Weekend thread

I would say “thank God it’s Friday” but every day is Friday when you’re not working.

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Richard Burger is the author of Behind the Red Door: Sex in China, an exploration of China's sexual revolution and its clash with traditional Chinese values.

The Discussion: 286 Comments

shulan,

i tried very hard to laugh, but failed.

is that a joke, anyway?

August 1, 2005 @ 7:48 am | Comment

Don’t you get it Bingfeng? There ain’t no German jokes. Nazis killed them all.

August 1, 2005 @ 7:57 am | Comment

Kevin,

May I ask you some question? If you do have influence in UN, would you campion to remove China from securuty council seat? Which countries that you would choose for security council? Based on what?

August 1, 2005 @ 8:24 am | Comment

I would vote for Cuba. They are also Communists but have the better dancing skills. Not to mention the Cigars.

August 1, 2005 @ 8:31 am | Comment

CUBA LIBRE!

August 1, 2005 @ 8:36 am | Comment

Shulan … here’s a “German” joke … even if Germans don’t find it funny. Unfortunately, it’s a little dated now.

You know the world is upside down when:
The best golfer is black
The best rapper is white
The French are accusing the Americans of arrogance
and … the Germans don’t want to go to war.

Boom boom.

August 1, 2005 @ 8:40 am | Comment

That’ s German one? Thought it was one of those which managed to sneak through customs.
Besides Germans love this joke.

August 1, 2005 @ 8:45 am | Comment

Shulan, I agree. Dancing skill is better criteria than cleanness, even better that money contribution.

August 1, 2005 @ 8:53 am | Comment

With regards to Bing’s comments, a long way above, about China-Vietnamese conflicts …

If Bing really means everything he says in that post, then he’s provided Japanese apologists with some pretty powerful arguments. After all, the 1931 invasion of NE China was certainly NOT ordered by the Japanese high command, either civil or military. It was more in the nature of an officers’ coup. The Japanese cabinet was simply unable to confront or restrain these hot-heads … and, as such, the worst you can accuse the Japanese of, collectively speaking, is being ineffectual.

Now, I don’t think the above argument works on all levels, but if Bing believes it is a valid excuse for numerous incidents of Chinese aggression against Vietnam, then I don’t see how he/she can fail to allow the same argument to stand in relation to Japanese aggression against China.

As for the “the Vietnamese provoked us” line … there undoubtedly were elements in Chinese society actively seeking to harm Japanese interests in the region. The specific bomb (Shenyang Incident) was certainly a Japanese plant, but nevertheless, the Japanese were facing Chinese opposition / hostility. Just take a look at any of the propaganda the Chinese communists were putting out at the time. Once again, I’m not sure how good this argument really is, but if you’re going to accept Bing’s arguments in relation to Vietnam, then you’ve got to apply the same standards equally.

Funny … I hadn’t realised that Bing thinks that the Japanese invasion of Manchuria is excusable. Strikes me, you can’t have one without the other.

August 1, 2005 @ 8:54 am | Comment

Why shouldn’t China remain on the UNSC?

I mean, with Sudan on the Human Rights Council, it obviously has the people’s interests in mind. Just like China.

BTW, How many tanks does it take to clear a square in Beijing?

Only a few if you keep backing up to run over the students.

August 1, 2005 @ 9:24 am | Comment

Whether China should remains in UNSC because of Tiananmen incident in1989, I believe it deserves consideration at times. At least it makes better sense than money contribution and cleanness. As whether China should remain on UNSC in the future, well, should we prevent German joining in UNSC now because of Holocaust?

August 1, 2005 @ 9:48 am | Comment

Not a fair comparison, LW. Germany has a new government; the party that instituted the Holocaust was wiped out. In China’s case, many of the same people involved in the TSM remain in power today. Germany denounced the Holocaust and payed huge reparations. If the CCP does the same, then I would say you are making aq fair comparison.

August 1, 2005 @ 9:53 am | Comment

Germany isn’t on the UNSC.

Nuff said.

August 1, 2005 @ 9:53 am | Comment

With the exception of the United States, most of the countries on the UNSC are victims of WWII.

hmmm…..

August 1, 2005 @ 9:54 am | Comment

What concernes dancing skills, Brasil would also be a good candidat. They even seem to dance while playing football.
What concerns Germany, well …
But please you Chinese and Americans let us in. We promise to behave. Mostly.

August 1, 2005 @ 10:32 am | Comment

What concernes dancing skills, Brasil would also be a good candidat. They even seem to dance while playing football.
What concerns Germany, well …
But please you Chinese and Americans let us in. We promise to behave. Mostly.

Okay, where the hell is Brasil and what the hell is a good candidat?

August 1, 2005 @ 10:43 am | Comment

I don’t think that China has any objection for Germany to join UNSC. As for US, they might not object Germany joining UNSC. But they will think that Germany is too independent now. They know that they can always count on Japan to vote the same way as US on issues such as Iraq, but Germany? Did they just recently voice disagreement of the invasion of Iraq?

August 1, 2005 @ 11:10 am | Comment

Ähm, what about Brazil and good candidate?
And football is the game where all except two players are not allowed to touch the ball with their hands.

August 1, 2005 @ 11:35 am | Comment

Filthy Stinking No.9

You could argue in any case because you could always drop the context that couldn’t suit your purpose.

Feel free to play with your own version of my comment.

August 1, 2005 @ 11:36 am | Comment

“看不到”? “看不见”?

Martyn, 我还希望你送给我这篇文章。

Okay, that’s enough of my demonstrating my ignorance.

August 1, 2005 @ 11:37 am | Comment

seeing as it’s PLA day today let me throw in this hypothesis about the China vs Vietnam war. I read it in a book, forgotten which one. It says: maybe Deng knew that the PLA was weak and needed reform but he needed to persuade the PLA leadership of this … and didn’t have enough clout to actually order them to shake up the army and improve it.
the attack on vietnam, despite all the Chinese causalties, scared the vietnamese; China could say it to the world and its people that it penetrated Vietnam to prove a point and then withdrew of its own accord; and Deng could go to the PLA leaders and say if you lost so many people carrying out this attack, you must be pretty useless, so you should reform.
based just on the little I know about Deng this sounds very much in character. but I don’t know if the hypothesis is based on anything very substantial.

August 1, 2005 @ 11:53 am | Comment

I heart Bolton

Speaking of the death penalty, the adorable Islamic Republic of Iran administered it to two men for being homosexuals.

The moral character of the US should occasionally be considered by the enemies they keep..

August 1, 2005 @ 12:04 pm | Comment

as for the discussion about the UN security council, my belief is that it’s important some countries have a veto — otherwise the UN would fall apart.
it would otherwise fall apart because if, say, a 66% majority was required to put a resolution through, people would be constantly pissing each other off: some countries would be on the losing side of votes most of the time and walk out of the UN as a result.
so some countries must have a veto. but if too many countries have a veto then the impact and import of a veto is diluted, everybody starts bandying them around or threatening to use them just for revenge.
so you limit the veto to, say, 5 countries.
now yes it’s tough if, because of the way things are, you’re one of the majority of countries that doesn’t have a veto.
but life isn’t fair and instead you must rely on what every diplomatic effort in the world relies upon which is cultivating friends and alliances.
so if enough small countries want something blocked they can lobby a UNSC permanent member to threaten a veto. a large non-UNSC country can lobby an ally or friend independently.
and so you have a system which lurches and jolts and judders along, admittedly, but which most countries belong to and in practise — if not in principle — accept.

August 1, 2005 @ 12:08 pm | Comment

And you know something, Johnny? What we just saw in Iran will soon become business as usual in its twin sister Iraq. We will give them the tools to choose their own government, and they will almost certainly choose a theocracy that is hostile to women, eliminationist toward Israel and Jews and gays, anti-USA and downright dangerous. That to me is the ultimate folly of our dirty little war. Even the “victory” (i.e., freedom and democracy) will end up hurting us. It’s a pure lose-lose situation, and we should have known it before we got stuck.

August 1, 2005 @ 12:13 pm | Comment

and reasons why the current 5 are good:

the US: big country; most powerful; got nukes; very large sphere of influence and intent to use that influence.

Russia: big country; got nukes; large sphere of influence and desire to use that influence.

China: big country; got nukes; growing sphere of influence and willingness to take the lead in its region.

France: big ego; got nukes; reasonable sphere of influence in Europe and Africa; it’s always good to have a contrarian on board.

Britain: *Great* Britain; got a few nukes; all-round good eggs who can be relied upon to beat the French and help the Americans understand what it takes to run the world.

August 1, 2005 @ 12:20 pm | Comment

doubtless this thread is shortly closing and my considered opinions shall shortly be consigned to the big Peking Duck in the sky, so let me roar out in partriotic fervour:

WHEN Britain first at Heaven’s command
Arose from out the azure main,
This was the charter of her land,
And guardian angels sung the strain:

August 1, 2005 @ 12:25 pm | Comment

Thread won’t close until this afternoon, at least another couple of hours…but it’s definitely on its last leg.

August 1, 2005 @ 12:30 pm | Comment

Part of an Alleged Prose in North Korean Primary School Textbook:

Granddad King (Kim Jong Il) spoke to Young Pioneers sincerely: “The people of America and Europe, long for basking in the shine of Juche (principal) Idea. However, big capitalists forbid them from learning Juche Idea. They can only read newspapers to know the great achievement of North Korea in Juche Idea. The world is yours and you should be diligent in studies to give the people in America and Europe a chance to learn freely the Juche Idea as soon as possible.”

Granddad King apologised to Young Pioneers: “I was too busy in work this month because the world peace relies on us. How could we abandon the people of other countries? Bush, the chief capitalist of America, resorted to us for support to continue suppressing American people. How could we agree? But Bush, the chief capitalist still got aid from the Japanese Imperial Henchman and once again suppressed the uprising led by Kerry. Having committed such atrocity, Bush and his cronies will not be forgiven by the people all over the world.”

August 1, 2005 @ 12:37 pm | Comment

Don’t know if it’s true or not.

Just for fun, translated two paragraphs from Chinese.

August 1, 2005 @ 12:39 pm | Comment

but you know, Japan and North Korea are good friends too:
Pyongyang, July 29 (KCNA) — Leader Kim Jong Il was presented with a floral basket by the first Japanese delegation for the study of the Juche idea on a visit to the DPRK. It was handed to an official concerned by Yoshio Suzuki, president of the Hokkaido Society for the Study of Kim Jong Il Works, who is leading the delegation.

August 1, 2005 @ 12:43 pm | Comment

“But they will think that Germany is too independent now. They know that they can always count on Japan to vote the same way as US on issues such as Iraq.”

So, you think Japan is sincere with Uncle Sam? Lol. One month after the US backing of UNSC seat is proven useless, Japan slapped trade sanctions on US.

“The Japanese government has decided that there is a need to more effectively pressure the US by implementing retaliatory measures and promoting the repeal of the amendment,” said Trade Minister Shoichi Nakagawa.

“Our country decided today to launch a countermeasure from 1 September over the Byrd Amendment.”

Japan will place levies on US steel products such as ball bearings and airplane parts, and the cost of the action could run to as much as 5.7bn yen (£29m; $51m), the trade ministry said.

Lol, again.

August 1, 2005 @ 1:26 pm | Comment

freedom: imposing such trade sanctions doesn’t mean Japan would vote against the US on something like Iraq. britain almost got into a minor trade war with the US a year or two ago, and look what Britain did in Iraq!

August 1, 2005 @ 1:34 pm | Comment

.. so no need to “lo” quite so “l” !

August 1, 2005 @ 1:39 pm | Comment

WHEN Britain first at Heaven’s command
Arose from out the azure main,
This was the charter of her land,
And guardian angels sung the strain:

No Goal

August 1, 2005 @ 2:47 pm | Comment

shulan doesn’t “think it’s all over .. IT IS NOW!!!”
I liked your bomb dialogue however. but I don’t think you give enough credit to the Russian linesman who made it all possible.

August 1, 2005 @ 4:23 pm | Comment

It was only a matter of time — now I’m closing this bloated thread. A new one has been opened above. (New threads are usually started in the late afternoon, Mountain time.)

August 1, 2005 @ 4:35 pm | Comment

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