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Hacked By AdGhosT

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The martyrdom of Jin Jing » The Peking Duck

The martyrdom of Jin Jing

pieta4.jpg

JinJing_Torch.jpg

[Note: This is a continuation of the post immediately below.]

Wait. I am not equating Jin Jing with Jesus or Mary. I am making the point that to hundreds of millions of Chinese around the world the image of Jin Jing in what apears to be a state of grace has an emotional appeal that parallels that which Christians (and even non-Christians such as myself) feel when looking at Michaelangelo’s Pieta. Whether I believe or not, the emotional impact of both images is undeniable. And whether either Mary or Jin Jing deserve to be viewed with such religious awe is irrelevant to my point, which is simply this: the image of Jin JIng has created an unprecedented flood of emotional patriotism and religious ecstasy among Chinese people all around the world.

The photo may have been stage-managed and her story embellished in the Lei Feng style. I don’t know, but based on past CCP deifications I’d be inclined to think it has. But that’s also irrelevant in terms of effect. Leni Riefenstahl’s Triumph of the Will is all about stage management and manufactured emotion, yet it achieved all of her and Joseph Goebbels’ objectives (mass hypnosis, idolization, turning the fuehrer into a cult figure, etc.).

So the picture of Jin JIng stands and it has worked its miracle, fair or not. I had dinner with a Chinese friend last night who told me there hasn’t been anything quite like it in his lifetime. Everone’s talking about it, especially friends and families overseas. It’s strengthening the bonds between these people and their mainland counterparts The Chinese people have rarely felt more unified, And this is not a personal theory of mine based on anecdotal evidence. From Canada’s Globe and Mail.

It was a moment so perfect that it could have been scripted by Beijing’s propaganda masters. A beautiful young Chinese woman, bravely ignoring her physical handicap, is shielding the Olympic flame with her body to protect it against Western attackers.

The incident, captured on video, has galvanized China’s masses and created a new national hero. A star has been born, and she is 27-year-old Jin Jing of Shanghai, an amputee in a wheelchair who was carrying the Olympic torch in Paris this week when she was confronted by protesters who wrestled for the torch.

The one-legged Paralympic fencing champion, whose picture has been splashed across front pages in China, has become an iconic image of everything the Chinese want to believe about the innocence of their country and the dastardliness of the West.

All week she has been mobbed by fans and glorified in the Chinese media, who dubbed her the “smiling angel in a wheelchair” and “saviour of the national honour.”

Her fans describe her as fearless and modest. “She has captured the hearts of millions of Chinese people,” the state news agency says. As for Ms. Jin, she smiles sweetly and then says, of the protesters, “I despise them.”

….There is mounting evidence — in Internet chat rooms, on the streets and everywhere else where public opinion can be measured — that the Chinese Communist Party has gained popularity and strength as a result of the violence and chaos of the past month.

It might be facing an Olympic opening ceremony boycott and mounting criticism from abroad, but the government has largely succeeded in mobilizing its 1.3 billion people into a unified force, giving it the domestic legitimacy it craves for its survival.

This brings me back to the headline of my earlier post and whether the events of the past week have been a PR disaster for China. They certainly started off that way. But I still believe it is much too early to determine the net effect of the media coverage of China’s Olympic-related activities. Yesterday I would have said the scales tipped slightly toward the disaster side. Now, as I see the news out of Argentina, I’d say the scale is about even. And remember, I am not talking about a scale of right or wrong, but of public perception.

What lies ahead is a huge question mark. I’ve always felt the government was hoisting itself on its own petard by saying it would open up the country to the media – a promise I can’t imagine them keeping (thus far they’ve done a pretty poor job of it). They may well get pulverized by the global media. But we saw this week that they are adept at turning the pulverization into a national rallying cry. Maybe it was pure luck that Jin JIng happened to be attacked the way she was. In any case, it was a gift from heaven for the CCP, like Bin Laden’s video right before the 2004 election was to George Bush.

Tibet. It popped up out of nowhere, All eyes were on Darfur as the huge thorn in China’s side, and suddenly Mia Farrow has been wholly overshadowed by the Dalai Lama. And that’s good for China in terms of support from its citizens. Tibet is an issue the Chinese are passionate about. Some Chinese I know had never even heard of Darfur and certainly felt no emotional attachment to the issues there. Tibet is another story. Watching the issue galvanize the country is astonishing. The way the situation is being manipulated might be comparable to the effectiveness of the Nuremberg rallies, but the effectiveness in and of itself is indisputable.

Shortly before the Olympic Games, China will also be hosting the Paralympic Games. I’ll put down money that Jin Jing will be making a strongly publicized appearance. (A side benefit, I hope, would be greater tolerance and compassion for the handicapped here in China. You so rarely see anyone in a wheelchair here in Beijing.)

______________

Richard Burger is the author of Behind the Red Door: Sex in China, an exploration of China's sexual revolution and its clash with traditional Chinese values.

The Discussion: 146 Comments

@raj a kevin

Have a look at this article

http://www.brendanoneill.net/

Invasion of the (chinese) robotic thugs!

Food for thought

April 13, 2008 @ 4:45 pm | Comment

Richard,

Here is the article I think Kevin was talking about:

http://tinyurl.com/44oknl

It’s from the BBC and partly says:

“Former Olympic champion Lord Coe, who is now the head of the organising committee for the 2012 London Games, described them as “horrible”.

“They tried to push me out of the way three times. They did not speak English. They were thugs.”

It continues:

“But at least one of the celebrities charged with carrying the torch in London, TV presenter Konnie Huq, was unhappy with the treatment she received.

“They were barking orders at me, like ‘Run! Stop! This! That!’ and I was like, ‘Oh my gosh, who are these people?'”

I actually read an article that stated that one of the torch bearers had a pro-Tibet head band or something and the “guards” ripped it from his/her hands and started shouting “No! No! No!”

Try to find that later

April 13, 2008 @ 5:06 pm | Comment

test

April 13, 2008 @ 5:19 pm | Comment

Read these great comments by the Chinese ambassador!

http://tinyurl.com/55d7ao

According to BBC political correspondent, Laura Kuenssberg, officials from the British Foreign Office suggest that one way to settle disputes about biased reporting would be for China to allow the international press free access to Tibet.

But Ms Fu says that Western media has to earn China’s “respect”.

Ah, yes. Kowtow three times to Chinese officials and ask them what news stories they would like reported and which not. The foreign media doesn’t need to earn China’s respect in the slightest – that’s a very poor way of saying it needs to censor itself when the government says so.

I think it would be more productive if China focused on making its own media respected in the international community, rather than the sick joke that it is now.

April 13, 2008 @ 5:23 pm | Comment

richard, have you put some sort of censorship thing on the comments? I can post any messages fine, apart from ones using certain words.

April 13, 2008 @ 5:27 pm | Comment

richard

http://tinyurl.com/6e9hoq

Matt Whitticase, of the Free Tibet Campaign, said: “It beggars belief that personnel from the PAP were allowed on to the streets of London at all, let alone that they were allowed to push Metropolitan Police around.

And before you dismiss what he says, I did see it reported elsewhere (though you’ll forgive if I don’t trawl through the last week of material) and I haven’t seen it denied either.

April 13, 2008 @ 5:28 pm | Comment

http://tinyurl.com/5gb9vo

Former Olympic champion Lord Coe, who is now the head of the organising committee for the 2012 London Games, described them as “horrible”.

“They tried to push me out of the way three times. They did not speak English. They were thugs.”

http://tinyurl.com/5v5y6g

Human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell was arrested by the police when he staged his own protest over China’s policies in Tibet.

He said of the Chinese guards: “I saw them jostling and pushing people. Then, in Whitehall, they were throwing protesters to the ground. I got the impression these men were highly-trained and highly-disciplined military types. And they seemed to be in charge. It was shocking that Chinese agents effectively took precedence over the Met.”

April 13, 2008 @ 5:28 pm | Comment

Comments working better now, but for some reason it kept refusing to post that all in one go.

April 13, 2008 @ 5:29 pm | Comment

Richard, found more.

Here is an IHT article:
http://tinyurl.com/6d2dq4

“In London, Sebastian Coe, chairman of the 2012 Olympics organizing committee and a two-time Olympic gold medalist, called them “thugs,” British media reported. One torch-bearer, Konnie Huq, described them as aggressive. “They were very robotic, very full on, and actually I noticed them having skirmishes with our own police and the Olympic authorities before our leg of the relay,” she said on BBC Radio 4.”

Wall Street Journal:
http://tinyurl.com/3moacp

“”I have no idea who they were,” said Marie Lajus, spokeswoman for the Paris police. Ms. Lajus said the Chinese security men rarely interacted with French police when the flame weaved through Paris streets amid throngs of protesters. Several times, the security men confiscated the torch from the torch-bearers and extinguished the flame for reasons that remain unclear, Ms. Lajus added.”

April 13, 2008 @ 5:32 pm | Comment

Re: Western media “earning” Chinese respect:

Very worrying. Given the compromises many Western corporations have made to gain access to the Chinese market, who’s to say that in decades to come, most major Western meda companies won’t have agreed to neuter their China coverage in order that they gain access to the Chinese market?

Murdoch wasn’t the first, and I fear he won’t be the last.

April 13, 2008 @ 5:50 pm | Comment

some guy

Or indeed they may demand a positive spin when it comes to reporting on China and have regular “meetings” with officials.

April 13, 2008 @ 6:16 pm | Comment

If you remove those capitalized words, the first sentence is incomplete. I still can’t get what your point is.

Soory about that. How about you photoshop the image to replace the tank with your best picture and then send it to CNN? 🙂

April 13, 2008 @ 7:08 pm | Comment

“Confiscated the torch.” I have no idea what that means. I
‘m not defending these guys. I just want to get through the emotional clutter and ascertain, did they or did they not do improper things. They certainly looked like goons to me, but then again, so do any bodyguards surrounding someone and pushing back anyone who tries to get too close and throw stuff or assault the person they are protecting. I guess no one can find that aforementioned photograph…? Any photos at all of them hurting anyone or doing improper, anything at all. Just askin’…

Quoting Human Rights Watch about anything related to Tibet is like quoting a Falun Gong leader on religious freedom in China. Then, to quote someone from the Free Tibet movement is simply self-parody. Seriously, if those are the best sources we can come up with…

I am willing to condemn these guys if I see more than anecdotal evidence of actual wrongdoing. There were a lot of threats and attacks in London and Paris, and if the most that can be said is that they pushed someone or asked for the torch back to protect it then I would say on the whole they did an okay job. And it’s not a job I envy – there was no way they could not be seen as thugs. Think about it. Ever see a celebrity surrounded by bodyguards? I have, and I always thought they looked like thugs, especially as they push out of their way people who try to break through to the guy they are protecting. It sounds to me like they were rude and pushy.

When it comes to the blue-shirted goons, all I want to know is what happened? Did they hurt anyone and do anything bad other than push someone at a tense moment or take back the torch because they thought they were protecting it? Because I get the strong feeling some simply want to find them guilty to justify their own belief systems. Yeah, it sounds like they were rude. Definitely. But look at what they were facing. If one torchbearer out of hundreds (or even two) says they look like thugs, does that make them thugs?

April 13, 2008 @ 8:00 pm | Comment

These Chinese go back to China after receiving a lofty education at the expense of American taxpayers. So quit believing every Chinese in the US, etc is because they actually think living standards, etc are better.

I didn’t say that, I asked why he was still living in the US. And I can’t remember him saying he was a student – maybe I’m wrong on that.

Nothing the Chinese gov said against Western media was as effective as the crappy-biased reporting everyone in China could so blatantly see during these events. And now everyone is skeptical about anything that comes out of the US, europe, etc.

Ah, right, and I guess before Chinese people were on our side? Yeah, right! Come on, we know the score. Those Chinese who are interested in this sort of stuff were mostly already anti-Europe/North America/et al. They have been complaining about the foreign media since they got the internet. Those who are open-minded enough to read and consider what is reported without prejudice are relatively small in number.

And as has been said, the hypocricy of denouncing the foreigner media is laughable. The Chinese media does far worse, yet Chinese nationalists lap it up without question.

Pull the beam from your own eye before you point to the speck in mine.

April 13, 2008 @ 8:53 pm | Comment

Dana, I had to delete your comments for their personal and insulting content. If you didn’t notice, I am trying to look at this from all sides. If you think this site is about demonizing China and saying bad things about it, you are totally wrong. I am trying very hard to overcome my own prejudices – and we all have our prejudices. When I first saw the guys in blue with their sunglasses I instantly thought of words like goon and thug and brutes. But were they? If you read carefully, I am not saying they were goons or thugs – I am asking people to tell me why they see them that way and to provide evidence. Because I know we are inclined to let emotions take over our sense of reality. Because I know that I saw them as thugs, too, but when I took a step back I asked myself what they were there for, and what they could have done to not look like thugs.

Dana, you got it totally, totally wrong.

April 13, 2008 @ 9:06 pm | Comment

If one just looks at major western countries and what happened in London and Paris, then it’s a disaster. For example, one in four Americans surveyed are considering not watching the Summer Olympics. However, few people in the West paid attention to successful relays at Almaty, St. Petersburg, Istanbul and Buenos Aires.

As to Chinese security guards as thugs, I am wondering why it seems that they are much more hated than Blackwater employees?

April 13, 2008 @ 10:10 pm | Comment

Richard, here’s an AP wire story that ran on Yahoo.

http://tinyurl.com/5hzx7h

“Yolaine De La Bigne, a French environmental journalist who was a torchbearer in Paris, told The Associated Press she tried to wear a headband with a Tibetan flag, but the Chinese agents ripped it away from her.

“It was seen and then, after four seconds, all the Chinese security pounced on me. There were at least five or six (of them). They started to get angry” and shouted “No! No! No!” in English, she said.”

I’ve found other articles such as these two from The Telegraph and Metro.co.uk:

http://tinyurl.com/5rp7dj
http://tinyurl.com/4tlem6

Those two articles say the blue suits belong to the same group who “crushed Tibet.” Take them for what they’re worth.

April 13, 2008 @ 10:14 pm | Comment

Richard, here’s an AP wire story that ran on Yahoo.

http://tinyurl.com/5hzx7h

“Yolaine De La Bigne, a French environmental journalist who was a torchbearer in Paris, told The Associated Press she tried to wear a headband with a Tibetan flag, but the Chinese agents ripped it away from her.

“It was seen and then, after four seconds, all the Chinese security pounced on me. There were at least five or six (of them). They started to get angry” and shouted “No! No! No!” in English, she said.”

April 13, 2008 @ 10:15 pm | Comment

Must be the number of links I was using.

I’ve found other articles such as these two from The Telegraph and Metro.co.uk:

http://tinyurl.com/5rp7dj
http://tinyurl.com/4tlem6

Those two articles say the blue suits belong to the same group who “crushed Tibet.” Take them for what they’re worth.

April 13, 2008 @ 10:17 pm | Comment

Are you aware that no torchbearers are permitted to exhibit any brand names, flags, political slogans? I agree, the way they acted was thuggish. Or, since she has a definite political bent, maybe her description is exaggerated, I don’t know. No one saw it but her. The article by Richard Spencer, one of my favorite journalists, repeats exactly what I think was what actually happened – when things got rough, the goons pushed some people away. Very bad to push. But I’ve seen bodyguards do the exact same thing. It depends on the filters through which we see them. Looking at the Metro article you cite, I don’t see the slightest implication of wrongdoing. I actually think the Metro article is quite positive and complimentary toward them. I am still waiting to hear even a single objective criticism that isn’t from a Free Tibet or Human Rights Watch spokesperson, or from a torchbearer who was trying to wear a Tibet flag. Nothing. Were those really the best articles you could find detailing their brutality. The most damning sentence in the Metro article is, “Judging by their behaviour so far, however, their training manual could well have read: ‘Conveniently, it is the local custom around the world to put anyone waving a Tibetan flag in a headlock.'” And yet nowhere does the article say they did this, nor have I seen any photos of them doing this, although every single step was videotaped and photographed.

So the men were, according to the AP article, robotic and gruff and a lot of people thought they looked like thugs. I think they deserve criticism if indeed they pushed some people and shouted. I think the comparisons with Nazis that I’ve seen on several blogs and articles is simply deranged and insulting to the victims of Nazis, who weren’t just pushed or shouted at to step back.

This has now gone way off topic. I think we all know where the other stands on the men in blue. I am still completely willing to concede your point, Heiney, as soon as I see evidence they did serious wrong. For now, it looks to me that they acted like boorish, overly aggressive bodyguards who harmed no one but startled some with their brusqueness.

April 13, 2008 @ 10:50 pm | Comment

@nanhe

The Tibetans:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8147435

the Xiongnu:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1180365

A majority (89%) of the Xiongnu sequences can be classified as belonging to an Asian haplogroup (A, B4b, C, D4, D5 or D5a, or F1b), and nearly 11% belong to European haplogroups (U2, U5a1a, and J1).

Sino-Tibetan Linguistics:
http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/may/SinoTibetanLanguageFamily.htm

White people from SE Europe are the legitimate occupiers of the land China illegally infests:

So your agenda is revealed. Talk to the Xiongnu about it.. China left the Tocharians alone and even protected them for thousands of years until the Uighur and Xiongnu kicked the Tocharians out and absorbed some of them.

The Sino-Tibetan peoples were in Xinjiang LONG before the Tocharians, as they underwent autochthonic evolution at the Kunlun mountains.

April 13, 2008 @ 11:19 pm | Comment

Richard, it is simply the media making mountains out of molehills. The complaint from all the Free Tibet types is that they acted like the fuzz they were.

Speaking of media biases, take a look at this article in the daily telegraph by the Chinese ambassador.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/04/12/do1210.xml

Note at the very top there is a link to a news story about the editorial itself entitled

News: Chinese ambassador says Britain ‘lacks respect’

However, that is not what the story said at all, where it mentions respect it reads

“Many complain about China not allowing enough access to the media. In China, the view is that the Western media needs to make an effort to earn respect.”

April 13, 2008 @ 11:32 pm | Comment

For now, it looks to me that they acted like boorish, overly aggressive bodyguards who harmed no one but startled some with their brusqueness.
Posted by: richard at April 13, 2008 10:50 PM

And yet when they assaulted a couple of torch bearers by stealing personal material, you brush it aside, while condemning protesters as assaulting Jin Jing?


And here’s the second assault on a torch bearer in San Francisco
. courtesy of ACB.

As for Riefenstahlesque photos, I’d say the one at the top of this thread is one of glorification, eyes closed and hugging the torch to her bosom.

Furthermore, isn’t it interesting that there are lots of photos of Jin Jing and none in the media of the Paris or San Francisco incidents with the torch bearers and the Tibetan flag?

April 13, 2008 @ 11:41 pm | Comment

Tom, that is exactly what I am talking about: You come on and say something about the goons stealing personal material – but nothing to back up the claim. No photo! You only put in a link to – of all people – a blogger who wasn’t there and describes himself as “angry”! I am totally willing to concede everything you say is true. Just show me. And don’t point me to a blogger who wasn’t there, a Tibet activist or Human Rights Watch.

What happened, where is the photograph and the proof that it happened? That’s all. I am still waiting. And I am still willing to say you are totally right. What I’ve seen so far, however, leaves me no choice but to conclude it’s just bullshit. Your comparison of them to storm troopers is obscene – you have to tell us why you feel their actions compare to storm troopers who bashed in the heads of infants and burned people alive. I am waiting for your proof. What did they do, when did they do it, and what were the sufferings of their victims that makes them comparable to the most evil villains of all time?

April 14, 2008 @ 12:11 am | Comment

@Jinhan

“Well, I AM a communist agitator, and the myth of a ‘fair media’ excuses people from free-thinking and bugs the hell out of me.”

Good to know how you see yourself.

“I want to *totally shatter* the dominant status of mainstream media and force people to dig deeper on everything in life, instead of just taking the SHIT spoon-fed to them by CNN.”

So that’s your mission in Canada. Why don’t you start your mission in your beloved mother country before you go proselytizing in other countries?

“And you think you don’t? Well, see, that’s the problem.”

I think there are a few little differences between the People’s Republic of China and Canada, and you obviously agree. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have chosen to live in Canada.

“I can say that I do so sincerely believe that you and everyone else here is brainwashed…Certainly much more brainwashed than I am.”

Yeah, we are all brainwashed. Except for Ferin, he can’t be brainwashed, for an obvious reason.

“And believe me, I’m VERY often tempted to blurt that out, but I try hard to refrain from doing that because it doesn’t help. It sounds condescending and bluntly put, cuntish. We’ll end up calling each other brainwashed and nothing good will come out of it.”

Did you come to this conclusion just by yourself? Jinhan, I’m impressed. I think there is hope for you.

“If you truly believe that most Chinese people are brainwashed beyond saving, then there’s no point coming here except to vent out your frustrations against the brainwashed Chinese zombies–And I suspect some do come here for precisely that purpose.”

I never thought that any Chinese person is brainwashed until you claimed to be Chinese.

“The logical problem with the ‘brainwashed’ argument is, you can label anyone brainwashed just because he agrees even a little with the government’s stance–Or in my case, just for being Chinese.”

The problem is not that you agree with the government, it’s also not that you are Chinese, the problem simply is that you are talking BS most of the time.

“I’m sure the brainwashed peoples of China would thank you for your generous and charitable offer of forgiveness.”

Even if they knew that he is a FLG supporter?

“Yeah, everyone who disagrees with you is a nationalist.”

The problem is not if we agree or disagree, we were talking about your tone.

“I argued that the nationalist movement is a spontaneous response by overseas Chinese exposed to Western media against the Western media and not agitated by the Chinese media.”

Why don’t Chinese people show any “spontaneous” responses to Chinese media?

“And your argument is…’You’re stupid’.”

No, my argument is you’re a hypocrite, telling everybody that China is so much better than the rest of the world while you live in Canada enjoying all the privileges, rights and freedoms that people in your beloved mother country are denied.

“–Yeah, if you don’t like China, get the fuck out!”

Jinhan, I’ll tell you a secret: I already left China over a year ago, because I couldn’t stand the BS anymore. You, however, are still in Canada, aren’t you?

“It’s a fucking shame I had to waste 10 seconds replying to this kind of shitty argument.”

Only 10 seconds? Are you always that fast?

April 14, 2008 @ 12:49 am | Comment

@Jinhan once more

“Sign…Since you are so interested in my personal life, Yes, I think I’d live more comfortably in China since I’m from a rather privileged family (Dad’s a professor, mom’s a capitalist). Plus, I love the food and last but not least, my girlfriend lives there.”

So what on earth are you doing in Canada?

“I wasn’t the one making it.”

Here’s what you said:

“–Yeah, if you don’t like China, get the fuck out!”

There’s a big difference between me asking you why you still stay in Canada, although you find it so terrible, and you telling me: “If you don’t like it, fuck off!”

“Read more carefully next time, if you don’t mind.”

It’s always the same people that can’t read themselves, but think they’re entitled to patronize others.

April 14, 2008 @ 2:18 am | Comment

fucken white trash, get your nose out of Chinese business.

April 14, 2008 @ 2:33 am | Comment

@native American ferin

“You’re assuming that I support the CCP’s actions, which is why it was pointless to discuss anything with you from day one.”

If it’s pointless, why are you still here?

“My main point in this thread is that when CNN, BBC etc jump onto the bandwagon and spew their retarded Shangri-La romanticization of the DL and Tibet, and ignore the deaths of ‘Han’ Chinese, it feeds the CCP and ultranationalism.”

It’s the CCP pigs who are jumping on that bandwagon, renaming towns in SW-China in order to promote tourism and all that. It’s also the CCP pigs that ignore the deaths of Chinese, for example the deaths at the Heavenly Peace Gate massacre.

“If they actually gave a shit about China, Burma, Tibet, North Korean refugees, Darfur, or all these other causes of the day for Hollywood jerkoffs, they would not be so irresponsible and stupid. But the thing is, they don’t care at all just like 99.99999% of the general population.”

I guess the missing 0.00001% of the general population is you.

“What makes you so sure that the ‘American way of life’ is enjoyable? Are you talking about the obesity, crime rate, stress, drug addiction, or alcoholism? By the way, I was born and raised in America.”

Got you, you pretentious little bastard. I always suspected that. You are born in America, you grew up in America and you live in America. What does that make you? An American!!! Hey man, you are a citizen of that terrible evil nation that everybody hates. And you are probably a fat criminal, totally stressed out, on drugs and drunk most of the time. But there’s hope for you. If America is really so bad, you can always become an exile like Phil Cunningham.
Anyway, I find it really funny that a spoiled American youngster thinks he’s in the position to challenge the views grown up people like Kevin and Stuart have on a country where they have lived and worked for several years.

April 14, 2008 @ 2:55 am | Comment

@Some guy

“Re: Western media “earning” Chinese respect:

Very worrying. Given the compromises many Western corporations have made to gain access to the Chinese market, who’s to say that in decades to come, most major Western meda companies won’t have agreed to neuter their China coverage in order that they gain access to the Chinese market?

Murdoch wasn’t the first, and I fear he won’t be the last.”

Excellent point! This is one of the greatest challenges we are facing nowadays. And to those who think I’m slightly paranoid, we’ll talk about this in a few years (hopefully not).

April 14, 2008 @ 3:08 am | Comment

@CLC

“Soory about that. How about you photoshop the image to replace the tank with your best picture and then send it to CNN? :)”

Nice idea, but I still don’t get your point. You probably never had one.

April 14, 2008 @ 3:10 am | Comment

@asfdafa

“fucken white trash, get your nose out of Chinese business.”

Shut the fuck up when grown-ups are talking.

April 14, 2008 @ 3:13 am | Comment

Richard, I would have to say that your swipe at Human Rights Watch above was a bit unfair. Human Rights Watch does not focus on any particular country, and willingly criticizes governments around the world, including their own “home base” government. They have no national allegiance, only an allegiance to an ideal, and I have yet to come across any inaccuracies from HRW. Your dismissal of info from HRW therefore seems a bit problematic. Just my two cents.

April 14, 2008 @ 3:16 am | Comment

If it’s pointless, why are you still here?

Why am I still here? You do realize that I have never seriously considered anything you’ve ever said aside from taking the occasional jab to piss you off?

You’re just too brainwashed and hypocritical.

It’s the CCP pigs who are jumping on that bandwagon, renaming towns in SW-China in order to promote tourism and all that. It’s also the CCP pigs that ignore the deaths of Chinese, for example the deaths at the Heavenly Peace Gate massacre.

What’s that? Tu quoque, tu quoque, tu quoque! /endless parroting.

You and Western news corporations contribute. CONTRIBUTE, do you know the meaning of the word?

I always suspected that.

Gee, no shit sherlock, I only mentioned it 300 million times. Aren’t you the perceptive one? Here’s a hint: I *read* blogs a lot. When I don’t comment, it means I don’t disagree. I never said I “knew more about China”. I just know a lot more than a few posters about a couple key, specific issues that missing from certain arguments. I don’t necessarily disagree with any of you or kevin’s views; I just don’t like either of you and I’m sure the feeling is mutual. You just assume I’m a CCP apologist because I attack nanhe when he’s being an idiot.

Like, for example, the fact that the Uighur are not native to Xinjiang. Clue nanhe in on that!

April 14, 2008 @ 4:35 am | Comment

@native born American Ferin

“Why am I still here? You do realize that I have never seriously considered anything you’ve ever said aside from taking the occasional jab to piss you off?”

In other words, all you say is BS?

“You’re just too brainwashed and hypocritical.”

A spoiled American high school kid who pretends to be a China expert calls me “hypocritical”. Good one!

“What’s that? Tu quoque, tu quoque, tu quoque! /endless parroting.”

It’s not “tu quoque”. My point is that the government of your beloved (imaginary) mother land is doing exactly what you are blaming the so-called “West” for.

“You and Western news corporations contribute. CONTRIBUTE, do you know the meaning of the word?”

Contribute to what? Chinese people knowing the truth about what’s going on?

“Gee, no shit sherlock, I only mentioned it 300 million times.”

No, what you did a lot of times was to call me a liar, because I talked about issues concerning China that you know nothing about, because you are an ignorant American youngster.

“Aren’t you the perceptive one?”

What’s that supposed to mean?

“Here’s a hint: I *read* blogs a lot.”

You’ve got nothing else to do, Dad’s taking care of you. You never had to work for a living, so you can spend most of your time pretending to be some sort of expert on a country that you only know from short visits to relatives and friends.

“When I don’t comment, it means I don’t disagree.”

And when you do comment, it means you don’t know what you are talking about.

“I never said I ‘knew more about China’.”

Fact is: you know nothing about China. You are one of those spoiled, ignorant youths who think having a DSL connection means they can comment on topics they know BS about.

“I just know a lot more than a few posters about a couple key, specific issues that missing from certain arguments.”

Considering that you were born and raised in America (according to your own words) your English is appalling.

“I don’t necessarily disagree with any of you or kevin’s views; I just don’t like either of you and I’m sure the feeling is mutual. ”

Why don’t you like us? And what makes you think the feeling is mutual. We all love you for your erudite and sophisticated comments.

“You just assume I’m a CCP apologist because I attack nanhe when he’s being an idiot.”

No. 1: Nobody assumes you are a CCP apologist. We all know you are a spoiled, hedonistic American youngster whose most daring act of the week is verbally abusing people on blogsites.

No. 2: Nanhe is not an idiot. He’s far more intelligent than you are.

No. 3: Dear Ferin, if America is as bad as you always say it is, why don’t you just leave? I’m sure Yang Rui has a job for you.

April 14, 2008 @ 6:01 am | Comment

Kevin, didin’t mean to swipe at HRW. I’ve quoted them before. But they definitely have a point of view and an agenda when it comes to China. Their point of view may be a correct one. But I don’t think they are objective on the topic of China. If you want details we can talk about it by email. Thanks.

April 14, 2008 @ 8:24 am | Comment

In the West, virtually everyone is actively critical of the news media. No one believes it is always objective or truthful, which gives rise to rampant rumor-mongering and conspiracy theories. In the US criticism of CNN and other news organizations is a virtually a pillar of the blogosphere.

In the end what I find it interesting is that many people say, “we don’t believe or follow CCTV because we know its propaganda,” yet somehow their views pretty much mirror CCTV and the CCP’s “official version.” This “official version,” is that there is only one truth, one reality, only one party possesses this truth, and all views are to be exterminated. Just read the MIT BBS posts, or anything else on Tianya regarding Tibet, no nuance, no subtlety.

It is the antithesis of freedom of speech, and the central tenet of journalism.

April 14, 2008 @ 8:47 am | Comment

On my blog, ferin stated that he lives in Canada, just for future reference.

April 14, 2008 @ 10:47 am | Comment

@ferin the canadian

w.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1180365

you missed this part:

“After the fusion of the A and B sectors, new graves were dug in the west. These graves correspond to a group of genetically linked individuals, since they belong to a single paternal lineage. Interestingly, this paternal lineage has been, at least in part (6 of 7 STRs), found in a present-day Turkish individual (Henke et al. 2001). Moreover, the mtDNA sequence shared by four of these paternal relatives (from graves 46, 52, 54, and 57) were also found in a Turkish individuals (Comas et al. 1996), suggesting a possible Turkish origin of these ancient specimens. Two other individuals buried in the B sector (graves 61 and 90) were characterized by mtDNA sequences found in Turkish people (Calafell 1996; Richards et al. 2000). These data might reflect the emergence at the end of the necropolis of a Turkish component in the Xiongnu tribe.

In conclusion, our study shows how the use of genetic markers of different mutability might provide an insight into the history of past necropolises. It also provides genetic data on ancient Eurasian specimens that could help to confirm or disprove models developed from modern genetic data to explain population history. Finally, it provides an excellent tool to select samples of interest for interpopulation analyses.”

w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8147435

“The frequency and distribution of these haplogroups in modern Asian populations are supportive of previous genetic evidence that Tibetans, although located in southern Asia, share common ancestral origins with northern Mongoloid populations.”

So you want to correlate these two studies? The Mongoloid group that Asians are classified under has Turkish and other Eurasian roots. And the Koreans and Japanese are also “Mongoloid”. But I guess that is the underlying logic behind Beijing’s claims over those territories too.

“w.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/may/SinoTibetanLanguageFamily.htm

You don’t read the articles you site, do you?

“The ancestral *Proto-Sino-Tibetan language is thought to have originated somewhere in the Himalayan plateau, the source of the great rivers of East and Southeast Asia, including the Yellow, Yangtze, Mekong, Brahmaputra, and Irrawaddy. Scholars hypothesize that this ancestral language split into *Proto-Chinese and *Proto-Tibeto-Burman around 4,000 BC”

So, 6000 years ago Chinese and Tibetan were related. The Arabic tongues are older and still much closer in relation. Additionally, excluding political acknowledgments by the source you are siting, all of Tibet’s neighbors speak a different language and Tibet’s “languages” are called “Tibeto-Burman”, not “Sino-Tibetan”.

So thanks for the link, you helped reinforce the points of the Tibet Liberation camp.

Not much of an academic, don’t even read your own sources.

April 14, 2008 @ 11:25 am | Comment

When the incident happen, Jin Jing was on her way to exchange point and her torch was not lit. She was not the focus of the whole event and ignored by reporters. Which also explain the lack of the guard in blue. All the pictures and videos were taken by pass by amateurs. I believe it was difficult to claim it is stage-managed.

Don’t see her as a political tool. She is a normal young girl. She lost one leg when she was 9, but she keeps smile to the live. She has a proper job as an operator in a Shanghai hotel call centre, to feed herself, just like any other common people. She loves fencing, and though she fail to qualify the Para-Olympics, she works hard to help her team-mate to prepare. She loves music and even dance. She is a perfect symbol of Olympic Games.

April 14, 2008 @ 8:56 pm | Comment

I agree with you about Jin Jing, but I also believe she has been exploited by a government that knows a godsend when they see one. Not that my own government would ever do anything like that.

April 14, 2008 @ 9:15 pm | Comment

Ha-Ha~
I am Chinese in mainland of China. I am surprised by your funny imagination, but I have to say there is too much Bias in your mind towards China, which let you make such Ridiculous theory. You do not have any concrete proof for your theory, do you?
In that day, there were so many attacks to torchbearers in Paris. The attack to Jin Jing does not seem to be faked or planed by Chinese government. It is certainly a true attack by Tibetan mob.

Certainly, nearly all torch-bearers in France ought to have been French.
The answer is quite simple. She is a Lenovo Torchbearer for international relay outside China, and Lenovo have branch in France. Have you ever hear of it?

Regarding the Lenovo Torchbearer for international relay outside China, the news report dated on July 31st, 2007 is as below:
For text:
http://www.cctv.com/program/sportsscene/20070731/116558_2.shtml

And For Video:
http://www.cctv.com/video/sportsscene/2007/07/sportsscene_300_20070731_6.shtml

You know, some big companies, who are sponsors and partners of Olympics, such as Samsung, Coca-cola and Lenovo, they always prompt a number of people as torchbearers. Lenovo can prompt more than one thousand torchbearers around the world, including 19 Torchbearers to go to foreign countries. It is normal. Lenovo held a very popular live TV show in China as a Contest/Competition to select the torchbearers, last year. The name of the TV show competition is �你就是火炬手 (You are the Torchbearer)� Thousands of Chinese people have participated in this contest since August, 2007.

I found a video of the contest of Nanjing District, on Sep. 23rd, 2008, as below:

Part No.1
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/CxIMGzngTng/
For other contestants.

Part No.2
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/9scuRp1TWKw/
For other contestants.

Part No.3
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/uJm58IYubJU/
Jin Jing appears at the 16 minute,

Part No.4
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/-vejDHaFmL0/
At the 1st minute, Jin Jing is introducing a Flash Cartoon of Fence-play which she made by herself. At the 13th minute, contestants answered questions. All the qualified contestants are voted by audience. At the 18th minute, the qualified 5 contestants swore to flag of Olympics, and they were going to the next step of national contest.
Nobody knew if Jin Jing could be sent to Paris or anywhere else. Because the city where a qualified contestant will be sent to was decided by Random Selection in the face of audience by Live broadcast on TV at the final contest in November, 2007.
It is a fair and public contest/competition. Jin Jing won her privilege as a torchbearer in the contest in a contest on Nov. 25th, 2007. Although, there have been some risk of Tibetan attack towards torchbearers since March, 2008, she would not give up her Dream!
I will not waste any more time in explanation. Many Chinese people have watched the popular contest.

April 14, 2008 @ 10:37 pm | Comment

I never, ever said the attack on her was faked or planned. Never.

April 14, 2008 @ 10:56 pm | Comment

No. 3: Dear Ferin, if America is as bad as you always say it is, why don’t you just leave? I’m sure Yang Rui has a job for you.

Dear Mor, if China is as bad as you always say it is, why don’t you just exchange your Chinese “wife” for a Thai one? And I’m “more intelligent” than you, nanhe, and kevin combined.

So you want to correlate these two studies? The Mongoloid group that Asians are classified under has Turkish and other Eurasian roots. And the Koreans and Japanese are also “Mongoloid”. But I guess that is the underlying logic behind Beijing’s claims over those territories too.

Nope. I listed the first to give you the genetic makeup of the ancestors of the Uighur, and where their homeland is located- somewhere around Southern Siberia (and modern day Central Asia)

As for the Tibetans, yes, they split with the Northern Han 4,000-5,000 years ago. But they’re still more closely related to the Northern Han than any other group. Kinda shatters your notions of South Asian origins for Tibetans, huh?

I like how the U.S keeps supporting India despite the fact that it’s just as bad or worse than China in every single way, they’re not small enough to be cowed into subservience either and they’re going to end up competing with the U.S for resources.

And don’t worry about Tibet, worry about the Republic of Lakotah that has a much more compelling case for secession. Considering non-Natives don’t belong in North America.

April 14, 2008 @ 11:16 pm | Comment

[…] potentially embarrassing anniversaries. Just like the wheelchair-bound torchbearer who suddenly galvanized the patriotism of Chinese people all around the world, we now have a new superstar. And there’s very little that can be done to diminish […]

March 3, 2009 @ 4:18 pm | Pingback

[…] out China’s Olympic flame. There was the bright shining moment when, as if out of nowhere, an unknown female athlete in a wheelchair rallied China’s pride and galvanized Chinese around the world. But it was still a rough time, […]

May 12, 2009 @ 11:00 pm | Pingback

[…] public view in Paris by a pro-Tibet activist determined to grab the Olympic torch from her hands. She refuses to yield, using her body to protect the torch as if it were a child. The timing was incredible: China was reeling from criticism of its handling of ethnic tension in […]

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