India vs. China

Many thanks to the reader who alerted me to this gem of a story (three days old, I’m afraid). A BBC reporter compares his personal experience as a visitor to Beijing and to New Delhi, and his conclusions are exactly the same as those of my personal friends and blog buddies who have spent time in both cities. The bottom line: China has its negatives, but compared to India it is nothing short of paradise.

Every time you turn on the television or pick up a magazine, it is no longer the rise of China, it is now the rise of China and India. The desire to make comparisons is understandable. Both have more than a billion people. Both are growing at 10% a year.

There are, I suspect, many who are hoping that India, with its freedom and democracy, will win this new race to become the next economic super power. I am not so sure. I have spent the last eight years living in Beijing, and only four days in Delhi, so comparisons are difficult. But the few days I recently spent in India made me look at China in a new light.

Delhi is an overwhelming experience. It is as if all of humanity has been squeezed into one city. The streets groan under the weight of people. The air is filled with deafening noise and sumptuous smells.

Switch on the television and it is the same. Between channels blasting out voluptuous Bollywood love stories and pop videos, an endless stream of news channels dissect the latest political scandals, and debauched lifestyles of the rich and famous.

Coming from China it is an almost shocking experience. But after the initial delight at being in an open society, I started to notice other things.

The hotel was expensive and bad. In my room I searched for a high speed internet connection, a standard feature in any hotel in China. There was not one. Then with the night-time temperature still well above 30C (86F) the power went out.

I lay for hours soaked in sweat trying, and failing, to get back to sleep and wishing I was back in Beijing where the lights never go out.

It gets funnier (in a painful kind of way), so check it out. The reporter concludes, “China is not a free society, and it has immense problems. But its successes should not be underestimated. They are ones that India, even with its open and democratic society, is still far from matching.”

I have never been to India, and I have to admit it is one of the few places on earth I have next to zero interest in visiting. This is the effect of word-of-mouth; everyone I talk to about India tells me the same thing. Absolutely everyone. Distilled version: “No matter how bad China may be in terms of services, you haven’t seen anything like the sheer anarchy you’ll find in Bangalore or New Delhi. The word ‘shithole’ comes inevitably to mind.” When I hear this from so many people I know and trust, I suspect there has to be something to it. Read this delightful post for verification – when these guys say India makes them love China, you know India’s got an image issue.

The Discussion: 101 Comments

I spent two years in China and I’ve been to India six times (OK, my family’s Indian, so I’m biased). But you must remember you’re not comparing like with like!

Rupert Wingfield-Hayes comments in the BBC are spot on – compared to China, India basically stinks. But one does need to spend some time there to appreciate the good side. I don’t think there’s any particular difference in the lying, corruption and cheating that goes on but in terms of sightseeing, India beats China hands down. China is so sterile while India is so alive. And never forget that though it is deeply flawed, India is a democracy under the rule of law and actually broke up over the last 60 years, rather than clinging to the dangerous myth of ‘One China’.

July 25, 2006 @ 3:12 am | Comment

India might have it’s issue’s but it’s improving! Maybe if they throw some more dissidents in jail and get them to stop using electricity, and take their land at gunpoint, we can build more power plans in India. Or force the dissidents into labor, running in those mice cylinders.

Seriously though, I have never met an Indian that said they’d rather have India be ruled the way the CCP rules China, just to have the number one growth rate.

July 25, 2006 @ 6:59 am | Comment

After returning from a trip to India, TTC’s DD wrote “Why I love China.”

July 25, 2006 @ 8:28 am | Comment

Sonagi, read my post carefully – I beat you to it!

July 25, 2006 @ 8:51 am | Comment

With its population and environmental disaster close to maturity, India will definitely collapse with disastrous human suffering, as what is already going on. Human beings should learn self-control, for the bettering of everyone’s life. Who can speak anything he wants? Tell me one person that can speak anything he wants to anyone. Democracy leads to the suffering of millions in India today. Democracy, and the resulting socialist welfare system, leads to the economic recession in Western Europe today. The economic recession, in turn, exacerbate race and other social tensions. As a result, people are killed in mass for this.

July 25, 2006 @ 10:02 am | Comment

Jessica, I don’t know whether to delete you or reply. Maybe some combination of both. Have you ever been to Western Europe?! There isn’t a place on earth that doesn’t have problems, but in terms of societies that work, Western Europe does pretty damn well. It’s clean, people have enough to eat, they have medical care, the cities by and large are livable and pleasant. You can point to the riots in Paris all you want, but considering that China has had 87,000 “disturbances” by the government’s own measure, I wouldn’t.

July 25, 2006 @ 11:29 am | Comment

Every person who has been to Paris agrees with me – it is quick dirty. Lisa, do you ever go to Paris?

July 25, 2006 @ 12:55 pm | Comment

Yes, I have been to Paris, though not for a few years. The central city is beautiful and charming. It would not be my first choice of a place to live in Europe, but it is a world city for a reason.

July 25, 2006 @ 1:19 pm | Comment

Jessica, you are really too much. You just keep saying “Paris is dirty,” which proves…what, exactly? Oh, right, that democracies don’t work.

I am not European, but I am quite comfortable saying that the Western European democracies provide for their citizens the highest standards of living in the world. European cities in general are livable and comfortable, compared to anything you will find anyplace else, and that includes many American cities, and it certainly includes the vast majority of Chinese cities.

Obviously you can’t see this, Jessica, but the “arguments” you put forth to justify your points of view support nothing and convince no one.

July 25, 2006 @ 3:23 pm | Comment

Many Indians seem to have an inferiority complex when it comes to comparing India with China in economic terms. So much so that truth is often distorted to “soothe” someone’s suffering ego. Two cases in point:

In the Jul/Aug issue of Foreign Affairs, Curcharan Das describes China’s strength as “low-end manufacturing” and India is strong in “high- tech, high-skilled manufacturing.”

Responding to a recent issue of Time on the rise of India, K. V. Krishnan commented that “Unlike China, which gatecrashed into Western households with everything from kitch knives to toilet-tissue holders, India has made an unhurried entry through communication portals.”

Guess some Inidan elites despise the idea of making kitchen knives and toilet tissue holders and creating jobs for their fellow citizens.

July 25, 2006 @ 4:01 pm | Comment

Actually (I) like you and Richard to keep badmouthing China. Your actions actually help to solve the upcoming illegal immigration problem of China.

The Peking Duck is very positive towards China. Richard’s fondness for the land and its people is quite obvious, and it’s only its abyssmal leadership which comes in for criticism. I can imagine people spending time here becoming quite interested in China and wanting to visit, perhaps staying to work and find a Chinese partner, having kids…. So from Jessica’s point of view, the Peking Duck is really is the worst of both worlds.

July 25, 2006 @ 6:07 pm | Comment

Oops, it looks like Jessica’s gone already.

July 25, 2006 @ 6:10 pm | Comment

Sorry Peter, she knows she’s not welcome. Thanks for your comment, but don’t expect to turn Jessica around. She’s impervious to truth.

July 25, 2006 @ 6:18 pm | Comment

What I love about Jessica’s comments is that absolutely everything is considered an “attack on China” – even a post that favorably compares China to India.

Peter, FYI, Jessica lives in the States. Which makes it especially amusing when she starts ranting for all of us to “go home!”

July 25, 2006 @ 6:26 pm | Comment

I know. Some CCP apologists are intelligent and rational, but for most of them truth and logic are just rhetorical devices.

July 25, 2006 @ 6:31 pm | Comment

This is certainly a good discussion topic. I have found that left-leaning, New Agey types normally have nothing good to say abuot China, its people and future scenarios of its course of progress. On the other hand, India seems to appeal to their likinngs, for being immensely more spiritual, exotic, less go-getter, exotic, less threatening, exotic…..

I was amused to see how this discussion went off its course and it seems like it’s really about the leagacy of Western Europe’s colonialism. I understand that’s a big topic in itself, but I want to just say that let’s not get locked into merely discussing whether Paris is beautiful or dog scag covered (which are both true).

July 25, 2006 @ 6:39 pm | Comment

Peter, FYI, Jessica lives in the States. Which makes it especially amusing when she starts ranting for all of us to “go home!”

It seems a bit strange for an arch-nationalist to choose a name like Jessica. Wouldn’t a Chinese name be more patriotic? Also, why a woman’s name? I’d be surprised if “Jessica” is really female. Perhaps he’s a cross-dresser who likes to drape himself in the flag.

July 25, 2006 @ 6:55 pm | Comment

hey, I’m a lefty, well, not exactly new ager type, but…anyway, it cracks me up that jessica accuses me of being “anti-China” when the vast majority of what I say is positive – and I’ve never been that drawn to India either…

July 25, 2006 @ 7:07 pm | Comment

You know you’ve been in China too long when you visit Paris and marvel at how courteous and solicitous the service is.

July 25, 2006 @ 7:36 pm | Comment

This is certainly a good discussion topic. I have found that left-leaning, New Agey types normally have nothing good to say abuot China, its people and future scenarios of its course of progress. On the other hand, India seems to appeal to their likinngs, for being immensely more spiritual, exotic, less go-getter, exotic, less threatening, exotic…..

That’s plausible. Anyone going to China hoping to find a spiritual Shangri-La of people seeking enlightenment rather than crass materialism is bound to be disappointed. Of course it’s debatable whether you’re more likely to find that in India, but the illusion is probably easier to sustain when there isn’t so much in-your-face wealth and consumption.

On the other hand, China ought to appeal to those right-leaning types who like strong, top-down leadership and don’t have time for environmentalism, welfare, unions, minority rights etc.

July 25, 2006 @ 7:53 pm | Comment

Or minarchist utilitarians like me lol. Has anyone noticed that China’s government spending grows SLOWER than it’s GDP? (Unlike any other country of the G-20).

July 25, 2006 @ 8:52 pm | Comment

I posted about this story a few days ago. I think it’s a ridiculous topic for the BBC to be discussing, particularly given the writer had little or no prior experience of India before his 4 days there, and had lived in China for 8 years. BBC claims to be the most authoritative news source in the world, but when it indulges in this sort of garbage argument it had me reaching for Xinhua. OK, not really.

This is a circular argument, a chicken and egg for this era of superpower expansion:
“China has roads.”
“But India has free speech.”
“Yes, but China is cleaner.”
“But, but, India has freedom of religion don’t you know.”
“But, so does China to a considerable extent.”
“No it doesn’t! China supresses religious groups! The CCP suck!”
“Jessica Copeland: China is the best place on earth, how can you ignorant barbarians feel worthy of criticising the motherland? Piss off all of you, this is my house!”

As you can see, this sort of debate is much better for rubbish blogs than proper news sites. The BBC should be embarrassed, and instruct their correspondent to find one of the millions of fascinating stories happening every day across China. Leave the chicken and egg to the Peking Ducks.

July 25, 2006 @ 8:58 pm | Comment

I can’t access the article from China (BBC) even the usual proxies I use are no good. Any advice or chance of getting it posted in it’s entirety here?

July 25, 2006 @ 10:07 pm | Comment

Let’s see if it’ll fit into a comment:

India struggles to catch China
BBC’s Rupert Wingfield-Hayes

By Rupert Wingfield-Hayes
BBC News, Delhi and Beijing

The rapid growth of the Indian and Chinese economies have transformed the two countries in recent years. But this prosperity has also brought other problems.

I think it was in 2003, that the world suddenly woke up to China.

I am not sure what caused it to happen, what particular event or news story. I just remembered the phone in the BBC’s Beijing Bureau started ringing and it has not stopped since.

Well now it is happening again and this time it is not China, it is India.

Every time you turn on the television or pick up a magazine, it is no longer the rise of China, it is now the rise of China and India.

The desire to make comparisons is understandable. Both have more than a billion people. Both are growing at 10% a year.

Delhi is an overwhelming experience. It is as if all of humanity has been squeezed into one city
There are, I suspect, many who are hoping that India, with its freedom and democracy, will win this new race to become the next economic super power. I am not so sure.

I have spent the last eight years living in Beijing, and only four days in Delhi, so comparisons are difficult.

But the few days I recently spent in India made me look at China in a new light.

‘Shocking experience’

Crowds of people and traffic in New Delhi
Over 15 million people live in Delhi
Delhi is an overwhelming experience. It is as if all of humanity has been squeezed into one city.

The streets groan under the weight of people. The air is filled with deafening noise and sumptuous smells.

Switch on the television and it is the same.

Between channels blasting out voluptuous Bollywood love stories and pop videos, an endless stream of news channels dissect the latest political scandals, and debauched lifestyles of the rich and famous.

Coming from China it is an almost shocking experience.

But after the initial delight at being in an open society, I started to notice other things.

Foreign tourists stared in bewilderment; locals with the resigned look of those used to waiting
The hotel was expensive and bad. In my room I searched for a high speed internet connection, a standard feature in any hotel in China. There was not one.

Then with the night-time temperature still well above 30C (86F) the power went out.

I lay for hours soaked in sweat trying, and failing, to get back to sleep and wishing I was back in Beijing where the lights never go out.

But getting back would not be easy.

Passenger queues

I looked at my plane ticket. Departure time 0315. Surely that could not be right.

I called the front desk. “That’s correct sir,” he said, “the airport is too small so many flights from Delhi leave in the middle of the night.”

He was not joking.

My taxi struggled along the Jaipur road towards the airport.

The two-lane road was clogged by an endless convoy of lorries. Finally I arrived at Indira Gandhi International airport. Despite the hour it was teeming with people.

The queues snaked around the airport and back to where they had started.

Foreign tourists stared in bewilderment. Locals with the resigned look of those used to waiting.

I could not help feeling a sense of relief at being back in a country where things work
“Is it always like this?” I asked a man in the queue ahead of me.

“Pretty much,” he sighed.

I was finally shepherded aboard the flight to Shanghai.

Next to me sat a friendly looking Indian man in shorts and running shoes.

“Is this your first trip to China?” he asked me.

“No,” I replied, “I live there.”

“Really,” he said, his interest piqued, “what should I expect?”

“I think,” I said, “you should expect to be surprised.”

Jaw dropping

Six hours later, our plane taxied to a halt in front of the soaring glass and steel of Shanghai’s Pudong International Airport.

As we emerged into the cool silence of the ultra-modern terminal, my new companion’s jaw slid towards his belly button.

“I was not expecting this,” he said, his eyes wide in wonder. “Oh no, I definitely was not expecting this”.

I also found myself looking at China afresh.

Later that day as I drove home from Beijing airport along the smooth six-lane highway I could not help feeling a sense of relief at being back in a country where things work.

And it was not just the airports and roads.

Driving through a village on the edge of Beijing I was struck by how well everyone was dressed.

In Delhi, I had been shocked to see thousands of people sleeping rough on the streets every night, nothing but the few rags they slept in to call their own. Even deep in China’s countryside that is not something you will see.

In Delhi I had been told of the wonders of India’s new economy, of the tens of thousands of bright young graduates churning out the world’s latest computer software.

I thought of China’s new economy, of the tens of millions of rural migrants who slave away in factories, making everything from plimsolls to plasma televisions.

And of the same rural migrants, heading home to their villages at Chinese New Year festival loaded down with gifts, their pockets stuffed full of cash.

China is not a free society, and it has immense problems. But its successes should not be underestimated.

They are ones that India, even with its open and democratic society, is still far from matching.

July 26, 2006 @ 1:02 am | Comment

Wow! I’m amazed. How dare you call another country a “shithole” when you are so enamored with China and the Chinese. I will refrain from calling China the proverbial “shithole,” but between deeply rooted ignorance, lack of education, complete lack of world view, lack of freedom of expression, lack of basic civility, rampant disregard for anything other than one’s own self interest in the next 3 to 5 meters, the superficial consumerism, the completely illegal government of thugs at all levels, the complete lack of a social safety net, the presence of a wholely corrupt AND incompetent police force, disregard for enviromental issues (all the while giving it lip service) it seems hard to find anything any truly admirable in China or with the Chinese, except maybe the ability of the average Chinese person to cope with these conditions day in and day out. Before you critciize India, spend a few weeks there. In general, I understand Richard’s love of a particular country and/or people, but I can’t understand labeling another country without any personal experience.

My criticism of China stems from having spend 1/2 of 2005 and most of 2006 in China. I will probably continue to spend more time here for personal reasons, but if given a choice, China would be a the “bottom of my list” for the reasons listed above.

July 26, 2006 @ 2:15 am | Comment

God, what a typical snide little chinese you’ve turned out to be. Tut tut.

July 26, 2006 @ 3:17 am | Comment

Ahmet, I have never called India a “shithole.” I quoted others who have, backing up the claims of the BBC reporter. But I have never been there and wouldn’t know.

July 26, 2006 @ 3:25 am | Comment

Lisa…I’m serious…do you and Richard co-moderate the site?

July 26, 2006 @ 6:35 am | Comment

I spent a semester in India studing, and the past two years in China, so I think I can make a half-decent comparison. The first point is that Beijing isn’t exactly China; if the BBC reporter had bothered to travel an half-hour outside the city to the next town, he would have found himself in practically a different country. Beijing is the apex of a huge kleptocracy, so its sheen of wealth and order is no big surprise, and certainly no indication of the state of the country as a whole. Someone should go compare a Chinese village with an Indian one, to get a better idea of what’s really going on.

My second point is openness. In India, my class had a string of Indian professors come to lecture us, and they willfully and enthusiastically told us about every social, economic, and political ill going on in that country. It could be harrowing at times, watching slide shows of kids working in the tanning pits, for example, but it was all out in the open and the Indians were working to solve their problems. In China, I have no idea what horrors are going on behind closed doors, away from Western reporters in their Sanlitunr bars. My Chinese students and friends might half-mention something, saying some villagers were bused to this warehouse and massacred, but I just don’t really know how bad things are in China, and I don’t thnk the Chinese really know either. Maybe social and political problems can be glossed over with wealth and industry, but I think India is making the wiser investment now, figuring itself out culturally and socially.

July 26, 2006 @ 7:53 am | Comment

I might agree with most of your points about freedom. However, the comparison to Beijing appears fair – the reporter is looking at New Delhi, not some Indian backwater, so a comparison with Beijing seems appropriate.

July 26, 2006 @ 7:57 am | Comment

Canrun, I help Richard out at times – I’m not on the level of co-moderator. I especially have not been keeping up any kind of posting lately…

July 26, 2006 @ 10:06 am | Comment

p.s. Canrun, why do you ask?

July 26, 2006 @ 10:15 am | Comment

Wheah!!!! I’m a pathetic, scrawny, racist little troll!!! No one likes me!!!! No one will play with me!!!

July 26, 2006 @ 10:31 am | Comment

Wow. This obsession with Poles is just too weird for words.

Jessica, I should mention that I know where you are posting from, and if you continue to abuse this board, I will complain to the computer lab where you are writing from that you are making racist comments using university equipment.

They don’t like that kind of thing in general.

(who is not Polish, at least not to my knowledge)

July 26, 2006 @ 6:09 pm | Comment

let us talk about Asia and not India and China.

India has its own strength so does China, if anything those two great nations should join hands to alleviate the miseries of poor and suffering rather than killing each other

July 26, 2006 @ 7:35 pm | Comment

China is atleast 3 times wealthier than India and the other way around, when it comes to freedom. Where would you prefer to live?

July 27, 2006 @ 12:40 am | Comment

Sure, India’s a tough place, but parts of it are sublime. Kerala? Simla and the rest of the Indian Himalaya? Sikkim? Bodh Gaya and the other Buddhist sites in Bihar? How about all the great restaurants in Bangalore, the intellectual life in Calcutta? If you’ve been to India and didn’t get it, well you must not be a very good traveler. And if you’ve never been to India, you should keep your opinions on the country to yourself.

It drives me nuts that today’s young China hands are all so soft. When I first lived in Beijing, 15 years ago, the typical westerner in China thought nothing of traveling four days in hard seat, taking a shower once every six weeks, and eating whatever was available in whatever hole-in-the-wall restaurant in whatever hole-in-the-wall town he or she happened to be in.

I hate to say it but my sense is that the westerners in China today are all a bunch of ponces. Sad to say, it’s almost getting to be like Japan, which has attracted generations of limp-wristed pansies afraid of getting a little dirty.

July 27, 2006 @ 12:49 am | Comment

Heh, Harding, I was in China in 79! And yet I did take showers more than once every six weeks…call me a softie.

I imagine I will get to India some day.

July 27, 2006 @ 12:55 am | Comment

Lisa..I know it’s off topic. I ask because you seem to be able to delete posts and know where people are writing from. I’m confused if it’s you or Rihard or both or others who have this ability. I have no hidden meaning in my question…I just am curious who the moderators of this forum are.

July 27, 2006 @ 6:25 am | Comment

Thanks for posting the whole article Richard.

July 27, 2006 @ 6:48 am | Comment

Being a communist state, it seems China is concerned about it image as a reflection of its “superior” (ie communist) ideology. Therefore, its cities must be modern, with tall skyscrapers, etc. to show the superiority of communism. Indian democracy isn’t really concerned about image. Perhaps business leaders are, but there is no way to coordinate large scale public projects designed SOLELY for pr purposes. I’ve not been to China (I would like to), and I’m not interested in trying to determine which is the “better” country. No doubt, the US is superior to both in terms of GDP per capita, but the actions of the gov’t. here in terms of foreign policy makes it an increasingly unpleasant place to live (at least for me). Some of these comments here seem quite immature and racist.

July 27, 2006 @ 7:34 am | Comment

I was in China twenty eight years ago and China was much worse than India now. But through hard work, Chinese have built up their economy. I am sure that same thing will happen to Indians too. They are smart and hard working people and they will do well.

July 27, 2006 @ 10:04 am | Comment

Canrun, this is Richard’s site. I handle admin duties in a pinch (emergency troll patrol) and have done some guest-posting when Richard was unavailable. Oh, and every once in a while I sternly admonish when things get way too far out of hand. But I’m not a moderator. If I can speak on Richard’s behalf, he believes in erring on the side of free expression. The only exceptions to that are people who continually insult or incite, and believe me, they get a whole long length of rope before that happens.

July 27, 2006 @ 4:44 pm | Comment

If you ask the average indian if he/she would give up their rights and freedoms in exchange for If you ask the average Indian if he/she would give up their rights and freedoms in exchange for the material wealth of the average Chinese, I’d think most the vast majority would politely say no thanks. If you’d ask the average Chinese to give up their material wealth for more freedom I bet the majority would say no as well. India is chaotic, it is dirty and it is poorly run, but Indians still love their country. Would we like to be richer – You bet. Would we like to be like China – No. Please refrain from posting inflammatory comments which if posted in your country, China would have you promptly arrested.

July 28, 2006 @ 12:15 pm | Comment

This article is entirely stupid. He goes to India, bitches about the lack of AC and internet access in its hotels, and concludes that India sucks. Does he work for The Lonely Planet or BBC News? He might as well devise his own ratings system. 1 and a half stars for India, 3 stars for China.

July 28, 2006 @ 7:10 pm | Comment

Indians rule the internet blogs, yeah…….

July 31, 2006 @ 10:06 pm | Comment

“sightseeing, India beats China hands down”?

REally? Is that why more people visite China and living in China then India? Why do Indian alway make up Shit? No wonder India still look 19 century rat hole!! because no one there want to know and accept the truth!

China have the Third most UNESCO World Heritage Site, you damn Indian fool! That mean China have way more sightseeing than your rathole!!

Now get real, and stop open your Indian mouth!!

August 12, 2006 @ 10:53 pm | Comment

Too all the indian in here, why are you even complaining and defending something that you know is true?

How long Indian been a free country? Why is still lack behind a commie country? Why do Indian have such a low IQ than Chinese? Where the freedom?

I’m an HK businessman for 10 years and i been to India and China. And what i see is that there no comparation between China and India. There no such thing call freedom for poor Indian. Children starving and getting beaten by cops on New Delhi is not what i call freedom.

August 12, 2006 @ 11:03 pm | Comment

Chinese suffer from inferiority complex, do they have a vibrant film Industry like bollywood or IT & BPO Industry estmated to be 100 Billion dollar. Are they democratic like India, freedom of speech and religion etc or
fast developing high tech and high skilled knowledge based industries like Biotech and Pharma research, also fluency in English and better financial system, all they are doing is making the quality of life for average chinese even worse by paying him $2 a day and producing toxic fumes from their sweatshops to produce kitchen knives and toilet paper for the west. Only one think they can be proud about is better infrastructure which is far better than Indian. China can be a poor replica of west, by making its big cities look cleaner but overwhelmingly China is an poor country.

September 3, 2006 @ 5:08 am | Comment

Chinese suffer from inferiority complex, do they have a vibrant film Industry like bollywood or IT & BPO Industry estmated to be 100 Billion dollar. Are they democratic like India, freedom of speech and religion etc or
fast developing high tech and high skilled knowledge based industries like Biotech and Pharma research, also fluency in English and better financial system, all they are doing is making the quality of life for average chinese even worse by paying him $2 a day and producing toxic fumes from their sweatshops to produce kitchen knives and toilet paper for the west. Only one think they can be proud about is better infrastructure which is far better than Indian. China can be a poor replica of west, by making its big cities look cleaner but overwhelmingly China is an poor country.

September 3, 2006 @ 5:11 am | Comment

perhaps indians would also like to shed some light on the rising incidents of credit card frauds their ‘high tech’ call center industry is indulging in

September 10, 2006 @ 5:18 pm | Comment

It’s a rediculous idea to copy west by erecting skyscrapers and force people out of the major cities to give a clean look just for show off or cosmetic purposes, this is only possible in dictatorship or communist country like China.

Western model is good to eradicate poverty to some extent but is not the solution to human suffering and problems as we can see the crime rate and corruption is among the highest in the western world. China is struggling to cope with rampant corruption, environmental degradation, pollution and poverty, only 300 million people are middle class, the situation is only superficially improved by the communist government to appear better than the west.

If India will start following the western model it will loose its character and become another country like Korea or Singapore. India has to develop its own solutions to fight corruption, poverty and social problems as western model has flaws and can’t be applied fully on Indians.
If applied it will make the life of average Indian as miserable as the life of average Chinese with government intervention and too much regulations. India is a free country more free than United States or UK- Born Free-Care Free-Live Free.

September 13, 2006 @ 6:15 am | Comment



September 13, 2006 @ 6:16 pm | Comment

It is known to the world that China harbours ambition to challenge superpower status of US, and all its development is focus around
its overzealous domination of the world. A country should not develop at the cost of its citizens, what is the use of such sort of development, where there is no improvement in the life of countless millions who are still living on less than $2 per day and all the wealth is going to less than 5% of its people.

This is western conspiracy to shift manufacturing jobs to China so that Chinese will die due to pollution and toxic waste before they will become rich and dominate the world. It has been predicted that China will become gray before it will become rich due to 1 child policy.

By contrast India don’t harbour any ambition to dominate the world, only 2% Indians live overseas a minuscle proportion in comparison to Chinese. India is an easy going country with little govt intervention in the life of its citizens and provide enormous amount of freedom in matter of laws, regulations, taxation, family matter or family size etc.

It’s good that India is unattractive to foreigners let them stay in their hell and make their laws strict against immigration.

Western style consumerism and lifestyle is catastrophic to the very survival of human kind.
It can’t be a solution to human suffering and problems. We have to find sustainable policies for growth and development and find better ways to reduce corruption, poverty and unequal distribution of wealth.

September 14, 2006 @ 7:00 am | Comment

then why is india eyeing china’s progress with envy if india has no interest in achieving what china has acheved?

September 14, 2006 @ 6:09 pm | Comment

Indians are jealous and insecure due to China’s stellar performance which India has no hopes of matching.There are hundreds of India vs China blogs in cyberspace where Indians give proof of their insecurity by making highly dubious claims of India surpassing China in the future claiming India’s ‘advantage’ of being a ‘free’ society’ which is nothing short of BS.

It is no fluke of history that China has remained a unified state for more than 20 centuries which is much longer than India being a single country at anytime in history.This enduring legacy of China is due to the tenacity of the Chinese national spirit which is completely absent in the highly divisive caste driven Indian nature.Indians are loyal to their caste first then to their country,they don’t posses the cohesion required at the national level to move forward as one to become great and strong.

Apart from similar population size,India has nothing else in common with China,so all this constant comparsion between India and China is just wishful thinking on the part of defeated and depressed Indians.

September 16, 2006 @ 7:02 pm | Comment

Fact Not Fiction : India is among the world’s top 5 largest economies(Purchasing power parity) with 8% GDP growth per annum with diverse multicultural population providing enough talent to fuel economic growth for decades to come. Democracy and freedom are the reality in modern India. The 300 million well to do middle class urban population is modern, educated and forward in their thinking having disposable incomes to buy consumer goods from latest gizmos, automobiles, computers, plasma TVs and good quality of life. Even this number is more than population of several European countries and equal to the population of US (3rd most populous) serve as a big market for foreign multinationals.

China has done certainly well and may be it is better than India in implementation of policies and acheiving better economic growth but that doesn’t neutralise the Indian acheivements and growth which is impressive and noteworthy.

The mood in India is upbeat about China growth, as they see their neighbour emerging as power to counter growing influence of western powers. It’s good that China is doing well or Asia is doing well as a whole, we all can learn from each other strength and weaknesses. Inspite of all its weaknesses Indian do make impact on the international level as a high growth knowledge based economy which has a promising future as its democracy matures and people are exposed to international environment they will be enlightened enough to think above their self interest and narrowmindedness to build a strong nation. Indian have nothing to loose, they can only gain learning from the past mistakes.

Comparisons are made from time to time, but do they really make any difference. The world most successful, technologically superior and powerful country is a democracy and is not homogenious and is a country of immigrants.
China’s blue collar army(manufacturing sector) and Indias service sector both are dependent on its success by the way of International trade.

People learn English and embrace western culture both in India and China which tells a lot about the success of western world.
The day world will start embracing china’s culture and accept chinese as an official language, will be the judgemental day about China’s influence but this situation looks remote to me even in coming 1000 years!!

September 18, 2006 @ 7:09 am | Comment

Chinese food,Chinese martial arts and Chinese actors like Jet Li,Jacky Chan are already big hits all over the world and Bruce Lee retains his legendary status around the world more than 30 years after his death just to name a few,compare that with how many people around the world prefer curry,bollywood and gatka/kalipatam.There are already schools in the UK which have included mandarin as a compulsory subject.Who cares for hindi? If Chinese culture and language will not be embraced by the world even in 1000 years then indian language and culture stands no chance even in 1 million years.

Nobody is writing India off as a future player of sorts on the global stage,just that India is not in the same weight class as China.

September 18, 2006 @ 6:10 pm | Comment

only chootias believe India can be superpower

India will never be superpower even in 1000 years so stop this ridiculous comparision with China.Chinese show the world their superpower potential with support of tangible proof unlike Indians who only know how to let out empty boasts.

All you desi morons should know that China is not new to the superpower thing,China is merely reasserting it’s position whereas for India the superpower hype is something totally new but Indians should know that India does not posses the mojo to become superpower

September 24, 2006 @ 5:59 am | Comment

I think India was never in the superpower
race, Indians should work hard to build infrastructure, reduce corruption, eradicate poverty and instill sence of pride in its poor and downrodden. For all poor Indian and Chinese these things have no significance who are fighting to stay alive and have two square meals a day.

Leave the superpower game for Chinese no matter if majority of them are poor but still have a sence of pride, really that’s incredible.

September 24, 2006 @ 9:05 pm | Comment

militarily,economically or diplomatically,China can screw India anytime

October 1, 2006 @ 9:29 am | Comment

Chinese will be screwed by west before they even think of invading India. A 3rd world communist crap dreaming of ruling the world as if India don’t have nuclear wepons or missiles for its defence, or it don’t enjoy diplomatic relations with western countries.
Stop dreaming!

October 1, 2006 @ 9:45 pm | Comment

ha ha ha ha !! pathetic !! you are indeed gay you fool !! China already screwed India big time and you Indians are still smarting from that grand butt fucking you got from China in 1962.From your post it is not difficult to tell that you Indians will go running to your white masters in the west for help in case of another butt fucking you could get from China,why?? bcoz you losers can’t even decisively defeat a much smaller enemy like pakistan and you dream of messing with China?? and india is already a screwed up shithole thats not even worth calling a 3rd world country,no point in screwing up india furthur,LOL!! IF THERES ANYONE HAVING FANTASIES OUT THERE,IT’S YOU INDIAN IDIOTS WITH YOUR GRAND CLAIMS OF OVERTAKING CHINA BY 2010,LOL!! YOUR NUKES ARE NOTHING BUT BIG FARTS,EVEN THE PAKIS ARE NOT TOO CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR PATHETIC NUKES.

October 2, 2006 @ 9:15 am | Comment

yeah look who’s talking , indians themselves live in the biggest shithole in the world called mother india and they have the audacity to call china a 3rd world crap,what does that make india? a 4th world cesspit.These indians are too fucked up to learn a lesson and face reality

October 2, 2006 @ 9:44 am | Comment

indians are big time white ass lickers

October 2, 2006 @ 9:51 am | Comment

Pakis and chinese both have sex with each other to produce islamist homosexual chinks hahaha! both will be fucked by Uncle Sam, already these pakis are restricted at evey checkpoint in the world – bloody terrorists!!

October 2, 2006 @ 9:38 pm | Comment

Chinese still have to evolve into a respectable human being from a primate, most of the time you can find (EDITED BY SITE MONITOR. BECAUSE SOME STUFF’S JUST TOO STUPID TO BE IN PRINT).

Ha Ha without whose help they will be starved to death. Try to respect your master fools who give you bread to eat!!
communist 3rd world trashpit thinking of ruling the world, stop dreaming and face reality, dickheads. Ha ha ha

October 2, 2006 @ 10:04 pm | Comment

bwahahahahahaha!! look who’s talking eh?


NO WONDER THE SERVICE FROM SHITTY INDIAN CALL CENTRES STINK LITERALY AND FIGURATIVELY.Most of the time indian call centers are busy indulding in credit card fraud.You should thank your white masters for being so foolish for providing you starving beggars with outsourced jobs where you can milk them thru fraud (“ETC.” EDITED BY SITE MONITOR. SEE ABOVE)

Wether or not China will become the leading power of the world is not for indian *** to decide.Indian **** should know that Chinese were also their masters amongst a host of other foreign masters bcoz indians are only good for being slaves to foreign masters.Unlike Indian ****,Chinese do not make up bullshit.Read the pathetic history of mother india and you will find that dozens of indian kingdoms including kashmir were under Chinese vassalage during the reign of the mighty Tang dynasty.

Which country is the biggest gutter of all has already been proven by a Dutch diplomat who mentioned india as a garbage dump and indians as pests.LOL!! HOW TRUE!!

Don’t be too sure your white masters are going to come to your rescue incase india is about to be royally fucked by China.Uncle Sam is too scared of even tiny North Korea so what to talk about Uncle Sam messing with China.Besides the white people’s societies are themselves in freefall.They cannot even handel the terrorists within their own borders nor prevent more from entering and screwing western societies into oblivion.

October 3, 2006 @ 9:54 am | Comment

Everyday we read stories about Chinese and Africans risking their lives on leaky boats to
sail on the shores of Western countries. Million of Chinese every year sell their belongings and bribe their way to western shores to get a refugee status, where they are kept in detention centres for many years and subjected to harrassment and humiliation which is beyond discription.

All this effort to escape brazen poverty
and pathetic standard of living in China. What corrupt Chinese dictators can give to their citizens is $2 a day and slave worker status in their sweatshops and no freedom whatsoever. This is the plight of 800 million Chinese who have no future. They even have to take a permit to decide upon sex of their will be newborn and ninenty nine percent choose to have male child- can you imagine where this country is heading towards.

Simply there is no comparison to rich, free, prosperous, clean and sanitised western society. The evil white men has conspired and has won again, he has shipped all the dirty, menial, pollution and toxic chemical generating, blue collared jobs to China, to further raise the standard of living of white society. He has converted the whole country into a slave factory and gas chamber- you can read about environmental disaster in China which is playing havoc with the normal life of common man.

China is still a 3rd world trashpit no matter what you say nobody wanted to be ruled or dictated terms by them once the wages increase in China these manufacturing jobs will go to Burma or Vietnam only to serve the cause of greedy white men- leaving China impoverish and poor, what it is now.

October 4, 2006 @ 10:12 am | Comment

yeah yeah sure sure!! It’s only shipoads of Chinese who risk all to come to the west eh? What about all those Indians who are caught trying to illegally enter any country just to escape shitty India? There are many many Chinese who migrate to the west legally then go back to China,reverse migration,life in the west is not as rosy as most like to think but no where will you see Indians voluntarily go back to India unless they are carried to the plane by immigration officials.

Nobody is comparing China to the West within present circumstances.This blog is about China vs India since Indians have an obsession with comparing their shitty country with China based on groundless arguments but before talking shit about China take a good look at shitty India first.Does it have a standard of living superior to China? China bashers keep talking about how much poverty there is in China blah blah blah blah but convieniently ignore the fact that China has a very effective anti poverty program that has been praised even by the UN.Upto 400 million poor Chinese have been lifted out of poverty and are now living a life with a decent standard,not as affluent as the western standard of living but nevertheless when compared to living standards in India it can easily be classified as much more prosperous.No other country on earth can boast of lifting that many people out of poverty.Add that to a bbc report stating that upto 1% of China’s population is being added to the middle class every year.But ofcourse one has to bear in mind that China has a colossal population and even these impressive achievements will take time to affect each and every citizen of China,hence there are still large pockets of poverty in China but no where in China will you find the level of absolute destitution that is abundantly visible in India.Since India cannot match China in any field,Indians love to boast about how ‘free’ and ‘democratic’ India is in comparision to ‘dictatorship’ China but I ask these questions: What is the use of democracy that fails to deliver the goods? What is the advantage of electing one set of crooks into power then make them step down and then again replace them with another set of crooks who are no better than the previous? People cast votes in order to bring to power leaders who can deliver the goods to the common folk.Just being able to put a piece of paper into a ballot box is not a divine gift in itself.The problem lies not with democracy or with authotarian rule,the problem lies with Indians themselves.Indians are selfish opportunists by nature and will put cast and clan loyalty before the common good.Unlike Chinese who can stand united,steadfast and resolute in the face of adversity,the average Indian will sit on their ass,bury their heads in their hands and cry HAI RAM!! HAI ALLAH!! etc. at the slighest discomfort and if India is so much freer and democratic i.e. better than China then why are there so many Indians working and living in China today? Do you see that many Chinese or any other nationality wanting to go and live in India?

Like I mentioned earlier,China has a massive population size and not all of it’s citizens have had the chance to experience the economic boom yet.So therefore all those illegal Chinese migrants who are caught trying to migrate illegally are usually from rural background and they have dreams of becoming rich in a short period of time if they reached the west,thanks largely to the perception of the rich west being portrayed by flashy hollywood movies and western ads.Only when these ignorant souls end up in some dingy hole in the west do they see the true face of the life awaiting them there.Then they yearn for home where they may have been poor as compared to western standards but better off as compared to a life of virtual slavery.

What the future holds for China we cannot accurately predict despite the impressive performance and achievements but I would like to tell these Indians that if it is China’s destiny to become the greatest superpower in recorded history,then there is nothing to stop China from heading in that direction no matter what other nations may endeavour or conspire to circumvent that.Instead of pointing fingers at China’s problems Solve your own many problems first which have been rendered insurmountable due to your own lack of sincerity.

October 5, 2006 @ 10:30 am | Comment


October 5, 2006 @ 10:54 am | Comment

Pakistan is a failed state, all pakis are terrorists,(EDITED BY SITE MONITOR)j

Bind laden is their God.

Unlike India and China who have the highest GDP per annum in the world, pakis negative GDP and PPP is due to terrorism Industry, illegal drug trade, illegal arms supply & prostitution Industry.

All western countries are researching on new technologies to develop:

a) Paki Filters at airports, railway stations, government offices, public places & parks etc
b) Paki mind readers and brain scans to scan the next bombing target and aircarft hijack.
c)Paki restrain alarms and automatic detection.
d)Paki removal bins to pack them and ship them in Talibinistan without having minimal loss to public property and innocent lives.

In no time Pakis will be bombed by Uncle sam
and will be wiped out from this planet. The day will be coming sooner than later!!


October 5, 2006 @ 9:40 pm | Comment

Why India Is Superior!!

Economically, China has a top-down model that has worked amazingly well to transform the country from the starving level where it was left by Mao Tze Tung to the developing level where it is now. But this model has relied mostly on cheap exports to the USA, the good old Far-Eastern model. Worse: it has been largely driven by government rather than by enterpreneurs, which means that China has not raised a generation of enterpreneurs that can take that model and extend it to a domestic market.

Exporting to the USA is a relatively easy business model: you simply list all the things that the USA buys, and then make them cheaper. Creating a domestic market is a much more difficult task, because it has to be self-sustaining. Japan went down the same avenue and, despite being a much more advanced capitalist society than China, is still largely dependent on exports to the USA, a fact that causes pneumonia every time the USA economy catches a flue. China, with one billion people and far less powerful companies, is even more vulnerable. One wonders what happens when the USA will force China to let its currency fluctuate (Chinese goods are so cheap because the currency is kept artifically low, something that benefits inflation in the USA but that won’t last forever). One wonders what happens when Chinese companies will have to compete free and fair with American, Japanese and European companies.

On the other hand, that is precisely what India has done. Government has merely enabled the transition to capitalism, that the transition has been carried out by thousands of big and small enterpreneurs, who had to develop skills to compete among themselves and with many other “offsourcing” destinations. India is one huge version of the Silicon Valley, with venture capital initially being supplied, directly or indirectly, by the USA but increasingly coming from inside India itself. India has also managed to capture skills in high technology that China can only dream of: by now, India has probably become the second software power in the world after the USA. Long-term, India’s economy is better prepared than China’s to compete worldwide. Its success depends less and less on cheap lavor, more and more on infrastructure, skills and, in general, competitivity.

Politically, it should be even more obvious that India has a great long-term advantage: it had 50 years to experiment with democracy, and it is now the largest democracy in the world, the largest of all times. Despite all the trouble with its Muslim minority and eastern separatists, India’s democracy has become more and more stable. Legitimate governments and the rule of law have the advantage that people complain about policy, not about the institutions themselves. On the contrary, China is still one of the most brutal totalitarian regimes in the world. Its minorities have been appeased by the sudden economic prosperity, but discontent is rampant both in the countryside and in the cities as poor masses have to sacrifice for the army (that still controls most of the business) and the corrupt elite of capitalists. The likelihood of a Soviet-style collapse is much greater in China than in India. As the capitalist economy creates a middle class (the thing that communists used to despise as bourgeoisie), the middle class demands more power, something that neither the old-fashioned communists nor the new capitalists are contemplating. Eventually, as Marx taught, this will lead to a class struggle and a revolution. (Right, Mao?)
Socially, the wealth gap is much bigger in China (that has already created billionaires, mostly corrupt government officials) than in India.

Demographically, India’s population is still growing, whereas China is experiencing the biggest slow-down in the entire world: the number of people of working age per every pensioner is projected to fall from 9:1 to 2.6:1 in the next 40 years. Its rapidly ageing population will soon become a major factor. Today, early retirement is a way for China to avoid unemployment. If China is forced to increase retirement age to 65 or even 70, millions of Chinese will be jobless (they already are, but right now they receive a pension, which basically works like an unemployment benefit). Western Europe and Japan have the same problem, but they got the problem after they got wealthy enough to solve the problem (at least for a while), whereas China will probably get the problem while it is still a poor country. China is getting older faster than it is getting richer.

China is expanding its sphere of influence, particularly through acquisition of strategic resources such as oil and raw minerals. But this sounds eerily similar to what Japan did in the 1980s, when it created an inflated demand for real estate and then bought real estate at overpriced values. China’s booming economy is creating inflated prices for oil and raw materials, which then China proceeds to purchase at these inflated prices. Japan learned the effect of buying in a bubble: when a slow-down occurs, the bubble bursts, and you are left with a net loss.

Last but not least, China’s growth relies on a stable Pacific environment and stable routes from the Pacific to its trading partners (Middle East, Africa and Latin America). Ironically, the peace that China needs is guaranteed by the USA, which China itself sees as a long-term competitor for supremacy…

On both economic and political grounds, India is a safer bet than China.

October 5, 2006 @ 10:32 pm | Comment

So when is that safe bet gonna pay off for India? All Indians can do is blah blah blah blah and show no tangible results to support all that rhetoric.900 million Indians are still in poverty and out of those 500 million are in dire straits,don’t say that there are no large number of Indian farmers who are commiting suicide due to abject poverty.Even those 200 million Indian middle class are mediocre at best.

Listen up rockstar!! Chinese were not born yesterday as not to know that complete dependance on FDI and overseas trade is highly detrimental in the long run.The main objective of the Chinese economic reforms is to build up the economy’s internal momentum in order to become self sustaining and this momentum is steadily and gradually maturing and Chinese have thousands of years of business acumen behind them so no need for any ill advice from under achieving yet over boastful Indians.There are many properous private businessmen in China today so to say that the Chinese govt. controls all the finances while the common citizen survives by doing jobs at sweatshops is a misperception.

Like I have mentioned before,India is in worse shape than the worst part of China yet Indians love to compare with China without redressing their own shortcomings first.You Indians have the mentality of a wretched beggar who sits on the streets begging for alms yet loves to pass comments against a labourer who toils day and night to earn his bread by saying “Look at guy,how poor he must be to work so hard doing menial jobs” .This is something for you Indians to ponder over and shut the f— up.

October 6, 2006 @ 9:54 am | Comment

so much arrogance for the country where 75% people are poor and struggling to make there ends meet. From starvation and begging to $2 a day sweatshop wage and slave worker status. If a white person show this much
arrogance then you brand him as racist and evil, what you call these Chinese people who are mutiliating the truth in their favour, by branding Indian as worse country on the planet and underachivers/beggers etc– Keep it up- you don’t want to see poverty and corruption in your own backyard- what you are boasting about is few skyscrapers and high ways in Shanghai and Beijing. No one in the world will ever get inspiration from either chinese dictatorship/brutality, corruption or cheap labour economy nor their primitive culture.

Indias plus points scores much above Chinese model as personal freedom do matter, working conditions are very important- few people wants to work in sweatshop with poor wages. Developing its own market, innovation and knowledge based economy is equally important
as selling cheap consumer goods to US. Its due to Indians shear hardwork and endurance
that they are the top outsourcing destination in the world for IT & BPO with 44% market share and self sufficient in agriculture, manufacturing and booming service sector.

In China the simple rule is you can’t getaway with poverty but you can get away with the poor- so dump all poor people where nobody will notice them- so you can present a rosy picture to foreign journalist- excellent.

Now it is obvious, even to the communists, that the parts of the Indian economy that are humming, such as drugs, auto parts and IT, are the ones that are most open and that this is no coincidence.

In 2003, a survey by the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry found that 40 percent of companies were “positive” on India as an investment destination; last year, that figure rose to 73 percent.

China’s hardware – in the form of bridges, roads, ports and the like – is incomparably better than India’s.

But in important ways, India’s economic software is superior. India’s banks report about 10 percent non-performing loans; China admits to 20 percent and the true figure could be double that.

India’s capital markets work the way they should; China’s are a rigged casino. India has more engineers and scientists; its domestic entrepreneurs have made a bigger mark.

And while no one in his right mind wants to go near the creaky, backlogged Indian civil courts, India is a country that does try to govern by the rule of law. China, ultimately, is a country that will break the rule of law whenever the party feels like it or deems its power to be threatened even if that “threat” is a few thousand poor peasants and their lawyer.

It is also worth noting that China’s one-child policy means that it will face the costs of a rapidly aging population much sooner than India.

Since 1992, when Deng Xiaoping decided to gun for growth, China’s economy has been running flat out. Over the same period, India’s has accelerated from a crawl to a brisk jog; in a good year, it can deliver 8 percent growth. But with the example of positive change behind it, plus a reasonable monsoon, it is not hard to imagine India growing at China-like speed.

It is at that point that its institutional strengths (a much richer civil society and a government that can be held accountable) give it a decided advantage.

At some point, a market economy requires a reasonably open and flexible political order. In China, that implies the end of the Communist Party’s monopoly of power, or at least the chance to challenge it without being imprisoned. China’s rulers are nowhere near countenancing that.

For all the advances in personal freedom in China over the past 15 years – and these have been enormous – the Communist Party’s clenched grip on power has not relaxed. It’s a whole lot less traumatic for a democratic country to open its economy, as India is doing, than for a dictatorship to open its politics, as China is not doing.

And that’s why, a generation or so down the line, it is India that is going to be the Asian tiger that everyone watches.

October 6, 2006 @ 11:20 pm | Comment

ha ha ha ha !! rathole india is going to be asian tiger yeah sure indians work hard at kissing white people’s ass that is why they send outsource white collar slave jobs to india to get it done for 1% of the cost in the west

October 8, 2006 @ 9:13 am | Comment

Pakis lives on Indian Land, all the land from Punjab to POK belong to India, it was evil white man conspiracy to devide India and form this terrorist failed state which lives on American charity. Pakis main source of
revenue is terrorism and donation from western countries as they have no legetimate industries of their own and whole area is under terrorist camps and outfits and evil madarsas.

This is discussion regarding countries not terrorists so please go and join some arab or Egyptian blog- economic discussions is not Pakis cup of tea.

October 8, 2006 @ 10:25 am | Comment

The Power Of Democracy and a wise step towards path of progress!

Investment of $320bn needed for roads, ports: PM
8 Oct, 2006 0135hrs IST TIMES NEWS NETWORK

NEW DELHI: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is persisting with his pro-reforms pitch. A day after resolving to take a fresh stab at politically sensitive labour reforms, while speaking at ET Awards function in Mumbai, Singh on Saturday vowed to undertake an ambitious infrastructure upgrade.

Blending firmness with candour, PM said it would be difficult to step up the growth rate to 9-10% without investing $320 billion in upgrading infrastructure in the next five years. “We will need to run hard just to stay where we are. Maintaining a growth rate of 8% would need continual improvements in our policy regime,” he told industry captains and policy makers at the infrastructure meet.

His recipe for improving the quality of roads, airports, railways and ports involved greater play for the private sector along with a strong regulatory set-up.

In fact, the conference saw several announcements from the ministries, indicating a new-found urgency to step on the reforms pedal just when government reaches the mid-point of its tenure. There is consensus that next 12-15 months are the last window to accelerate reforms before political considerations for the 2009 Lok Sabha elections take over.

As if taking a cue from the PM, civil aviation secretary Ajay Prasad promptly announced that the proposed Bill for setting up a regulator for airports would be brought in the winter session of Parliament.

Elaborating on the need for more investment flagged by Singh, finance minister P Chidamabram called for allowing private pension providers and further opening up of insurance to give the common man instruments that could help them park savings for the long term.

October 8, 2006 @ 11:20 am | Comment

You indians are indeed contemptable.75% poor and struggling in China eh? Why don’t you shed some light on India’s over 90% poverty stricken wretches first? Starvation,begging and slave labour are far more rampant in shining india than in China.This alone shows who is distorting facts.Before talking about a few skyscrapers and highways in China,you indians should take a good look at all the shanty towns and slums that make up the majority of India’s urban and suburban areas where mountains of garbage and filth are a common sight that would make cities in sub-saharan Africa look better.For validation from a neutral party,you can ask that Dutch diplomat who was summoned to the Indian foreign ministry for expressing his negative views about india.

Yeah that’s right everbody gets inspired by crap indian culture whose highest point is some stupid bollywood movie and the kamasutra.Very advanced and sophisticated culture indeed.While nobody notices or studies Chinese martial arts,traditional Chinese medicinal techinques that are increasingly being studied for feasibility alongside conventional medical science is also ignored eh? Feng Shui or the ancient Chinese practice of placement is also unknown in the west eh? (ask Paula Abdul) and these are just a few elements of ‘primitive’ Chinese culture that nobody notices.Keep up the bullshit indian fart boys!!

There are many slave labour camps in india that would make the ‘sweatshops’ of China look like a career jump.You indians can start boasting about your achievements when india starts sending outsourced jobs to other countries instead on relying on them for growth.India will go belly up if all those foreign clients pull out those outsourced jobs from india and send them elsewhere.More than 90% of the output from outsourced jobs to india including softwares is destined for foreign markets as indian domestic market is too pathetic to be of any significance.Don’t gloat at China,feel your own Achilles tendon first.

If indian capital markets are working the way they should be then good for india and also good for China as India will always be far behind China if India works the way it should,LOL!! What indian innovations are you talking about? What has india ever come up with that has impacted the world in any way? Where’s your proof that india has more scientists and engineers than China? Even if that highly dubious claim is correct then indian scientists and engineers have to be the biggest mediocre bunch around.Have they managed to create the world’s largest dam? Have they managed to make manned space flights a reality for india? Have they managed to successfully test the world’s first nuclear fusion reactor? All indians can do is try to follow up on what others do first then boast about how good they are at it and which of your entrepreneurs are making waves around the world? 99.99% of the shining india hype comes from indians themselves while China gets reviews from other nations without having to resort to hyperbolic boasting and self praise.

China is trying to slow down the speed of it’s economic expansion but still manages to generate double digit growth with ease while india is lucky if it manages to produce a single digit mark against an economy that is three times smaller than China’s.Only indian morons love to live in denial that the gap between the two countries has widened to a point where any talk about India surpassing China is nothing more than futile gibberish and the gap is still widening in China’s favour regardless of indians bogus claims of india’s many ‘advantages’ over China.As far as I recall this India will supass China nonsense is nearly a decade old but so far no such prediction has transpired in reality and by the looks of it the chances are less than remote except in the delusional minds of indians like rockstar and others like him who process jingoistic fantasies better than reality.Rockstar,stupid moron,who told you that the Chinese govt. or for that matter the Chinese nation hold anything about india or indians in awe? Chinese don’t consider indians worthy of their attention.On the other hand indians have a lunatic obsession with China and China’s progress.

If indian democracy is that strong then why was an italian born woman harassed into giving up the post of prime minister to which she was duely elected? Surely if indian democratic institutions are as sound as you indians like to claim then she would have been allowed to proceed in the capacity to which she was sent to by popular vote and her critics would have been made to respect that but instead it was the jealousy driven by insecurity of those critics whose only excuse was the lady in question’s foreign origins that prevailed.That only shows the hippocracy of your democracy.Don’t point fingers at others imperfections when you have ugly scars of your own.

No nation on earth is 100% perfect and China is no exception but atleast China has many achievements to it’s credit alongside it’s failures whereas india is like a leper that spites others for it’s own misfortunes.

October 8, 2006 @ 11:59 am | Comment

Fortune Magzine
August 31 2006: 7:09 AM EDT

NEW YORK (Fortune) — On behalf of thousands of peasants from his native village, Ma Wenlin, a self-taught lawyer in northern China, sued the local government in 1997 to recover taxes that had been illegally assessed.

His chances didn’t look too bad: Neighboring peasants had just won a similar case, a result that the Chinese press trumpeted as proof of the progress in the country’s legal system.

In Ma’s case, though, the courts refused even to hear the suit. Many of his clients were harassed and imprisoned for their presumption. When Ma persisted, going as far as petitioning the highest authorities in Beijing, he was arrested, taken into custody, beaten, and convicted of “disrupting social order.”

His sentence: five years jail.

Ma Wenlin’s story, told in Wild Grass: Three Stories of Change in Modern China by Ian Johnson, is first of all a specific human tragedy, both for him and for his overburdened clients, who scrape a mean living from the soil of the Loess Plateau, only to have their savings confiscated by corrupt, greedy and unaccountable officials.

But it also evokes a larger question: The impulses that animate the repression against the likes of Ma a comparative economic disadvantage for China and will lead to its fall.

Who cares about filthy China, today they make
$2 a day , in 10 years may be $3, and still be ruining the western countries with their mass illegal immigration on boats in which they specialise. But in 10 years those blue collared jobs will be shipped to Veitnam and Phillipines
only to leave them old and poor with no income as they would be too expensive on $2.75 a day maufacturing toilet paper and kitchen knives for their white masters.

Chinese can only steal technology as they are poor innovators in comparison to their Japanese masters, who were able to do some
modifications on western technologies to create markets for their products- but chinese are good for nothing, its good they are beaten up in their slave factories or put in the jails in western countries for crossing their borders. illegally.

October 8, 2006 @ 3:15 pm | Comment

Truth about Poverty and standard of living in In China.

YOU CAN SMELL THE garbage before you can see it. And you know you’re getting close when you spot the scavenging crows circling overhead. This giant refuse dump on the outskirts of Beijing would be close to a definition of hell on earth, but for the dozens of men and women who live and work in this wasteland, it is the source og livelyhood.

29-year-old Wei, who lives on the dump with his wife and two children. (Like many of the workers interviewed for this report, Wei asked to be identified by family name only.) About the size of four football fields.

They still do, first walking four kilometers from their homes in Yilong county to reach a main road. There they take a bus for 15 hours to the nearest big city, Chengdu, before embarking on a tiring two-day train journey across China. The entire trip costs $18 each, equivalent to almost four months of earnings back in the village. But the investment soon pays off. On average, a worker pockets about $48 a month at the dump – low by China’s urban standards, but a ransom compared with what they can earn scratching a living on the hilly terrain of household waste.

The single toilet is a wooden shack built over a ditch brimming with human waste and infested with rats that also roam the living quarters. Disease is a constant threat and with no doctors willing to visit the site, the workers have to fend for themselves. “We are united here. If someone falls ill, we will take care of him or her, no matter what,” says Fang, a woman in her 30s who accompanied her husband to Beijing.

When the sun goes down and the work is over, the scavengers wash themselves as best they can with soap and a basin of hot water. The men then crouch under dim light bulbs to repair radios or clocks found in the trash, while the women cook meals of meat and vegetables. “Everything that we eat, we buy,” says Li, the manager’s wife, who drives workers by truck to market every week. “Just because we pick garbage, it does not mean we eat it too,” she laughs.

Wei says food in Beijing is expensive, but at least it is fresh. In Yilong, his family slaughters three pigs each year. They are immediately cured and hung on the inside wall of their two-bedroom home to dry. Because there is hardly enough meat to go around, they eat almost everything, including the ears, skin and gullet. The ligaments and tendons are gnawed and swallowed.

In the evenings, the garbage dump rings with laughter and animated chatter, as the residents visit one another’s rooms – each of them reeking of garbage – to banter and chat. In the winter, when temperatures can plunge to -10_C, they huddle around fires fueled by discarded wooden furniture. The only telephone and television are in the manager’s room.

Ten or so children, ranging in age from one month to six years, live on the dump. They spend their days playing in the trash. Because of their migrant status, they are not entitled to attend local schools. That’s why Wei’s family gathered together their few belongings in April and returned home, after a year on the rubbish site. The couple plan to put their boy and girl into the village nursery school before Wei heads back to Beijing alone to find work. “I can’t let them grow up on the dump,” he says. “We now have enough money for them to study and live adequately back home.”

Wei’s village offers little for a family to survive on. “Here we have mountains and rivers, but not a cent,” he sighs as he carries his four-year-old son along a narrow, slippery path leading to their mud house. There is no telephone in the village. Not even a bicycle. Wei unpacks a talking clock that he salvaged from the dump and places it next to his lice-infested bed. The whole family is exhausted after three days’ traveling and quickly falls asleep. When they wake up, there is no heroes’ welcome from the villagers. The locals have seen too many people go, return and leave again. Hu Angang, a labor expert at the Chinese Academy of Science, estimates that 43 million rural workers roam Chinese cities looking for work, taking with them 20 million to 30 million spouses and children.

Wei’s home is virtually bare, without even pen and paper. But in the middle of the living room stands a coffin – waiting for the death of his healthy 71-year-old father. The family cannot afford to buy a casket, so they made one to assure the old man that when he dies, he will be properly buried. Within two days of their return, Wei and his wife are busy raking their plot of land. Every available patch is stuffed with rice, corn, potato, vegetables and wheat crops. The family eats most of the produce and the surplus is chiefly surrendered as tax. “Although the garbage job is dirty, I still prefer it because it is much freer,” Wei says. “Here, if we left the fields unattended for just a few days, the family would have nothing to eat.”

October 9, 2006 @ 10:02 am | Comment

“Who cares about filthy China, today they make
$2 a day , in 10 years may be $3, and still be ruining the western countries with their mass illegal immigration on boats in which they specialise. But in 10 years those blue collared jobs will be shipped to Veitnam and Phillipines
only to leave them old and poor with no income as they would be too expensive on $2.75 a day maufacturing toilet paper and kitchen knives for their white masters.” BY ROCK-IN-THE-HEAD-STAR



“Chinese can only steal technology as they are poor innovators in comparison to their Japanese masters, who were able to do some
modifications on western technologies to create markets for their products”


“but chinese are good for nothing, its good they are beaten up in their slave factories or put in the jails in western countries for crossing their borders. illegally.”


October 10, 2006 @ 3:26 am | Comment

all that crap posted by rockstar was probably compiled by some indians working for forbes and fortune,they are well known for their rabid anti-China ramblings.Can’t help laugh my ass off at rockstar pointing fingers at unhygenic conditions of the poor in China while not mentioning the conditions in that septic tank called india where people piss and squat in the open in full view of the public.Atleast the overwhelming majority of Chinese will work to earn their bread even if it is menial and hard work that pays little unlike indians who would rather resort to begging.

October 10, 2006 @ 5:00 am | Comment

Don’t talk about conditions in China when the best india can offer the world is that shantytown/beggar colony called SLUMBAI

October 10, 2006 @ 5:08 am | Comment

If bullshitting indians are rich enough to afford cable TV then they should have watched Discovery channel which dedicated a whole week,one to two hours a day program schedule covering China’s progress and also to be fair,some of China’s problems.Let’s see if Discovery considers shithole india worthy of such coverage.I’m sure jealous and insecure indians like rockstar and others like him must be pestering Discovery and other documentary channels to do a similar coverage on india.Yeah sure then maybe indians can show off how much indian toilets and gutters are better than the ones in China,as according to rockstar.LOL!!

October 10, 2006 @ 5:26 am | Comment

India’s diverse economy encompasses traditional village farming, modern agriculture, handicrafts, a wide range of modern industries, and a multitude of services. Services are the major source of economic growth, accounting for half of India’s output with less than one quarter of its labor force. About three-fifths of the work-force is in agriculture, leading the UPA government to articulate an economic reform program that includes developing basic infrastructure to improve the lives of the rural poor and boost economic performance. Government controls on foreign trade and investment have been reduced in some areas, but high tariffs (averaging 20% on non-agricultural items in 2004) and limits on foreign direct investment are still in place. The government in 2005 liberalized investment in the civil aviation, telecom, and construction sectors. Privatization of government-owned industries essentially came to a halt in 2005, and continues to generate political debate; continued social, political, and economic rigidities hold back needed initiatives. The economy has posted an average growth rate of more than 7% in the decade since 1994, reducing poverty by about 10 percentage points. India achieved 7.6% GDP growth in 2005, significantly expanding manufacturing. India is capitalizing on its large numbers of well-educated people skilled in the English language to become a major exporter of software services and software workers. Despite strong growth, the World Bank and others worry about the combined state and federal budget deficit, running at approximately 9% of GDP; government borrowing has kept interest rates high. Economic deregulation would help attract additional foreign capital and lower interest rates. The economy of India is the fourth largest in the world as measured by purchasing power parity. India is the second fastest growing major economy in the world.

This is what US the only superpower has to write about Indian economy we don’t need corrupt, brutal, illeterate, beggars to tell us that our economy is bad, everybody knows that you are the poorest and most backaward person on the world if you are born as Chinese. You get the lowest wages in the world, live in the garbage and no personal freedom on the top of that government pimps can even prison and kill you for voicing your protests and opinion. And you are not suppose to produce more than 1 child, pathetic. Unlike India which give dual citizenship to non resident Indians, chinese treat non-resident chinese as Aliens and they have to seek VISA to revisit China- who are the major source of income to corrupt Chinese.

In India you get better wages than China, we don’t cheat the world by artificially keping our currency low. You can protest, even sue the government and even vote them out of power if you are not satisfied with their performance.
Govt and leader are held accountable in India, Rajiv Gandhi and congress was voted out so the other parties for not looking after people interests- not like corrupt brutal regime in China. People voted BJP out and elected UPA govt in last election. Chinese are the biggest group of illegal immigrants, destroying western economies, it’s in world interest to curb chinese illegal immigration.

Why someone want to live in shithole China only if they own a sweatshop they send their personnel to work there. Like Tata’s, Satyam, Infosys, the Indian IT tech giants have set up shops to provide employment to low tech square head chinese, who start rubbing their bottom on ground for $1 each. It is Indian enterpeneurs who are responsible for India’s progress- not govt. LN Mittal the world 3rd richest steel tycoon is Indian he is not chinese. Reliance Industries own by Mukesh and Anil Ambani, is the top Corporate house in Asia and is not Chinese. Ajim Premji the world 6th richest man and owner of Wipro is Indian. Like this this there are thousand of Indian enterpreneurs working round the clock and are reponsible for India’s progress.

Q. Who is the co-founder of Sun Microsystems?
A. Vinod Khosla

Q. Who is the creator of Pentium chip (needs no introduction as 90% of the
today’s computers run on it)?
A. Vinod Dahm

Q. Who is the third richest man on the world?
A. According to the latest report on Fortune Magazine, it is LN Mittal

Q. Who is the founder and creator of Hotmail (Hotmail is world’s No.1 web
based email program)?
A. Sabeer Bhatia

Q. Who is the president of AT & T-Bell Labs (AT & T-Bell Labs is the creator
of program languages such as C, C++, Unix to name a few)?
A. Arun Netravalli

Q. Who is the GM of Hewlett Packard?
A. Rajiv Gupta

Q. Who is the new MTD (Microsoft Testing Director) of Windows 2000,
responsible to iron out all initial problems?
A. Sanjay Tejwrika

Q. Who are the Chief Executives of CitiBank, Mckensey & Stanchart?
A. Victor Menezes, Rajat Gupta, and Rana Talwar.

We Indians are the wealthiest among all ethnic groups in America, even
faring better than the whites and the natives.

There are 3.22 millions of Indians in USA (1.5% of population). ,

Albert Einstein said: We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made.

Mark Twain said: India is, the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. Our most valuable and most instructive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only.
French scholar Romain Rolland said: If there is one place on the face of earth where all the dreams of living men have found a home from the very earliest days when man began the dream of existence, it is India.

Hu Shih, former Ambassador of China to USA said: India conquered and dominated China culturally for 20 centuries without ever having to send a single soldier across her border.

Chinese are dreaming to rule the world, but Indian innovation, Enterpreneurs, development of tech & IT companies, Pharma and Auto sectors spoiling their evil ambitions, thats why they are grunting and making so much noise,

October 10, 2006 @ 9:03 am | Comment

Sure sure!! Indian beggars in america making bucks whats the big deal? america is supposed to be the land of opportunity ain’t it? Let’s see if all these smelly indians could repeat the same from scratch if they didn’t migrate from shithole india.

Chinese don’t have empty dreams of ruling the world like indian windbag rockstar and others like him who have already declared beggar colony india a superpower!! india provides better wages than China??? Then why are there so many smelly dothead indians coming to china to live and work and why are there no chinese going to live in garbage heap india? Smelly indians are the biggest group of illegal immigrants entering every corner of the world.
It is bullshit that indians are the wealthiest in america.That distinction belongs to the JEWS you moron.

Napolean Bonaparte said “When China wakes,the world will tremble” and right now it is shitty slave power india that is trembling that is why all indians are so fixated with the “india is better”,”india will surpass China” bullshit to make themselves feel better about themselves just like a drug addict who takes a daily dose of crack to escape reality and get high on make believe.India’s achievements are minor if not insignificant compared to China’s achievements.Even mamohan singh once mentioned that india needs to learn from china’s economic reforms and your pm happens to be your leading economist.

You ain’t the first indian windbag who has boasted about the indian origins of the decimal system.Taken that indians did indeed invent the system and according to you what Einstien said: How come india didn’t come up with any scientific breakthrough all this time? Do indians just rest on their laurels for having taught the world how to count? PATHETIC!!

hahahahahahaha!! I like that part about india having conquered China bullshit.Unlike boastful and inconsiderate indians,I am sure the Chinese ambassador was merely expressing himself in diplomatic language and didn’t mean it literally.Indian bullshitters even go to the ridiculous extent of claiming that by introducing buddhism into China,India gave civilization to China as if China didn’t already have a thriving civilization long before the birth of bhuddism.Indian losers also take credit for martial arts in China,now isn’t that ludicrous.

The blind faith that you indian slaves put in your white bhagwans in the west is laughable.You really think they will/can contain China so that india’s chances at becoming superpower become brighter? Whether you indian slaves believe it or not your white masters days as global overlords will be nearing an end sooner than you think.Even white americans and europeans are skeptical about the west’s continued position of leadership in the world.

China has been a massive superpower for most of it’s long history which reached it’s pinnacle during the days of the mighty Tang dynasty.If China reasserts itself globally again it should not come as a surprise regardless of indian’s and westerner’s mantra on democracy,freedom,human rights etc. On the other hand india has been a slave state or under foreign vassalage for the overwhelming majority of her history.Yet indians are acting like upstarts even before india has any true recognition by the world as a future power of any global importance.

October 10, 2006 @ 10:50 am | Comment

****Indian CEO Rules The World***

Indra nooyi CEO& Chariman PepsiCo Inc

Ken Bajaj CEO AppNet
P. Kaul CEO Hughes Network Systems (HNS)

Krishna Kushwaha Executive Vice President,
Research and Development cybercash

Sanju Bansal co-founder & COO MicroStrategy.

Rakesh Gangwal CEO US AirWays

Sanjay Kumar President and COO , computer associates

Ram Mukunda Chairman and CEO Startec

Reggie Aggarwal, Founder and CEO

Bijan Moaveni Chief Operating Officer eglobe

Pat Sheehy – SVP, Marketing, Sales and Production Freddie Mac

Srinija Srinivasan – cofounder and Vice President Yahoo.

Amar Bose – of the almighty Bose sound systems.

Victor Menezes, soon to be head of Citibank, currently head of global operations.

Jim Wadia – head of Arthur Andersen (yes, Indians head both McKinsey & Andersen).

did i already say 36% of NASA employees are Indians.

All word of praise from the enlightened human beings of the earth.

Hu Shih, former Ambassador of China to USA said:India conquered and dominated China culturally for 20 centuries without ever having to send a single soldier across her border.

“Many of the advances in the sciences
that we consider today to have been made in Europe were in fact made in India centuries ago.”

– Grant Duff
British Historian of India

“India was the motherland of our race
and Sanskrit the mother of Europe’s languages.India was the mother of our philosophy, of much of our mathematics, of the ideals embodied in christianity… of self-government and democracy.
In many ways, Mother India is the mother of us all.”
– Will Durant
– American Historian 1885-1981

-There are 3.22 Million Indians in America. 38% of Doctors in America are Indians. 12% of Scientists in America are Indians. 36% of NASA employees are Indians. 20% of MICROSOFT employees are Indians 28% of IBM employees are Indians 17% of INTEL employees are Indians 13% of XEROX employees are Indians

-First democracy to elect a woman Prime Minister.
India is the 7th nuclear power in the world
India is the 4th largest economy in the world
India is the largest democracy in the world

India is the 4th nation in the world to have developed/or developing a nuclear submarine
India is the 5th nation in the world to be in the multi billion dollar space commerce business.
India is the 4th nation in the world to develop(or nearly to) ICBM’s(can travel up to 14,000km)
India is the 3rd nation in the world, to be able to develop land based and sea based cruise missiles.


October 10, 2006 @ 12:35 pm | Comment

Indians this in America & Europe,Indians that in America & Europe.If Indians are all that f—— smart then how come they ain’t smart enough to make all that happen in India instead of going to America and Europe? Many many Chinese return to China to make their future while taking part in the building of their nation.I don’t see Indians doing that.Who says 1/3 of all NASA scientists and engineers are Indians? If true then maybe thats why NASA is getting so screwed up and is increasingly dependant on the Russians for majority of space flights and missions to the ISS.By the way there are more Chinese astronauts in NASA than Indians.

Left to themselves the Chinese managed to buildup prosperous world class societies like Singapore,Taiwan and Hong Kong.Have Indians managed to do that?

Name any European invention that was originally made in India as you claim.Incase you didn’t know,Chinese own part of IBM and all those indians work for the Chinese.

ha ha ha ha !! India is the mother of the white race? I’d like to see the look on Hitler’s face on hearing that.Indians are just begging the caucasians to make them their mini-me.LOL!!
The only similarity the whites share with Indians is the bigotry that defines your racist caste system.


October 12, 2006 @ 9:55 am | Comment

These Indian clowns always make a big noise about sweatshops and slave labour in China but conviniently avoid shedding light on the fact that India is the biggest source of child labour in the world where working conditions, pay and treatment of workers are far more appalling than the alleged sweatshops of China.The hippocracy of the so called biggest democracy in the world is all too evident.

October 14, 2006 @ 9:55 am | Comment

******East or West India is the Best*******

A Superpower in the Making?
The rise of this growing nation will change the balance of power in Asia—and potentially the world.

With nearly 1.1 billion inhabitants, India is the second largest country on earth in population, and seventh largest in geographical area, over 1.1 million square miles. This is almost 1,000 people for every square mile of area nationwide—much denser than even China.

Since achieving independence from British rule in 1947, it has seen its share of conflict, struggle and setbacks. Although India still faces many challenges, it is now poised to reach a higher position on the world scene than at any previous time.

The Indian economy has grown an average of around 6% annually over the past decade and 8% per year over the past three years—among the fastest rates in the world. It boasts an emerging middle class and increasing gross domestic product, exports, employment and foreign investment. This is complemented by a roaring stock market (index value up by a third in 2005 and by 200% since 2001), low external debt and large foreign exchange reserves.

Recent visits from leaders and officials from the United States, France, Germany and Russia have spotlighted India’s rise. These wealthier nations see India as a trading partner with enormous potential.

Although it has not yet matched the financial performance of China—currently the fastest-growing economy in the world—according to some analysts, India shows even more long-term potential for rapid growth. Leaders from both nations have discussed the creation of a Chinese-Indian common market based on the European Union model. Although only an idea at present, if realized, it would be the largest economic system in the world, home for about 2.5 billion consumers—almost 40% of the human race (or 3 of every 8 people on earth)!

India’s growth becomes more impressive in light of the fact that it is driven by a fraction of its population. Much of the nation remains a picture of rural poverty. Nearly all foreign investment in India goes to its six most urban states, with 22 other less developed states virtually ignored. This gap between city and country is keenly felt in places such as Gurgaon, a suburb of the Indian capital New Delhi: “In a land still plagued by deep poverty and backwardness, Gurgaon has become a renowned home of international call centers, business-processing operations, and information-technology firms. There are gleaming, glass-paned high-tech towers, condominium blocks, multiplexes, and shopping malls, where Indians dine at Ruby Tuesday, browse for Samsung electronics, or kick the tires at a Toyota, Ford, or Chevy dealer. If one overlooks the dusty pockets of poverty nearby, a few water buffaloes picking at garbage near shantytowns, the look is more Southern California office park than the India of yore” (U.S. News and World Report).

Despite the problems seen in India’s underdeveloped countryside—for example, massive unmet infrastructure needs; more illiterate citizens than any other single nation—there are several areas in which the nation excels. These particular specialized talents have allowed a tiny percentage of the populace—perhaps less than 1%—to spearhead its move toward a higher standing in the world order.

Intellectual Capital
India’s economy is divided between agriculture (which accounts for a quarter of the gross national product), manufacturing (constituting another quarter) and the high-tech service sector, which now makes up fully half of the gross national product. Striving to become a “knowledge superpower,” it hopes to skip the intermediate step of industrial development that has preceded other nations’ march into the Information Age.

Scientific and information technology companies from around the world are opening research and development labs in India—more than 100 in the past five years. One mainstay of the new economy is software development, with ever more global firms outsourcing to India the time-intensive work of programming. Businesses worldwide also rely on the country for customer service—phone calls from around the world are directed to call centers in Indian cities such as Bangalore. Other developing markets include pharmaceutical and biotechnology research. Currently, the majority of top American companies send some of their IT work to India, and there is little evidence of a slowdown in this trend.

The business world is also looking in India’s direction. Graduates of the nation’s business programs are in high demand among multinational corporations, with each graduating class commanding a higher average salary than the one before. Those who complete MBA degrees at schools such as the Indian Institute of Management can now expect starting salaries ranging from $75,000 (USD) at Indian firms to over $200,000 outside the country. This is comparable to graduates of top American business schools such as Harvard, Stanford and Dartmouth—testimony to the market value of Indian talent in this area of study.

Military Buildup
As its clout has grown, India has placed a high priority on improving its military capabilities as well.

New Delhi has not joined 187 other nations in signing the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT), and appeared on the world’s radar screen as a nuclear-armed nation in May 1998, with the detonation of five warheads in the desert near the border of Pakistan. This disturbed many governments around the globe, naturally including that of Pakistan, which responded with nuclear tests of its own.

This stand-off was the turning point that began India’s pursuit of a full-fledged nuclear weapons program. According to The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, additional nuclear missile tests occurred in the summer of 2004; since then, the Indian Defense Ministry has earmarked $2 billion annually to build 300 to 400 weapons over the next 5 to 7 years.

India maintains a “no first strike” nuclear policy, and asserts that it only seeks enough nuclear weaponry to effectively deter aggressors. U.S. President George W. Bush, during a March 2006 visit with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, announced cooperation between the two countries on civilian nuclear programs, and had previously called India a “responsible” nuclear nation (Der Spiegel). These measures drew an American diplomatic line between India and other nations that have nixed participation in the NPT, such as North Korea and Iran.

Whatever its nuclear aspirations, the country has a long military shopping list. Last year, it announced plans to build the first aircraft carrier ever put to sea by a developing nation, and to lease two nuclear submarines from Russia. America has openly discussed the sale of naval vessels, combat aircraft, patrol aircraft and helicopters to India. One former U.S. ambassador to India opined, “Of course we should sell advanced weaponry to India. The million-man Indian army actually fights, unlike the post-modern militaries of many of our European allies” (The Economist).

A Turning Point in Relations With China?
Many have compared India’s pattern of growth to its neighbor, China. The countries have much in common—physical borders, immense populations, similar challenges, ancient civilizations, and quickly-rising economies. India also measures itself against China, coveting its economic power and international standing, including its permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council.

Though a degree of tension does remain between the two nations, with lingering memories of the brief 1962 war in which China soundly defeated India, the relationship between these two Asian giants is warming up. Trade between them is now increasing at a vigorous pace, and diplomatic relations are at a post-1962 highpoint. Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao, during a recent visit to New Delhi, hailed cooperation between the two nations as the driving force of a new “Asian Century.” Indian Prime Minister Singh spoke of the potential for India and China to rearrange the world order by working together.

Many have pointed out that their economic strengths seem to be tailor-made for a partnership. India seeks to be a major player in the computer software world in the same way that China is in the area of hardware. Cooperation between Beijing and New Delhi could prove a dominant force in the information technology market.

Both nations have a voracious appetite for natural resources, and a recent energy deal neatly symbolized the new Sino-Indian dynamic: India acquired a 20% share in the development of the largest onshore oil field in Iran. The venture happens to be operated, and 50% owned, by Sinopec—China’s state-run oil company.

However, India could seek to undercut China’s manufacturing prices (as China did with many Southeast Asian countries in the 1990s). But it is more likely to pursue a different segment of the world market by producing higher-quality goods, as well as entirely different products.

Time will tell exactly how the relationship will mix competition and cooperation. These two nations both aspire to “first-world” status—and economic gains could be the incentive for a more tightly allied Asia.

Between East and West
With its newfound power, India faces a dilemma: Should it ultimately pursue closer ties with Western nations, or with other Asian countries?

After India gained independence, its first prime minister spoke of an Asian renaissance, envisioning a tightly bound continent changing the post-World War II landscape. Though premature at the time, the idea is now more feasible than any time since the Cold War era. Along with the improving relations with China, India is also friendly with Russia and Japan. And, as of 2004, the value of India’s trade with other Asian nations surpassed that of exchange with the United States and Western Europe put together (International Herald Tribune).

But the United States—after courting India’s arch-rival Pakistan as an ally in the war on terror after the September 11 attacks—is now distancing itself somewhat from the current Islamabad regime led by Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, focusing on India instead. India’s common ground with the U.S. includes liberal democratic government, capitalism and, among the more educated urban residents, the English language.

However, America’s courting of India is viewed by some as a way to limit and contain Chinese influence in Asia. Some Indians resent this perception of their nation as a pawn of the U.S. Though they appreciate the American lifestyle and culture, much of the Indian population still sees this lone superpower as a bully.

While it may be able to dance with both partners alternately for a while, India will eventually be forced to choose. Which way will this nation turn?

“Kings of the East”
We need not merely guess where world events will ultimately lead. While many of the details remain to be seen, the overall framework of the future has been recorded in advance in one book—the Holy Bible.

In nations such as India, the size of population alone pulls them toward superpower status. Bible prophecy describes global power blocs—superpowers, or groups of superpowers—that will be prominent at the end of the age, shortly before Jesus Christ returns.

These powers will be based in the north (Europe), the south (the Arab world), and the “kings of the East”—a group of Asian nations that will band together, eventually fielding a standing army of two hundred million (Rev. 16:12; 9:16; Dan. 11)!

The nations of the West, including the United States, are headed for hard times as a result of their national and personal sins against the God that inspired the Bible. He reveals that they will be forsaken by their allies, called “lovers” in Scripture:

“And when you are spoiled, what will you do? Though you clothe yourself with crimson, though you deck yourself with ornaments of gold, though you rend your face with painting, in vain shall you make yourself fair; your lovers will despise you, they will seek your life…All your lovers have forgotten you; they seek you not; for I have wounded you with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of your iniquity; because your sins were increased” (Jer. 4:30; 30:14).

India is today one of these “lovers,” but one that will soon prove to be something very different. So will other nations that Western countries now consider to be allies.

Keep watching India’s growth toward superpower status—just one part of the inevitable rise of Asia!

October 14, 2006 @ 5:03 pm | Comment

****Read this to know the truth- East or west India is the best***** on the same website.

October 14, 2006 @ 7:02 pm | Comment

Indians!! Gimme a break will ya!! Whats so specaticular about more anti-China/pro-India reports.There are a gazillions such articles on the internet alone even if they were written by whites who probably belong to the neo-con camp that is heading the western world today.This neo-con camp perceives China and not India as a direct challange or threat to their pre-emminent position in the not too distant future,China being communist and India being democratic has nothing to do with the imperilistic west’s agenda .The reason is simple: It is China that posses the mojo to become superpower in the true sense,not India.Apart from similar population size,the two nations share nothing in common.Buddhism which originated in India,flourishes in China and the Far East while it is totally extinct in the land of it’s birth today.

The west wants to use India’s surplus population as cheap cannon fodder in a possible future confrontation with China should China’s continous rise become unbearable for the neo-cons.The west knows it simply doesn’t posses the manpower nor the means to take down China on it’s own.The west tried but failed to take the 1950-53 Korean war into China when they realized that conventional military means was doomed to failure and even the nuke option could not fully take down a giant like China,in the process the west would have done irrepairable damage to itself should it have decided to cross the Yalu river into China.

I do not know about the preceptions and attitudes of each and every Indian towards China regarding a balanced view of who is going to surpass who to become superpower but the overwhelming majority of Indians who post in blogs such as this one remarkably share the same jingoistic arguments in favour of India.

There are even Indians who post comments proposing a joint Western-Japanese-Indian alliance to take down China militarily,LOL!! Very hilarious indeed to read such nonsense.

A fact that cannot escape attention is the Indian’s all envolping facination with the white blond blue eyed caucasian race and the intense desire of Indian’s to be ethnically associated with caucasians like it is going to be an infusion of blue blood into the veins of lowly Indian race.

A good deal of the time the ‘India will surpass China’ crowd use this ridiculous argument based on dubious ethnic kindredship with whites as one of the main reason’s for India’s possible rise as a superpower like becoming superpower required some kind of dynastic succession.LOL!!

October 15, 2006 @ 1:41 am | Comment

Oh good god. I don’t have time right now to go through all these comments, but this racist garbage and name-calling is juvenile. I’m tempted to close down the thread. Please keep your discussion civil, if any of you have a notion of what that means.

October 15, 2006 @ 2:00 am | Comment

Well, i cant resist the temptation of responding to Hip Hop. My 2 cents.

The article I posted had nothing to do with boastfulness, on the contrary it was the most honest comparison I have ever come across in current and historical context.

Lets not forget that both China and India are developing countries, one has found its place under the sun and the other is working hard for it.

I know China posseses mojo to become super power. But mojo should be where it should be and not in the head.

Not just India but all of the west and most of the world are worried about China’s rise. They have reasons to worry. China is not a democracy that means the decision making is restricted to a few hundred people. It has opened its economy (that makes everyone happy..including hip hop) apart from it everything else is closed. Whatever the world knows about China comes from what trickles out in media and blogs.

India should be worried about China. Underlying reasons.
1) Support for Pakistan bases terrorists and clandestine nuke program. Now we are hearing about China’s support of Iran (and hizbollah). Confirmed reports about China’s support to Osama Bin Laden in exchange for his non-meddling in Uighur insurgency. Hip, hop on and connect the dots..Pakistan, Iran, North Korea…ummm not an elegant company to be with given China’s status. I know all of this is to keep US busy but then there China’s and India’s interests diverge and West-India interest converge.

2) Encircling India (strings of pearl)

3) Support to Maoists insurgents in Nepal and Islamic fundamentalists in Bangladesh.

4) Support for Maoist and Naxal rebels in India.
and many more…

1) Cheap Chinese imports which is killing Indian medium and small scale industries, causing unemployment.
2) Artificially low currency.

Power does come from the barrel of gun as Mao said, but then China has to become responsible. Its behaving like a reckless angry country blaming the world(west) for all the hardships its people had to go through for centuries.

I dont want to sound like a racist here but then i sense some kind of a complex in all my interaction with Chinese people online.

India was and still is the Original Free World. We never closed our country by building walls. We fought invaders, won some lost some. We accepted the percecuted minorities with open arms, be it Jews or Parsis.

Your comment on Indians being an inferior race…well, atleast we donot descend from a Nomadic Mongol blood (remember Genghis?) Is that another reason for your complex hip hop? Mingling races was all part of invasion dude, no hard feelings.

As far as shithole India is concerned. Well, you see poor people on the streets here because they dont need a permit to enter a city of their own country. There are no pretentions…every thing is in your face, the poverty, the affulence, the hunger, the exhuberance. Like it or love it. We dont believe in creating walls, have and have nots. I love my shithole at least my country is not stonewalling the less fortunate.

I have interacted with many Chinese in Bangalore night clubs and they seemed to have a good time, on the streets, getting themselves cliked on Brigade Road.

That’s all the time I have now, have to go back to my 17th floor condo, sip wine and take and absorb the majestic view of Bangalore skyline looking back a decade ago when my dad spent half of his monthly earning on my education ($90).

We have light years to go before we become developed country but I am assured Im on the right ride.


October 16, 2006 @ 1:59 pm | Comment


Is it China that has attacked and invaded other countries on false pretext and behaves like a bully? China does not harbour any imperialistic designs.So what real reasons do India and the rest of the world have to worry about China’s rise apart from jealousy? The lack of western style democracy in China is just an excuse.

Who wants to encircle India? India is not that important.It is America that China is focused on.

What kind of complex do you sense in Chinese? FYI the mongol rule over China lasted for less than 100 years and the Han people who are the ethnic majority in China (more than 90%) have maintained their ethnic uniqueness for thousands of years till present times.Chinese are not descendants of mongols.The ethnic/racial similarity between Chinese and Mongols is just a coincidence.Ghengis Khan may not have invaded india himself (though he did come to india in pursuit of the son of kwarazm shah) but a descendant of his named Timur the Lame did and so did another descendant of Ghengis named Babur.So you see indians have mongol imprints added to the ones left by the kushans,huns,sakas,iranians,greeks,turks,dravidians etc. No hard feelings dude!! Historical facts!!

By the way China is not on the side of the jihadi fundo terrorists.

If indians think that india can develop into an economic powerhouse then good luck to you indians

October 17, 2006 @ 10:53 am | Comment

I am Iranian and I have this to say.This constant comparision of India with China is absolutely ridiculous.In Iran nobody believes India will ever become a superpower.India is too poor,underdeveloped,corrupt and overpopulated for that.All that hyped up glitz and glamour associated with India’s so called IT revolution is a sham because India’s IT works is nothing more than doing coding for foreign companies like microsoft for less than 10% of normal wages in the west.India has no large domestic consumption base and is mostly dependant on outsourcing from the west and neither is India setting any trend in innovation plus India’s infrastructure SUCKS.All in all India is just another corrupt,poverty ridden underveloped 3rd world state,just being a few notches better than third rate countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh doesn’t make India a superpower hopeful.I believe Indians are overstating India’s importance.On the other hand China is definately a contender for future superpower as China is the talk of the world today.Not just Iranians but people in many other countries share similar opinion about China’s rise to full superpower status within the first quarter of the 21st century.China’s many problems being highlighted in the western media are nothing in comparision to the many problems in India.India being a democracy is of no significance.Unlike India,Chinese leadership have excercised the will and determination to overcome their problems and succeed.


October 23, 2006 @ 4:23 am | Comment

Ali Mashadi you are stupid to underestimate india’s potential. India’s contribution to the world is immense whether it is vedic mathematics, invention of zero, to entertainment, spirituality,yoga, education,Information technology, education, arts, science and culture. If there was no poverty, population explosion, corruption and poor administration in India, India would had attained super power status 20 years ago, it is these problems which are the biggest threat to the country, much like the rouge islamic state like iran to US whose only contribution to the world is terrorism and primitive orthodox s barbarian lifestyle. Has any muslim country has ever invented anything, just go and look the history books.

October 25, 2006 @ 7:55 pm | Comment

India is a country beyond our imaging, we do not know we should be amusing or disgusting.

“Indian centry”, 7 years ago, we were cheerful entering the the new centure and thought 21st century is a wonderful century and belong to everyone in the world, stuning at the decalring by the Prime Minister of India that the century is going to be ‘Indian Century”, it seems that all others american, chinese, european and japanese etc have to depend indan for living in the new century.

it is rediculous at a low level chinese officer’s claiming that china is trying to become an developed country in year 2080, it is disgusting a high level indian officer claming that india will become a developed country in 2020, 60 year ahead of china.

“Indian shining”, it is a slogan by a indian prime minister.

“India can overtake china in 10 years” disgusting

October 27, 2006 @ 4:10 pm | Comment

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