Rumors and Racism

Jeremiah

I seriously hope this is just a hysterical rumor run amok…but then again I have seen people of color refused service at Beijing bars before while Chinese and caucasians continued to be served, so I guess anything is possible.  That said, I agree with The Shanghaiist: even by Beijing Olympic standards, any official who actually went around telling people this stuff would have to be mind-boggling, gobsmackingly stupid.

UPDATE: As suspected, this has the strong whiff of a rumor that went out of control.  Beijing nightlife guru Jim Boyce was on the case immediately and came up empty.  Closer to home, crusading journalist YJ was also calling around, talking to several owners including Huxley, and similarly came away empty.

I’m guessing that this is a “somebody said something to somebody else” game of telephone that ran amok.

It is an open secret that various levels of discrimination do exist at Beijing’s nightspots, we’re just glad that it hasn’t become official policy.

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Richard Burger is the author of Behind the Red Door: Sex in China, an exploration of China's sexual revolution and its clash with traditional Chinese values.

The Discussion: 144 Comments

Ecodelta,

How are you able to verify that Ra is really African and not a sock with an axe to grind? No offense to Ra and his opinion, but really, I’m just curious? For the moderators of this board, why not go out and talk to a bar owner, or email one? Or email some, I don’t know, actual blacks in Beijing?

100 comments about what was rumored to be a rumor, confirmed to be a rumor, but damn it, we’ve got some China bashing/defending to do!

Hey, just to have a slight whiff of legitimacy – instead of the usual screeds – practice a little due diligence.

July 21, 2008 @ 10:48 am | Comment

And to Jeremiah,

I think its poor form (I wont call this journalism) to post on a rumor, have it quickly dashed by someone not quite as lazy as you seem to be, and still manage to get in a shot at China for being a place that practices discrimination.

I’ll play; I’m black, lived in China for a few years, own a (very) small China related enterprise in the U.S., and I’ll take bars in China over bars in much of the rest of the world any day of the week. Peru and Ecuador, for starters, are countries where certain bars have a policy of not even allowing blacks entry, let alone serving them.

Just my opinion of course, but stick to bashing China for it’s human rights record, lack of openness, assaults on journalistic freedom, etc, but give them some credit when it comes to dealing with race.

And before I get called a 50 center or whatever, let me just say that the moderators of this forum are welcome to contact me, though I don’t want my email address made public. I just really think you guys are so rabid in pointing out Chinese flaws that you fail to realize the depth of the flaws worldwide.

James

July 21, 2008 @ 11:03 am | Comment

James, Jeremiah said in the opening sentence he was hoping it was “a hysterical rumor run amok.” It was not poor form at all. If he said it was a fact, that would be a different story. And as more information came to light he updated the post.

I have known some blacks living here. Unfortunately, they found racism quite prevalent. Nearly every Chinese friend of mine tells me quite openly that Chinese are very, um, race-conscious. You’ll find elements of racism in every society, but some societies are better than others in reining it in. I think this situation is slowly improving as China opens up and will hopefully be in full reverse in a generation or two. America has its own history of racism to deal with, I know.

James, if you think this blog is “rabid” in pointing out Chinese flaws, you don’t have to come here. You are totally wrong, of course – Jeremiah and Lisa and I and many others here love China and have chosen to live here. Have you read my posts about America? I guess you can say I am “rabid” about pointing out the evils of the Bush administration or the gullibility of the American votes, but again you’d be entirely wrong. Criticism is healthy. If it’s done with a message of hatred, of racism of inciting violence that’s another story. You will not see that here, except in the fenqing comments, ironically enough.

I am getting real tired of the commenters who see “anti-China” sentiment everywhere.

July 21, 2008 @ 11:25 am | Comment

Africans consider boycott of Beijing Olympics – “China’s Strict Visa Conditions Threaten Olympics”

http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=117382

July 21, 2008 @ 12:32 pm | Comment

It appears that my comment has added a dimension to the discussion that was missing, an individual that is at least claiming to be African-American (not African, like poster Heiheianan mispoke /misread/freudian slipped, or do you Heiheianan, like most of the Chinese people I have met over the past 4 years also believe that any person of color is “Fei Zhou Ren”?) Of course no one can truly conclude my nationality or “color” if you will via a website, so I concede the point; That being stated, I am a brother form the southside of Chicago, Loyola University, and prior to my coming to China I was Promotions Coordinator for ESPN Radio in Chicago. That is all verifiable if you wish to research it, so I am not some hack with an axe to grind as was stated before, just a guy with a personal opinion based on actual experiences and hoping to add some clarity to the topic. The Chinese are often fond of saying “If you didn’t want anyone to know you did something, you shouldn’t have done it” It is this kind of prevalent hypocrisy that motivates me to write and share with the board. As of my experiences I suppose the most outward display of racism comes from the umbrellas. Most of them use an umbrella everyday to “shield” themselves from the sun. When I asked about this odd behavior, I was told ” I don’t want to be dark and black, it is very ugly.” I am talking about 75% percent of the people walking around on daily basis carrying an UMBRELLA so that there skin is white and “pure”. If I had a dollar for the number of times I have been called “Hei Ren” and “Hei Gui” and Fei Zhou Hei Wer”, all disgusting slurs aimed at anyone of African descent I’d be Warren Buffet. These people hate us. And most chillingly I will be walking and see and hear the parents pointing at me and educating the children to say these horrific words. The movies don’t help in many instances, but my own Chinese teacher was educated in Chongqing, he told me that American expats would come here and denigrate the brothers and sisters in the U.S. and taught him all this nonsense about our penchant forlaziness, imbecility and a fondness for rape. Heiheianan, I categorically refuse to, as you say “give the Chinese some credit for “dealing” with race. Just your choice of the word “dealing” tells me more that I need to know about your perception of us “colored folk” .I would suggest you rest your own demons of race relations before you take on the monumental task of covering for the bigoted racists you seem so selflessly ready to defend.

July 21, 2008 @ 1:29 pm | Comment

http://www.clickafrique.com/Magazine/ST010/CP0000002878.aspx#comments more people are catching wind of this

July 21, 2008 @ 1:32 pm | Comment

@heiheianan

I think you got already the answer directly from Raj himself. If you have any doubts about him, why don’t just ask him directly.
Hhhhmm… do you have any problem asking him?

As I said, there is usually a problem or at leas unfamiliarity, with people that look much different than the local ones. And CH is no exception no matter what.

Instead of scuttling the problem just face it (instead of try to save face), it is the first step to solve it.

@raj
I have observed that custom in Asia of wearing umbrellas to protect skin against getting too tanned. I would not consider it racism in all cases.

For example, not long ago similar custom was usual in my own country to protect the skin against the sun. Why? If you had tanned skin it meant you were a mere worker forced to work on the fields under the sun, you belonged to the lower under classes.

If you skin was whiter, it meant you did not have to work on the fields because you were rich; you belonged to higher status classes.

Whiter skin was a status symbol, in some countries in Asia is still so. A darker skinned person is considered to be a rural worker with all that comes with it: poorer, not so well educated, not so good manners, etc.

Curiously the situation in EU is now reversed. Now if you can get a tanned skin (unless it is your natural color) it means you are rich enough to afford and expensive holidays in a good sunny tourist resort.

In Germany it is so popular to get tanned that you can find shops with UV machines on every corner where one can get his skin tanned (or burned).
It is not unusual to find persons, 100% German blood, and still so dark skinned as some of African origin.

Status symbol is reversed, now dark skin is very fashionable and beloved by status conscious persons. Too white skin is considered now ugly!

Given some time, we may even see that development in the future in Asia.

July 21, 2008 @ 2:43 pm | Comment

By the way, what is wrong with being of African origin. All Homo Sapiens Sapiens came from Africa.

Unless you are not an Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

Tsk tsk tsk. People should show more respect for their venerable ancestors.

I thought that was always the case in CH 😉

July 21, 2008 @ 2:47 pm | Comment

Ra: I’m pretty sure you are a white guy trying to bash up on Chinese through false accusations of racism. Otherwise you are a black man trying to apply the modern Western paradigm of race onto the vastly different society of China.

Chinese people may be overly curious to the point of rudeness when it comes to people who look different to themselves, but that is the result of having being raised in a monoracial society all their lives. If a Chinese man landed in the middle of Africa, being the only Chinese around I am sure he would also attract a lot or attention.

Chinese may mistakenly believe you to be a “fei zhou ren” – how is that racist?
Is it anymore racist than assuming any white person can speak English – as is often the case in Asia? Sure it may not be polite to make an assumption, but the charge of racism is way over the top.

As for “Hei ren” that is a perfectly legitmate term – just as “bai ren” means white person. “hei gui” is pejorative, but in Hong Kong the terms “gwai lo” (guilao) or “gwai tau”, or “bak gwai” are all commonly used to refer to white people. Gweilao has become so common in usage that it has lost its ability to offend. So I doubt that a person who refers to you as “hei gui,” has any real intent to ridicule you, still less would it represent in any way his views(if indeed he has any) on race at all.

All the same it is quite reasonable that you would feel offended, and as Chinese begin to come into contact with more and more different people, they should indeed learn to be more sensitive to the feelings of others.

If you said Chinese can be extremely rude and insensitive I would completely agree with you. If you said some have negative stereotypes about blacks, I would somewhat agree with you.
But saying “these people hate us” is completely off base. Fact is Chinese just don’t think too much about people from different backgrounds – which is a problem to be sure – but not racism.

Most of them use an umbrella everyday to “shield” themselves from the sun.

Chinese generally believe fair skin on a women is one important marker of beauty.
This predates European exploration and conquest. It is important to know that while Chinese like fair skin, it does not mean they prefer the skin of Western white women. Chinese skin tends to be smoother, less hairy and more age resistant than Caucasian skin (although Chinese do scar worse than Caucasians). Chinese women wanting to keep themselves fair is not a racist statement about black people, it is completely absurd to suggest this – as absurd as womeone like myself saying that because I do not meet, say, the Masai ideal of masculinity or indeed the Western one, I am the victim of racial discrimination (although in the latter case the constant stream of media vilification of the Asian man could be considered a form of racism).

July 21, 2008 @ 2:51 pm | Comment

Status symbol is reversed, now dark skin is very fashionable and beloved by status conscious persons. Too white skin is considered now ugly!

Given some time, we may even see that development in the future in Asia.

I certainly hope not. Tanning ages the skin and can lead to melanoma (although some sunlight is important – it is the major source of Vitamin D. I’d agree that some Asian women overdo the thing and become paranoid – but then anything related to feminine beauty has the potential to lead to extreme behaviour – bound feet and Burma’s long necked tribe spring to mind.

July 21, 2008 @ 3:20 pm | Comment

Ra: if one has a dating/sexual predilection for blondes does that make one racist against Chinese, Africans, Eskimos, and Australian aborigines? Of course not.
The fact is race is an integral part of the decision making process, conscious or unconscious, when one considers a potential life partner. That is why it is still perfectly acceptable throughout the Western world to list “preferred ethnicity” when looking for a date.

That one race may consider some physical characteristic beautiful, while same characteristic may not be common or even exist in another race, is not reason in itself to scream racism.

Ra: you have your physical preferences in a women, I have mine. Some of these physical preferences may exclude certain races. But that does not make you or me a racist.

July 21, 2008 @ 3:33 pm | Comment

@Wayne
“I certainly hope not. Tanning ages the skin and can lead to melanoma ”
Yes, melanoma cases have increased as a result of tanning craziness.

“sunlight is important – it is the major source of Vitamin D”
Certainly. In some northen european cities kids receive as supplement of vitamin D to compensate lack of sun.

But too much of a good thing can also be bad for ones’s health 😉

July 21, 2008 @ 4:30 pm | Comment

This from the Financial Times’ Beijing correspondent Mure Dickie:
http://www.ftchinese.com/sc/story_english.jsp?id=001020703

July 21, 2008 @ 5:59 pm | Comment

Who gives a damn if they shut down every night spot and bar in the city. These sinks of western iniquity that unfortunately abound throughout East Asia, are for the enjoyment of spoilt but whiny Western expats and loser white men who could only ever score with their right hand at home but fancy their chances of getting a real live bucking one in East Asia. These Asian chicks of course are really just groupies – not of any rock group or sports team – but of whites. Of course you also get your few filthy rich Chinese wannabes who think having an apparently profound conversation with a white man -any white man that is – over a beer – in front of friends, results in some significant elevation of social status – which is about up to same white man’s crotch level. I’ve seen the same thing over and over and over again throughout East Asia.

Anyone here who says this is untrue is being wilfully blind.

Close all the bars and nightclubs and most people at the games won’t give a stuff. Going to bars is a Western thing. Keep the Peking Duck restaurants open and provide an endless supply of fresh jiaozi (and some of those lamb kebabs I once had in Beijing). This will more than keep most of the real people happy.

As for those whiny Westerners (and their few Chinese lapdogs) and their idea of fun -who cares?

July 21, 2008 @ 7:20 pm | Comment

@Wayne

Tsk tsk tsk..Where is your hospitality?

July 21, 2008 @ 8:12 pm | Comment

@Wayne

I’ll have a crack at this. One does not get to decide what term(s) others’ take issue with.One can’t say, for example, that the equivalent of ‘nigger’ in a language is acceptable due to ignorance. Besides, the very use is at best ignorance and worst xenophobic and racialist.

Other than that, got no problem with what you’re saying.

“I’ve seen the same thing over and over and over again throughout East Asia.”

Been to a few bars have we?

July 21, 2008 @ 8:22 pm | Comment

Rich: ‘heigui’ in chinese is not in any sense at all the equivalent of ‘nigger.’ ‘Nigger’ of course has extremely negative connotations and associations of slavery, racial degredation, loss of language, culture pride, jim crow ,lynching and segregation. When a Westerner uses such a term, it is highly unlikely that he or she is unaware of these associations, therefore its usage is in most circumstances extremely racist (and yes I know blacks frequently use the term but you get my drift).

Contrariwise, the term ‘gui’ while certainly not complimentary, really is just a term for any non-Chinese person, regardless of that persons actual race -yellow, white, brown, black or whatever.

‘Hak gwei’ is no more derogatory than ‘baak gwei’ which is frequentnely applied to white people. Both terms in the minds of the average Chinese user bear no real undertones of racial superiority or animus. It could perhaps convey a sense of ‘us’ and ‘them’ at worst.

In fact there is not and cannot be a term in the Chinese language the equivalent of ‘nigger’ – simply because the meaning of ‘nigger’ is so loaded by historical events that do not have any equivalent in Chinese-black relations.

However, having said that the terms ‘hak gwei’ or ‘bak gwei’, could not in any sense be described as polite and any black person or white person, would to my mind, be well justified in objecting to these terms. And polite, considerate Chinese people should refrain from their use (except when among themselves that is-haha).

I’ve been to an expatriate bar once in Singapore many years ago, and twice in Hong Kong. That was enough to be aware of scene described in previous post.
And you know exactly what I am talking about rich.

July 21, 2008 @ 9:36 pm | Comment

A chinese tutor once told me that Mongolians are “dirty”. “If you go to mongolia and go inside their yurts, not the tourist ones, but the ones they live in you will see they are dirty”

Wonder if Zhang Qingli’s comments regarding the Dalai Lama could be considered “racist”.

Noticed that Korea was left out of the recent discussion between China and Japan regarding dividing up Donghai.

Chinese language teacher snickered when I suggested South Korea was part of the recent G-8 plus three meetings.

Yep the US can learn a lot about how to be more of an egalitarian society from China, Korea, and Japan. Only I’m not sure which one of those three (China, Korea, or Japan) is the superior society for the US to use as a model for improving race relations in the US. Maybe someone can help me identify whether China, Korea, or Japan is the superior social model for improving race relations in the United States.

I was thinking maybe a trip to Japan to meet with the descendents of the ethnic koreans brought to Japan to work as slave laborers in the factories might be a good place to start.

Personally I have a bias towards mongolians, I love a mongolian princess, even if her yurt does get a little dirty from all that time on the steppe.

July 22, 2008 @ 1:10 am | Comment

James,

A couple of quick points…

1) the original post not only expressed both a wish and an assumption that the rumor was just that…a wild hysterical rumor, it concluded by agreeing with the Shanghaiist that even Beijing Olympic officials in their wildest, most baijiu-soaked moments, wouldn’t be that stupid. In Mythbuster fashion, I and a few other people set about trying to verify the rumor and came up empty, which was duly noted the next day.

2) Regarding the larger issue, countering the argument that “Chinese people cannot be racist/discriminatory” is NOT the same thing as arguing “All Chinese people are racist.” I hope you can see the distinction there because it is an important one.

July 22, 2008 @ 7:32 am | Comment

@Wayne “Chinese may mistakenly believe you to be a “fei zhou ren” – how is that racist?”

I never said calling me Fei Zhou Ren was racist, the use of that term when applied to me only illustrates their ignorance and lack of education of the African Diaspora, it is indicative of their inability to discern a brother from Brazil from a brother from England from a brother from the U.S. thus we are all lumped into 1 category, Fei Zhou Ren, which wouldn’t be so bad if they didn’t have so much contempt for Africans. As this post is essentially about skin tone and discrimination based upon it at the Beijing Olympics, I feel I must share my experiences to add some clarity to a great discussion here. When Chinese people are insulting each other they call them “Hei Wer” and when they really want to insult someone they call them “Fei Zhou Hei Wer” which is the “blackest” of the “black” and the epitome of uncleanliness (as you know they believe our skin is brown because we don’t bathe, or did you know?). Maybe thats’ not racist, just hatred, you decide.

@Wayne “As for “Hei ren” that is a perfectly legitmate term – just as “bai ren” means white person”

Unless of course you are walking down the street with a so-called “bai ren” and you hear Chinese people call out and refer to them as “lao wai or or wei guo ren” and then call you “hei ren, hei ren!!!” as opposed to a more respectable title such lao wai or wei guo ren, apparently a title reserved for those with lighter skin tones, again you decide.

@Wayne “”hei gui” is pejorative, but in Hong Kong the terms “gwai lo” (guilao) or “gwai tau”, or “bak gwai” are all commonly used to refer to white people. Gweilao has become so common in usage that it has lost its ability to offend. So I doubt that a person who refers to you as “hei gui,” has any real intent to ridicule you, still less would it represent in any way his views(if indeed he has any) on race at all.”

What kool-aid are you drinking man??? “Hei Gui” means Black Ghost or Black Spirit, it is the one term when there is absolutely no mistake they are trying insult you, it is the one term they use to denigrate and degrade me. I usually only hear it from cars speeding by, because they know that word is a fighting word. On the occassions where I have heard it while in close proximity, they usually run away. So your doubts, in fact your whole “paradigm” of thought on Chinese in regards to race relations needs an overhaul buddy, I’m just educating you, that’s all. I will acknowledge their historic prediliction for fair skin, point taken. I misspoke when in the former post I said “they hate us”, I meant to say given their behavior, actions, disdain for darker complexions, love of fair comlected individuals, utter dislike for the African continents population, It “feels” like they hate us….better now?

July 22, 2008 @ 9:47 am | Comment

@Ra

Here is a REAL brother’s take:

http://silkrc.com/chinadialogs/2007/11/16/black-like-me-in-china/

July 22, 2008 @ 10:13 am | Comment

the use of that term when applied to me only illustrates their ignorance and lack of education of the African Diaspora, it is indicative of their inability to discern a brother from Brazil from a brother from England from a brother from the U.S.

For heavens sake, a Chinese from Sichuan probably can’t tell the difference between a Brazilian black and UK black and that is enough to label him ignorant? What are you smoking?

Unless of course you are walking down the street with a so-called “bai ren” and you hear Chinese people call out and refer to them as “lao wai or or wei guo ren” and then call you “hei ren, hei ren!!! Obviously because of your comparative rarity compared with the white. Most have probably never seen a black man before. Before the white man became so ubiquitous in the region they were openly called “big noses.” Now Chinese have become so use to seeing whites they do not regard their features as nearly so strange anymore.

Still it is extremely rude, but I never said Chinese weren’t rude and inconsiderate. Sadly many of the manners and ordinary decencies people in other parts of the world take for granted are very seriously lacking in many parts of China. Don’t know why that is but it is a fact.

So blacks may on occassion face unacceptable levels of rudeness from Chinese – but I’ve also seen many blacks in Hong Kong getting along just fine at yum cha with Chinese. And among ourselves, I have never heard anyone talking of hating blacks. Sure the stereotype is Africa is backward, but then most people outside Africa have this stereotype – including many American blacks themselves.

As for “hei gui” I suggest you stop trying to play little semantic games across too vastly different languages. Is it any ruder than white ghosts or jap ghosts?

The rest of your post describing the Chinese version of typical redneck good ol boy behaviour simply does not ring true. Chinese hardly ever go out of their way to deliberately provoke a hostile reaction in the way you have described.
This together with your deliberate overuse of ‘brother’ has led me to believe with close to 100percent certainty that you are a subversive, shit-stirring white Anglo hell-bent on sowing discord – in exactly the same vein as the guy who wrote the article which triggered this thread.

July 22, 2008 @ 11:29 am | Comment

@Wayne @AC appreciate you guys earning your 50 cents, I applaud you for your tenacity as you contort my words so as you can genuflect and serve as apologist extraordinaire for these racists….as if I have nothing else to do with my life but come and this board and lie to….. YOU. My comments I hope have at least given some of the readers here an authentic experience based on truth and not rumor. Adieu…..and love the site guys, I read it everyday, just never felt like writing before now.

July 22, 2008 @ 1:52 pm | Comment

@Ra
Thanks for sharing your experience Ra. It has been interesting.

July 22, 2008 @ 2:49 pm | Comment

Off topic warning:

I just saw this piece in the guardian about the smog in beijing

http://tinyurl.com/6kzk64

all standard stuff but then i saw something truly remarkable. at the end of the piece there was footage of beijing people queueing in an orderly fashion to get on a bus. can it be true!?!? or was it just for the cameras? can anyone in beijing verify this?

Cheers

July 22, 2008 @ 3:30 pm | Comment

“‘Hak gwei’ is no more derogatory than ‘baak gwei’ which is frequentnely applied to white people. Both terms in the minds of the average Chinese user bear no real undertones of racial superiority or animus. It could perhaps convey a sense of ‘us’ and ‘them’ at worst.”

sorry – i just saw that and had to laugh. i hope wayne enjoys living in his fantasy world

July 22, 2008 @ 3:34 pm | Comment

sorry – i just saw that and had to laugh. i hope wayne enjoys living in his fantasy world

Si: the fact is the use of gweilao to describe the white man is the norm among Cantonese speakers all over the world. Also common are “gwaitau’ and “baak gwai.” Who bothers to to use the term “saiyan?” Hardly anyone I know. I use the term gweilao (or just gwei).

People will casually say “ngoh bosi hai gwai lao lai ge” (my boss ia white) or some skanky Lan Kwai fong chinese ho might say “nghoh ge naam pang you hai gwai jai” (my boyfiend is white boy). No hostility or contempt implied at all.

If Si is right, Hong Kong for one would be a seething hotbed of frothing anti-white anti-Western racdicalism – which it (perhaps unfortunately) is decidedly not.

Whites generally are not offended by gweilao – not because they are particularly tolerant, but simply because the word does not connote oppression, enslavement and disenfranchisement of white people.

It is not the literal meaning of the term itself which is of overriding significance. It is the context and historical associations which are important.

A Chinese describing a white person as “baak gwai,” is likely far less likely to be a racist than a white person who calls black people “nigger” – despite the fact that “baak gwai” means “white ghost (or devil)” while nigger simply derives from the Spanish word for the color black.

But poor poor Si, all this is simply way beyond your limitations to perceive.

July 22, 2008 @ 5:14 pm | Comment

May I call Chinese colleagues “slanted eyed ghost/devil”?

No offense meant of course 😉

Regards from a white ghost/devil

July 22, 2008 @ 5:53 pm | Comment

indeed ecodelta. it is not the person speaking who decides whether something is insulting, it is the person receiving. I could walk up to a black person and say “Whassup nigger”, but whether they get offended or not is up to them. wayne misses this point. i don’t care if someone does not mean to insult me when they call me a white ghost, or ugly or fat or stupid or lazy or asks how many gfs i have (because all foreigners sleep around, right?) . i find it offensive and demeaning. by labelling people you strip them of their humanity. if you want to avoid pissing people off try using neutral terms. it is this complete absence of the ability to see things from another’s point of view that is the problem.

July 22, 2008 @ 6:06 pm | Comment

Ecodelta: even that peanut sized brain of yours should be able to tell you the answer to that.

In regards to gweilo, the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council “The Council finds that the expression has also lost most of its religious meaning, so that “foreign devil” no longer carries the theological significance it once did. Based on its research, the Council understands that the expression has gone from being considered offensive to, at worst, merely “impolite”

Si: it is not the person speaking who decides whether something is insulting, it is the person receiving. I could walk up to a black person and say “Whassup nigger”, but whether they get offended or not is up to them. wayne misses this point.

you don’t even know where the point is Mr Gweilo. You implied that Chinese are impelled mainly by racist motives when using “baak gwei” or “hak gwei”. I have shown this to be untrue. This is mainly a discussion concerning the purported racism of the Chinese – not about etiquette. Now you obfuscate and start bringing in ‘ugly’ ‘stupid’ ‘fat’ ….the issue is it racism or not racism – get it?

i find it offensive and demeaning. by labelling people you strip them of their humanity yeah yeah yeah go on and spout your shopworn platitudes – all a literal minded simpleton like you is capable of. Get it you 白皮猪

July 22, 2008 @ 7:51 pm | Comment

@wayne
“even that peanut sized brain of yours should be able to tell you the answer to that.”

My , my, my…. Did I touch a sensible nerve?

Peanut sized but a fully working brain nonetheless. 😛

July 22, 2008 @ 7:58 pm | Comment

okay wayne, enough. bye bye.

July 22, 2008 @ 7:58 pm | Comment

I have seen this course of action before when arguing with some chinese persons over controversial issues.

First deny any problematic issue using Ad Hominen.

Then when it does not work Tu Quoque.

And in some instances self induced state of denial.

And if they find themselves loosing the argument, they recourse to blatant insult. Maybe to scare the dialectical opponent?

I have seen this so often that I’am starting to think that it is a standard procedure. Maybe even part of school curricula

July 22, 2008 @ 8:45 pm | Comment

May I call Chinese colleagues “slanted eyed ghost/devil”?

In return the answer is that you’d be a long-nose barbarian. Regardless, the main issue in racism is the power. Honkey, cracker, whitebread, are 100,000,000x less offensive than nigger. Chinaman is also 10,000,000x less offensive than nigger.

If you are so offended by gweilao then you are incredibly thin-skinned. Most whites don’t really understand real racism except those in Zimbabwe and South Africa where it’s absolutely virulent.

As for relations between Chinese and blacks, the main rule is that China owes black people and Africans absolutely nothing. Zero, zilch, shit-at-all, nada. So you should just be glad that you are treated better in China than Chinese/Koreans/Mexicans are treated in America or wherever else and just roll with “punches” (in this case occasional neglible, 100% non-threatening behavior) or whatever.

Or grow some thicker skin.

July 23, 2008 @ 3:37 pm | Comment

that is, better than they’re treated in America by blacks.

July 23, 2008 @ 3:38 pm | Comment

holy shit, late night spelling

*occasional, negligible

sorry

July 23, 2008 @ 3:39 pm | Comment

I mean it has no basis here, there is no history of slavery like we had back at home so I am both astonished and appalled by their behavior.

It’s probably all the Chinese immigrants who witness disparities in crime rates based on race and tell people in China about it.

he knows more about racism there and if it’s “a big deal” or not.

No he doesn’t. He just has a perpetual victim complex like most posters here. He could live in China for 2,000 years and like you he still would not know shit about it. If you spend all your life living a selfish, evil Western lifestyle all you’re going to meet is shitty people.

July 23, 2008 @ 3:51 pm | Comment

Ferin, you leave me no choice. You are toxic and deranged. And banned as well. This time for a long time. Now go to the corner and put on your dunce cap.

July 23, 2008 @ 4:58 pm | Comment

It really does not matter if THIS PARTICUlAR story is true…

Black people as a WHOLE people need to separte themselves…

See what it has gained China… Wealth and World admiration…

FUCK UM! and all athletes should boycott the Olympics… I would not go to someones home knowing that they had no respect for me and my people.

July 24, 2008 @ 4:59 am | Comment

All the Black U.S. Athletes that is… should boycott the China Olympics…

Blacks have been dealing with this nonsense farrrrr to long… Didn’t this same thing pretty much occur with Hitler and the German Olympics…

When is enough; enough and Africans as a WORLD people get!

July 24, 2008 @ 5:01 am | Comment

[…] Granite Studio, via Peking Duck: “YJ checked out the rumor with some people “in the know,” looks like the SCMP pulled this at random off of some BBS. Rumor: BUSTED.” […]

July 24, 2008 @ 9:26 am | Pingback

If you doubt the possibility of the Chinese government asking bartenders not to serve blacks in China then i’d say you really need to get to know more about China.China is the most RACIST country you can ever come across.I still greatly admire the French president for deciding to boycott part of the games.I wish every other president could actually boycott the games completely.China is a shame when it comes to Human Rights and as such they don’t deserve to host the Olympic games.Whether ya white or black remain certain that you’ll be treated as a thing in China not a person.It might not be abvious at the begining but as time goes by you’ll get to know.Think twice if ya considering heading to China and if ya black tear your ticket and stay where u are cuz Chinese are just too stupid to bear it living with smart guys like u around them

July 30, 2008 @ 2:44 pm | Comment

I have seen this thread, and ones just like it for while and i DO agree that the chinese are about the most racist beings on this earth![my GF is mainland chinese!] And this is saying alot, seeing the caucasians and those spanish influenced old colonies of mexico and south america..and its grand northern neighbor, the good old US of A! And they have had many centuries to do in too! Their racists beliefs, are as old as china itself….their mentality, is quite applauling,with the same ideas i have seen..coming from circa 1950’s klu klux klan and jim crow era thinking “giants”.;-) Some [very few!]are coming around and some even tan[but is rare] just as in thailand[another virluent racist chinese haven!]I wish i had more positive postings[maybe in about 50-60 years!], but when books and publications like “Lonelyplanet” and “Fodors” write about this too…watch out! Well, two[or more!] can play this game too! so i have learned some manderin and Pinyin myself, with quite disasterous results, to those that cross my path..hehe. It seems that, where ever they go it seems that supreme ignorance and the superior “Han” mentalities follow. The chinese are such a “commerence” people, as they are always trying to to make business and such, that just now look to africa and now that africa is seeing them for what they are…. They cannot hide who and what they really are…and it does not bode well to be chinese there i think… and saving “face”, and “damage control”, will do them little to no good in these times of the internet age. Adi Amin Dada, had it right to take pride in the african people of uganda, and kicked the racist and bigoted asian and indians out. For too long, the african and blacks spread out have suffered too much hatred, discriminations, and somtimes to violent ends…[mainly US and Brtish, and spanish and most especially the Arabs!]No matter what country they live in..and the chinese “society” is truly despicable! Too bad, that the black people/afro americans/africans do not have this racial pride and recognize, and call the chinese wholly on this behaviors, and at least confront their vast hatred of the black/dark/darker skinned races and oher ethnics. I think the olympics and also thanks to the americans, and other “expats there[caucasians] you will see all come to light sooner, as the chinese have really opened a can of worms here…

July 31, 2008 @ 12:13 pm | Comment

[…] Post) and others in response to my scorpions-on-a-stick media monitoring project, and by The Peking Duck, Huffington Post, and the Time blog in response to my posts on the South China Morning Post story […]

August 25, 2008 @ 8:06 pm | Pingback

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