George Soros: China Rising, US Declining

Funny, how what sounded like such a crazy notion to some just a year ago now seems to be pretty much accepted as a given the world over. Soros saying as much gives the point – obvious as it always was to the prescient – added weight.

China will be the biggest winner of the current financial crisis, US billionaire and philanthropist George Soros said. The financier gave an interview to Germany’s Die Welt, in which he told of the roots of the crisis and said that the mortgage bubble only triggered the process, which entailed the economic collapse. The businessman also explained the reason why the Bush’s administration proved to be unable to cope with the crisis.

The United States and a part of Europe will have nationalized banks and huge debts. China will become the new global financial empire….

“The USA’s influence has already begun to decline. For the past 25 years, we have been running a constant current account deficit. The Chinese and the oil-producing countries have been running a surplus. We have consumed more than we produced. While we have run up debt, they have acquired wealth with their savings. Increasingly, the Chinese will own a lot more of the world because they will be converting their dollar reserves and US government bonds into real assets. The power shift towards Asia will occur as a result of the sins which America committed during the recent 25 years,” Soros said.

You can ignore Soros at your own risk. His track record has been nothing short of astonishing. And for my right-wing friends who fell for the Fox News smears of Soros as a deranged leftist, all I can say is do your homework. Soros is a man of principle, a great philanthropist and a huge friend to liberal causes. Yes, he has a few – very few – skeletons in his closet (insider trading in 1988) like other billionaires do, but all in all he is a hero, and a role model for other billionaires.

We all know how much China sucks in so many ways. Most of us also know what an amazing country it is, how splendid many of its people are and what promise it holds for the future. Right or wrong, fair or unfair, we are in decline while Asia in general and China in particular are rising. That is not a judgment call on whether China should hold this honor. It’s just the way it is, like it or not. And in a lot of ways I don’t like it. It’s just what’s so. They were smarter than we were. I have to hand it to them.

______________

Richard Burger is the author of Behind the Red Door: Sex in China, an exploration of China's sexual revolution and its clash with traditional Chinese values.

The Discussion: 146 Comments

It’s because your site is actually in the spotlight. It’s attracting much more attention than what you think (not in a negative way). For example, the reason I am posting here is because I want to connect with people sharing similar experiences. We live in a strange era.

A world shaping era. And every single bit of information is part of this whole. I would never post here if it was pointless.

And no, I am not Nanheyangrouchuan, I am just “connecting” the dots again.

October 21, 2008 @ 12:57 am | Comment

Do you think that 50 cents are a Chinese invention ? (not referring to myself) it’s been here forever.

October 21, 2008 @ 1:01 am | Comment

And one last thing before going to bed…

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS/10/20/china.economy/index.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7679679.stm

As I stated previously in another thread, before the bailout when I was saying: this is just the beginning. Mark my words: You ain’t see nothing yet.

CNN is a very useful tool of US propaganda, when it reaches this level, you can expect the worse. From obscure blogs to the mass.

Enjoy.

October 21, 2008 @ 1:15 am | Comment

And if you skipped my lenghty post, read it again.

October 21, 2008 @ 1:20 am | Comment

Ok, I know… I am spamming.. But F***.. This kind of headline is making me sick.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/20/campaign.wrap/index.html

McCain, Palin: Obama tax plan will ‘spread the wealth’

What the fuck is wrong with that ? As Human beings, this is the perfect example of greed an decadence. The US sadden me so much it’s beyond ridiculous.

Can somebody argue about this headline ? How in the world can you justify this sentence in any other way than showing you are a perfect greedy and selfish ass****.

October 21, 2008 @ 1:48 am | Comment

Joe the plumber can explain it to you. Ever since the boston tea party and the whiskey rebellion wealthy people have been enlisting crackpots and bums to “keep the money they worked so hard for from the government.

Joe is not really a plumber, nor does he do such a good job paying taxes, in fact he probably does not work all that hard. looks more like a prior military service alcoholic hired by the RNC to rally the base to protect rich people from having to pay taxes.

you see when the government gives your tax money to lehman brothers as a bailout that is sound economic policy. when the government taxes lehman brothers that is “class warfare” and that is bad.

it’s all laid out in the bible, just ask sarah.

October 21, 2008 @ 2:33 am | Comment

it’s like you either don’t see the horrors or that you excuse them.

You don’t see them either. You read Falun Gong newspapers and then add your own “spice” to it.

Black wednesday was brought about first and foremost by insistence on maintaining the peg to the Deutchemark beyond the point where it was sustainable or useful, Soros merely profitted from this mistake.

At last, one honest person who won’t just blame everyone else for their own mistakes.

Where are the numbers and studies to support these claims ? Is there anybody here that can point me to solid data about this (honest request) ?

Everywhere you’re deliberately not looking. The CCP itself says China’s GDP will be 1/3rd of America’s in 2020, or something. So you can believe them out of your hatred for the “yellow peril” (a fixture in American society and white supremacist thought) or maintain that they are always liars.

the humiliting military losses to Japan, the US, the British, the Mongols, the stunning and massive failure of the Communist way of life and their new embrace of capitalism, the odious repression of the Uiguars

It wasn’t “humiliating” to anyone except the bureaucrats and overlords who took “international face” seriously. The average person in China, be they Han Chinese or not, suffered tremendously at the hands at foreign powers AND their own government. It’s no comfort to be told by a Japanese nationalist that “Mao killed parts of your family too” when the IJA killed the other half.

The main thing that “Chinese nationalists” are angered about is not your incredible stupidity, bias, or ignorance, but the fact that you will not give them a shred of genuine sympathy and instead regard them as a) stupid children that need the guiding hand of “the West” or b) evil maniacs bent on world domination.

Discourse with such idiots is pointless. As for Mongolia “humiliating” China, I doubt it. The Mongolians were confined to the cruel steppes of East Asia for thousands of years. They raided China perpetually since pre-history and never really made inroads until 800 years ago. Even then, Khwarezm and the Tangut Empire faced such horrible genocides that China’s fate was much less harsh my comparison. The only thing that saved Japan (which was a backwater up until the 1600s) was either the kamikaze or Chinese/Korean sabotage.

October 21, 2008 @ 3:23 am | Comment

What are Uiguars btw, relatives of the jaguars? Stegosaurs?

I love how none of these anti-China (they call themselves pro-Minority) kids can ever spell Uighur. It’s always wigger, uighua, or uygger.

Sounds like all you know about them is some bullshit propaganda piece by a US news agency.

October 21, 2008 @ 3:26 am | Comment

@Raj –

“He led the run – how could he not be even partly responsible? . . . And you think that principled men make money out of others’ suffering?”

He made a profit by making a wise bet on how Sterling was going to trend – it’s called market economics, Conservatives like myself believe in it, you might want to join us some day. As I’ve said before, and as the historical record shows, the peg became less and less viable after the reunification of Germany lead to inflationary government spending in that country, Soros merely called the UK government on it’s inability to maintain the peg, the people who followed his bet against Sterling would have lost billions along with everyone else had they not shorted the pound – Soros included. Now, the UK government might have got off the peg sooner, or they could have sorted out a gradual transition, but by staying on it they brought about the events of black wednesday. Essentially the peg was great as a short-term confidence building measure, but rubbish as a long-term strategy – and that’s what the market exposed.

October 21, 2008 @ 5:43 am | Comment

OMG!!!!!

October 21, 2008 @ 1:57 pm | Comment

Published on Monday, October 20, 2008 by TruthDig.com
The Idiots Who Rule America
by Chris Hedges

Our oligarchic class is incompetent at governing, managing the economy, coping with natural disasters, educating our young, handling foreign affairs, providing basic services like health care and safeguarding individual rights. That it is still in power, and will remain in power after this election, is a testament to our inability to separate illusion from reality. We still believe in “the experts.” They still believe in themselves. They are clustered like flies swarming around John McCain and Barack Obama. It is only when these elites are exposed as incompetent parasites and dethroned that we will have any hope of restoring social, economic and political order.

“Their inability to see the human as anything more than interest driven made it impossible for them to imagine an actively organized pool of disinterest called the public good,” said the Canadian philosopher John Ralston Saul, whose books “The Unconscious Civilization” and “Voltaire’s Bastards” excoriates our oligarchic elites. “It is as if the Industrial Revolution had caused a severe mental trauma, one that still reaches out and extinguishes the memory of certain people. For them, modern history begins from a big explosion–the Industrial Revolution. This is a standard ideological approach: a star crosses the sky, a meteor explodes, and history begins anew.”

Our elites–the ones in Congress, the ones on Wall Street and the ones being produced at prestigious universities and business schools–do not have the capacity to fix our financial mess. Indeed, they will make it worse. They have no concept, thanks to the educations they have received, of the common good. They are stunted, timid and uncreative bureaucrats who are trained to carry out systems management. They see only piecemeal solutions which will satisfy the corporate structure. They are about numbers, profits and personal advancement. They are as able to deny gravely ill people medical coverage to increase company profits as they are able to use taxpayer dollars to peddle costly weapons systems to blood-soaked dictatorships. The human consequences never figure into their balance sheets. The democratic system, they think, is a secondary product of the free market. And they slavishly serve the market.

Andrew Lahde, the Santa Monica, Calif., hedge fund manager who made an 870 percent gain last year by betting on the subprime mortgage collapse, has abruptly shut down his fund, citing the risk of trading with faltering banks. In his farewell letter to his investors he excoriated the elites who run our investment houses, banks and government.

“The low hanging fruit, i.e. idiots whose parents paid for prep school, Yale, and then the Harvard MBA, was there for the taking,” he said of our oligarchic class. “These people who were (often) truly not worthy of the education they received (or supposedly received) rose to the top of companies such as AIG, Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers and all levels of our government. All of this behavior supporting the Aristocracy only ended up making it easier for me to find people stupid enough to take the other side of my trades. God bless America.”

“On the issue of the U.S. Government, I would like to make a modest proposal,” he went on. “First, I point out the obvious flaws, whereby legislation was repeatedly brought forth to Congress over the past eight years, which would have [reined] in the predatory lending practices of now mostly defunct institutions. These institutions regularly filled the coffers of both parties in return for voting down all of this legislation designed to protect the common citizen. This is an outrage, yet no one seems to know or care about it. Since Thomas Jefferson and Adam Smith passed, I would argue that there has been a dearth of worthy philosophers in this country, at least ones focused on improving government.”

Democracy is not an outgrowth of free markets. Democracy and capitalism are antagonistic entities. Democracy, like individualism, is not based on personal gain but on self-sacrifice. A functioning democracy must defy the economic interests of elites on behalf of citizens. This is not happening. The corporate managers and government officials trying to fix the economic meltdown are pouring money and resources into the financial sector because they only know how to manage and sustain established systems, not change them. Financial systems, however, are not pure scientific and numerical abstractions that exist independently from human beings.

“When the elite begin to think that money is real, the crash is coming,” Saul said in a telephone interview. “That is just a given in history. Because what they’ve done is pull themselves out of the possibility of looking in the mirror and thinking, this is inflation, speculation, this is fluff. They can’t do it. And when you say to them, gosh, this is not real. And they say, oh, you don’t understand, you’re so old-fashioned, you still think this is about manufacturing. And of course, it’s basic economics. And that’s what happens every single time.

“The difficulty is you have a collapse, you have a loss of face by the people who are there, and it’s not just George Bush, it’s very, very deep,” Saul said. “What we’re talking about is the need to rethink the departments of economics, of political science. Then you have to rethink the whole analytic method of the World Bank. If I’m the secretary of the treasury, and not a guy like [Henry] Paulson, but I mean a sort of normal secretary of the treasury or minister of finance, and I say, OK, we’ve got a real problem, let’s get the senior civil servants in here. Gentlemen, ladies, OK, clearly we have to go in another direction, give me some ideas. Well, those people don’t have any other ideas because at this point they’re about the fourth generation of what you might call neoconservative globalist managers, unfairly summarized. So they then go to the people who work for them, and you work down; there’s no one in there with an alternate approach. I mean they’ll have little alternatives, but no basic differences in opinion. And so it’s very difficult to turn anything around because they’ve eliminated all opposing ideas inside. I mean it’s the problem of the Soviet Union, right?”

Saul pointed out that the first three aims of the corporatist movement in Germany, Italy and France during the 1920s, those that went on to become part of the Fascist experience, were “to shift power directly to economic and social interest groups, to push entrepreneurial initiative in areas normally reserved for public bodies” and to “obliterate the boundaries between public and private interest–that is, challenge the idea of the public interest.”

Sound familiar?

“There are a handful of people who haven’t been published in mainstream journals, who haven’t been listened to, who have been marginalized in every way,” Saul said. “There are a couple of them and you could turn to them. But then who do you give the orders to? And the people you give the orders to, they are not going to understand the orders because it hasn’t been a part of their education. So it’s a real problem of a good general who suddenly finds that his junior generals and brigadiers and corporals, you want them to do irregular warfare and they only know how to do trenches. And so how the hell do you get them to do this thing which they’ve never been trained to do? And so you get this kind of disorder, confusion inside, and the danger of what rises up there is populism; we’ve already had populism in a way, but we could get more populism, more fear and anger.”

We may elect representatives to Congress to end the war in Iraq, but the war goes on. We may plead with these representatives to halt Bush’s illegal wiretapping but the telecommunications lobbyists make sure it remains in place. We may beg them not to pass the bailout but 850 billion taxpayer dollars are funneled upward to the elites on Wall Street. We may want single-payer, not-for-profit health care but it is not even discussed as a possibility in presidential debates. We, as individuals in this system, are irrelevant.

“I’ve talked to several Supreme Court justices, several times in several countries,” Saul told me, “and I say, look, in your rulings, can you differentiate easily in cases between the social contract and the commercial contract, and to which the answer is, we can no longer differentiate. And that lies at the heart of the problem. You don’t have the concept of the other, and of obligation of the individual leading to individualism. You can’t have that if the whole legal system has slipped over the last, really, 50 years, increasingly, to a confusion between the social contract and the commercial contract. Because they are two completely different things. The social contract is about the public good, responsible individualism, imagining the other. The commercial contract is a commercial contract. They’re not supposed to be confused. They don’t actually fit together. The commercial contract only works properly when the social contract works in a democracy.”

The working class, which has desperately borrowed money to stay afloat as real wages have dropped, now face years, maybe decades, of stagnant or declining incomes without access to new credit. The national treasury meanwhile is being drained on behalf of speculative commercial interests. The government–the only institution citizens have that is big enough and powerful enough to protect their rights–is becoming weaker, more anemic and less able to help the mass of Americans who are embarking on a period of deprivation and suffering unseen in this country since the 1930s. Consumption, the profligate engine of the U.S. economy, is withering. September retail sales across the U.S. fell 1.2 percent. The decline was almost double the 0.7 percent drop analysts expected from consumers, whose spending represents two-thirds of U.S. economic activity. There were 160,000 jobs lost last month and three-quarters of a million jobs lost this year. The reverberations of the economic meltdown are only beginning.

I do not think George W. Bush or Barack Obama or John McCain or Henry Paulson are fascists. Rather, they are part of a cabal of naive, mediocre and self-deluded capitalists who are steadily weakening political and economic structures to a point where our democracy will become so impotent that it can be blown aside, probably with broad popular support. The only question is how this will happen. Will there be a steady and slow decline as in the late Roman Empire when the Senate ended as a farce? Will we see a powerful right-wing backlash from those outside the mainstream political system, as we did in Yugoslavia, and the rise of a militant Christian fascism? Will there be a national crisis that allows those in power to instantly sweep away all constitutional rights in the name of national security?

I do not know. But I do know that what is coming, as long as our oligarchy remains in charge, will not be good. We will either recover the concept of the public good, and this means a revolt against our bankrupt elite and the dynamiting of the corporatist structure, or we will extinguish our democracy.

Copyright © 2008 Truthdig, L.L.C.
Chris Hedges, a Pulitzer prize winner and a former foreign correspondent for The New York Times, is the author of “American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America.” His column appears Mondays on Truthdig.

October 21, 2008 @ 3:08 pm | Comment

FOARP, I guess the point is whether the peg would have become unsustainable without the run and if that would have happened, when. Soros can say “it was unsustainable”, but he was arguably pushing that matter to a head earlier. It’s perfectly legal, though I have a personal view that if one wants to engage in that sort of activity they can’t complain if they are regarded badly because of it. But I agree that the peg itself had been a failure and it would have been better to get rid of it before BW.

It’s funny you mention the Conservative Party because I have been thinking about joining them (again) for a while. I’ve certainly been voting for them. But until the last few years didn’t feel very enthusiastic about the party itself.

October 21, 2008 @ 3:24 pm | Comment

I haven’t visited an expat blog for a while, but it doesn’t at all surprise me to see that the standard of commentary and insight has not yet improved.

China suffers from huge problems, but what society on the face of the planet doesn’t? All these people who opine with such peremptory assurance about it circumstances suffer from the most demonstrable ignorance of history. China is an industrializing nation. Has the process of mass industrialization ever occured without generating enormous hardship and suffering, or engendering huge inequalities and rampant iniquity?

This is supposed to be one of the more civil and respectable China-related expat blogs, but most of the comments consist of nothing but asinine whining.

Not_A_Sinophile, well gee, I’m sorry to hear that you have suffered so much during your tenure in the Middle Kingdom. You are obviously an extremely frustrated and embittered individual, and no doubt harbour many genuine grievances. But this alone doesn’t lend validity to anything that you’ve ever thought or said. Think of residing in another country as a type of aptitude test – one which I doubt that you’ll ever pass.

Most of you the people commenting here exemplify the reason that China will take the lead in the next few decades – even Westerners who live in China are completely clueless about it. How many people contributing to this blog who reside in China can even read Chinese?

October 21, 2008 @ 4:25 pm | Comment

I think you’d be surprised at how many here can read Chinese, Kenneth. But that really isn’t the test about whether one’s opinions about China are reasonable or not. I’ve read shocking viewpoints about China from people who can and cannot read Chinese. If you’re not sure what I mean, take a look at some of the posts here by Math and Hong Xing; people can read Chinese and still have a very warped view of China. Some who cannot, like some of the foreign correspondents here, can be spot-on in their analyses. Nonetheless, I appreciate the comment and partially agree with you. NotA_Sinophile does sound embittered, and there’s a lot of whining here. Luckily I’m here to guide things and keep everyone on track, so the truth usually comes through in the end.

October 21, 2008 @ 4:43 pm | Comment

“If you’re not sure what I mean, take a look at some of the posts here by Math and Hong Xing; people can read Chinese and still have a very warped view of China.”

We need to delve into this issue much more deeply.

I’ve always thought that China is a very, very strange place. It’s the only place that I know of where the less that one knows about a place, or the more delusional that one is, the better off one is.

I once read a comment by some balding 60 year old American businessman in China who’d married some 20 year old Chinese girl who remarked that “one doesn’t need to be able to speak Chinese or even know anything about China in order to succeed in China.”

It’s almost as if the best taxi drivers are blind taxi drivers.

October 21, 2008 @ 7:51 pm | Comment

Murphy’s law expressed at its best…

The answer is simple Buck, uneducated peoples. And I am not saying that on a pejorative tone. It’s just where China stands at this moment. And of course not everybody, mostly seen in tier cities.

Think about the US 30-40 years ago, the family’s uncles preaching the truth with a beer between the legs and a cigarette in the mouth.

China is not yet sophisticated (by our standards), so for us Laowai, it’s like traveling back in time.

I’ve been trying for a long time to try to find the perfect analogy for people like Hong Xing. Still searching but I know one day I’ll find it.

Their reasoning is really a mirroring of their education and the way their mind is shaped. I am not an anti-china person, but if there is one thing that I despise in this country, it’s the education system, and this takes the prize in front of the CCP. People are just not taught to think outside of the box. They just memorize data. They are never taught to question the information or the systems (I’ve been told this many times by my wife and many Chinese friends, so it’s not an evil foreigner assumption). And for the people working here as managers or CEO’s, I am sure you are experiencing on a daily basis.

The biggest weaknesses of China are creativity and education, not it’s political system.

I think the best way I could express it now would be: Analytical mental jail.

October 21, 2008 @ 8:47 pm | Comment

ISM and goat boy are not the same person, Bao. ISM is a Chinese-Australian from plus4chan /n/. nanheyangrouchuan is an ant-CCP poster who has been around the block a lot longer. They are rather similar in some ways, (although ISM is perhaps considerably less well-balanced) and I can see why you would make that mistake.

October 21, 2008 @ 9:28 pm | Comment

Bah, it was just a wild guess anyways. I can’t for sure know if it’s him or not. I was merely using the occasion to self elevate myself to the rank of Google detective master.

October 21, 2008 @ 10:02 pm | Comment

That TruthDigg article above is actually quite thought provoking The author is no flaming radical either. One day we’ll talk about the oligarchy that rules America.

October 21, 2008 @ 11:38 pm | Comment

The article is good but only scratches the surface, again. Sometimes being inflamed and passionate about something is good. Most of the major changes in human history went through this. I don’t know of many historical events that were put in place through calm and non inflamed discussions.

Moderation is only good in times where change is not necessary and maintaining the status quo is the most logical thing to do.

You’ve got to get mad…

I live by a simple rule now: Whatever humans can envision can become or is reality.

Arthur C. Clarke and the satellites… The list is very long.

People are getting lost into details, it’s like a mental drug. Addicted they are to dissect the false reality in front of their eyes and feeling clever and being rewarded by their peers for doing so, unable to see the bigger and more abstract, but so much more real big picture.

October 22, 2008 @ 12:18 am | Comment

The Earth is round my friends! What ??? Burn him! Heresy!! Witch!

October 22, 2008 @ 12:21 am | Comment

To Bao:
A very interesting observation, but i disagree. You mention that China is not yet as sophisticated as the western countries. That is true. So why do you use western standards to analyse the Chinese education system? Chinese is a developing country. The goal of the Chinese education system, presently, is not to catch up with the sophisticated western educational system. The goal of the Chinese educational system is to educate the maximum number of people in the shortest amount of time. That’s a herculean task consider the population size. The best apple to apple comparison would be comparing the Chinese educational system to the Indian educational system. The Chinese system no doubt is the better of the two in terms of literacy rate, access to public education, and quality of education. Besides, a typical Chinese student learn far more stuffs than that is required in the western countries from 1st-9th grade. Most teachers don’t have the time to explain the concepts behind the every problem because free public education only lasts for 9 years. As for the don’t question the information they received, you couldn’t be more wrong. We Chinese (generation X) know whats up if you ask too many questions. Most of us that are interested in politics take it to the tea houses, and do our yapping there. But at times when virtually every major economy is in a recession, and we are in a 9.1 percent growth for the third quarter, and we feel like the government is doing its job to undo its wrongs( recent land reform, prediction that China will be a democracy in 2020 by Zhou Tianyong). All that its needed is to “act stupid and pretend a fool”.

October 22, 2008 @ 12:39 am | Comment

NJ

It’s not a question of catching up, but more about the actual system being used currently. There’s nothing to catch up, all it takes is a reform and the stopping of the “teachers are gods” mentality (without mentioning all the abuses that go with it, recent news headlines, you already know anyway).

Bringing thousands of foreigners in the country to palliate to the obvious lack of higher skilled managers is the perfect example. In my opinion, the right thing to do would be focus on the roots of the problem.

Do you think it’s normal that your only occasions to discuss and think freely are around a cup of tea with your close friends or your family ? Do not under estimate the importance of your early education. This is what defines you as an adult. Unless you undergo sci-fi brainwashing techniques, you’ll be stuck with this. It’s just how the brain an the psyche works.

You might think you are a free thinking spirit, but the previously and deeply imprinted cognitive mechanisms are still active today.

If you have a chance and you did not read it already take a look at : Man and His Symbols by Carl Jung.

“The goal of the Chinese educational system is to educate the maximum number of people in the shortest amount of time.”

You can say a lot and define a lot in a very short amount of time. This just sound like an excuse to me. I can teach many things in 9 years, I can teach you to hate, to kill, etc, including free thinking. It’s all about the underlying system. Ever heard about the wolf child ?

I have one very general definition to categorize people. The world is made of 2 major types of people: Technicians and creators.

A technician is somebody that will absorb knowledge and excel to apply it. They usually are very fast learners. They master knowledge, but they are unable to create new things.

A creator is usually someone that will follow a more bumpy road. They usually are mediocre in school, learn slowly, etc.But once they learn something, they are able to push it further, in non expected ways. They are outcasts and for the most of their life will be considered as failure, until the day when they reach their true potential.

I believe there is a deep symbiosis between the 2 groups. But the ratio is totally uneven. My estimate is that creators account for around 1-5% of the population, while the technicians account for 95% or so. None of the group is better than the other, they are just different.

Both groups cannot exist without the other. Even if out of balance, for example, the creator group would stagnate if the technician group was not there to realize their visions. And the technicians would not progress as well, unable to go further in their thinking.

Based on your previous comment, I do believe that you are probably part of the creator group. But what about the other 95% living in China ? You question, I agree. But not the rest of the mass. I hope you are aware of this.

October 22, 2008 @ 1:21 am | Comment

“But at times when virtually every major economy is in a recession, and we are in a 9.1 percent growth for the third quarter…”

Enjoy 2009 NJ

😉

October 22, 2008 @ 1:42 am | Comment

NJ:

“So why do you use western standards to analyse the Chinese education system? Chinese is a developing country.”

Calling China a ‘developing’ country is itself adhering to Western standards. The world will be a better place when this whole ‘developed/developing’ approach to understanding countries is tossed into the trashbin of history. I mean what does ‘developed’even mean, anyways? An economy based on unproductive financial arbitrage? The US, Europe, Canada, etc. don’t look in such great shape these days, do they…

I always laughed when my Chinese friends told me Canada was “developed”. My response was “what do you mean, has it stop moving or changing? Is everything frozen in a perfect state?”

October 22, 2008 @ 3:00 am | Comment

Bao is also known as Bobby Liu. He’s is a known racist on thebeijinger.com

October 22, 2008 @ 3:26 am | Comment

The hard working people who built (”decorated”) my condo had their hearts in it, but their bosses were liars and thieves. The sheer filthiness of the streets in my city are appalling. The lack of the rule of law and the glee with which that is “celebrated” is unintelligible. Consumerism as become a virulent disease. The police are lazy, ignorant, untrained and/or corrupt. The “government” officials are pompous, ignorant, untrained and/or corrupt.

Sounds like an Detroit, New York or some parts of Washington D.C.

The world is made of 2 major types of people: Technicians and creators.

Not really. Most people are good at both or not good at either. The Einstein type is uh, rare. He only did poorly at being a “technician” because human society doesn’t really accomodate exceptional people.

People are just not taught to think outside of the box.

That’s not an education problem, I don’t think. People aren’t taught to “think outside of the box” in America either. It’s just that the American public school system, as worthless as it is, doesn’t completely break a kid’s spirit like the schools in Japan, Korea, Taiwan and China.

October 22, 2008 @ 7:41 am | Comment

was going to say *an American city but I decided to list examples.

http://invisibleskymagician.baywords.com/

Here is ISM’s blog if you want to get to know him better. I was going to find the article where he is laughing at African women with breast cancer but there’s one laughing at the 9/11 victims on the front page.

He and Not_a_Sinophile are more or less the same, along with all the other crazies who have a pathological hatred for China.

October 22, 2008 @ 8:15 am | Comment

Wow, ISM is one hell of a monster. What a site.

October 22, 2008 @ 8:56 am | Comment

Anon

I have nothing to do with this Bobby Liu and I’ve never even heard about the thebeijinger.com.

And I must say that it sadden me a bit to see that my comments define me to some people as being a racist, which I am absolutely not. I am merely giving my opinion on certain subject and in the future, I’ll try to make my points very clear in order to not give any feel of “hatred”.

I grew up in an extremely multicultural society and the racism concept is totally unacceptable. This is also a concept that Chinese people are having a hard time to grasp, since China is mostly homogeneous (Han).

From where I come, we usually don’t refer to people coming from abroad and living and working in in our country “foreigner” or “lao wai”. They are just citizens, either permanent or temporary.

And in my opinion that’s part of the beauty of America. It’s not perfect and there is tensions, but overall I consider this kind of society as an evolution for the human race and I sure hope that one day, we’ll live all together on this planet without borders. But I am not sure if we humans are clever enough to reach this goal. The future will tell us.

October 22, 2008 @ 1:48 pm | Comment

@ferin

Oh man! What a blog! A place to visit when one is deranged.

Also, good to visit after a ferin’s post bombardment 😉

Still considering if putting it in my google reader list, under special label of course.

October 22, 2008 @ 2:37 pm | Comment

Look for this in ISM blog

“-Newbie’s Guide To Pro-China Internet Trolls-”

Absolutely great! 😉

October 22, 2008 @ 2:42 pm | Comment

That’s great too

“9) Everyone is as bad as the ChiCom Party

Usually it goes like this:

Person: “China is bad at issue x” (where x can be such issues as pollution and human rights)
ChiCom Troll: “But [insert country here] is just as bad at issue x as China”
Person: “That may be the case, but it still doesn’t excuse China’s handling of the matters”
ChiCOm Troll: “China is doing the best it can at issue x, I suggest [insert country here] fix up their own problems first before criticizing China”
Person: “[insert country here] IS trying to fix issue x also, and it’s certainly doing much more than China, which is close to nothing”
ChiCom Troll: “China is doing the best it can at issue x and I trust there will be positive results in the future”

Also called the “Two wrongs don’t make a right” fallacy.”

October 22, 2008 @ 2:46 pm | Comment

http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2008-10-21-red-dragon-china-factories-economy_N.htm

Many economists, including Yu Yongding of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, believe that China needs to keep annual economic growth of 8% or 9% to absorb the 24 million people entering the labor force every year or risk social instability.

This threshold is scarily high… Does that mean that China must maintain a double digits growth just to maintain social harmony in the country ?

And once the China’s growth miracle will end, what will happen next when the 24 million people flow doesn’t stop coming on the market every year, in fact by this time this number should have doubled at least…

October 22, 2008 @ 7:03 pm | Comment

“I once read a comment by some balding 60 year old American businessman in China who’d married some 20 year old Chinese girl who remarked that “one doesn’t need to be able to speak Chinese or even know anything about China in order to succeed in China.”

It’s almost as if the best taxi drivers are blind taxi drivers.”

“Ahhh…GlassHoppa…Don’t eva assume dat just ’cause one has no eyes dat one cannot see!”

http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=eGblsNXkJog&feature=related

October 22, 2008 @ 9:06 pm | Comment

Having briefly read the Soros article I would agree with the broad thrust of what he is saying but would add some points.

1. As Soros says China needs to convert its dollars into assets if it is to become dominant. I don’t see Chinese companies taking over the world anytime soon. The main problem here is the political resistance China will meet with if it wishes to purchase heavily in the US or EU. Think Japan’s problems in the eighties and nineties, then multiply by “they’re a bunch of nazi commies!” scaremongering.

2. China will not escape the downturn undamaged. The CCP has yet to deal with a major downturn affecting all of society and it is not clear they would survive it. The downturn will mainly affect China by damaging its export economy, which is not necessarily the most important part is nevertheless a very important source of all those lovely us dollar assets.

3. In addition to the export problems China faces endemic pollution, a water crunch, few resources, a house price collapse and fears at home and abroad over product safety.

Whilst the US and EU are floundering, Japan’s recession is looking to be short and sharp and the Japanese, also flush with US dollars, are looking to go shopping. Asia maybe on the up, but it is not necessarily China who will benefit.

I am by no means an expert, but that is my two pennies worth

October 22, 2008 @ 10:57 pm | Comment

A bit reassuring… China might lead the way after all. Let’s hope for the best.

“No matter how historical responsibility is defined, our country’s development path cannot repeat the unconstrained emissions of developed countries’ energy use,” states the Chinese-language report. “We must soon prepare and plan ahead to implement emissions reduction concepts and measures in a long-term and stable energy development strategy.”

http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn15011-china-warns-of-huge-rise-in-emissions.html?DCMP=ILC-hmts&nsref=news1_head_dn15011

October 23, 2008 @ 12:25 am | Comment

http://www.prisonplanet.com/what-will-obamas-international-crisis-be.html

What will it be ?

China… No doubt on this. Buckle your seat belt people.

October 23, 2008 @ 1:38 am | Comment

Bao,

When prisonplanet.com or infowar.com report on the so called Obama international crisis, they probably mean the emergence of the NWO one world government, through militaristic confrontation of the Shanghai cooperative. Or some other insane shit like “cleaning out the stables,” something insane like killing a lot of Americans, through a WMD false flag operation. The point is it is some crazy shit. The other day his guest was talking about the Luciferian symbolism of everything, I mean everything; we are currently living IN THE END OF TIMES. Stuff like that.

Well, I certainly believe in the existence of the controlling/ruling elites, but just not sure how far I want to go in my beliefs (at best it’s an oligarchy, at worst all the theories are true, they are fucking occultists who run EVERYTHING and plan on killing 80-99% of us all). I gleamed over your posts above, I think it’s possible that the current crisis is designed as an attack against China. I believe: the elites sometimes give us subliminal hints to their plans through mediums such movies: for example, the recent batman movie, what did the Joker do to all those money? HE BURNED IT! Think about that for a minute. Not to mention the martial law, chaos, of Gotham. Which I believe has a chance of coming true.

Perhaps I am simply crazy. I hope I am.

October 23, 2008 @ 2:29 am | Comment

It’s more true than we dare to believe it I think. This is the the whole point of what I have been posting on this site. The problem with conspiracy things, is that it’s a melting pot. And it becomes very hard to filter real trends from totally wacko stuff. It attracts the craziest of the craziest… But somehow, and I am very rational person (maybe a bit intuitive I would say), more and more some of these “visions” are becoming true.

I don’t know if it’s real or not. But I can clearly see a trend toward something very big. I just don’t know how to analyze this so far. I think this is the reason why I am posting of forums (I never did that in my entire life). I guess I am probing in the public to see if what I am thinking has any echoes. Yes or not, it’s my current personal quest right now.

October 23, 2008 @ 2:40 am | Comment

Again, pseudorandom, I am happy to see your answer. Not because I am looking for support in my prose. But more in a genuine interest to see how much it resonates with normal peoples.

I am not trying to push any wacko agenda here. it’s an honest attempt to learn more about what people feel about their inner and secret “crazy theories” side let’s say.

October 23, 2008 @ 2:43 am | Comment

But we cannot deny one thing… However people interpret it, be it in a very simplistic approach (religious fears, political drama, etc). There is a general feeling of doom upon us.

It doesn’t matter our personal background or our current social status, I think most of us have this feel right now. And it’s being expressed in various ways. And we all dismiss the signals coming out of our very own cast.

But somehow we all know it’s big, we just don’t know what to do about it, and we seek answers. Like me.

October 23, 2008 @ 2:50 am | Comment

About your statement about the Batman movie, I think it’s more linked to global consciousnesses. I do not believe that the politicians have a direct take on content in movies.

But I do think that creative and sensible people, do get their inspiration from trends, feels, etc. They act like antennas to focus the emotion of the world. This is vital to create a block buster. You have to be able to sense what people and the society wants to absorb at this exact moment. Hence you will easily find symbols that touches you.

These creators are influenced by the same exact world you live in, they are not disconnected. Their vision is a projection of the global vision. The more general they are, the more they will be successful, because they will reach you.

October 23, 2008 @ 2:57 am | Comment

@Bao,

What I meant was that movie producers etc have an ear to the grapevine, they may be privy to unusual things, which they then put into their movies. No, I don’t have any evidence supporting this, and I also don’t claim it to be true. But I do know from people who worked on movies that producers etc often will modify the script to add in little details. I certainly do not mean the politicians are directing movies. Matter of fact, I don’t think politicians are anything really, they are merely tools, useful idiots, most of them anyway.

Oh yeah… Some producers are high ranking masons.. Simpson guy… high ranking mason. You know the recent Simpsons movie? Yeah, pretty tripped out, huh? I don’t know this is borderline skizzo thinking… Hell, is skizzo!

I’m just saying… The elites of the western world all have strange occult connections. It’s everywhere, so freaky…

October 23, 2008 @ 6:50 am | Comment

Somewhat on-topic, here’s a question which Chinese nationalists care about immensely:

How can a country become a Great Power in a short space of time?

Is it enough to host the Olympics, launch a manned space mission and run the world’s largest engineering projects?

Not at all. The way for a country to join the ranks of the Great Powers in just 8 years is to start off as a Superpower and put Dubya in charge.

October 23, 2008 @ 8:18 am | Comment

Si, agree China will not escape undamaged. But I would say th elevel of that damage will be significantly less than in the US. China will introduce its own bailout package, even more generous than our own – but at least they have the surplus to do that without creating to much havoc.

Bao, last warning: stop posting four or ore comments in a row. Organize your thoughts before hand and write a single comment. It looks like spam when people see comment after comment by you in thread after thread. Thanks.

This thread is now too long and sprawling. Please move to the new open thread.

October 23, 2008 @ 8:30 am | Comment

RSS feed for comments on this post.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.