think it’s a perpetual mimic of this concept, only applied on a larger scheme.

The painful political moments and icons happens when America needs to show its teeth, the graceful moments appear when America is all understanding and sweet and need to compliment/spread hope.

Two main parties, one goal. The division is in the mass and the sleepers, but not in the higher spheres. They are well aware of this.

That was my cynical comment, but there is one spot inside of me that really wants to believe in what Obama could mean on the surface for the whole world. I am dreaming of peace and harmony as well, and I really hope that I am wrong in most of my visions and comments. I hope for the bright side of things.

Peace to this earth and all of us. We deserve it.

November 5, 2008 @ 11:40 pm | Comment

Thanks “Oab.” I just put that whole long sermon up as a separate post, and hope it doesn’t confuse things much.

November 5, 2008 @ 11:44 pm | Comment

Wow!! Way to underline the point, Ferin. As I said, China has a long way to go. Opening up policy? One world, one dream?

No it doesn’t. East Asia comprises only a tiny sliver of the world’s land, allowing lots of outsiders in would be beyond stupid. There already are millions and millions of Russians settled in parts of Asia they simply don’t belong. If they ever start swarming in, the Chinese will no longer have a homeland.

The measure of China’s progress will be when they no longer take offense at that thought.

Again, this is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. Why would China give up its only seat of power to some undeserving, opportunistic foreigner? Don’t you have enough land, stolen resources and power?

It’s not going to happen. If it did, I would kill him personally.

November 6, 2008 @ 3:35 am | Comment

Anyway despite the fact that I’m spiteful and cynical I can’t help but feel happy for those 100+ year old black Americans that get to see how things have ended up today.

November 6, 2008 @ 3:37 am | Comment

Richard – you will have to snap out of it sooner or later. The only real achievement to Obama’s name so far is the ability to be an effective marketer for himself. His speeches ring hollow because he has never done or achieved anything of note, made any great sacrifices -apart from hopping on the racial grievances bandwagon.

I get the feeling that Americans are taking part in some feel good movie, where after a white man (Bush) having brought disaster and turmoil to his nation and the world, is deposed by a saintly black sage who will soon fix everthing and make everything good and everyone lives happily ever after.

Fact is real life is simply not like that. In modern stable societies you don’t want sages, orators, dreamers or ideologues to lead – you need hard working, intelligent and selfless leaders who can deal with detail and the nitty gritty of economic, social and foreign policy. John McCain would have been such a leader – and in fact has been such a leader his entire life. That America at this time of such great uncertainty chooses to elect on ideologue with a self-declared mission to implement sweeping ‘change’ is quite frightening.

China had its full of this type of thing only 40 years ago. Now thankfully it is rule of technocrats and engineers – and look how far China has progressed since they put ‘expert’ over ‘red’ instead of the other way round.

Obama’s young fan base with their hypnotised star-gazing eyes are too stupid to realize that it has been Bush who has been keeping them safe these past seven years, that McCain made unimaginable sacrifices for his country that should have made him an absolute certainty for president. Americans have put the need to feel virtuous (about their non-racism), the desire for celebrity over the real needs of the nation and the world.

November 6, 2008 @ 4:45 am | Comment

He changed the face of American politics and showed the world we are not a nation of self-deluded automatons who can be swayed to insanity by the snake-oil salesmen

Look at the faces of those young people out celebrating last night – and then wind back the clock 40 years ago in Tiananmen square – thats what immediately sprang to my mind. Those young people were the very definition of “self-deluded automatons.”

November 6, 2008 @ 4:53 am | Comment

O BUMMER…A BLACK MAN IN THE WHITEHOUSE!
The Republicans put up an old man with no chance of winning.
And Obama has no chance of fixing the mess Americas in.
The Republicans are nobodys fools…..

November 6, 2008 @ 6:30 am | Comment

Mongol Warrior,

I think Obama is exactly the kind of “hard working, intelligent and selfless leaders who can deal with detail and the nitty gritty of economic, social and foreign policy” who you described. I was not a big fan of Obama when he started his campain. But seeing how he ran his campain (systematic, disciplined, non-ideological way), I think he would make a great president. I think McCain lost because his campain was erratic and undisciplined campain.

November 6, 2008 @ 7:41 am | Comment

ferin,

No it doesn’t. East Asia comprises only a tiny sliver of the world’s land, allowing lots of outsiders in would be beyond stupid. There already are millions and millions of Russians settled in parts of Asia they simply don’t belong. If they ever start swarming in, the Chinese will no longer have a homeland.

I guess you would wholeheartedly support the Russians throwing out all the Chinese immigrants streaming into Siberia and settling there. Also, I am glad you support the Tibetans throwing out the foreigners from Beijing who come to settle and rule Tibet. Let Tibet be ruled by Tibetans and have a homeland for themselves.

November 6, 2008 @ 7:46 am | Comment

I guess you would wholeheartedly support the Russians throwing out all the Chinese immigrants streaming into Siberia and settling there.

MT: this was land that was part of China and populated by East Asians up until the unequal treaties forced on China by Russia in the 19th Century.

As for splitting China from Tibet and giving 1/4 of China’s territory to just 2million of China’s 1.3billion – which is what the Dalai wants – if that is not an extreme form of ethnic cleansing I don’t know wtf is. In fact it would be a further dispossession of the yellow race in favour of a few Western annointed acceptable yellows like that fraud the Dalai Lama. End result would be self absorbed eggheads like Richard Gere allowed in Tibet, but not a Chinese worker wanting to improve his lot in his own motherland.

China resisting splittism is not for just keeping China togetther – that is of secondary importance – what is of paramount importance is preventing upon the encroachment of the natural living space of the yellow race, much of which it has been stripped these past two centuries.

November 6, 2008 @ 8:00 am | Comment

Mongol Warrior,

Before 1950 there were very few Han Chinese in Tibet, and Tibet belonged to Tibetans. What right do the Hans have to that land? Tibet didn’t belong to Han Chinese. The occupation of Tibet is causing the change of ethnic makeup of Tibet. I don’t understand where ethnic cleansing comes in there.

Btw, Siberia was mostly empty before the Russians came there.

Your problem is that you think that the “yellow race” owns land which are the homelands of other people.

November 6, 2008 @ 8:22 am | Comment

America is a nation based on ideas, not ethnicity or race. That is why I think in the long run America would do well in spite of the current problems. You cannot hope to move to China or Japan and become Chinese or Japanese. But you can immigrate of America and become American. That is the reason why I think America will continue to attract the smartest people from around the world to go and settle there, and will win the global war for talent for the foreseeable future.

After a country achieves a certain level of development (ie, after you have gone through the easy stage of development involving giving everybody houses, TVs, cars etc.) you need a highly innovative workforce to develop further. It would be harder for a country founded on race to compete.

November 6, 2008 @ 8:36 am | Comment

MT: just total up the land controlled by whites in the world and the land controlled by yellows. There were few Han in the area that the Dalai calls Tibet? I don’t think so. Handing back 1/4 of China’s landmass to a 2 million Tibetans would be akin to ceding all of the Eastern and South eastern United states to Cherokee descended Americans – and telling all non Cherokee Americans to pack their bags- that would be unreasonable in itself but there are a hell of a lot more Cherokee descended Americans than there are Tibetans.

You say Siberia was mostly empty before the Russians arrived – well so was the region the Dalai Lama claims as Tibet.

But I suppose this is getting a bit off the topic here.

November 6, 2008 @ 9:40 am | Comment

Jesus Mongol Warrior your obsession with race would have made a good Nazi if you had been born at different times.

November 6, 2008 @ 9:45 am | Comment

Mongol Warrior,

You are the one obsessed with diving up land based on race. I don’t believe in having nations based on race.

What is your argument? Races with higher population density have to right occupy homelands of other people. By your logic, China should give some of its land to Japan (which has a much higher population density). Oh wait. Japan tried that in the early 20th century and I don’t think many Chinese liked it.

November 6, 2008 @ 9:56 am | Comment

What is your argument? Races with higher population density have to right occupy homelands of other people.

MT: I never said that. You implied it here:

Btw, Siberia was mostly empty before the Russians came there.

You implication being that it is no big deal that Russia occupied the far East given its original low population density.

I said the same principle could be applied to the Tibetan situation.

Fact is Tibet is part of China, recognized as such by virtually all nations round the world, was recognized as part of China very explicitly in the early 1940s by the US, was claimed not only by the communists but also by Jiang Jieshis Nationalists and even that dog Dalai Lama admits to as such.

So end of story.

MT – find some other cause to occupy your spare time.

November 6, 2008 @ 11:11 am | Comment

Mongol Warrior,

I am just pointing out your hypocrisy. You are okay with Han people moving into Tibet and changing the racial makeup, while opposed to any immigration of foreigners into China.

My position is simple. I think all countries should be multiracial.

If Tibetans had a reasonable chance to choose their own leaders or if a Tibetan had a chance to become ruler in Beijing, then it would be fine. China would then be a multi-ethnic country. Since that remains impossible, what is happening in Tibet is a Han occupation of Tibet, and using that occupation to change the ethnic makeup of Tibet. That is a violation of the Geneva conventions.

Btw, name calling doesn’t make you a strong debater or help change minds.

November 6, 2008 @ 12:01 pm | Comment

“My position is simple. I think all countries should be multiracial.”

I Agree, and this will happen in the future anyways, waste of time to debate about this.

November 6, 2008 @ 12:17 pm | Comment

MT: where did I say that I was opposed to immigration of foreigners into China?

November 6, 2008 @ 12:32 pm | Comment

Mongol Warrior,

This thread started from statements made by ferin like:
The CCP is making a huge mistake giving citizenship to non-East Asians.

I assumed you agreed with that sentiment, since you replied to my post arguing against ferin. If you don’t agree with it, I apologize for assuming you did.

November 6, 2008 @ 12:56 pm | Comment

MT: thanks. apology accepted.

by the way here is something interesting:

Tibet is part of China

Lord Patten welcomed the 29th October statement by British Foreign Secretary David Miliband, changing British government policy on Tibet.

He said it had been little known technicality and “a quaint eccentricity” that Britain had previously recognized Chinese suzerainty, but not sovereignty, over Tibet. The Foreign Secretary’s statement had made it clear that Britain recognizes that Tibet is part of China. “I commend Mr Miliband for bringing Britain into line with the rest of humanity,” said Patten, noting that not even the Dalai Lama had shared Britain’s previous position.

November 6, 2008 @ 1:03 pm | Comment

Oab,

There is nothing wrong with dreaming big. But the EU shows how hard it is to stitch together a multi-ethnic entity.

Btw, nation states based on ethnicity and race is a relatively new phenomenon, starting in the early 20th century.

November 6, 2008 @ 1:06 pm | Comment

Mongol warrior,

In my eyes history is not the crucial factor in Tibet. If it were, then Britain could claim that India belongs to the British Empire. China has to decide whether Tibetans are full citizens of China. If they are not, then China is occupying Tibet. The current situation is similar to what Israel is doing in Palestine (no self govt for Palestinians, and changing the ethnic makeup during an occupation).

November 6, 2008 @ 1:14 pm | Comment

MT: multiracialism, multiculturalism should not be goals in themselves. Diversity should not be a goal. Treating people fairly and in a non-discriminatory way is enough.

America by the way it was founded, its history is rightly a nation of common ideals.In a similar way Canada, Australia, New Zealand were established on lands that were originally occupied by indigenous peoples and where current populations are mainly descended from successive waves of European and more recently coloured immigration. So these places naturally adhere to the principle of Jus Soli – you were born there so you are of there.This principle is correct, morally and practically for these of countries.

However some ancient European nations and Asian nations do have the right to maintain a certain base level traditional populations which define the nature of the countries to which they give their names. That is why people of German descent have certain rights to German citizenship over non-German descended people. Many European countries and Asian countries dispense citizenship based partly on bloodlines. That is why anyone with a single British grandparent can become British. This is like inheritance. But nothing to do with race or racism.
Poland filled with Chinese people (or Italians) would cease to be Poland. Japan filled with Chinese people or Nigerians would cease to be Japan in the way we know it.

So just like your concerns for the Tibetan people come from your perceptions of their being ethnically displaced by Han (actually an absurd point), but continuing on along the trajectory of your argument it could be argued that Chinese people, Yellow people have every right to their little piece of real estate where they are now without having to share it with white people who have already eaten up so much of their territory and resources both in the not too distant past and now.

But America is an entirely different situation.

November 6, 2008 @ 1:24 pm | Comment

China has to decide whether Tibetans are full citizens of China.

Tibetans are full citizens of China. They get a whole heap of affirmative action, govt support for cultural and language preservation. China desires all within her borders to accept that they are full citizens of China. Problem is some Western shit stirrers foment problems and try to destabilize things. That is the problem.

November 6, 2008 @ 1:31 pm | Comment

Mongol warrior,

There are two options:

A. You believe China is an ethnic/race based nation state. In this case China needs to get out of Tibet and leave the Tibetan homeland to the Tibetans (ie, end the occupation). The Tibetans (and the Han Chinese themselves) consider Han and Tibetan people to be from differnet ethnicities.

B. You believe China is a multiethnic state. In this case there shouldn’t be anything special in China for “yellow people”. All ethnicities should be treated the same. This include having policies whereby a Tibetan has an equal chance to become president of China as a Han. Immigration should not be based on ethnicity. This doesn’t preclude immigration policies which allow somebody whose a grandparent was a Chinese citizen to become a citizen. The crucial thing is that it shouldn’t be race based.

What is illogical is choosing one or the other depending on your convenience.

November 6, 2008 @ 1:40 pm | Comment

Mongol warrior,

Tibetans are full citizens of China

Right. And Santa Claus is real.

Why hasn’t there ever been a non-Han CP secretary in Tibet?

November 6, 2008 @ 1:44 pm | Comment

Mongol warrior,

Problem is some Western shit stirrers foment problems and try to destabilize things.

How many “Western shit stirrers” were involved in the recent riots in Tibet?

November 6, 2008 @ 1:48 pm | Comment

MT: It is obvious. A and B are not mutually exclusive. China is a multi-ethnic state of ethnicities which already reside there and have done so for centuries. This includes Han, Tibetans, Mongolians, Uighurs etc. Maybe in future when it is rich and powerful it will be a magnet for immigrants from around the world in the way the West is now. But at the moment it is a moot point – because hardly anyone wants to go there at the moment.

The crucial thing is that it shouldn’t be race based. Correct. Ancestry based is different from race based. Germany say, letting in German descended people is different from Germany saying whites only. Two entirely different things. China likewise does not have a race based policy.

Tibetan has an equal chance to become president of China as a Han
It is unlikely that we will see a Tibetan become president of China in our lifetimes. Tibetans are about 4million? out of 1.3 billion. So based on numbers alone chances of a Tibetan president are very small. However the chance of any individual Tibetan becoming president is unlikely to be less than that of any individual Han – given similar backgrounds and language skills. Problem is that the Chinese government in being over-earnest in preserving the Tibetan langauage and providing a dual track schooling system has actually disadvantaged many Tibetans by rendering them insufficiently fluent in Chinese. Tibetans are of course not dispersed throughout China as blacks are in the US, but concentrated in a single region – so they are disadvantaged, not by race, but by living in a remote, relatively backward region in the same way that Appalachian hillbillies are. The situation is the same for most of China’s other minorities. How many Appalachian hillbillies have become president MT?

In fact the more the Chinese government has propped up local indigenous languages, schools, bilingualism and local traditions the less likely you will see minorities in the upper echelons of the Chinese government. Barack Obama would never have got to where he was had he not been fully acculturated into the American mainstream and if he could only speak halting English.

November 6, 2008 @ 2:21 pm | Comment

How many “Western shit stirrers” were involved in the recent riots in Tibet?

The Dalai Lama would never have had the clout that he now apparently does have had not the CIA sponsored his insurrection in 1959 and supported him for well over twenty years. And he is feted by Hollywood and mainly Westerners today. Because they are natural shit-stirrers. If the West got their noses out of Tibet, problems there would cease.

How come I don’t see too many Cubans, Nigerians, Russians, Romanians and Thais getting all steamed up over Tibet? But many British, Americans and Canadians – so it is obviously Western shit-stirring that sustains the problem there today.

November 6, 2008 @ 2:27 pm | Comment

Mongol warrior,

You said:
what is of paramount importance is preventing upon the encroachment of the natural living space of the yellow race, much of which it has been stripped these past two centuries.

How does the above square with your view of China as race neutral? You saying China is for the yellow race is as obnoxious as Germans says Germany is for whites.

If you think Tibetans are treated fairly by the Chinese state, you should be joking. You haven’t answered my question on why the CP secretary (who controls all the security apparatus in Tibet) is always a Han.

In my opinion, the only way to have a non-discriminatory multi-ethnic country is to have democracy and private property rights. In Tibet (as else where in China), all land is owned by the state, which is controlled by Han. In effect the Tibetans don’t even own the land the live in. (A similar problem exists in Israel, where all the land is owned either by the state or Jewish organizations. Very little is privately owned.)

November 6, 2008 @ 2:37 pm | Comment

Mongol Warrior,

The Dalai Lama would never have had the clout that he now apparently does have had not the CIA sponsored his insurrection in 1959 and supported him for well over twenty years

If the West had armed the Tibetans properly there would have been an independent Tibet. (Russia did it well and we have and independent Mongolia)

If the West got their noses out of Tibet, problems there would cease.

In other words, the West should look away so that the CCP can murder or jail the dissidents, take the land and settle Han people, and everybody would be happy!

November 6, 2008 @ 2:43 pm | Comment

All things considered, an Obama win is preferable over a McCain win (mainly because of the Palin problem). However that does not mean that Obama is not an arrogant prat – or are most Americans similarly so self-absorbed that they are oblivious to it in other people? I can provide links to a bucketful of pics which shows him arrogantly strutting around. But just read his victory speech – enough to make one vomit. He considers himself the embodiment of ‘the change we seek’ – haha – as if he is the God’s newest revelation. And just the title of his book “the Audacity of Hope” – what the hell does that mean? Does that not make you want to cringe Richard? Or is it simply a cultural thing where the cringe threshold of Americans is that much higher than that of most other people, Westerners included?

Does not the fact that he wrote a book (something about ‘dreams of fathers?’ -haha) about himself during the time he was a nobody strike no one here as quite weird? Or does every American believe really he is an actor in some Hollywood movie where he believes his own life has significance to the world in a measure far far greater than actual reality- it seems so.

November 6, 2008 @ 2:48 pm | Comment

last comment was not meant to be posted here but belongs to the other thread

November 6, 2008 @ 2:58 pm | Comment

As part of “affirmative action” Tibetans also get beaten, tortured with cattle prods, and tossed into prisons or buried in holes for carry a picture of a monk.

They also get to watch government officials with connections and Han business men make money from their natural resources and their culture while they are unemployed.

November 7, 2008 @ 1:56 am | Comment

Gee, looks like we kind of veered off topic here. Thread closed. Last word: Obama’s victory is a wonderful thing because it was time to clean the stables. It is the end of a very bad era. Will Obama be a good president? No one can ever answer that question about any new president, though he surely can’t be worse than what we’ve got, and based on what I’ve seen in the debates and read by those who’ve worked with him and covered him in the media and who know him personally, his approach to complex issues is strikingly different to that of Bush, or of McCain and Palin. There is nothing wrong with feeing some hope and optimism, and attempts by racists like Mongol Warrior to smear Obama in advance won’t get anywhere. Palin and the McCain team have already smeared him as much as is humanly possible. Unlike with Palin, where the complaints were actually based on what she said and did, the ones against Obama were amorphous and hopelessly circumstantial, but most often downright false, fabrications plucked from the collective Republican rectum. Let’s hope Obama brings some competence to the White House at a time when America faces the greatest test of any of our lifetimes.

November 7, 2008 @ 9:33 am | Comment

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