Christian Science Monitor Olympic Blog

Sure there are a ton of journalist Olympic blogs out there, but in my (semi-biased) opinion, one of the better correspondents in Beijing is the CSM’s Peter Ford. He’s a journalist who has covered stories in Latin America, the Middle East, Europe, and the Soviet Union and he has a knack for getting a story without needing to tart it up or sensationalize the issue at hand.  In the PRC, Peter’s articles are frequently translated/mangled for the Cankao Xiaoxi and the Global Times among other party rags.

The fact that YJ works for the CSM may skew my opinion slightly, but Peter has been linked to enough in this space by Richard and other writers that I feel comfortable plugging their new blog: Olympic Glory.   Check it out.

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Richard Burger is the author of Behind the Red Door: Sex in China, an exploration of China's sexual revolution and its clash with traditional Chinese values.

The Discussion: 45 Comments

Who is YJ, and does he/she have any relevance to the aforementioned blog? Read the whole piece wondering about the mysterious YJ.

July 29, 2008 @ 6:03 am | Comment

Sorry…YJ is the Mrs.

July 29, 2008 @ 7:37 am | Comment

CSM has lost all credibility for me when they covered FLG’s vivisection allegation seriousely during 2006 Hu Jintao Stateside visit.

I smile when supposed Christians worship at the altar of anti-China politics. Didn’t the Bible say you can’t serve two masters?

July 29, 2008 @ 8:17 am | Comment

Christians don’t worship at the “altar of anti-China politics”. Once again you have fallen into the same fallacy as so many other nationalistic Chinese. The fallacy goes like this “He/She/They said something negative involving one part of China, so he/she/they are obviously anti-China!” Those who subscribe to this way of thinking miss two important points:
1. There are negative aspects to every country, including China, America, Britain, and the Kingdom of Tonga. Talking about or discussing those aspects does not mean someone is against that country; many times it means the exact opposite (e.g. large amounts of Americans have vocally opposed racism in the 60′s and the war recently precisely because they care so much about the US).
2. The term “China” covers a huge amount of meaning. “China” include the CCP, as well as students, activists, dissidents, minority groups, ordinary workers, teachers, children, etc. Supposed “anti-China” forces are often against “China” (meaning corrupt or brutal elements of the government), while wholeheartedly supporting “China” (usually those on the lower rungs of the social ladder). However, the foaming ultra-nationalists gloss over this important distinction, simply labeling any laowai who dares offer criticism as “anti-China”.

For American Christians, we wholeheartedly support our Chinese brothers and sisters. And make no mistake about that – we are bound together by ties that are mean much more than any nationality, and which will last long after both China and America have faded away. You’re right, the Bible does command us to serve only one master: that is why the Party has such a problem with the underground church, which refuses to recognize it’s authority in spiritual matters. Furthermore, all true Christians support all those in China, America, or wherever else who are being oppressed or having their human rights abused. This is commanded: “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.” -Proverbs 31:8-9

Where you see only nationalities, we see people. Who is really “anti-China”?

July 29, 2008 @ 12:11 pm | Comment

B, it appear it is you who sees nationalities. I’m American. I ain’t from mainland China and have never been citizen of the PRC a day in my life.

And when I say “Christians”, that include people like Bob Fu from China, who’s citing cult of Christianity like “Three Grades of Servants” in order to make his persecution charge stick. The Three Grades and their rival Eastern Lights have been killing people in order to retain/compete for membership:

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/202-three-grades-of-servants

Appears these good Christians have forsaken “thou shall not bear false witness”.

July 29, 2008 @ 1:59 pm | Comment

Charles:

Its easy to find extremists among every group, and picking isolated examples that do not represent the mainstream is a dubious way to make a point. Pretty much what China does when it publishes its ‘Report on Human Rights in the US.’

Take yourself for example.

Most Chinese I know, both in China and ABCs, are fairly open-minded and honest about China’s successes and failures and challenges. If I only listened to you, I would believe that most Chinese, both here and abroad, were close-minded, had an inferiority complex, and saw even the most honest critique of China as an attack on both China the country and the culture.

As well as someone who couldn’t argue his way out of a paper bag.

July 29, 2008 @ 3:49 pm | Comment

@Charles Liu

It seems we have a new passionate China defender.

Welcome on board. ;-)

July 29, 2008 @ 4:07 pm | Comment

Tell me Charles, have you read the blog? Or are you only interested in derailing threads?

July 29, 2008 @ 4:23 pm | Comment

Si, that is all he’s interested in. Based on his IP address, I think I know who he is.

“Hello,” Charles. (That will seem like a mysterious comment to most of you, but not to Charles.)

July 29, 2008 @ 5:48 pm | Comment

“B, it appear it is you who sees nationalities. I’m American. I ain’t from mainland China and have never been citizen of the PRC a day in my life.”

You’ve probably never even been to the PRC.

July 29, 2008 @ 6:49 pm | Comment

You’re right, the Bible does command us to serve only one master: that is why the Party has such a problem with the underground church, which refuses to recognize it’s authority in spiritual matters.

Maybe — or maybe because the Party recognizes a an institution with many similarities — a house church is, after all, a cell, and a pastor, a cell leader. Lenin modeled his political organization on the early Christian church, the world’s earliest proto-Leninist organizational structure. The structure of authority, belief, and social control in Christianity and Communism has deep similarities. Probably accounts for the high body counts of both belief systems.

I think the whole phenomenon of Christianity in China is absolutely fascinating. Christianity Today had an article a couple of years back on its syncretic nature — many of the Churches that call themselves “Christian” would be considered heretical elsewhere — and the way it incorporates local elements and invention into itself. As a social development it’s fascinating for several reasons — if you look at the Chinese/Confucian nations around China, Christianity has made zero headway (gigantic exception of Korea). Even in the British colonies of Singapore and Hong Kong there is not exactly an abundance of Christians. But in the Communist state, it seems to be growing. Very interesting. I’m wondering if/to what extent the PRC’s suppression of Chinese traditional religions has cleared the way for the possibility of other religions. In Taiwan Christianity remains a minor religion despite prominent involvement of Christian sects with both the KMT (Catholics and Methodists) and the independence movement (Presbyterians) and the fact that several of the island’s presidents have been professing Christians (Lee Teng-hui used to give sermons whenever possible throughout most of his political career).

Michael

July 29, 2008 @ 9:34 pm | Comment

Soviet Union and he has a knack for getting a story without needing to tart it up or sensationalize the issue at hand.

Maybe, but like all Beijing correspondents, he regurgitates PRC positions and talking points on Taiwan. I think Beijing correspondents soak them up just from being in the capital and hearing them repeated all the time. I’ve had a couple of exchanges with him about this problem — once he accused Chen of “ratcheting up tensions” with the PRC whenever he had domestic trouble, which was a PRC talking point and utter bullshit. So I sent him two months worth of headlines from the pro-KMT China Post during the time Chen’s wife was indicted, a particularly trying period, and asked him to show me the “ratcheting.” Heh. The sequence ended with the announcement by the CIA chief in Congress that Taiwan-China relations were at their must serene. No ratcheting at all.

So yes, Ford does tart up stories.

It’s a serious problem we have that great reporters on China turn into crappy ones on Taiwan (Pomfret has the same problem).

Michael

July 29, 2008 @ 9:39 pm | Comment

Michael Turton and B. Smith, I most strongly recommend you read the journalist Adam Minter’s writings on the Catholic Church in mainland China. He is well-connected and most probably the best informed and surely the least biased writer in China on the subject.

July 29, 2008 @ 9:55 pm | Comment

Si, my original comment on CSM and reason for my disapproval is on-topic. The digression you’ll have to credit B Smith.

Oh, sounds like you’r PO’d, not because derailing of threads, but drrailing your agenda.

July 30, 2008 @ 1:00 am | Comment

New Beijing Olympic slogan: “One World, Two Systems”
[ Eine Welt, zwei Systeme ]

“Beijing Toilet” – a six year old’s first impression upon seeing the Bird’s Nest in person.

July 30, 2008 @ 2:08 am | Comment

OK, got it, J. Now I can stop trying to figure out any mysterious connection.

Charles, I’m sure the CSM will miss your subscription!

July 30, 2008 @ 3:55 am | Comment

Michael Turton said: “The structure of authority, belief, and social control in Christianity and Communism has deep similarities. Probably accounts for the high body counts of both belief systems.”

Could you please site the source for your assertion of “high body counts” of Christian belief systems.

For communism the accepted body count is said to be between about 60-80 million and counting. [ REF: The Black Book of Communism ]

How Christians, Mr. Turton? Source please.

“Christianity… in the Communist state, it seems to be growing”

No surprise. It is what ushered in the collapse of the Communist Soviet Union after-all.

“Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute.” -Proverbs 31:8-9

Rank. Death Toll – Cause, Centuries
1. 55 million – Second World War (Nazi Socialism), 20C
2. 40 million – Mao Zedong (Communism), 20C
3. 40 million – Mongol Conquests, 13C
4. 36 million – An Lushan Revolt, 8C
5. 25 million – Fall of the Ming Dynasty, 17C
6. 20 million – Taiping Rebellion, 19C
7. 20 million – American Indians, 15C-19C
8. 20 million – Josif Stalin (Communism), 20C
9. 19 million – Mideast Slave Trade (Islamism), 7C-19C
10. 18 million – Atlantic Slave Trade, 15C-19C
11. 17 million – Timur Lenk, 14C-15C
12. 17 million – British India, 19C
13. 15 million – First World War, 20C
14. 9 million – Russian Civil War, 20C
15. 8 million – Fall of Rome, 3C-5C
16. 8 million – Congo Free State, 19C-20C
17. 7 million – Thirty Years War, 17C
18. 5 million – Russia’s Time of Troubles, 16C-17C
19. 4 million – Napoleonic Wars, 19C
20. 3 million – Chinese Civil War, 20C

July 30, 2008 @ 4:42 am | Comment

The fact of matter is that the Catholic church has far more members than the CCP.
About 1 Billion more. It is this fact that scares the CCP to death without raising a single sword.

This reminds me of the 1987 meeting between Pope John Paul II and Polands Communist president, General Wojciech Jaruzelski in the Vatican. General Jaruzelski was visibly scared to death. He was seen physically shaking, his upper lip was nervously twitching and his forehead was covered with beads of sweat when introduced to the Pope.

Ciao!

July 30, 2008 @ 5:14 am | Comment

Tian Li, your number on American Indians is wrong.

South America is over 20 million, North America is around 10 million. (ref: American Holocaust: Columbus and the Conquest of the New World)

Some scholars have even estimated pre-Columbian population to be over 100 million.

July 30, 2008 @ 5:16 am | Comment

Charles Liu said: “CSM has lost all credibility for me when they covered FLG’s vivisection allegation seriousely during 2006 Hu Jintao Stateside visit.”

So, you worship at the alter of disbelief? Or, do you have factual knowledge that it was all a fictitious story? Source?

Charles Liu said: “I smile when supposed Christians worship at the altar of anti-China politics.”

There is no such thing as “the alter of anti-China politics.” There ARE people who are being MURDERED on the alter of the Chinese Communist Party. You don’t need to be a christian to “beleive” or experience this fact.

How many more millions must die before we learn the final death count by the hands of the Chinese Communist Party?

Mr. Charles Liu!

July 30, 2008 @ 6:59 am | Comment

Could you please site the source for your assertion of “high body counts” of Christian belief systems.

Ummmm….? History? Do we not know any? The conquests of S America, the religious wars of Europe, Crusades, Inquisition, etc

Of course the Communists killed more people. Twentieth century, after the temporal power of Christianity has waned, and with much better weapons than in the good old days. More people to kill, too. Whether you kill ten million or fifty million, your body count is still outrageous.

Of course, it isn’t difficult to look at your list and see Christians hard at work. The Atlantic slave trade was conducted almost entirely by Christians, and Nazi Germany was a Christian nation in which Christians willingly and enthusiastically supported Hitler, as did the Churches they attended. If Christians had actually lived their morality, instead of mouthing it, Hitler, Franco, and Mussolini wouldn’t have lasted ten minutes. Congo Free State was owned by a Christian king, American slavery was defended by the mainstream Christian churches, etc.

It seems that Christian morality really doesn’t mean much in practice, Tian Li. The reality of history is that the vast majority of Christians are as delighted to pillage and murder their way across the world as anyone else is, even more so, since they can spread their religion thereby.

Michael

July 30, 2008 @ 7:32 am | Comment

The conquests of S.America was as a result of Christian belief? Hardly. It was the result of the Euro-Kings – the result of the selfish desire for gold! It had nothing to do with “Christian belief”.

The Crusades was an entirely justified war against an equally, if not more so, brutal Islamic jihad. Do YOU not know history? To state this particular subject as a defense makes me question your historical knowledge not to mention your motive.

The death count from the “Spanish” Inquisition is far overblown by the present Liberal professors who are content to write history in an anti-Christian light. I can not find the source at this moment but I recall recent research stating about 1000 (thousand) dead. How many died in Tiananmen on June 4th? Ask a Liberal professor.

Again, the Atlantic slave trade was not conducted in the name of Christianity. No where is slavery coded or even condoned in the Christian text. Unlike the slave trade in the middle-east where it is written into the Koran! And Mao’s little Red Book where his Communist worship enslaves everyone!

Hitler despised Christians equally with the Jews! Your statement reveals your complete ignorance of factual Nazi history. You are now simply parroting propaganda lies that originated from Communist Russia.

To justify the murders committed and still being committed by the worst regime in the entire history of the world, The Chinese Communist Party, because of “murders” committed by “so called” Christians, Muslims, Nazis, Pagans, Athiests, The insane, etc…, long ago is morally apprehensible. It is especially indignant when no where in Christian text is slavery or murder considered part of its faith – NO WHERE! It is on the contrary. Unlike Islam and Mao’s little Red Book. BTW – Islam’s Koran is explicitly coded with Imperial Conquest. Not so in Christian text – No Where!

Crimes committed by so called “Christians” is not MY issue here. NO! – It is the murders, crimes and the immorality of the present day Chinese Communist Party AND HER DEFENDERS I take issue with! The anti-thesis of Christianity!

How many more must die Mr. Michael Turton? 1 Million? 2 Million?…

July 30, 2008 @ 9:56 am | Comment

Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) stated that his office had been contacted by lawyers for international hotel chains who informed him that the Chinese Public Security Bureau (PSB) ordered foreign-owned hotels to install Internet monitoring equipment. Brownback provided documents showing that hotels were asked to cooperate with the Chinese government.

“The Chinese government has demanded that these hotels allow the PSB to install software programs and hardware devices on the hotel networks,” Brownback said. “These measures are designed to assist the PSB to spy on the Internet activities of guests and record websites visited, searches entered and even keystrokes. The text alludes to harsh punishment for failure to comply with the order, including loss of license to operate a hotel in China.”

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/brownback-china-preparing-spy-attack-during-olympics-2008-07-29.html

July 30, 2008 @ 10:53 am | Comment

As someone who just spent four years writing a book focused on the history of modern China, I am disturbed by the China-Bashing Syndrome that is becoming popular now. No one approves of repression, pollution, or corruption, but China bashers seem to be oblivious to the fact that “new” China is only six decades old, and “modern” China is really only two decades along its path. That’s after 4,000 years of feudalism and war. In working on the new Random House book “The Man on Mao’s Right,” with author Ji Chaozhu, I was amazed at the profound misinformation and misperception that pervades American attitudes toward China. And, I would add, hypocrisy. How easy it is to forget that while criticizing China for suppressing free speech, our own government illegally spied on us and disseminated false information to justify military adventurism. How easy it is to criticize China for pollution when we welcomed the rapid industrialization of China because it caused our own productivity to soar and tremendous wealth to be created. How easy it is for Americans to criticize China for beefing up its military when American-made weapons are being supplied to a rogue regime in the Chinese province of Taiwan, and to nearby Japan which, 65 years later, still has not officially apologized for the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent Chinese citizens during World War II. This pile-on bashing is based on a superficial understanding of China and its people, and ignores the most important factor of all: China is not yet a stable society and all of the problems we see, they see and live with every day. China’s revolution is not yet over, just as America’s was not yet over when it was 59 years old, in 1835, when our greatest test, the War Between the States, was yet to be fought and the fate of the nation yet to be decided. The People’s Republic has a long way to go and I hope in time we in the West will look past the easy targets and find ways to lead China into the 21st century, as opposed to beating a drowning dog, a Chinese expression not unlike “kicking someone when they’re down.”

July 30, 2008 @ 12:14 pm | Comment

Liberal Fascist propaganda lie #1

“our own government illegally spied on us”

LOL! I guess the Communist Chinese click have cut off your internet access.

Liberal Fascist propaganda lie #2

“disseminated false information to justify military adventurism.”

LOL! I guess the Communist Chinese click have cut off your internet access for a long time.

Liberal Fascist propaganda lie #3

“How easy it is to criticize China for pollution when we welcomed the rapid industrialization of China because it caused our own productivity to soar and tremendous wealth to be created.”

How easy it is for Liberal Fascists like the Al Gore click to criticise the U.S. when she is 16 times more energy efficient than “Communist” China and produces 6 times the GDP with the same unit of energy as “Communist” China. “Communist” China is the largest spewer of green house gasses than any other country in the world – period. [Hello Al? Mr. Al Gore? Heeelllloooo! Are you there? Knock knock - anybody home?]

Liberal Fascist propaganda lie #4

“criticize China for beefing up its military”

The “Communist” Chinese click have now placed about 1000 missles pointed at Taiwan, adding 100 more every year. WHY? Is Taiwan poised to invade Communist China? LOL!

Liberal Fascist propaganda lie #5

“American-made weapons are being supplied to a rogue regime in the Chinese province of Taiwan”

“Rogue” & “Regime” – bwAHAHAHA!!! Hillarious!

FYI: Taiwan is legally a U.S. Military Territory – SHOCK! OMG!

Liberal Fascist propaganda lie #6

“Japan which, 65 years later, still has not officially apologized for the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent Chinese citizens during World War II.”

I seem to personally recall that she indeed has appologized. When will the “Communist” China click appologize to the 60 million dead? The Tiananmen dead?

The Chinese people will never be free and prosper until she rids herself of the slave shackles placed on her by the foreign idea of Communism imported from Russia. An idea which is essentially extinct everywhere else in the world.

You said you were writing a book. Will it be available on the Communist mainland? In Chinese? Is it titled a little red propaganda book?

Are you R. Foster Winans (born August 5, 1948) convicted of insider trading and mail fraud. Indicted by then-U.S. Attorney Rudolph Giuliani and convicted in 1985 of violating Federal law by leaking advance word of the contents of your columns to a stockbroker, Peter N. Brant, at Kidder, Peabody & Co., an old-line brokerage firm. Served nine months in federal prison?

ET phone home!

July 30, 2008 @ 12:57 pm | Comment

How easy it is for Americans to criticize China for beefing up its military when American-made weapons are being supplied to a rogue regime in the Chinese province of Taiwan

LOL. We’re not a Chinese province yet, loser. And we need those weapons because the misunderstood and victimized Chinese are working out their regime instabilities and psychological inferiorities on the Taiwanese.

Michael

July 30, 2008 @ 1:19 pm | Comment

Crimes committed by so called “Christians” is not MY issue here. NO! – It is the murders, crimes and the immorality of the present day Chinese Communist Party AND HER DEFENDERS I take issue with! The anti-thesis of Christianity!

Tian, read more carefully. First, Christianity was an important driver and exploiter and destroyer of colonialism within and without Europe. And that is really the key — you claim moral ascendancy for your faith, but in reality Christians are as rapacious as anyone else. More so. Without Christianity there would have been no religious wars, no Crusades, and far less colonialism — note that China, lacking the universalist ideology of Christianity, has never set up colonies across the planetary surface. Christianity, with its desire to make the whole world into Christians, is fundamentally a colonialist project of the first order. Of course, though few outside the circles of atheists and secular humanism make the connection, the perpetual worship of strongmen and longing for authoritarian solutions, no doubt owes something to the politics of Christianity. It is symptomatic that loathing for Bush was widespread among humanist groups, but right-wing and conservative Christians loved him.

I do not know what the death toll for what the Inquisition was, nor does it matter, ten thousand or ten million, all add up to infinity — and tell it to the Albigensians and other “heretics” who were murdered throughout Christian history for the crime of being different. Yours is a cannibal orthodoxy.

Communism is not the ANTI-THESIS of Christianity but instead is Christianity with the serial numbers filed off –

house church = cell
pastor = cell leader
bishop = political commissar
dogma = doctrine
god = objective laws of history
heaven = workers paradise

and so on. There’s absolutely no difference in structure between the two, it is just that communism has not had time to undergo the long process of secularization that modern Christianity has, absorbing Enlightenment values and reconstructing them as “Christian.” Both worship transcendent Absolutes in whose name they kill — absolutists, whether they worship God, allah, the state, the objective laws of history — are always butchers. That is why you always read headlines like “Muslims, Christians Clash, six dead” but never “Austin Freethinkers assault secular humanists, eight dead.”

Michael

July 30, 2008 @ 1:31 pm | Comment

Foster,

You’re a professional ghostwriter, not a historian. Don’t misrepresent yourself. Number 2: You’ve been spamming/cut & pasting the same message onto multiple sites. There’s a word for that.

July 30, 2008 @ 2:19 pm | Comment

hi charles

“CSM has lost all credibility for me when they covered FLG’s vivisection allegation seriousely during 2006 Hu Jintao Stateside visit.

I smile when supposed Christians worship at the altar of anti-China politics. Didn’t the Bible say you can’t serve two masters?”

“Oh, sounds like you’r PO’d, not because derailing of threads, but drrailing your agenda.”

i criticised you because you came on and dismissed the blog without having read it. what does “po’d” mean – not familiar with the term. as for serving two masters, don’t you know the phrase “render unto caesar…”?

July 30, 2008 @ 3:27 pm | Comment

@Michael: I think you have a pretty one-sided interpretation of history. When you look back and see anyone who was even remotely connected to a country or peoples that were culturally or traditionally Christian, you assume that everything wrong they did was done in the name of Christianity, or because of it. That assertion is ridiculous. It is like saying that because America is a democracy, and because America once had slaves, democracy is responsible for all slavery, and is therefore bad. Anyone with any sense can see that slavery was not done because of democracy, but in spite of it. Bad people can twist even the best of things to their own selfish ends. Biblical Christianity states that if someone hits you in the face, you turn the other cheek, and commands that we love all men as ourselves. If real Christians fail to do this, that is a human failing – not a failing of Christianity.

In a similar vein, Communism as an ideology is not always inherently bad. The difference is that Christianity – Biblically practiced – produces many good things: youth centers, missionaries bringing food and production techniques to poor villages, support for schools (the one I currently teach at was built for the Thais free of charge), hospitals, etc; whereas Communism, while fixing some problems, almost always creates a lot more problems.

And as to your assertion that atheists or secularists never cause any wars or violence – well, you must not be familiar with the leadership of China for the last 60 years. Once again, bad people will always do bad things no matter what, and use whatever ideology, religion, or lack thereof that is available to justify it.

With all of that said, I offer no defense for “Christians” who participated in the slave trade, killed off the Native Americans, and tortured people who didn’t agree with them. Those actions were absolutely and totally wrong, and as a Christian, I believe that those responsible will answer for their actions, as will all of us.

(Sorry, Richard, if this is way too off topic!)

July 30, 2008 @ 3:42 pm | Comment

Modern liberals need to understand how the American communist movement flip-flopped on issues as grave as Nazism and World War II based entirely on whether Hitler was signing a non-aggression pact with Stalin or invading Stalin’s Soviet Union. The disgusting about-face by Communist Party USA on this matter was unforgivable. And what a shame that liberal college professors don’t teach this to their students. Liberals also need to know how their friends inside government were used by communists who sought victory for Mao Tse-Tung in China in 1949, which would lead to the single greatest concentration of corpses in human history: 60-70 million dead Chinese from 1957 to 1969.

Liberals=Fascists=Communists are MURDERERS!

Barack Obama doesn’t want you to know that his childhood mentor was a Stalinist member of a communist network in Hawaii. In fact, his book, Dreams From My Father, confirms that a mysterious “Frank” was a mentor, and that he was a significant influence over Obama.

His white grandfather helped raise Obama by selecting Frank Marshall Davis, a black communist writer and poet, as a father-figure and role model while he was growing up in Hawaii. His values, passed on to Obama, were those of a communist agent who pledged allegiance to Stalin. Among other things, as Obama himself admits in his book, “Frank” told him that blacks had a reason to hate whites and that he should not believe that [expletive deleted] about the American way of life. Davis was an influence over Obama during the years 1975-1979. His “poetry” is viciously anti-American and pro-Soviet. And yet Obama listened to it growing up. Th is when Obama was 14-18 years old. That’s an important period of one’s life, especially in Obama’s case because of the absence of his father.

This is in the same vein how Michael Turton justifies his hatred of Christianity. It is not because he knows the facts or any the truth. It is because he “beleives” the old Communist Russian proapagnda lies about Christianity which is still propagated by the Liberal Fascists today.

There is no sense in argueing with these types. They will not, can not reason with facts or truths. History no just unknown to them. It is no longer relevant to them and is simply a tale to be rewritten at will to suite their agenda – “Change We Can Beleive In”.

They do not read books. They read the internet. They do not have a broad based pool of knowledge or experience or do they have intelligent mentors with experience and wisdom with whom they can hone sharp analytical skills. They do not have the capacity to do so. Such is the result of brainwashing.

What about Obama associating with communist terrorists Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn and anti-American preacher Jeremiah Wright? What about a pattern of associations with communists and socialists that runs from Hawaii to Occidental College to Columbia University to Chicago?

All the above notes have one thing in common. The Communist Party. What Liberals-Fascists and Communist do very well is highjack any cause which will either facilitate their agenda or provide cover. If it can not be highjacked they simply condemn it with propaganda lies – Christianity.

For Mr. Michael Turton and others like him, they can not see the agenda or the cover for they are blind – Useful Idiots.

July 31, 2008 @ 3:59 am | Comment

To Charles Liu and for the record;

The cause of death for the very vast majority of the American Indians was not the swords and guns carried by the Europeans. But by the unintentional passing on of diseases of which the American Indians had no immunity.

Now ask yourself how many Europeans died at the hands of American Indians, Islamic jihadists and Communists?

July 31, 2008 @ 4:16 am | Comment

!

July 31, 2008 @ 4:38 am | Comment

A wise man once told me that if you put enough tin foil inside your fedora the CIA can no longer read your mind.

July 31, 2008 @ 4:41 am | Comment

There is a saying in Chinese 各有好处.

That’s probably the best way to describe it.

Unfortunately, Scott can’t see past the end of his nose to recognize it.

July 31, 2008 @ 1:16 pm | Comment

Christianity is a good thing for people, it at least gives them guidelines and advice, not clouded laws and threats.

August 1, 2008 @ 3:57 am | Comment

Obama Music Video – Macho Man of Change

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-VSVwlPAj0

August 1, 2008 @ 9:26 am | Comment

I prefer the pro-CCP trolls to the Bush-wingnut trolls. Where is Math when you need him?

August 2, 2008 @ 3:07 pm | Comment

@ Tian Li

What a rant against Obama. I like McCain but a vote for him is a vote to continue the pro-Wall St, pro-executive con artist, pro-war profiteering administration of Darth Cheney and Emporer Rumsfeld.

August 3, 2008 @ 8:04 am | Comment

@ Tian Li, you also seem to have China’s false communism confused with the reality of its feudalism.

August 3, 2008 @ 8:06 am | Comment

@ Tian Li,

I ‘m a big fan! Please come here and post ofen.

“The cause of death for the very vast majority of the American Indians was not the swords and guns carried by the Europeans. But by the unintentional passing on of diseases of which the American Indians had no immunity.”

See I’m learning something everyday!

Care to explain why it wasn’t the other way around? Or it’s just God wanted this way?

August 7, 2008 @ 6:50 am | Comment

tian li:
我认为你把共产党妖魔化了,不知道你是受到了什么媒体的误导,作为一个生长在中国的普通人民,我看到你这种言论感觉很难过。
共产主义只是一种意识形态。文化大革命也好,改革开放也好,两种不同的结果是由于领导人的不同造成的。即使是现在我们中国人在谈论毛泽东的时候也认为他是功过并存的,由于他战略的成功,中国才能成功击退侵略者,成为一个独立的国家。成功击击退这句话很简单,但事实上是非常艰难的。我的祖父就参加过这场战争,抗日战争、内战、朝鲜战争,这些战争的胜利都在军备和物资与对手实力悬殊的情况下获得的,如果没有中国人民坚强的意志和优秀的领导人,这必定是个“不可能完成的任务”。
再说说邓小平,毫无疑问他是非常伟大睿智的,他结束了灾难性的文化大革命,提出了改革开放,并在与英国的谈判中成功收回了香港主权,在谈判中邓小平有段话就是“主权问题是不能谈判的,中国在1997年收回香港的问题是不能谈判的”,这种魄力有谁能及?一国两制这种构想除了他又有谁能提出?当邓小平提出将穷破的深圳设立为经济特区时有多少外国媒体和政客在等着看中国的笑话,而他们现在看到的中国无疑是令他们沮丧的(我非常的尊敬邓小平,每次想到他没有活着看到香港回归就难过不已)。
和每个国家的人民一样,中国的大部分老百姓并不关心政治如何,我们只关心生活是否有保障,社会是否安定,收入能否提高。事实上,共产党也确实做到这些,尽管不是那么尽善尽美,但中国的百姓还是对我们的政府给予肯定的。相信奥运会结束后世界能够更加了解中国,众多对中国的谣言和中伤都能不攻自破了。

August 7, 2008 @ 11:39 am | Comment

Wow… I can see why this discussion would get off-topic quickly. I understand that much of what occurs in the Olympics is an issue of international political importance (go here for 2008 Beijing Summer Olympics ebooks, which include books about the role the Olympics have played in world politics). I came here looking for information about the Olympics and found a social, moral and political discussion! Fair enough. One really good thing about the Beijing Olympics: they’re getting people to start talking about important issues.

August 7, 2008 @ 11:13 pm | Comment

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