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Hacked By AdGhosT

Hacked By AdGhosT & Tayeb TN & bo hmid

 

 

 

 

 

close your eyes and listen Elfen Lied <3

Greets~:AdGhosT-- adel pro tn- Anonback Tnx - A_Ghacker - xvirus -Malousi Foryn - MaxKiller - Nexamos

Thread » The Peking Duck

Thread

I won’t be posting much this week.

______________

Richard Burger is the author of Behind the Red Door: Sex in China, an exploration of China's sexual revolution and its clash with traditional Chinese values.

The Discussion: 96 Comments

@Snow,

I think that if we consider it, we can come up with some rationales for why Mainland Chinese insist on defending their government, other than they are on average stupid or brainwashed (which I don’t believe is anymore or less true for Da Lu Ren than for the rest of us). Consider twentieth Chinese history and you can see how fragile human life becomes in a system without an authority with a monopoly on violence (the Civil War) and even more so when a really poor excuse for an authority gains a monopoly on violence (the Great Leap Forward). The past one hundred years or so has really made the Mainlanders able to appreciate an authority that is capable of protecting them from external attacks without completely mutilating their lives. For better or worse, the post-Mao CCP has fit that bill.
If you take a walk about China, you’ll notice that it is filthy and poor, and that many things are organised with unbelievable obtuseness. But you’ll also notice that the people by and large are not starving. Most of them have places to live with electricity and access to passably clean water, and most of them have jobs that provide them with enough resources to support their families. They don’t live in terror, providing they keep their heads down and noses clean, and most of them are able to pursue activities that make them happy (provided these are not political). None of this was true of China before the end of the Cultural Revolution, or for a long time before. It’s also not true for many other places on Earth right now.
Why do they support the incarceration of a nice fellow like Hu Jia? Well if they accept the CCP as the authority that is protecting them from a) a government that would be more arbitrarily brutal or even just less competent than the CCP and b) anarchy or civil war, they must also accept that before the CCP is capable of protecting them, it must first protect itself. Presenting information in the mass media that undermines the state is a danger too an authoritarian regime, I think everyone will agree. So Hu Jia has to go to jail for the good of the majority.

The other reason Mainland Chinese may be aggressively defending their government here, especially on the Tibet and Taiwan issues, is just good old fashioned chest thumping national pride. I don’t really get nationalism to be honest with you, but it of course is not confined to China. In my own country, I’ve met many very proud, very a-thoughtful Canadians who will say dumb things like, ‘If the Quebeckers don’t want to be a part of Canada, then they can just get the hell out!’
Also, I think some of the Mainlanders are not especially fond of their government, but are still annoyed by foreigners telling them what they should think about it. I know that whatever reservations I may have about some of Washington’s policies, I find talking to Europeans that keep insisting that America is a hole and that Bush is an idiot and the majority of Americans are dumb to have voted for him, very, very tiresome.

Those are my theories on the matter.

March 28, 2008 @ 3:34 am | Comment

@ukchinese

Just … trying……read….. chinese…. webpage…. sina.com…… Arrrg!!! So many queer looking symbols!
Hhhmmm…..Google web page translation!
Now! It looks better (for me). The sentences a little queer though…. Lets have a look!

About Winston Church (?). He must really be a fictional character.
Winston Churchill… that is a real historical figure. 😉

March 28, 2008 @ 3:42 am | Comment

Take a look at this article by Howard French. Normally, in my opinion, he doesn’t offer much more insight into China than the average foreigner sitting in a bar. He hit the nail right on the head with this one though. Particularly the last line.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/27/asia/letter.php

March 28, 2008 @ 3:55 am | Comment

I quite agree, Amban. CCT’s ability to play along the lines of the official media while vehemently denying it are quite amazing, and probably not even worthy of a response.

March 28, 2008 @ 4:11 am | Comment

i thought chinese communist government is the evil dictor i am familiar with, now at this site, i see more dictorship, even i claim i don’t agree and trust with communist either, but only because i am chinese, my words are still mocked in many different ways, and being judged ridiculously by some dictors here, they just don’t trust whatever any chinese say, good for them, and even attack chinese website with homophobic word like “So many queer looking symbols!” peace and tolerant , thx for the good example how you don’t trust whatever chinese say, just like communist government government does not trust its people

March 28, 2008 @ 4:24 am | Comment

ukchinese, I certainly don’t discount your opinion just because you’re chinese. However, you paint the “western media” with a pretty broad brush and discount its reports by saying things like maybe they don’t “know” china. I regret to inform you that I do know China, and I do know that the government is engaged in quite unsavory events there at the moment, while employing the same utterly deceptive media tactics used in 1989 to portray protestors (which would not be a big deal in a normal political environment) into “hoodlums” (baotu). I am “fluent” (whatever that means) in Chinese, and in fact watched the 15-minute report on CCTV 4 yesterday portraying the “violence” and “savagery” of the Tibetan “hoodlums.” Having absorbed reports from both the “Western” media and the Chinese media, I find the former far more complete and capable of telling both sides of the story. However, in the end, nothing can justify the repression and violence that China has engaged in in Tibet, not only over the past two weeks, but over the past half-century. This is not a Western media bias, but rather common sense, and I encourage overseas Chinese such as yourselves to move beyond nationalist perspectives on “western” media reports (if I got worked up about every “negative” report about the US in the Chinese media, I would probably be paralyzed by now- not, of course, to draw a parallel between the controlled and manipulated chinese media and free media), don’t simply assume that less-than-flattering reporting about CCP behavior is inherently inaccurate, and maintain a critical stance towards the behavior of this parasitic and outdated Party, not only in terms of its treatment of Han but also of the “minorities.” If even people like you with access to alternative sources of information acquiesce to the CCP’s errors, the cycle of violence will only continue.

March 28, 2008 @ 5:09 am | Comment

For example, did anyone see the videos of the Tibetan monks that “interrupted” the CCP’s carefully-orchestrated media event to whitewash Tibet before the eyes of the world?

March 28, 2008 @ 5:13 am | Comment

Lime,…
“””””The past one hundred years or so has really made the Mainlanders able to appreciate an authority that is capable of protecting them from external attacks without completely mutilating their lives.”””””

Your obsevations about China… I can’t accept those things… Basically it comes down to trickery… I think that the CCP is tricking people, making them think what the CCP is doing is good for people, but it is not good fopr people. People are have been waiting to reap the benefits of sacrificing their fundamental rights, but it’s comin up s**t… They are really losing their humaniy, giving away their thinking for the mere short term cash from the party (actually the cash is worked for by the people, caush does not from the party, it is manipulated to the extreme for the partys own sake, thats for sure)

Lime I appreciate your thoughts. But they way I see it, the CCP is uprooting every good thing about Chinese civilisation and selling it all in return for its own longgevity… whats that Japanese cartoon where the bad queen eats peoples souls for immortality and at the end its really neat???

March 28, 2008 @ 5:49 am | Comment

@ukchinese

“with homophobic word like “So many queer looking symbols!””

Come on UK. That was a joke made with a good heart! I was trying to show my own ignorance!!
Do not be so touchy!

Please calm down a bit. Do not see evil thinking where there is none. 🙂

Yes. Chinese do look queer to me, there is nothing strange or bad on it.

And yes I know that a lot of Chinese culture hid behind Chinese writing system. It is a pity, but it will too much to ask my old brain to learn now Chinese character. But thanks to Google translation I can understand, though imperfectly, what is written there.

Thanks for the links. I really find them interesting. A new view inside China society.

By the way. Homophobic means aversion and discrimination against homosexuality. You should check your dictionary. 😉

March 28, 2008 @ 5:50 am | Comment

Everyone,

As sad as it is to hear such irrational comments from ukchinese, I think we all have to make sure to have compassion for Chinese people under the influence of the current situation….

Imagine you were brainwashed and the things you said made no sense cause you trusted something bad….

So I think we gotta make sure not to tease the Chinese people or push them away by putting them down.

I for one, want the truth to all come out, I want all Chinese people to regain their rightful dignity and shake off the CCP religion that is making them ill…

So I would say, dont push them towards the bad things, dont make them feel stupid and therefore defensive and proud….

What the Chinese people need is support from the world so they have a safe haven to escape the terror of the party, if they have no support and help from others, they will have nowhere to turn and will follow the party line to save their skins…

March 28, 2008 @ 5:56 am | Comment

Everyone,

As sad as it is to hear such irrational comments from ukchinese, I think we all have to make sure to have compassion for Chinese people under the influence of the current situation….

Imagine you were brainwashed and the things you said made no sense cause you trusted something bad….

So I think we gotta make sure not to tease the Chinese people or push them away by putting them down.

I for one, want the truth to all come out, I want all Chinese people to regain their rightful dignity and shake off the CCP religion that is making them ill…

So I would say, dont push them towards the bad things, dont make them feel stupid and therefore defensive and proud….

What the Chinese people need is support from the world so they have a safe haven to escape the terror of the party, if they have no support and help from others, they will have nowhere to turn and will follow the party line to save their skins…

March 28, 2008 @ 5:57 am | Comment

uk, dont be so upset please, I didnt notice anyone teasing you. just stick around and feel free to discuss, dont be afraid to be wrong, no one is right all the time so to speak (-:

By the way, in english queer means strange, I think it only used to mean gay recently and sophisticated people will not use it to mean gay, it means strange.

March 28, 2008 @ 6:00 am | Comment

Epoch Times analysis of propaganda in overseas Cinese media on the Tibet issue….

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-3-27/68105.html

March 28, 2008 @ 6:14 am | Comment

@ukchinese & snow

Yes, by queer I meant strange, unfamiliar, unknown, foreign, mysterious, outlandish, peculiar, unusual, funny, odd, bizarre, weird, etc….

Connecting a a writing system with sexual orientation is beyond my comprehension! 😉

Snow,m why to you write 🙂 the otherway around (-: ?

March 28, 2008 @ 6:22 am | Comment

@Amban,

On the short-term, I’ll settle for law and order being restored to Lhasa. By the way, I personally agree with the intellectuals in Beijing who call for open trials of all Tibetans arrested in Lhasa.

I already applaud the initial, tentative steps towards allowing the international media into Lhasa. I don’t pretend that it’s sufficient, but I think it’s progress in the right direction. I think it’s perfectly fair (even if not desirable) that the monks were caught on video. We all know that the Tibetan religious class are extremely angry with present conditions, and this is just confirmation.

And furthermore on the positive side, the comments I’ve seen so far just confirms that their goals are for the Dalai Lama to return, and greater religious freedom. I have no problems with either of those positions as long as it doesn’t intrude upon political sovereignty, and I don’t think the vast majority of Chinese do either.

As far as apportioning blame; I’ll settle for an accurate rendition of what happened. The Washington Post, to me, reads like an accurate rendition of what happened. Few of the other Western media have bothered to give an accurate rendition. Are you uninterested in an accurate rendition?

March 28, 2008 @ 7:24 am | Comment

Going around with media bias.

“Read the comments by Chinese net users

http://tinyurl.com/35l4wu

They don’t think that their media is at all biased. They believe “western” media is biased and has an anti-Chinese agenda.
Too much fucking national pride is what it is. When I talk to Chinese people, in China, I often get this weird apologetic “our country is crappy in a socio-economic way”, but “our morals and cultural values are superior to your hedonistic, non-family oriented foreign ways”.

It’s creepy. Take a look at the China-daily forum if you have morbid interest. It’s full of the craziest ranting racists I have ever seen…and I visited 4chan once.

Bottom line is, I don’t think the government oppressing the people with censorship should be looked at in such a simplistic way. There seems to be a need for the censorship for many people on some level. Like they can’t take a single bit of criticism of their precious middle kingdom and it’s 5000 (actually 50) year great history.”

courtesy of slashdot

March 28, 2008 @ 8:35 am | Comment

Ooops. Error when creating tinyurl

This should work.

http://tinyurl.com/37pqw2

Nothing to do with the Great Chinese Firewall…. 😉

March 28, 2008 @ 8:41 am | Comment

After reading some China Daily&BBCnews blog entries I am starting to have the strong suspicion that the real aim of the Great Chinese Firewall is to protect us, western people, from the Chinese net citizens!!! 😉

March 28, 2008 @ 8:47 am | Comment

“Epoch Times analysis of propaganda in overseas Cinese media on the Tibet issue….

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-3-27/68105.html

Snow, you must be really really desperate that you finally have to refer to this grand information source. Is the wheel still spinning in your tummy?

March 28, 2008 @ 9:23 am | Comment

The Epoch Times bit about how the PRC is exerting influence over international Chinese Language publications is interesting. Anybody who can read Chinese familiar with Sing Tao or the other newspapers mentioned? Any credence to what the Epoch Times is saying?

March 28, 2008 @ 9:38 am | Comment

ET has no credence whatsoever.
Sing Tao, on the other hand, is a normal daily newspaper with middle-of-the-road (Hong Kong) views.

March 28, 2008 @ 9:56 am | Comment

Middle-of-the-road is a phrase that only means you personally find the biases not too divergent from your own. The Beeb and Fox News are both ‘Middle-of-the-Road’ depending on who you talk to. You’ll forgive me, but I don’t often read Hong Kong newspapers and never in Chinese, so what kind of a spin does it have?

March 28, 2008 @ 10:36 am | Comment

I try to avoid Sing Tao at my local supermarket, and go for the “World Journal (Shijie Ribao)” which provides much more balanced perspectives on events. The people who write for Sing Tao are perpetual ball-fondlers for the CCP, and if it was my only news source I might make arguments like CCT or ukchinese.
DOR would like to say ET has no credence whatsoever, but I certainly find it much more credible for reporting the real downsides of contemporary Chinese society. Its editorials are interesting. But it should not be your only news source, to say the least.
There are extreme slants and self-censorship in a lot of “foreign” Chinese media, from Sing Tao to Phoenix TV to (obviously) Wen Wei Po, and although I cannot lay out exactly how these slants came to be, I do have my suspicions in terms of government influence and pressure. For people who have families and friends back in China, or for papers seeking advertising, you can’t just say whatever you want about China, even if you’re in Hong Kong or even farther away in the US.

March 28, 2008 @ 11:03 am | Comment

@Lime

“Sing Tao Daily” is based in HK. Its English sister paper is The Standard. It was pro-British before 1997 and became pro-Beijing after that. “World Journal” is a newspaper that favors KMT in Taiwan. Different people may have diverged opinions on whether those two papers are fair/balanced.

As for The Epoch Times, it is associated with FLG. Actually, you can get a quite balanced view of China by reading it along with The People’s Daily/The China Daily.

March 28, 2008 @ 12:35 pm | Comment

Hey ho, just cause the Epoch Times is a bit overtly ‘religious’ sometimes. doesnt mean it’s not valid.. Its like someone was saying, we see our ‘news’ sources the way we see the world, so if you are more on the ‘religious’ side or open to the idea that the CCP is far far far different from what most people see it as etc etc, then it may appeal to you. Personally, I am not big into media anyway, there are a few key big picture issues that I follow and care deeply about and the rest is less significant to me. I dont know why people are down on the Epoch Times… I guess the level of professionalism is short compared to the old timers… Also I know that Chinese people for the most part are hard wired against anything that sympathizes with Falun Gong….

Anyway, its interesting to talk about…

“””””The Epoch Times bit about how the PRC is exerting influence over international Chinese Language publications is interesting. Anybody who can read Chinese familiar with Sing Tao or the other newspapers mentioned? Any credence to what the Epoch Times is saying?””””””

It would explain a lot. I definitely think that the CCP is controlling the everseas Chinese in all countries through all sorts of ways and it would not surprise me in the least if controlling newspapers is one of the big ones. There are all sorts of issues that need to be controlled by CCP.

One other way is throug the student associations at universities…

It makes me think abou tthe comment about some people needing to have propaganda in their lives… I dont get it. The Chinese people like to save face, so how can they let themselves be taken as fools by a political party???

Peace, goodnight.

March 28, 2008 @ 1:49 pm | Comment

@CCT

Are you uninterested in an accurate rendition?

Of course not. I just find your aimless rage against Tibetans expressed in a previous thread an interesting retreat from your position that it is pointless to apportion blame. Public trials for rioters. Why not? But is it a one way street? Don’t you think it is a good idea that Tibetans be allowed to file lawsuits against the TAR government for denying them their constitutional right to protest (peacefully)? Perhaps an important precedent can be set here.

March 28, 2008 @ 2:06 pm | Comment

“Aimless range against Tibetans”? How could it be both aimless and “against” Tibetans?

I’ll help you make it even more accurate: “my finely targeted rage at violent Tibetan rioters”; but rage aside, I absolutely believe they should be put on trial.

As far as constitutional right to protest, from what I read, the monks arrested on March 10th are being charged with illegal assembly. I think that trial too should be held openly.

March 28, 2008 @ 2:26 pm | Comment

It’s interesting that “law and order” would finally become so important for dealing with the so-called “hoodlums.” Yifa zhiguo… except when it does not meet the needs of the Party.
Call me crazy, but I think that the open trial of Hu Jintao for the massacre of peaceful Tibetan protestors in ’89 would be even more important.
This could be followed by putting the recent stroke-sufferer Li Peng on trial, along with the deceased Deng Xiaoping, for the 1989 Beijing Massacre, which killed countless peaceful protestors as well as hundreds of innocent passersby… add on Jiang Zemin, Deng Yingchao, the list grows…
This could be followed by the removal of Mao’s body from Tiananmen Square, to be flogged for his slaughter of the Chinese people far beyond that inflicted by the Japanese, whom he “thanked” in the 1970s for providing the proper environment for the CCP to come to power.
I wonder, how is it that only the Tibetans, responding to decades of brutality, suddenly have to be put on trial?
All past crimes are to be forgotten for the “national glory” of GDP-ism and the Olympics, but those wily Tibetans MUST have their day in court, right? Oh, and don’t forget to hate the Japanese, although Mao thanked them.
(I do agree that if there are trials, they should be open- however, of course, that is nothing but a pipe dream. Furthermore, the Chinese legal system is nothing but an appendage of the Party, and an openly unfair trial is not really anything to clap one’s hands or pat one’s back about).

March 28, 2008 @ 2:52 pm | Comment

“As far as constitutional right to protest, from what I read, the monks arrested on March 10th are being charged with illegal assembly. I think that trial too should be held openly.”
CCT refuses to acknowledge that the Constitution is worthless… as I said above, yifa zhiguo, unless it runs counter to the Party’s interests. They certainly don’t hesitate to refer to laws about “undermining state authority,” etc.
The simple fact of the matter, CCT, is that the monks arrested on March 10th should not have been arrested.
Any government that arrests peaceful protestors and then constructs a complex narrative about “Tibetan savages” brutalizing innocent Han does not deserve the benefit of the doubt, and the problems created cannot be resolved through the show trials that you are endorsing.

March 28, 2008 @ 2:59 pm | Comment

The cry of Tibet

http://tinyurl.com/22e5lj

March 28, 2008 @ 3:24 pm | Comment

[ZZ]
针对西藏出现的问题,为什么民主与人权记录最好的北欧国家没有大声指责中国,为什么存在国内民族问题的西班牙加拿大等国没有大声指责中国,而是由德、美、法、英这些历史上的所谓的大国强国跳了出来,原因很简单,他们不甘心让崛起的中国影响他们的蛋糕。
什么是民主?民主就是作为世界上人口最多的大国需要拥有同等份量的世界发言权。但是,我们五百亿美元的军事开支被五千亿美元军事开支的国家说了军事威胁,我们不能向一个它们不喜欢的非洲国家出口数额不大的军火,而它们则可以大手笔地将军火运到我们的一个地区,以此支持让这个国家处于数十年的分裂状态,这就是它们的民主吗?
什么是平等?平等就是全世界的每一个人都具同等的生命价值,都应该获得同样的物质与经济利益,但是它们却视自己的国民为珍宝,视非它们的国民为草芥,它们的炸弹至今仍在经常夺去伊拉克或阿富汗平民的生命,它们理所当然,却跳出来谴责我们对真正杀害平民的犯罪分子进行了”镇压”!这就是它们的平等吗?
什么是自由?自由是所有人的都有选择不伤害别的生活方式的自由,但是它们允许藏独分子四分煽风点火,攻击我们的使馆,却不允许我们的留学生们举行一个和平集会表达反对暴力骚乱态度,这就是它们的自由吗?
它们四处宣扬它们的制度,但是它们的”完美制度”到现在都还没有帮助任何一个发展中的国家发展成为真正经得起检验的强国富强。俄罗斯实行了这种”完美”的制度,但是俄罗斯从西方得到了什么?得到了已然被逼到了墙角的待遇。
它们的仇恨躲在阴暗的地方愈演愈烈,一点都容不得我们走向阳光的路,于是借着各种幌子设下各种各样的陷阱,它们希望这个国家四分五裂,就如一百年前一样,它们甚至在幻想着这个有潜力成为世界头号大国如同上一个百年那样一蹶不振的样子,从它们的身上,我们何曾能找出半点善良的希望。
是的,情况比想象的要糟糕,它们已经公然编造理由了,它们已经妄顾是非了,它们戴着华丽的面罩却怀着一颗丑陋无比的心,但是,这样一些恶劣的行径就是中国人最怕的情况吗?从1840年到1945年一百多年里,我们面对的情况比这个要糟糕多少倍,我们最终倒下了吗?
这样的情况下,我们应该失望,但不应该绝望,正如小民前面的评论中提到的那样,中国的最大对手只是自己,我们有十三亿勤劳勇敢的人民,只要我们用一个声音说话,我们的声音就占到了世界的1/5,我们有富饶美丽的土地,只要我们辛勤劳作,就可以让每一个华夏子女都有幸福的生活,这才是我们生存的根本,善待我们的人民,捍卫我们的土地,这样,在这个地球上就不会什么让我们真正感觉到恐惧的东西。

面对它们的挑衅,我们应该如何回击呢?
强硬的措词,大规模的集会,停办奥运会,展开超出国力承担的军备?都不是,因为,这都是它们乐于见到的,它们希望这个越来越强大的国家走向分崩离析,它们希望将我们的国家从建设的主轴上拉回来,让我们在仇恨中失去发展的动力。
所以请用我们的方式还击,用它们最不希望的方式还击它们,我们牢记这些丑恶的嘴脸,我们继续推进国内的改革,我们继续推进国内的民主,我们继续发展经济,我们全力办好奥运会,我们团结所有值得团结的国家,我们时刻不要忘记,如果我们只会愤怒,如果我们停滞不前,如果我们忘记国家的本来意义,就是满足了它们的阴暗期望.

March 28, 2008 @ 8:28 pm | Comment

if any one who read chinese here go to news portal website like sina, sohu and 163, you will see what CCTV really means to most chinese internet users there, CCTV represent the fake tiger picture, liar, chinese internet users just mock almost every fake news use the word CCTV, trust me, most chinese are brainwashed by government media, but the other way around, because chinese know they have been manipulated by government, they just know most government media are CCTV, they are immuned to CCTV

there are about 3 to 4 million users subscribed people’s daily 20 years ago, and i am sure if you guys not brainwashed, you know how many subscribers it has not for people’s daily, i think chinese experience more and immunised by different, they just simple do their own judgement, of course, mostly on their own benefit

by the way, i never support dictatorship government anywhere in the world, include china, everyone deserve freedom and the way they want to live, include tibet too

March 28, 2008 @ 8:56 pm | Comment

uk,

I guess there are a lot of people who know the CCP media is a liar, a big big big one… But dont you think theres anything they can DO about it??? I mean, there are a few who are able to access what everyone else can access, but MOST of the Chinese people genuinely have no access to any second sources, so they have to live by the thinking of the masses in China. Besides, if they dont they will be lynched if not tortured to death and all…

So my point is only that the situation where the CCP controls peoples minds and uses threats to make them follow the party line is inexcusable. So why do Chinese people excuse the party so much uk?

I guess it is because they tie their national pride to supporting the party. But whent eh students and all stood up in 1989, they thought it was healthy to criticize government policy, why not now? They are afraid to to confront the slaughter and torture, propaganda warfare and denouncements. I want to help… I want them to feel safe enough to be real, but the CCP is so ‘powerful’ how can they feel safe??? So I think the current situation of international scrutiny and denouncement of the Tibetan persecuation is very good for all Chinese people (-:

March 29, 2008 @ 12:03 am | Comment

uk,

I guess there are a lot of people who know the CCP media is a liar, a big big big one… But dont you think theres anything they can DO about it??? I mean, there are a few who are able to access what everyone else can access, but MOST of the Chinese people genuinely have no access to any second sources, so they have to live by the thinking of the masses in China. Besides, if they dont they will be lynched if not tortured to death and all…

So my point is only that the situation where the CCP controls peoples minds and uses threats to make them follow the party line is inexcusable. So why do Chinese people excuse the party so much uk?

I guess it is because they tie their national pride to supporting the party. But whent eh students and all stood up in 1989, they thought it was healthy to criticize government policy, why not now? They are afraid to to confront the slaughter and torture, propaganda warfare and denouncements. I want to help… I want them to feel safe enough to be real, but the CCP is so ‘powerful’ how can they feel safe??? So I think the current situation of international scrutiny and denouncement of the Tibetan persecuation is very good for all Chinese people (-:

March 29, 2008 @ 12:03 am | Comment

eco, very fine article

Lime, I think cause I write upwards…

Kevin, “””””It’s interesting that “law and order” would finally become so important for dealing with the so-called “hoodlums.” “”””

yur so totally right. When the CCP commits mass atrocities the Chinese ,er, CCT conveniently (for the CCP) resort to moral relativism and call these kinds of value jugements ‘Western concepts’, but as soon as the CCP says the magic words, suddenly law and aorder are promoted in dealing with the contrived crimes of CCP persecuted Tibetans, so typical.

Wow, I’m really cynical… Is it because I am capricorn?? Heh heh…

March 29, 2008 @ 12:20 am | Comment

cc,

In reference to your tasteless remarks…

wheel in the belly______________
you dont believe its possible eh.
do you believe there are energy channels in the body?
So you think there can be energy channels but no energy wheel?
No, you dont believe there are energy channels? What about energy? Where does that come from, how it it possible that there is energy inside our bodies?
How about thought? What kind of magic superstition is that? How can we be endowed with this trippy capability, thought, how come I cant see it, what is it, where does it come from????

How about the moral conscience? What kind of superstition is that!!?? Good, bad…. What nonesense!, its all a bunch of anti science feudalism eh???

solar axis system, galaxies, cells………I guess you cant accept any of that feudal superstition either???

I am trying to show you that flat out denying stuff that sounds impossible is very unscientific of you. Science does not mean that everything can be explained into mundaneness, science is an exploration of the totally weird phenomenon in the world, so unless you are worshipping the religion of nolife, no phenomenon, no explanation, no exploration, no learning, no interest……..no new development, , unless these are the tenants of your life (YOUR OWN VERSION OF SUPERSTITION), wake up! (-:

March 29, 2008 @ 12:34 am | Comment

One more thing,

http://www.avaaz.org/en/tibet_end_the_violence/65.php/?cl=6675

a petition they will deliver to embassies around the world, encouraging peace talks with Dalai Lama…

March 29, 2008 @ 12:49 am | Comment

LG Translation (by google)
Address the problem of Tibet, why democracy and human rights record of the best Nordic countries do not have loudly criticized China, and why the existence of an internal ethnic problems countries such as Spain and Canada did not loudly accused China, but from Germany, the United States, France and Britain on the history of these so-called big and powerful countries jumped out, the reason is very simple, they are not reconciled to the rise of China’s influence their cake.
What is democracy? Democracy is the world’s most populous country need to have the same amount of say in the world. However, we have 50 billion US dollars of military spending by 500 billion US dollars in military spending that the national military threat, we can not give them one of the African countries do not like the small amount of arms exports, and they can be generous to transport arms to one of our areas, so as to support the country in a few decades divided This is the democracy?
What is equality? Is equal to everyone else in the world with the same value of life, should receive the same material and economic interests, but they have their own nationals as for treasures, as their non-nationals as worthless, and their bombs are still frequently Iraq or Afghanistan claimed the lives of civilians, they granted, but we have come out to condemn the killing of civilians on the real criminals who carried out the “suppression”! This is the equality?
What is freedom? Freedom is for all have chosen not to harm the freedom of other lifestyles, but they allow Tibetan independence elements quarter stir up trouble, to attack our embassy, but our students are not allowed to hold a peaceful assembly expressed its opposition to violent riots attitude, This is the freedom?
They promote their systems everywhere, but they are “perfect system” to now have not any help in the development of a country’s development is truly to become a rich and powerful can withstand the test of power. Russia had adopted such “perfect” system, but Russia from the West have been? Has already been forced to the corner treatment.
Hide their hatred growing dark places, that we are not tolerate the road toward the sun, then use the guise of a variety of traps set, they hope that this divided country, as a century ago, they are even in the imagines that this has the potential to become the world’s number one big country like a hundred years, as the sluggish appearance, from their possession, we can ever find the slightest bit of good hope.
Yes, the situation worse than imagined, they have blatantly fabricated reasons, they have disregard of the right, they are wearing gorgeous masks with an ugly tremendous heart, but this is some bad act of the Chinese people I am afraid the situation? From 1840 to 1945, more than 100 years, we have a situation worse than this many times, we finally collapsed?
Under such circumstances, we should be disappointed, but it should not despair, as Sham mentioned in the previous reviews, as China’s biggest opponent is ourselves, and we have 1.3 billion industrious and courageous people, as long as we speak with one voice, Our voice in the world accounting for 1 / 5, we have a rich and beautiful land, as long as we After working hard, we can let every Chinese children have a happy life, and this is our basic survival, treat our people, defend our land, so that in this planet will not be what we really feel fear things.

They face of provocation, how should we fight back?
Hardline terms of large-scale assembly, closed the Olympic Games, started to exceed the strength of arms? Is not because they are happy to see this, and they hope that the increasingly powerful country in the collapsed, and they hope to build our country from the main axis of pull-back, we hate to lose the momentum of development.
Therefore, please use our way back, most do not want to use them the way they fight back, we remember those ugly faces, we continue to promote domestic reforms, we continue to promote domestic democracy, we continue to develop the economy, we are fully committed to successfully hosting the Olympic Games, We should unite all the national unity, we should not forget that moment, if we would only anger, if we stand still, if we forget that the original national significance, is to satisfy their darkest expectations.

March 29, 2008 @ 1:33 am | Comment

RE: LG’s post

The ‘ugly faces’ (丑恶的嘴脸) jibe in context is lies somewhere between uncivil and racist.

March 29, 2008 @ 5:01 am | Comment

Hello folks,

The DL has been using the following statement for a good while to gain international support, i.e. he does not seek Tibet independence but autonomy, real autonomy, which he terms “the middel way”. On the basis of the above, the Chinese government has been widely critisized for not talking to the DL.

A piece of information from XinHua after interviewing an “Tibetan issue expert” from the Chinese Social Science Academy. The expert made the following comment about the DL’s “middle way”, which he basically classifies as seeking Tibet independence of every bit but name. Here is what he said about the conditions set up by the DL in his “middle way”.

1. The DL insists that Tibet (not TAR, the DL apparently has his own interpretation of what his “Tibet” means, see No.4 below), historically and culturally, has been an independent nation, has never been part of China.
2. The DL insists that all Chinese military and military facilities be removed from Tibet. The status of Tibet is to be discussed by a international conference. Tibet becomes a “peaceful region” and a “buffer zone”.
3. The DL insists that Tibet can establish diplomatic relations with other nations and international organisations.
4. The DL insists that the autonomous Tibet include TAR and ethnic Tibetan areas from four other Chinese provinces, the Greater Tibet with an approximately 240km2 territory. In other words, the administrative structures of those parts of the four provinces will be reorganised by the DL. The DL will be in charge of the Greater Tibet affairs.
5. The DL insists that any non-Tibetan inhabitants within the Greater Tibet region be removed.

Does the above reflect the key points of the DL’s “middle way” in its current setting? Has he made any adjustment?

March 29, 2008 @ 5:14 am | Comment

Tibet is such a convenient tool for countries like Germany and USA to further demonize China and Chinese in general especially now that Taiwan’s next government won’t be that anti-Chinese like the current one to be their political pawn.

The recent events also once again highlight the ingrained racism held by the main stream media and ordinary people in some European countries especially Germany against China and Chinese, not just the CCP government.

If Chinese were brainwashed because of CCP’s propaganda and media censorship, these in the West at best must have been brainwashed by their own arrogance, hypocrisy and paranoia.

March 29, 2008 @ 5:44 am | Comment

@Bing
What recent events are you referring to? And how do they highlight the ‘ingrained racism’ of Europeans against Chinese people, exactly?

I’ll agree that if the rest of the world wanted a stick to beat China with, China has certainly supplied one in the form of Tibet.

March 29, 2008 @ 7:36 am | Comment

@bing

Taiwan a political paw of the west…
Ingrained racism of mainstream media and ordinary Europeans against china and Chinese.
Brainwashed by our own arrogance, hypocrisies and paranoia….

Wow! I never realized we were so bad!! 😉

….jokes apart, About that racism accusation I must said something… For a country that has received a “major” influx of Chinese immigration lately, we treat them with the very same respect and give them the same “rights” as our own countrymen.
Also, last time I check 20% of adopted all orphan Chinese children were done from here. It is easy to find families with one (or more) adopted kids, there are even families with a mix of own kids and adopted ones. There are no distinctions made with this children, they are 100% the same as the rest, no distinctions made whatsoever, they are our own people…except that we also try to give them the opportunity not to lose the culture or their country of origin if they want.
And no, we do not change or opinion about china or Chinese, and specially of those who live with us, no matter what “crisis” may arise now or in the future.

March 29, 2008 @ 11:31 am | Comment

It’s really interesting that lots people who really don’t read Chinese are here talking about Chinese domestic affairs.

March 31, 2008 @ 5:53 pm | Comment

@snow,

“So I think we gotta make sure not to tease the Chinese people or push them away by putting them down.”

I, for one, am sick and tired of bending over backwards for people who don’t even realize how offensive their behaviour is to others.

It isn’t necessary to label Japanese, Koreans or Chinese as the worst; they all do it. But, the complete lack of any interest in MY culture and MY “national sensitivities” while demanding respect for their own is getting really old.

* Tour groups traveling abroad that insist they can only eat at restaurants serving food from their own country, and then criticizing it as being poor.

* Asking rude questions about personal matters such as money.

* Treating people with darker skin as inferiors, while wearing “ghetto chic” attire.

I’m sick of it.

= = = = = = = = = =

@ Lime,

“Middle of the road” is a phrase that means median, average or typical. If you believe all media have to have some kind of spin, go figure it out for yourself.

If you don’t then why not take my word for it?

= = = = = = = = = =

@ kevinnolongerinpudong

“DOR would like to say ET has no credence whatsoever, but I certainly find it much more credible for reporting the real downsides of contemporary Chinese society.”

April Fools, right?

Reading ET to try an understand China is like reading the Teheran Times to understand Israel. It might be interesting, but no one would ever say it was accurate, balanced or unbiased.

= = = = = = = = = = = =

@LG

Are you advocating than anyone who doesn’t read German never say anything about Germany?

April 2, 2008 @ 12:12 pm | Comment

To JXie:
Bringing the topic of a couple of Chinese being interrogated by the French police showed your lack of understanding of France and its people, as well as your innate inferiority complex; yet cowardly blaming it to your rich Chinese friends while you claim that it didn’t bother you at all. Nonsense!
France is a country of law, and its people take their responsibilities seriously. If they felt this could be a criminal connection, they would appropriately call the police. It is remotely a racial issue. This could happen in many other well-developed countries. In China too my salmon pack was taken away by the customs after an unpleasant encounter with the officers. But this is obviously for a different reason; they “love” my salmon.
I nevertheless symphatize the Chinese couple’s unfortunate experience if the news is indeed true. But the true is, in developed countries only criminals deal in large amount of hard cash; others use credit card, or other form of payment. Don’t you know that?

To CCT:
Will there be a public trial for the Tibetans? The fact you are talking about it shows China is still a long way to go. Dream on it until it is over. The second “it” refers to something in China specifically.

To Dor:
The tourists and foreigners have the right to express their opinions, just like you are now expressing your feeling toward them. What is the problem? If the food doesn’t taste good, or up to their palate, should they say,” oh, I love it, ..it is the best in the world!”?
I know you are a sycophant, and your livelihood depends on the Chinese government, but don’t expect others to behave like you, especially where the education in those countries emphasizes the critical thinking of right and wrong. I guess you don’t understand it either. Live in your own world, especially in China, and pretend there is no other civilization.

………..

Arbutus

April 5, 2008 @ 12:10 pm | Comment

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