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Hacked By AdGhosT

Hacked By AdGhosT & Tayeb TN & bo hmid

 

 

 

 

 

close your eyes and listen Elfen Lied <3

Greets~:AdGhosT-- adel pro tn- Anonback Tnx - A_Ghacker - xvirus -Malousi Foryn - MaxKiller - Nexamos

Hu does he think he is fooling? » The Peking Duck

Hu does he think he is fooling?

Hu Jintao made a long speech today (Monday) – about two and a half hours – dealing with many topics. “Democracy” was mentioned many times, though I think Hu still doesn’t understand what it really means – if he does, he doesn’t like it as the CCP’s insistence on retaining control through thick and thin is hardly democratic.

In any case, one matter picked up on was a call for a “peace agreement” with Taiwan.

“On the basis of the one-China principle, let us discuss a formal end to the state of hostility between the two sides, reach a peace agreement, construct a framework for peaceful development of cross-strait relations and thus usher in a new phase of peaceful development.”

On the basis of the one-China principle. I.e. Taiwan should agree to unify without receiving any promises first. Stop me if I’m wrong, but why should the island give up its sovereignty for talks to merely happen? You may say Taiwan could back out of the 1CP if talks failed, but it would damage its credibility if Taiwanese independence was seen to be a flight of fancy rather than something it really believed in.

Taiwan has rightly rejected this “offer”.

Chinese President Hu Jintao on Monday offered talks on a formal peace accord with Taiwan, but Taiwan rejected the call, saying it is an independent country whose future must be decided by the Taiwan people. “We cannot discuss peaceful reunification with a regime that suppresses Tibet, shoots its own people and backs Myanmar’s military government,” Government Information Office Minister Shieh Jhy-wey told reporters.

“Taiwan’s founding principles are human rights and democracy. If Hu Jintao really places hope on the Taiwan people, as he said, he should listen to the Taiwan people’s voice. Although the Chinese Communist Party rules China, it does not represent the Chinese people,” Shieh said.

The thing is that what Hu said today is nothing new. China has proposed talks for years if the 1CP was followed by Taiwan’s government. Each time the response from Taipei has been “we would love talks – let’s drop the conditions”. And each time Beijing has insisted it can set whatever red lines it likes, whereas Taiwan can set none.

This is not unlike Hu’s entire approach to government. He sets the agenda. He says what goes and when. Everyone else has to accept any scraps thrown to them from the table. If they ask for a chair to sit at the table, a better cut of meat, a plate or whatever, no scraps will be given and they may get a beating into the bargain for daring to talk back. This rather mean approach to government cannot be veiled with an absence of overt threats towards a place like Taiwan, though I’m sure some naive/self-serving commentators will call it significant he didn’t threaten to invade the island for wanting to be independent from an oppressive autocracy like China.

Hu does he think he is fooling?

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Richard Burger is the author of Behind the Red Door: Sex in China, an exploration of China's sexual revolution and its clash with traditional Chinese values.

The Discussion: 76 Comments

And please, I don’t want to get into a debate about whether China has the balls and means.

October 20, 2007 @ 9:42 am | Comment

Nang, for god’s sake, use your brain. China does not regard Formosa as an independent country; while it is independently governed, it’s supposed to have been transfered to the Republic of China after WW2, a government that has already lost control of the Chinese mainland.

Snow, you’re nuts. If you think that a few Taiwanese cruise missiles can deter Zhongnanhai, a government that has run over protesters with tanks, from invading, you’ve obviously had too much methane from deep-green bullshit. I don’t disagree that there are possible deterrance factors that the RoC can pull out, but the missiles are utterly idiotic. What happens when the PLA manages to pull out American corpses from the rubble? British corpses? I respect the TI movement for their intelligent play and control of the propaganda war, but this is utter stupidity.

Faction of quacking canards, indeed. I was foolish in paying Nanhe the compliment on Tim Johnson’s blog.

October 20, 2007 @ 3:56 pm | Comment

the Falun Gong people don’t hurt anyone and they endure and keep speaking out with peacefulness and patience, could you be so virtuous?

Bullshit. No religion is pure. And especially those that are perpetuated by ultra-rich conmen, getting fat and lazy off the blood of their followers.

Oh, what happened to China’
s policy of non-interference in other countries’ internal politics?
ht*p://w*w.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-donors19oct19,0,4231217.story?coll=la-home-center

Oh, what happened to America fighting for freedom and not murdering people for natural resources? The “internal affairs” thing is Hu’s version of “freedom and democracy and anti-terrorism”. Only they haven’t used the excuse to butcher hundreds of thousands of people in a couple of years since reform an opening up at least.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1892888,00.html

As Michael Turton often comments, China is very good at pretending to be “concerned” and “offended

Yes.

October 20, 2007 @ 5:41 pm | Comment

” China has many missiles than Taiwan does, and China squeezes Taiwan internationally at every chance. I agree with you it is not fair. But that’s the reality of power politics.”

Yes, thats the reality, and China is not that popular in taiwan as you can imagine…

Speaking of Power politics, …this is precisely why some people are thinking of getting “power/attention” the quick and dirty way, aka the “lets – become- terrorists” approach …

October 21, 2007 @ 4:18 am | Comment

” I for one don’t see any hope of peaceful reunification. There will be a bloody and costly war. ”

OUCH. Thats harsh. What happens to all the “brotherly 同胞愛” stuff?
You see, I think the chinese ppl are quite confused about their feelings about taiwan too.

Anyways, it sounds like Taiwan really should have gone on and developed nuclear war heads all those years ago, and probably shouldn’t have dropped the development of bio-terrorism weapons under pressure from US, iether.

But if that was what happened, it probably wouldn’t have been the same taiwan I know about.

Taiwan made such a big mistake of not becoming a mafia country…sigh

We should have valued civilian lives/economy less and emphasized on military development…

who cares about costly war and blood shed accross the straight, eh?

October 21, 2007 @ 4:47 am | Comment

“Corruption > Index

Hello, the CCP employs the biggest propaganda machine int he world, so I’m not surprised that the > is such and such. ”

Snow, are you blind or something? The corruption index or whatever you call it, the CCP did not come up with it. Both URLs that I have provided to you are from western media, not Xinhua.

“Just look at the title, and you are telling me I don’t understand my language, hm.”

If your language is ignorance, you certainly do.

“Anyway, when you said the Falun Gong people besieged the newspaper office, what did you mean and how do you figure going to a newspaper office to complain about being slandered is unvirtuous? Isn’t that truthfulness? yeah. Did they do anything wrong that day? Then what’s is your problem.”

How about sending a letter to the editor’s office to protest that article? Just because there are limited means in China to voice one’s opinion, it doesn’t mean everytime you don’t agree with somebody you besiege their office or home. FLG doesn’t do what it preaches, a bunch of hypocrites.

October 21, 2007 @ 7:56 am | Comment

“Taiwan is not capable of hitting and crippling China’s major cities – its current missiles have neither the range nor are there enough of them. This is a very simple principle”

Just because a guy named Raj said so? Who the heck is Raj? What happened to Xiongfeng 3 that the Taiwanese officials boasted so much about?

“The Chinese don’t have any counter-measures, they just have their own weapons.

Are you kidding me? Having their own weapons is not a counter-measure? I was not just talking about having Patriot-type anti-missile missiles that could render American missiles into a bunch of scrap metal.

“Taiwan is threatened by China if it tries to obtain similar missiles to what the PRC has – it could be yet another convenient excuse for war on China’s part. At least the US accepts China can have its own weapons – China complains when Taiwan wants to buy anything from anyone.”

The US accepts China can have its own weapons? Gee, I guess sovereign countries like China have to obtain American permission before they arm themselves? Who the hell do you think the Americans are? God?

Mainland China is certainly not happy about Taiwan developing such capabilities, but if Taiwan insists, there is nothing mainland China can do about it. So I say, go ahead and develop your own long range missiles that could seriously cripple mainland China. Be my guest.

“ROFL, you really are a very sad Chinese apologist aren’t you? The missiles cause fear by themselves. Or would you be quite happy if I was your neighbour and pointed my shotgun at you every time you stepped out into the garden (you don’t have one by the way)?”

Again I have to drag the US into this discussion. The US does it all the time and gets away with it, why not China? Again, who is stopping Taiwan from developing counter-measures, capabilities to retaliate?

October 21, 2007 @ 8:05 am | Comment

“OUCH. Thats harsh. What happens to all the “brotherly “¯–Eˆ¤” stuff?

You see, I think the chinese ppl are quite confused about their feelings about taiwan too. ”

Chinese don’t fight Chinese, the Chinese tell me. But they are willing to fight those people (and these people don’t even consider themselves Chinese) if all other options have been exhausted. It is the last resort, but a viable albeit sad option.

“Anyways, it sounds like Taiwan really should have gone on and developed nuclear war heads all those years ago, and probably shouldn’t have dropped the development of bio-terrorism weapons under pressure from US, iether.

But if that was what happened, it probably wouldn’t have been the same taiwan I know about.

Taiwan made such a big mistake of not becoming a mafia country…sigh”

Actually, had Taiwan developed nuclear and bie and chemical warfare capabilities, it would have been taken out a long time ago, if mainland China follows the American school of thinking. It would have provided mainland China the perfect excuse to take out Taiwan.

“who cares about costly war and blood shed accross the straight, eh?”

Last resort. But if you talk to enough Taiwanese youth, you get the impression that they can hardly wait. “Come you Chinese hogs, Daiwan banzai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

October 21, 2007 @ 8:13 am | Comment

“Only they haven’t used the excuse to butcher hundreds of thousands of people in a couple of years since reform an opening up at least.”

Like E. Turkestan and Tibet? Or supporting the Kim family and Myanmar’s generals? NK alone accounts for over 1 million dead from starvation and dehydration over the past 30 years.

“Actually, had Taiwan developed nuclear and bie and chemical warfare capabilities, it would have been taken out a long time ago, if mainland China follows the American school of thinking.”

Some of the American school of thinking comes from reading Sun Zi, but back when Taiwan was planning NBC development, China only had copies of Russian bombers to deliver nukes. ROCAF would have knocked them down inside of Chinese territorial waters.

Bad, ugly, rotten China.

October 21, 2007 @ 10:07 am | Comment

It certainly wasn’t China who recently invaded two sovereign countries, who is directly and indirectly responsible for tens and thousands of death, and growing.

If China is bad and ugly and rotten, I don’t even know what @#$ is.

October 21, 2007 @ 11:01 am | Comment

“It certainly wasn’t China who recently invaded two sovereign countries, who is directly and indirectly responsible for tens and thousands of death, and growing.”

How about the colonization of S. Pacific islands with male Chinese laborers?

October 21, 2007 @ 1:58 pm | Comment

Straight out of VOA, RFA of course. By the way, you know where Guam is, right? Last time I checked, it was not far from Japan. The US being a northern American state, talk about colonization!!

October 21, 2007 @ 2:01 pm | Comment

Guys, stay on topic. Any more off-topic comments are liable to be junked – then you’d have to ask Richard to restore them. We’re talking about the relationships between China and Taiwan.

Pffefer

“Just because a guy named Raj said so?”

No, because defence correspondents say so. If you want to allege that Taiwan already has a significant missile stock that could devastate Chinese cities, please give us some hard information.

What happened to Xiongfeng 3 that the Taiwanese officials boasted so much about?

The Hsiung Feng III missile is an anti-ship missile with a maximum range of approximately 200km. It isn’t designed for land-attack but destroying PLAN shipping. So you’re barking up the wrong tree.

Having their own weapons is not a counter-measure?

No, because they can’t stop the attack once initiated. A real counter-measure can stop something even when set in motion.

Gee, I guess sovereign countries like China have to obtain American permission before they arm themselves?

No, but China believes it has a right to veto arms sales to Taiwan. That’s the difference.

The US does it all the time and gets away with it, why not China?

China has its own gun to point back at the US – Taiwan does not.

Again, who is stopping Taiwan from developing counter-measures, capabilities to retaliate?

China and to a lesser extent the US. China keeps talking about “provocation” because of Taiwanese arms developments and whinges to the US to stop Taiwan. It also implies it could be something that will cause a war. It even complains if Taiwan builds anti-missile defences.

October 21, 2007 @ 6:48 pm | Comment

Question, Raj, how is any of this irrational or counterproductive from the PoV of 中南海?

October 21, 2007 @ 9:35 pm | Comment

Ok, you guys are arguing over an issue that has no logical answer. The issue of “whether Taiwan should go independent” depends on whose side you are on. If you are a Taiwan Greenie, then of course Taiwan should go independent. If you are a mainlander, then of course Taiwan must not go independent. So stop arguing and trying to convince the other, it’s so idiotic.

This is sort of like debating the question “Do you think we should love America?” between an American citizen and a foreign citizen. It makes no sense.

Questions like these are “ass controls head” questions. What is an “ass controls the head” question? It means your ass is where you sit, meaning which team you are on. And since your head is connected to your ass by your body, where you are sitting invariably decides your views on many issues.

And the Taiwan issue is one of those issues.

By the way, “ass controls your head” is coined by Mao.

October 21, 2007 @ 11:39 pm | Comment

Raj, everybody knows that China protests a lot (“hurting Chinese people’s feelings), but beyond that it can’t do much. The US has sold F16s to Taiwan, mainland China protested, so what happened? The jets were sold. Taiwan can do the same, and the Americans will be more than happy to make some cheap money.

October 22, 2007 @ 12:22 pm | Comment

“By the way, you know where Guam is, right? Last time I checked, it was not far from Japan. The US being a northern American state, talk about colonization!!”

So where are the complaints about the US presence? And the Japanese were driven off, but you don’t pay much attention to history. And Guam gets paid for that US presence as well.

When it comes to weapons sales to Taiwan, China can’t do much to the US itself, but the threat of what could happen to US companies in China is enough to make the US think twice.

China is simply worried about ROCAF maintaining near numerical and qualitative parity with the PLAAF forces that can reach Taiwan.

October 22, 2007 @ 3:28 pm | Comment

I don’t agree with Thieves in Suits’s “ass control head” theory about the Taiwan issue. The future of Taiwan is one of the major contributing factors to security in the Asian-Pacific region. As such, it should be open for debate among concerned members of the international community. Besides, there are more options for Taiwan’s future than what the “Taiwan Greenies” or the “Mainland Commies” prefer.

October 22, 2007 @ 9:16 pm | Comment

I don’t agree with ass controls head at all either. Of course if mao pronounced it (its probly in his little evil book) then that explains why its a simplistic and rediculous concept promoted as reality.

I am from Canada, so why do I care about China, Taiwan etc? Why do Americans criticise America?

You think the world is like the party says it is? Its not. It’s like saying a person will never criticise himself, it might seem that way sometimes, but it’s a load of crap, you can say that about all your rediculous marx lenin Mao jiang thought crap.

October 22, 2007 @ 10:38 pm | Comment

Whoever said that compromising and crouching under the communists for so called peace is sadistic and warped and has nothing to loose by the world turning to total hellcrap.

Kowtowing to CCP to save your but in any sense is sorta like, if your getting raped, you can struggle less in order to save yourself the extra cuts and bruises,

In that case the rapist uses his threats to make you let him in easy laughing at the whole situation…..

If we don’t stand up for what’s right even if the bad guy is scary, then the world will just be so easily taken over by the ass, and then, the world will be ass world, of course.

Theres a lot that can be done without getting into a war with the CCP… My understanding is that if the Chinese people werent brainwashed, they would stand up for themselves and would not be fed the poop of the party. So thats why we should do something to have true information be more widely known. DOWN WITH THE CENTRAL PROPAGANDA DEPARTMENT, AND DOWN WITH CCP SECRECY. And of couse, the world would be a better place without that stupid party.

Chinese people, can you conceive of a world without the CCP? Has it ever crossed your minds that there could be better options that always following their crap?

If not, you’re brainwahsed to think that they are forever (or at least for 2oo years er whatever) Chinas overlords.

October 22, 2007 @ 10:47 pm | Comment

ps

I’m not China bashing, if you think hating the CCP is China bashing because you can’t separate China from the stupid party, you are brainwashed.

October 22, 2007 @ 10:49 pm | Comment

“So where are the complaints about the US presence? ”

Hahaha, isn there not enough complaints about American presence everywhere?

“When it comes to weapons sales to Taiwan, China can’t do much to the US itself, but the threat of what could happen to US companies in China is enough to make the US think twice.”

So? The noble US can tell China to eat @#$%, after all all the US cares about is “democracy” and “freedom”, right? Give China the middle finger, what is the US afraid of?

October 23, 2007 @ 1:55 am | Comment

snow, are you on drugs? I wouldn’t be surprised if this kind of desparate and hystercial rhetoric comes from some typical westerner who has never set his feet outside his country, be it Canada or whatever, but you? A resident Canadian in China? How long have you lived in China? 2 weeks?

Instead of helplessly getting brainwashed by Joe McCarthy’s, VOA’s, your PM Harper’s or master Li’s crap, you should be talking to real Chinese citizens while you can. Don’t confine your sample to just FLG people.

Instead of cursing the CCP to death in front of your computer, why don’t you help start a demonstration, better yet, a movement that might topple the CCP? You never know, you might be contacted by the US government and get some funding for that, if you are lucky enough.

Yell your heart out, it ain’t gonna work unless you do something, snow. Coordinate rebellions. Storm Zhongnanhai. Hijack government buildings. Kidnap some CCP officials. China’s future is in your hands.

Well? hahaha

October 23, 2007 @ 2:08 am | Comment

“When it comes to weapons sales to Taiwan, China can’t do much to the US itself”

Having good relationship with the US is a top priority for China and China benefits hugely from this relationship. But if it is forced to, China can make lots of things difficult for the US too. For example, if the US sales more F16 to Taiwan, China can give its equivalent advanced fighter jets J-10 to countries like Iran or North Korea.

As things are going now, it is hard to say who has more leverage over whom 20 years from now.

October 23, 2007 @ 2:28 am | Comment

pfeffer, I totally didnt get your point, your childishness makes me think maybe there wasn’t one to get…

How can you assume so much about me like who the Chinese people I know are and stuff?

A lot of people don’t see the CCP as the scum of the earth, but, a lot of people do as well, so what’s so hard to understand?

October 23, 2007 @ 1:54 pm | Comment

Raj and Richard,

I think it’s about time to close this thread. The whole thing has fast disintegrating into mud sling tournaments showing casing snow vs pfeffer and nanhe vs z.

October 23, 2007 @ 4:13 pm | Comment

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