China’s approach to developing countries way better than the World Bank’s

A most interesting read. I’ve always praised Hu’s shrewd approach to foreign relations, especially his courting of developing countries whose resources will prove vital to China’s continued growth. This tells me China’s leadership does indeed know what it’s doing, at least outside its own borders.

The Discussion: 62 Comments

sorry that was so long and rambling, by the way. I’m new to this.

June 1, 2007 @ 6:54 pm | Comment

“They say America has already lost Africa and China is winning them over. I don’t know if the sentiments are the same back in Africa, but this is what they say.”

These Africans actually purport this ? 400 years of slavery and colonialism, present day economic bondage, and the US still hasn’t won the hearts and minds of Africa ? Ingrates, every last one of them.

The real isse here, if you don’t mind me saying, is that there are people on this earth that actually consider this a surprise and need to “find out” that they aren’t beloved the world over. Its called: ideological indoctrination based on one idea: racial superiority.

The CPP does not have the sole rights to ideological indoctrination. Compared to the New York Times, the People’s Daily is child’s play propaganda- did the Times even run Sach’s article ? Doubtful, but I’d like someone to surprise me.

June 1, 2007 @ 8:26 pm | Comment

“Your agenda is beginning to show – just beneath that chip on your shoulder: this is not a racial debate.”

Call it culture if you wish then, or some other euphemism, if you want to hide behind a disgusting mockery of post-modern pseudo-egalitarian thought and insult everyone’s intelligence. This ties into all of your (and nhyrc’s) reactionary spoutings; leave the paternalistic attitude at the door. I don’t think anyone in the developing world needs talking down from some mellowed-out league of former (and current, in the case of gorge arbusto) gangster/terrorist states.

Please tell me you aren’t too obtuse to see that China doesn’t have the same horrible track record of Europe (mainly, the G8). Sure, it’s easy to create a network of exclusive economies based on resources from colonial holdings and then slowly mellow out. After they’ve gotten rich and fat, maybe they can eventually afford to let “negro” have some shred of dignity and semi-human treatment after 400 years.

But po’ ne-gro n’ africa sho’ don’ know what good fo’ him no how!

Why don’t you try posting objective facts and not neonazi/bush propaganda about this issue? It would be helpful, thanks. I don’t believe Senegalese are held at gunpoint on random pollings about the Chinese. Maybe in your twisted hollyweird wet dreams of Chinese Hitler.

“Imagine how well they would be doing if they took back control of their own resources.”

Go look it up in their past demographics and growth trends.

“Again, you’re using past transgressions to justify China’s contemporary exploitation of the same people.”

China’s net effect on Africa is positive, so far.

June 1, 2007 @ 9:42 pm | Comment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrice_Lumumba

Ah, democracy-loving america and europe! literally pays to murder a democratically elected leader and places a dictator in his place.

Not unlike the CIA’s meddling in Tibet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Mossadeq

More love of democracy! Americans get to vote on where your oil goes.

Susan Sontag was 100% right.

June 1, 2007 @ 10:33 pm | Comment

Imagine how well they would be doing if they took back control of their own resources.

Actually, Mexican did that to the major oil companies for their oil fields after US companies built them, and guess what? The workers and average civilians lives didn’t improve at all. All the money went to few people (even my Mexican friends admit that if they don’t come to US, there is absolute no chance for them in current Mexican society). After all these years, the oil fields are so badly managed, some of them can’t even produce any oil due to bad equipments. Now Mexico is asking the US companies to come back again, do you know what’s the anwer? Hell NO! So now I give you a real life example, you got anything more to add staurt about your argument?

June 2, 2007 @ 4:49 am | Comment

Bleak future for Beijing’s heritage http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6709099.stm 
 The “communist ie, atheist, materialist way stinks like poisonous air! yeah I’m not saying that other countries arent pathetically focused on the material gains, but the CCP is the leader at zealously pursuing and ignoring all but material gain and selfishness. I’ll be back later to sight some facts…

June 2, 2007 @ 6:23 am | Comment

Heres a follow up to the article about foreign teachers haing to follow the party s propaganda in their teaching… Censored B.C. schools in China ‘sub par’ http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=ee619f15-afdb-43ca-8de8-d0835882f4c2 
> > B.C. schools in China are making false claims if they say they are > delivering the B.C. curriculum while also avoiding hot topics such > as Tiananmen Square, China’s relationship with Taiwan and its > human-rights record, educators said Thursday. > > Schools that are unwilling to tackle controversial issues are > delivering a watered-down education that is not worthy of a B.C. > graduation diploma, said Charles Ungerleider, an education > professor at the University of B.C. > > “An education is designed to lead you out from the narrow confines > of your previous knowledge and experience,” said Ungerleider, who > was deputy education minister from 1998 to 2001. “If education > doesn’t do that, it has failed you.” I’m pointing this out because people who receive propaganda educations are being cheated. People in China under these weird directives are being trained as tools in the partys endeavor to control… Milse, The thing is that we have to ask ourselves, or find out what is the reason for the lying and cheating? How does the CCP benefit by warping peoples minds? What is the truth of the matters? Thats what I want to examine.

June 2, 2007 @ 6:42 am | Comment

Official surveys in China indicate that there are 3,220 Chinese people with personal assets exceeding 100 million yuan, but 2,932 of those persons are the children of high-ranking CPC cadres and government officials. Moreover, as of the end of 2004, nearly 200 million farmers in China had lost their farmland because of the Chinese authorities’ unjust expropriation of land. These farmers have been unable to find employment and also lack even minimal social protections. The aforementioned problems arise from the unrestricted privileges of China’s high-ranking party cadres and government officials. As such, there has been insufficient political protection for the rights and interest of the general public in China. http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Chen-yuan+Tung%3A+China+deno unces+U.S.+human+rights+'abuses'+while+persecuting+its+own+people&articleId=f 199ff10-b74d-40b3-bebc-17baa670a23a Beijing's criticism of the human rights situation in the United States only further highlights the guilty conscience and absurdity of the Chinese government in this regard. In February, Parade magazine published a list of the ”World’s 10 Worst Dictators” based on reports by global human-rights organizations, including Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Reporters Without Borders, and the U.S. Department of State. Chinese President Hu Jintao ranked fourth on its list, up two places from the 2006 list. As Hu rises in his ranking on the list, the human rights situation in China worsens. I’ll change computers and get rid of this ridiculous formatting problem soon.

June 2, 2007 @ 7:01 am | Comment

I checked New York Times propagnada on the reporters without borders site and i got a lot about their journalists being harrassed and jailed in China, but the most clear about propaganda was about the 9/11 Iraq situation. watched a good PBS documentary about the zealotry that the US media fell into during that time (and is probly continuing to a lesser degree now since so much info has upturned) There are always motives and often emotions when people put out communications and the new york times and other papers cannot be considered objective necessarily. BUT… If you check propaganda Xinhua on RSF, you get this report among files and files of documentation of Chinas propaganda media. There are people in this forum who are playing people for fools. God bless organizations and people who care about the truth and help us not be victims of CCP unbridled antihuman lying! Between the pull of patriotism and self-censorship http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=2533 Xinhua: the world�s biggest propaganda agency http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=15172

June 2, 2007 @ 7:48 am | Comment

“I don’t think anyone in the developing world needs talking down from some…gangster/terrorist states.”

A line straight out of the CCP apologist’s handbook on how to deal with outside criticism. You can deny and disguise all you want, but it’s clear who gave you your ‘education.’

Please try and add something original to the issue, even if it means putting down your handbook and replacing it with a bottle of decent liquor.

June 2, 2007 @ 12:20 pm | Comment

So, I’m confused, what is the argument here? Are we arguing whether or not the CCP represses its people? I don’t think anyone in the world (except for a couple thousand fanatics) would say that they don’t.

Snow, you want to know why the communists censor and lie. That’s easy, the same reason any one else censors and lies (this includes the US and Japan, to start with developed nations): if you control what the people know, to some degree you control what they think. The CCP has to do this to retain control over this sprawling, disorganized nation. I’m not sure this point is up for debate. (Though I’m sure someone will contradict me.)

I think the more interesting question is what should be done. This one’s a lot harder and I definitely don’t have an answer. Do we implement full-scale democracy right now? What does that even mean? How would you even conceive going about it? Would the Chinese people want that? An important part of democracy, I think, is that people, and I mean large portions of the people, have to really know what it is and want it before it will work. (As a side note, it’s interesting to look at Bhutan, which is right now implementing democracy because the king decreed it. Most of the people are against it. I really wonder how that will work out. But I don’t think Bhutan is comparable to China.) Looking at the interview with the Tiananmen demonstrator and drawing from my personal experiences, I don’t know that most Chinese want democracy, or even really know what it entails. Most Chinese I talk to are uncomfortable with the idea of politicians openly rangling over different positions. I’m American. I like open debate. But that doesn’t mean it’s what everyone wants. Or at least not just yet. So, what do we do? I’m of the wait and watch camp, but maybe that’s because I don’t have any other bright ideas. I’m open to suggestions.

As for Africa, it’s obvious China is only in this for the resources. So, again, the question is: what other plans do you have? For China, this move makes perfect sense, which I think was the point of Richard’s header. (Of course, it only works if China can keep staving off international critics of its participation in dictatorships. Though, I think China will find a way to reel in things a bit in places like the Sudan to keep the harshest critics off its back.) For most African countries there aren’t a whole lot of other alternatives. Western aid is too focused on rhetoric (as Sachs pointed out). So, what else is there? Just turn down money for infrastructure? There is talk of finding an “African way,” but what does that mean? Does that mean turning away all foreign investments? Is there one modern country that has pulled itself up out of poverty without foreign investments? My modern world history is very incomplete, so I’d love an example. (And, man, is that question paternalistic.) I realize that a large part of the Chinese money goes to propping up dictatorships that often mirror the Chinese system, thus stifling the natural growth of an “African way,” but I really don’t think just leaving them alone is an option that has very many benefits for anybody. Again, I’d love to compare this to an example of a poor country that pulled itself up on it’s own.

Sorry for the rambling again.

milse

June 2, 2007 @ 3:44 pm | Comment

but it’s clear who gave you your ‘education.’

Hey Stuart how about my Mexico example. I am going down to Tijuana today, and I am just about to tell my Mexican friends that some poeple think average Mexican got any benefit out of nationalizing their oil industry. I know I will get a big laugh out of this.

Btw, I am educated in a gangster (definitely)/terrorist (depending on the definition) states if you mean the USA.

June 3, 2007 @ 4:37 am | Comment

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