This post is deleted

I wrote it early in the morning and I don’t like it. Keeping the thread (all three of the comments).

I really have to get back into blogging. I miss it, but it’s been so long, I think I’m losing whatever touch I may have had in the past.

______________

Richard Burger is the author of Behind the Red Door: Sex in China, an exploration of China's sexual revolution and its clash with traditional Chinese values.

The Discussion: 43 Comments

Hi, is your website blocked now? I’m in Harbin, using China Netcom.
P.S. Youtube seems back now! Cheers

October 19, 2007 @ 12:35 pm | Comment

It seems to get blocked from time to time with no rhyme or reason.

October 19, 2007 @ 1:26 pm | Comment

Completely OT, anybody who reads Chinese better than I do (which would be just about anyone) can tell me if there’s anything on this page about how many of these tools the guy has and where they are made? Unfortunately all the stuff I can read, like about what the thing is and what it’s made out of and how many favorable ratings the seller has and shipping rates…well, it’s not what I need to know, and on my screen there are lines of characters that are blurred out and I’m just not good enough at reading to figure out what they are.

Anyway, any help would be much appreciated, and sorry to derail the conversation.

It’s a Taobao page, here

October 19, 2007 @ 4:00 pm | Comment

Lisa,

From what I can gather, there are three pendants available for sale. There is no information about where the items are made. The place “Baoji of Shaanxi Province” presumably is where the items are held at the moment.

Send me an email if you need more assistance.

October 19, 2007 @ 5:07 pm | Comment

I didn’t think it was that bad Richard and made a valid point about the shabby journalism so prevalent regarding China. Hint to journalists – learn the language and culture before you start muck raking.

October 19, 2007 @ 7:09 pm | Comment

Thanks Si, it was just too…dark.

October 19, 2007 @ 8:25 pm | Comment

Damn, wish I had caught it then. I’m curious what article triggered the criticism of outsider journalism.

October 20, 2007 @ 12:19 am | Comment

What was your post about though? I’m doing a project on media censorship and propaganda, I’d be interested in what you have to say.

October 20, 2007 @ 12:44 am | Comment

Thanks, Fat Cat – that really helps!

October 20, 2007 @ 1:18 am | Comment

I Believe the American Society is the Worst Society in the World

Do Americans like to promote equality between people? The answer is No – Americans don’t promote equality, and don’t like equality. The American social elites of course do not like equality. But even the regular citizens of society do not think about helping those on the bottom rung of the society.

When I was a graduate student in America, there was a very insightful American professor in my department. (Note: there are a lot of intelligent people in society, but very few insightful people, and talking with insightful people is a highly enjoyable intellectual exercise that always make you discover and learn new things, new ideas.). One time, I asked this professor,: “Why is it that everytime I talk to you, I feel I am a student and you are a professor, and never feel that we are talking on an equal footing?”. The Professor thought about it and said, “You came from a Socialist country, you don’t understand that in this nation, there’s a highly self-regulated system of social hierarchy. For example, professors will not go eat lunch with their secretaries, and would not sit down and chat with janitors.”

The upper echelons of the society looks with contempt at anyone who does not belong to their class. The rich ones have their own clubs. Of course those clubs will not openly say “Only the rich can join.”. For example, there’s a private golf club here in my neighborhood, the annual membership fee is: $70,000. So, without saying explicitly so, the club effectively made sure that regular citizens won’t be albe to join. Now, does a club really need $70,000 a year from members to maintain itself, I certainly don’t believe so. The price tag is a filter, to filter out what the upper echelons consider “scums of the society.”

In America, a citizen’s social status is highly important. And Americans are very aware of their own social status. People from differnet stratas of societies rarely mix, rarely become neighbors, rarely hang out together, rarely join the same clubs, rarely send their kids to the same schools. Somewhat peculiar is that fact that those Americans who live on the bottom rung of the society do not really hate the rich, and seem to be contempt with their low social status.

So the question arises: why is it that Americans living in the bottom of the society do not seem to complain all that much, do not seem to feel mistreated, do not feel a need to change their situation? Please read on.

In America, the concept that there should be equality between people does not exist. Instead, the socially accepted doctrine is: Everyone has Equal Opportunity. “Every has Equal Opportunity” is a very deceptive slogan. Putting aside the fact that differences in physical and mental abilities, life experiences, cultural backgrounds will lead to wildly different opportunities that are present in people’s lives, the most fundamental rule is: With money and without money, with lots of money and with little money would result in totally different opportunities for people. So exactly how is it that Everyone has Equal Opportunity?

Money is the pillar of the American Spirit. Yes, there are indeed some people in America who rose to riches from poor backgrounds. But this is a highly low-probability event amongst the vast majority of regular citizens. So, the established and elite class capture those few examples of “rags to riches” and tout that “Everyone can realize the American Dream”. Using this “American Dream”, the social elites helped create a very united (around money) and centrifugal force amongst the regular citizens. This deceptive doctrine of “American dream/Equal Opportunity” is being injected into the minds of Americans year after year, decade after decade. So that Americans now totally believe in that “truth”, believing that “we all have equal opportunity, we can all achieve the American dream, this is the land of opportunity, etc, etc.” This perhaps is a very unique and peculiar trait of American society.

The riches use a small portion of their wealth to create charities. This is called “largess”, like a gentleman giving a few pennies to the beggers on the street, and then feel so morally superior about himself afterwards. By creating those charities, the social elites comfort themselves and think that they are not only wealthier than most, but morally superior than others.

In this ladder of social status, Americans on the low end of the ladder very much admire and want to be those on the high end, and very much look down upon those who are lower than themselves. Looking upward, trying to get into a higher club is a insivible and heavy pressure that burdens most Americans throughout their lives. Most Americans, under this burden of trying to get into a higher club, toil and sweat for the rest of their lives. There are also those who can relieve themselves of this burden, and live without worrying about which social class they and their families belong to, but those are a very very small group. Social status, therefore, is a tacitly understood, self-regulated, but never talked about order of American society. It’s the oil that keeps this society running.

Interestingly, this system of social status in America is not being enforced through laws and regulations, but through the voluntary and subconcious actions of regular Americans themslves. This perhaps would be an envy to Chinese leaders, for Chinese would never ever acquiese to this kind of hierarchical systems in society. That’s why China underwent 3 violent revolutions in the past 100 years. So ironically, the supposedly most “free” and “equal” society is one in which its citizens are the most obedient and accepting of social hierarchies… This is something that one can only realize after living in America for decades and truly getting a feel of the society.

So another question arises: Is there a society with true equality?

The answer is Yes. The Chinese society during Mao’s time is a society with true equality. I am fortunate to have lived through that society and remember some of the fond memories. When I was in school, I was told that everyone is equal (not the revised version of “every has equal opportunity”). No one is more superior than any other, no job is better than another. The social theme of the time was working hard, be positive, help each other, be plain. Intellectuals are hated at the time, because they position themselves on a pedestal and act as of they are the teachers of the masses. Unfortunately, this kind of society did not last long, and today’s China is becoming more and more like America.

If you look at the world today as one society, then America, Europe and Japan can be considered the social elites of this society, while the rest of the “third world” is on the lower rung of the society. The social elites will try everything they can to maintain their status, maintain their wealth, maintain their superiority. This is the fundamental relationship between the first world and the third world. If you can undestand this relationship, then you’ll realize that all of those “aid to africa”, “helping the poor”, etc. Are just “largesses” given by the first world, it’s not done in a genuine effort to lift up the third world, but to further confirm that the first world is superior to the third world.

October 21, 2007 @ 3:49 pm | Comment

Richard, you really must resume blogging. Otherwise Math gets the last word…

October 21, 2007 @ 4:34 pm | Comment

Re: “Hint to journalists – learn the language and culture before you start muck raking.”

Learning the language and culture doesn’t necessarily inoculate a journalist against bias, or even cultivate any real understanding of the host country. Consider the examples of whore-journalists Walter Duranty and his intellectual midget emulator Philip Cunningham, who bought into the Potemkin-Village fantasies provided by their Communist hosts lock, stock and barrel. Both of them were fluent in the language, but what’s the use of being fluent in any language if all you use it for is lying, to others and especially to yourself?

October 21, 2007 @ 8:32 pm | Comment

Seriously, why can’t 中南海 go on and block Peking Duck? At least Math would be replaced by a better-spoken and better-informed variant.

October 21, 2007 @ 9:39 pm | Comment

Agree with the gist of what Math is saying. I’ve always felt that in American society, people are very “obedient” towards the social structure and social institutions, and “know their place” in society.

And the society always has some nice “explanation” for everything. For example, if the gov’t massively fails at something, people would say “Well at least, we have a free press to report the gov’t's failures, that’s what makes us better than other countries”, and people would simply be satisfied with this explanation.

And is the free press in America really free? For example, NBC is owned by GE. Will NBC news report things that greatly damage the interests of GE, or will it produce a documentary exploring unsafe vehicles made by GE? Of it will not. So clearly the news organizations will not take views that hurt their parent corporations. Like right now, Rupert Murdoch basically owns Wall Street Journal, and Wall Street Journal represents the financial interests of Wall Street, which in turn is linked to the financial interests of the US. So as a result, can we trust the Wall Street journal to report fairly when it comes to say, a trade dispute with China? And many such news-business-government connections exist. So just because a news organization is not state-controlled, does not mean it’s free in its reporting.

October 21, 2007 @ 11:29 pm | Comment

TiS, well, whatever Math is saying, this isn’t the place to say it. It’s just a venue for bashing China and complaining about how it doesn’t fall in with Western standards. Some of the people here are very knowledgable, or at least highly-polished in their arguments, but I’d rather argue on neutral ground than go to war on their home turf.

October 22, 2007 @ 4:56 am | Comment

Yes, Inst, I understand we must adhere to anti-China and pro-US guidelines in our postings. But when I see something that I genuinely and passionately agree with, I will say it out aloud. I don’t care about the rules, I respect only one thing, and that is the truth.

October 22, 2007 @ 7:18 am | Comment

There’s a couple of ways I could characterize people who think that any criticism of a country is “bashing.”

But I’ll let somebody else fill in those blanks.

Personally, I spend far more time criticizing the US than I do China. And I’d say Richard falls into the same category.

October 22, 2007 @ 7:51 am | Comment

Rather bizarre posts by inst and thieves in suits – you both do realise that you are commenting on what was an article about western misrepresentations of china whilst saying that the blog is anti-China? You are both very very boring. Try actually reading the posts.

@Ivan

I totally agree with you. But people who can’t speak the language and then wander round, translator in tow, looking for muck to rake just piss me off as much as the apologists. the best stuff on China, imho are people such as Buruma, Hessler and Johnson, who give a much more even handed account due to knowledge of the country.

October 22, 2007 @ 4:25 pm | Comment

Si, You are too kind to inst and thieves in suits. They are more than just “bizarre” and “boring”. Anyone who takes Math’s essays at face value deserves to be called an idiot.

Richard was correct in deleting the original post, which endorsed Danwei’s highly critical views of Hartley’s article at the Spectator. I have to say that Jeremy Goldkorn has not been entirely “even handed” in his criticism. As one of the commenters pointed out, Jeremy is focusing too much on just one paragraph in that article, which, despite being ridiculous, isn’t reflective of the rest of the article.

I’m also amazed by the highly emotive language that Jeremy uses to undermine the credibility of Hartley’s article. After reading Hartley’s article and Jeremy Goldkorn’s critique, I came to the conclusion that Jeremy was the one who should drink “some kind of paranoia-inducing Kool Aid”. If the Chinese government does not want Beijing to go under international scrutiny, she should refrain from hosting major international events such as the Olympic Games. I still remember how Australia has been subjected to some major scandals prior to the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. Among many other negative reports, the international press was particularly critical of Sydney’s record in handling indigenous affairs around inner-city suburbs such as Redfern. I couldn’t remember any Australians or Sydney residents becoming defensive, stumping their feet and calling any reports by members of the international press”nonsense journalism”. I do wish China (and those state-sponsored spin-doctors ) will learn to grow up – it’s just “part of the Games”. The over-reaction generated by Danwei’s sensational report does nothing to promote the image of Beijing as a sophisticated metropolitan metropolise.

October 22, 2007 @ 5:48 pm | Comment

@ Si, “people who can’t speak the language and then wander round, translator in tow, looking for muck to rake just piss me off as much as the apologists.”

So far so good, we agree in principle. But the next question is, how many mainstream journalists in China REALLY go around “looking for muck to rake”?

I mean, anyone who rakes TOO much muck in China, will lose his/her welcome. This doesn’t necessarily mean that all foreign mainstream journalists in China are whores. But I DO mean, that virtually all of them are unavoidably compromised to a considerable extent.

More simply: REAL muck-raking in China would be a one-way ticket out of the country and a stamp “persona-non-grata” in the passport.

And to be perfectly honest – and as a prophylactic against accusations of my being a hypocrite – I admit that when I worked in China (not as a journalist, but as an academic), even I made some compromises with the expectations of my host country’s government. The compromises I made, did not compromise my honour; I maintained some clear boundaries and drew the line against agreeing with the Party Line. But on the other hand, as an academic in China, I NEVER
INITIATED ANY CRITICISM of the Party line, UNLESS one of my Chinese colleagues initiated it first by asking me for my honest opinion.

But if I, as an academic in China whose work did not require ANY addressing of internal affairs of China – if even I chafed at the bit, struggling to restrain myself from offending the Party in the course of my job – then how much MORE so, do mainstream Western journalists compromise with
the CCP line, in ways which are less honourable precisely BECAUSE THE JOB OF A JOURNALIST (unlike my former job in China) IS TO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT CHINA?

As an academic in China, my job was not to tell the truth about China. My job was to tell the truth about my own area of expertise. Yet even I made some compromises, just barely skirting the edges of personal Honour. Thus, it was easier for me to maintain my honour and integrity in China, than it is for foreign JOURNALISTS in China…

….but my point is, that it is almost impossible for foreign journalists in China to tell the truth about China and remain welcome there. I’m not saying they’re less honourable than I – because it was EASIER for me to maintain my honour, due to the nature of my job. But I AM saying, that it’s almost impossible for any foreign journalist in China to tell the truth about China.

October 22, 2007 @ 7:36 pm | Comment

@fat cat and ivan

i completely concede the point. just tired of reading johnny come lately “china is this, china is that” and they can’t even spell pinyin correctly. most of the professional writing about china is just awful.

October 22, 2007 @ 9:24 pm | Comment

Just another note: Sydney Schanberg (American journalist) wrote and published more truth about the Killing Fields of Cambodia than anyone else in the world, yet he relied entirely on his Cambodian interpreter.

(Richard, just between you and me, are you hearing what I’m saying to you between the lines?)

October 22, 2007 @ 9:51 pm | Comment

Well, Si, good point. A lot of Chinese commentators know just enough to be dangerous. Unlike the fuckwit commentators on “America” who have never been there, rely entirely on third-hand journalism, and have it all figured out.

October 22, 2007 @ 11:05 pm | Comment

There is an interesting article in the Wired Magazine (Issue 15.11) about the peril of working as a foreign correspondent in China while trying to tell an honest story. Here is the link: http://tinyurl.com/2cpzcc

Fortunately it is not all bad news. The experience the author gained through bypassing surveillance and wrestling with harassment allowed him to make this insightful observation about the self defeating nature of China’s giant censorship machine:

“… censorship is not only easy to subvert, but sometimes it subverts itself. Each week, for example, Beijing’s propaganda department updates a list of banned stories. Available to senior journalists at government-controlled news outlets, the list includes scandals, protests, and sackings across the country. Newspapers are not allowed to report on them, but some journalists post the lists online, telling you all you need to know….

…Singapore, with just 2.4 million regular Internet users and very deep pockets, might have a chance at quelling Internet-fueled popular revolts. But China comprises a fifth of humanity. Any attempt to impose iron-fisted control over a network this big seems certain to trigger economic paralysis…”

The author therefore concluded: “Today, anyone in China can send a sensitive message if they are minimally savvy, and that fact is transforming the political discourse … the Internet — not the Communist Party — is the main influence on public opinion. No shield, golden or otherwise, can protect them from the public. China’s leaders should know this. Their predecessors built the Great Wall of China to keep out Mongol invaders. It proved as useful as every other fixed fortification in history, and the Mongols still invaded Beijing and overthrew the political elite.”

Do you share the author’s optimism?

I would also appreciate if someone in Middle Earth can let me know whether the Wired Magazine article is at all accessible. Many thanks.

October 23, 2007 @ 5:24 pm | Comment

Hard to feel much optimism when, in a pique about the Dalai lama visit (soon to visit Japan- just in time for Bonfire Night!) the regime has made Hotmail nearly impossible to open, NYTimes ages as well, and blocking outright Youtube, Blogspot, Wikipedia, etc. Now my proxy.pac is no longer operable. Damn this! What kind of government carries on like this without feeling the slightest bit of shame?

October 23, 2007 @ 8:14 pm | Comment

@ Fat Cat, “I would also appreciate if someone in Middle Earth can let me know whether the Wired Magazine article is at all accessible.”

Dear Fat Cat,

No it isn’t. But we’re watching you.

Very truly yours,
Sauron’s Central Propaganda Department,
Middle Earth

October 23, 2007 @ 8:58 pm | Comment

If you change only a few words in Math’s long post, the first part of it actually becomes a perfect description of China’s society today.

October 23, 2007 @ 10:32 pm | Comment

“The answer is Yes. The Chinese society during Mao’s time is a society with true equality. I am fortunate to have lived through that society and remember some of the fond memories.”

This isn’t funny anymore. Math, you should be ashamed of yourself. The only excuse that there is for you, is that you probably have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe, some day, you’ll find the time to listen to somebody who has really lived through those times.

October 23, 2007 @ 10:37 pm | Comment

DOn’t you know the CCP pays people like math?

The CCP’s main mandate is to fool people into having their heads full of untruth, so they spend a heck of a lot of resources on that, it’s really a massive project and a lot of the people are tools of it… Math could be paid or have some relative who makes more money by fooling people or do you think he is actually fooled???? I suppose it’s possible, but then I would have to say,

Math, you are an absolute tool, litterally, masses od people and epartments are paid in the peoples bllod and sweat to make your thinking stupid as it is..

No insult, just want you to know…

I guess its not that easy to talk to people who know the truth when most of them are scared shitless or are in the prisons being made an example of for the other truthful folks.

Keir, if you don’t believe in the supernormal principles of good and evil (possibly you do), you will never be able to know how the CCP can be so inconceivable.

PS I think sugar is bad for the health, I didnt think sugar made you fat, but it really does and it messes with your body chemistry.. Just a word in case theres anyone who eats to much candy (-:

October 24, 2007 @ 12:26 am | Comment

Why is that when there are people who don’t share your view, instead of attacking his/her argument, you attack that person instead?

Why is that when there are people defending the wonton, broad-stroke demonization of the CCP, certain attack dogs come barking and alleging that those people are paid by the CCP?

Snow, following your childish logic, I have to ask: Are you paid by the FLG? The VOA? The US government? The Canadian government?

“pfeffer, I totally didnt get your point, your childishness makes me think maybe there wasn’t one to get…”

Talk about being childish… See the above.

“A lot of people don’t see the CCP as the scum of the earth, but, a lot of people do as well, so what’s so hard to understand?”

Exactly, some people love it, some people hate it. It doesn’t get more natural than that. What I have been trying to say is, the CCP ain’t perfect, it is both good and bad, it is not the “evil overlord” and “terrorist” you painted it to be. Your approach is “too simple, too naïve”, to put it mildly.

Again, if you hate the CCP, do something. Overthrow it. I have a great idea: Hold a sign that says “Down with the evil CCP!” in both English and Chinese at Tiananmen Square. The Chinese police will never dare to arrest a Caucasian person.

One piece of advice though: Before you do, sever your ties with the US government, the Canadian government or whoever is paying you so that they can easily write you off their book in case something happens, :-)

October 24, 2007 @ 6:16 am | Comment

When I said you were childish, I wasn’t talking about any issue, I was saying that I didn’t get your point, I think you were insulting me at that time, I don’t remember, but I don’t attack people, I just wanted to let you know I didn’t get your point also that your insulting me is childish, I think the issues are too serious…

Some people love it and some people hate it doesn’t mean something is both good and bad, it can mean other things as well.

One thing that shows that you are fooled is that you think a westerner can hold such a sign in Tiananmen without consequence. That place is crawling with thugs and no, they might not lock me in a torture cell for the rest of my life (or until thoroughly converted to CCP lackie), but they would send me home at my own expense, probly beat me a bit (maybe in Olympics circumstance no), or they might even try to start something by putting me in jail. The CCP thinks that saying bad things about the CCP is the worste crime so it’s possible they might try to do something, though I doubt it cause it would bring more attention to the issue and let more people see how terrified they are…

Anyway, its a kinda good suggestion but I don’t have 2000 to spend just to hold up a sign for less than a minute and to fly for so many hours etc.

ANyway, we’re not supposed to talk about stuff thats not relevant to the post, though I don’t mind talking, just, yu no, we have to respect Richards blog, but Richard, whats up?

I think that maybe you’re different than you used to be but that’s normal, different doesn’t mean less good,…

October 24, 2007 @ 11:00 am | Comment

Oh, yeah, as far as I know, those org.s you mentioned do not employ people for brainwashing purposes, at least as far as I’m aware of.

October 24, 2007 @ 11:01 am | Comment

A quick comment for Ross concerning the execution picture of that young woman, yes, at close range a riffle has enough power to blow out half of somebody face or more, it’s not the bullet who does the job here, but the blow of the shot….sad, but true…

October 24, 2007 @ 12:13 pm | Comment

@snow
I can assure you that Math is not some agent paid by the CCP. Math is just a joker. Sometimes, he can be quite funny, at other times his jokes are just disgusting and showing a deep contempt for human life. Anyway, anybody with a minimum of insight will tell you that the CCP certainly would not appreciate his kind of humour.

October 24, 2007 @ 5:49 pm | Comment

Snow, accusing someone who doesn’t share your simplistic, ignorant hatred of getting paid by the CCP. If this is not childish, what is?

“Some people love it and some people hate it doesn’t mean something is both good and bad, it can mean other things as well.”

Well, if the fact that many Chinese approve of and support the CCP does not indicate that it is both good and bad, then there is only one explanation: Those people who approve of and support the CCP are the stupidest people in the world. Or you might say, they are all being paid by the CCP. :-)

“Oh, yeah, as far as I know, those org.s you mentioned do not employ people for brainwashing purposes, at least as far as I’m aware of.”

Oh really? Have you visited FLG websites or US government websites such as VOA, RFA etc.? Even worse than Xinhua.

October 25, 2007 @ 4:10 am | Comment

pfeffer,

It’s not because someone disagrees with me that I say they are paid by the CCP, tons of people disagree with me about all sorts of stuff, I say theyre getting paid when they seem to not have a conscience and spew communist propaganda. The CCP does a lot of brainwashing and spreading of propaganda as you might know, so it is likely, although, Mor says the CCP wouldnt appreciate Math sense of humour, personally, I didnt note the guys sense of humour, anyway.. I just figured that nobody using their own thinking would so adamently promote CCP propaganda, It’s possible that he is not paid and just simply brainwashed.

I have told you before, if the CCP fans are brainwashed and dont know the truth, it doesn’t mean they are stupid. The CCP is so severe in it’s terrorism of the Chinese people, and the ideological brainwahsing through the education system, the cult of CCP, the tool media, the corrupt judiciary/police etc etc., there are many things that have contributed to the people thinking according to the partys wishes instead of reality, thats the way it has happened, and I dont think you can say that that would make the Chinese people stupid necessarily.

I have visited some of those sites, mostly about the persecution of Falun Gong, but I don’t think they have an agenda and they don’t seem to treat people badly at all. I don’t care if their beliefs are whatever as long as they are nice and I agree with them about the CCP stuff…They think the CCP has destroyed the Chinese culture and turned the Chinese people against their spiritual roots, that I agree with and to me that is very evil…

October 25, 2007 @ 1:32 pm | Comment

Snow,

In your opinion, am I paid by the CCP?

Again I am not saying the CCP is perfect or beyond criticism, it has screwed up many times and it did do many bad things over the years. However it has also done many good things for China, I believe. It is your (and shared by FLG fanatics) simplistic and wonton demonization of the CCP that I find childish, to say the least.

We are all brainwashed by our cultures, political systems and the countries we grew up in, to a certain extent. I can tell you that you have been brainwashed by western propaganda and McCarthyite BS to believe that the CCP is evil. Unless you tell me that prior to coming to China you did not think the CCP was evil and you developed your opinion solely based on your experience in China.

October 26, 2007 @ 7:42 am | Comment

Screwed up? How can you say the CCP has, oops, screwed up? Inconceivable! As if they are evil just bu accident.

Pfeffer, I find your logic flawed and find it hard to talk to you… I never said YOU were paid or seem to be that type.

So you find my understanding childish and I think you are brainwashed, well, so what, what should we talk about now?

ANyway, I am not the one to demonize the CCP, they do that themselves, and people like you call their evil, mistakes (which is inconceivable since they do things systematically on purpose to achieve their aims…), but I don’t blame you, I guess you don’t see what I see…

See you later,

snow

October 26, 2007 @ 2:16 pm | Comment

Heres a book to read:

http://www.publishersnewswire.com/booknews/2007-10-1025-PNW001.shtml

October 27, 2007 @ 12:35 am | Comment

They screwed up many times, yes. Were their intentions bad and evil? Not at all.

If someone believes communism is evil, I think that person is brainwashed by western propaganda. What else would you call this person?

Snow, again I am asking you, if China is this bad, what are you doing in China?

October 28, 2007 @ 8:04 am | Comment

“”"”"”"”"”"If someone believes communism is evil, I think that person is brainwashed by western propaganda. What else would you call this person?”"”"”"”"”"

Based on what logic? Don’t you even allow for the poosibility that you might be wrong and that you have misinterpreted the party’s intentions?

You say they have made mistakes and I say they have committed evil systematically in an effort to solidify their cultish power and achieve their evil aims.

You say one, I say two, so who is right?

Have you read David Kilgour and David matas’ report on organ harvesting?

Have you ever witnessed how the CCP incites hatred through its media and seen Chinese people turned into persecuting zombies due to the CCPs braiwashing and propaganda. They are bloody feirce, its super sickening, that’s what I call evil.

Would you say that Chinese people in China are materialists who only care about personal gain? And wouldn’t you say that that is due to the CCPs destruction of culture and promotion of communist theory? I call that evil, the people have turned into beasts.

Do you think that id China still had the culture that it had before the CCP brainwashed and propagandized everythin, that China would be polluted all to hell for the sake of money money money, feed the people money so they worship us (CCP) cause all they care about is money cause their hearts are warped and we can stay in control of this big country… Evil.

October 28, 2007 @ 10:50 am | Comment

“You say they have made mistakes and I say they have committed evil systematically in an effort to solidify their cultish power and achieve their evil aims.”

Snow, have you read “Das Kapital” and the communist mannifesto? Tell me why communism is evil? So some communists have done bad things, does that mean you can say communism is evil? People have done bad things in the name of religion, are religions evil?

“Have you read David Kilgour and David matas’ report on organ harvesting?”

No I have not. The only organ harvesting bs I have read was from Dajiyuan, FLG’s propaganda outlet.

“Have you ever witnessed how the CCP incites hatred through its media and seen Chinese people turned into persecuting zombies due to the CCPs braiwashing and propaganda. They are bloody feirce, its super sickening, that’s what I call evil.”

Give me a break. Hatred? Hatred toward who? The west? @@## that. Western propaganda incites more anti-communist, anti-anything but western bs more efficient and faster than anything CCP propaganda churns out.

Chinese are not zombies, actually many of them have developed a knee-jerk reaction so that they dismiss anything coming from the CCP or the official propaganda. Many westerners like yourself, got brainwashed by western propaganda unknowingly, believing that they are telling the absolute truth simply because western media are supposed to be free.

“Would you say that Chinese people in China are materialists who only care about personal gain? ”

No I would not. This is stupid generalization.

“And wouldn’t you say that that is due to the CCPs destruction of culture and promotion of communist theory? I call that evil, the people have turned into beasts.”

Somebody attribute to the lack of religious beliefs, that might be a factor, but I think the very fact that many Chinese are still relatively poor and the fact that China is a developing country mean it is natural for people to seek material gains as a priority. When you are poor, hungry and cold, you certainly don’t have the luxury to talk about things other than materialistic stuff.

“Do you think that id China still had the culture that it had before the CCP brainwashed and propagandized everythin, that China would be polluted all to hell for the sake of money money money, feed the people money so they worship us (CCP) cause all they care about is money cause their hearts are warped and we can stay in control of this big country… Evil.”

You are helplessly simple-minded. Again as a developing and relatively poor country (so many poor people in China), making money is naturally the priority. They have realized how messed up their enviroment is and they are doing something about it. It might be too little too late, but at least they are doing something.

Seeing the CCP as the root of all evil in China is common among westerners who have been brainwashed. Many Chinese have broken free from the yoke placed on them by the CCP known as brainwashing, but so many westerners are still gladly victims of western propaganda.

Snow, why stay in the evil China? Why dodge the question?

October 28, 2007 @ 1:20 pm | Comment

Pffefer,

What makes you think that Snow is a “westerner”? How would you define a “westerner”? What makes you think that Snow is in China?

October 29, 2007 @ 12:24 pm | Comment

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