Thank you sir, may I have another?

A new thread.

The Discussion: 140 Comments

my goodness, more than 100 posts on poisoned food?
Don’t worry too much about it.
Yes, you have to be cautious in China but don’t be scaried. Nowadays, most of fish sold in the market are raised in the man-made ponds instead of polluted rivers. (You can’t even find fish anymore in the most of cases, and you can taste the difference because of the existence of toxins. The vendors of poisoned fish will lose their bussiness too. However I still found sometimes fish got a smell of paint, then I immediately threw out the whole dish, however, this has happened less than 3 times in many years)
Veggies should be put into the fresh tap water for an hour or so before you start washing them. (in case some peasant don’t follow the instrutions)
Chicken pork etc… mostly come from the big slaught house, it’s not easy to find any naturally-fed animals noadays anymore. Mostly tap water should be safe if not drinkable. That’s all.

July 20, 2005 @ 8:37 pm | Comment

i have a great idea to elevate chinese life expectancy from 71 to 75 in just one year – eat KFC instead of chinese foods

July 20, 2005 @ 8:51 pm | Comment

It looks like my Eating in China thread, which I expected to get a comment or two, is drawing all the attention tonight. So I’m about to lose face and hide out in my room. My open thread – a barren wasteland!

July 20, 2005 @ 9:03 pm | Comment

From the looks of ALL the FULL KFC’s in China. They are quick learners.Eat KFC live rong time!

July 20, 2005 @ 9:15 pm | Comment

Richard, never,ever,under any circumstances look in the mirror.

July 20, 2005 @ 9:16 pm | Comment

As a favor to Richard and his face, I will change topics. What is the difference between a polyp and a cyst? And do you think Ivan will still think I’m attractive if I have some on my winky?

July 20, 2005 @ 9:36 pm | Comment

Am I the only guy find Chineee condoms too small???

July 20, 2005 @ 9:42 pm | Comment

You aren’t really Chinese then are you?

July 20, 2005 @ 9:44 pm | Comment

bingfeng,don’t be silly, confucion said eat KFC you will have constipation, grow painful cyps in your collon and die with hymrod in a young age.

July 20, 2005 @ 9:49 pm | Comment

As for the food, I tend to think renxu and will are rational, at least I tend to follow that course myself.

As for ancient chinese wise man. I once heard a WWII story that I enjoyed. Winston Churchill was in the United States conferring with FDR about the war effort. Toward the end of the meeting, FDR told Winston that he had a request from Stalin. Stalin wanted in the next shipment of goods to the Soviet Union to include some quantity of condoms. The condoms had to be a minimum length of 15 inches. FDR asked Winston if he thought Stalin’s request was based on the physical dimension of Russian men. Winston replied that he did not know, but he suggested FDR comply with the request, just lable them Texas small.

July 20, 2005 @ 9:56 pm | Comment

Richard, and I say this with love, quit yer bitching. You get more comments in two days of open threads than most of us get in months (not including spam and troll-droppings). No need to seek further approval. We like you. Honest. But sometimes the actual posts are more interesting. After all, how far can we take polyps, cysts and condom size?

July 20, 2005 @ 9:57 pm | Comment

Fair enough, Will. (And you know I’m kidding, right?)

July 20, 2005 @ 10:00 pm | Comment

JFS, that’s a variation on the original joke as I’ve heard it: Towards the end of the war, at the Yalta conference, Stalin urgently requests the US to provide a shipment of condoms for his hard fightin’ troops. Roosevent agrees, but tells his aide, “Make them 12 inches long, and on one side print an American flag, and on the other, ‘small'”.

July 20, 2005 @ 10:00 pm | Comment

Richard: Yeah I know. And you know I’m kidding when I tell you to quit yer bitching, right? (Although it’s true about the comments.) After all, I wouldn’t be commenting liberally myself if I was actually annoyed.

July 20, 2005 @ 10:01 pm | Comment

JFS, I too ate all the food and drank the beer when I was there. I ate fish nmore than anything else. It just seemed an interesting point that Bing raised.

July 20, 2005 @ 10:01 pm | Comment

And AM, you are definitely in a class by yourself.

July 20, 2005 @ 10:02 pm | Comment

Cool, Will. Now get me a high-paying PR job in China, okay?

(Kidding again; I think I’ve had my fill of PR in China. Time to teach.)

July 20, 2005 @ 10:04 pm | Comment

High paying? PR? Dude, you have been gone a while. But let me know when you’re in Beijing and I’ll at least get you a medium-quality, formaldehyde-free beer.

July 20, 2005 @ 10:13 pm | Comment

I love Yanjing beer. I always ask for extra formaldehyde. Seriously, I’ll be popping over around August 28 or 29. I’d definitely like to meet up.

July 20, 2005 @ 10:19 pm | Comment

Yanjing is what makes Beijing summers tolerable. Well, Yanjing and a fine, salty plate of 羊肉串。

I’ll be here. I sent you my contact info offline once before, but not sure if you got it. Will send again if needs be.

July 20, 2005 @ 10:22 pm | Comment

KFC is only a stop-gap solution. Soon all the chickens will be dead of bird flu.

July 20, 2005 @ 10:25 pm | Comment

I have it, thanks Will (am woefully behind on my email replies; apologies).

July 20, 2005 @ 10:28 pm | Comment

Thanks for that link COnrad. I love this quote:

“It is a matter of urgency,” said Julie Hall, coordinator of communicable diseases in WHO’s China office. “It is an outbreak of potential international importance. We’re looking for China to share the information as quickly as possible and as much as possible.”

Is she serious? Share information? When will we ever learn? Does anyone remember the SARS cover-up, the AIDS cover-up and this year’s attempt to cover up cases of bird flu? Is it really that difficult to understand how China responds to health emergencies?

July 20, 2005 @ 10:31 pm | Comment

But Richard, mainland officials assure us that the outbreak has been contained, so there’s clearly nothing to worry about.

July 20, 2005 @ 10:37 pm | Comment

Richard, rules of thumb, condoms condoms condoms, to avode contacting social deseases in China, just carry lotsa condoms, you’ll be fine!!!

July 20, 2005 @ 10:38 pm | Comment

There’s always Kentucky-fried dog, civet cat, etc. Everything pretty much tastes the same out of the deep frier (if the wierd selection of deep-fried insects I’ve eaten here is any indication).

Per bird flu: The US is stockpiling two million doses for “essential personnel”.

People are taking this seriously (although Indonesian cases are cited here).

My father, a UCSF epidemiologist for the past thirty years, just spent a week here in Beijing doing some work (AIDS stuff, speaking of China’s poor communication record). He says that people are putting a brave face on the bird-flu issue, but behind-the-scenes most of the health bureaucracies are bugging completely.

Of course, he and I just spent the weekend at the crane preserve at Zhalong, near Qiqihaer, in Heilongjiang, so you may not want to come to close to me, Richard.

July 20, 2005 @ 10:39 pm | Comment

Richard, in response to Fat Cat’s comments in the food scare thread, you responded that they (the farmers) are fighting for their lives. That may be just a wee bit melodramatic.

You and Fat Cat may be correct, but I am somewhat skeptical. To put it in the context as I see it, we have a mass movement here (mob action). We have here a bunch of people (farmers in this case), and they all have their own particular reason for being in this action, and many of them will be in there as you suggest. Because the company is polluting their fields, whether the company is polluting or not is irrelevant to them, they believe it is so. It is the ringleaders that I think it is more relevant. From reading some articles about this incident, it appears that the wife of one of the ringleaders told how their fields production has declined and her husband is very sick. He was not too sick to lead the crowd in attempting to take over the company, though. His requirements is compensation for his lost income from farming and for his sickness. Although he promotes the company moving, he is prepared for them to stay, as long as he is compensated.

Again, you may be right, but I am not convinced.

July 20, 2005 @ 10:51 pm | Comment

But Richard, mainland officials assure us that the outbreak has been contained, so there’s clearly nothing to worry about.
Posted by Conrad

That’s a bit more bankable than Karl Rove telling the FBI under oath that he didn’t have conversation with that reporter.

July 20, 2005 @ 11:01 pm | Comment

To say that farmers threatened by pollution who riot can’t really be that threatened because otherwise they’d be too sick top riot — sorry, that’s rather odd reasoning. I read a hundred articles on China a day, but I’ve never heard anyone but you, JFS, put forth this theory that the farmers are just trying to hawk for money — I haven’t heard it from those who side with the CCP, or those who side with the farmers. Is there a source or is it just a hunch? Having seen how a lot of these farmers live and the crap they have to put up with, I’m extremely skeptical that they suddenly decided to stage mass riots in the hopes that the government will reward them for their efforts with money. Does this mean the CCP will simply shower cash on those who stand up and fight them? Again, I need a little more proof. NPR did a story on this today and interviewed a professor from HK about the rioters, and this never came up even as a possibility. Not anywhere. I am willing to believe it once I see even a hint of documentation or an article about how these farmers are just money-grubbing leeches. I am afraid that until then I simply can’t buy it, not on hearsay.

July 20, 2005 @ 11:12 pm | Comment

Thank you Richard for your comment. As usual, you are a very fair referee. JFS, you are probably right about some farmers wanting to seek compensation. Who wouldnโ€™t if your property and livelihood have been ruined due to the fault or lack of consideration of a third party? Farmers in the US and in Australia will go nuts and will definitely sue if someone pours toxic substance into their fields. So the crux of the problem here is not whether or not the farmers are greedy. But rather, whether there is a proper avenue for grievance resolution, should there be a complaint brought forward by the farmers. The lack of legal and legitimate means for farmers to pursue their complaint, to prove their cases and seek compensation, in my opinion, triggered the riot.

July 21, 2005 @ 12:00 am | Comment

Richard, I cannot speak about rioters in general or riots in general. There may or may not be a common thread, but I suspect each specific riot now is locally based on specific issues.

My remarks are concerning this specific riot. And you are correct, this is just my thinking. The hundreds of articles and NPR you reference may be right, but then many of them just parrot one another.

Farmers as a category is composed of a rather wide range of individuals under different circumstances. I do not work in the agricultural sector, but I do have some acquaintances with some farmers. There are some farmers who do quite well, there are some farmers who do so so, and there are a lot of farmers who do very poorly (remember, 40% of the population is engaged in rural activities that produce one percent of the gross domesticate income, that is not a lot to go around).

One observation that I have made, whether it is accurate or not I do not know, is that nation states are most vulnerable when they move from being poor to being rich. This was the case with the French (French revolution), the Russians, the Italians, the Chinese, the Japanese, etc. The Americans were fortunate, there was a lot of cheap land that took a lot of the people that would have caused problems and put them to work with hope. Most other countries do not have that option.

I realize that compared to North America, China appears extremely polluted. But it is not a cesspool. contra the environmental propaganda, undeveloped societies are very polluted and unsanitary. It is that change from traditional society to modern technology that produces less pollution and more sanitary conditions. It is not the pollution that is the problem, most Chinese were living in more polluted condition just 40 years ago.

If I am the only one that has observed what I have said, then that does not make me right, it does not make me wrong, it just makes my observation or thinking singular, at least for the present.

July 21, 2005 @ 12:05 am | Comment

Mc and KFC eaters
My children, one in UK and the other in the States, in their 30s, say the chiken in both business is more additives than real chicken and won’t eat at those places. I stop going to them in China about 5 years ago.

I am wary of and don’t eat fish and shell fish, which I don’t like much anyway. Mostly I cook at home, but will eat la jiao cooked food. I figure that stuff will make it ok, ah well just kidding. At my age something is going to get me , so I eat what I like.

The Three Gorges Project web site had a long, Chinese person’s article about a dam that ruin at lot of farm land and the aftermath. There is precedent for the current riots and takeovers. This story is from 30 years ago. The main catalyst was the promise of compensation for the land and lost income that was not honored or the compensation was stolen before it got to the peasants. Several times in the 10 or so year history of the dispute the locals took over the power house. A good read for the history of local self-help against the system.

July 21, 2005 @ 12:25 am | Comment


You’re both forgetting that bird flu is a state secret and any such research will be dismissed as unapproved:

July 21, 2005 @ 12:54 am | Comment


The fact that bird flu is a state secret is itself a state secret. Besides, there isn’t any.

July 21, 2005 @ 1:25 am | Comment

Simon’s link to the New Scientist reveals a fairly short article which is definitely worth pasting here IMO:
China denies bird flu research findings

In the spirit of the 1930s Soviet biologist Trofim Lysenko, China is ignoring science it finds inconvenient. The head of the ministry of agriculture’s veterinary bureau, Jia Youling, has rejected research on bird flu published in the journal Nature last week by Yi Guan and his colleagues at the universities of Hong Kong and Shantou.

The paper concluded from genetic analysis that the H5N1 bird flu killing migratory birds at Qinghai Lake in north-west China had come from southern China. An independent team in Beijing reported similar findings. Chinese officials had claimed that the virus came from another country. Last week Jia told the official Xinhua news service that Guan’s paper “made the wrong conclusion” and “lacks credibility” because birds do not fly to Qinghai from southern China – even though this is a well-known migratory route.

Ominously, Jia added that Guan’s group did not even go to Qinghai or have permission to do the research, and that his lab does not meet safety standards. Yet Guan’s BSL3 lab complies with international standards, and his team collected samples from Qinghai before the government introduced rules last month saying no one could study dead animals or bird flu, or even report an outbreak of animal disease, without permission. “They are trying to close everyone’s lab,” Guan told reporters.

July 21, 2005 @ 1:29 am | Comment

From today’s SCMP: (exerpt)

Chevron lifts Unocal offer 5pc

Latest US$17.1b bid still short of CNOOC’s but politics driven by conservative fears swings the balance in favour of US firm

Chevron yesterday increased its takeover bid for Unocal by 5 per cent, raising the stakes in the battle for control of the ninth-largest oil company in the US.

Under pressure to match an US$18.50 all-cash offer for Unocal from rival CNOOC, Chevron revised its bid to include more cash and less stock, raising its value to US$17.1 billion, or US$63 per share based on Tuesday’s stock price.

Unocal’s board has already approved Chevron’s new offer. The two companies issued a joint statement yesterday in which Unocal reiterated its recommendation that Unocal stockholders “vote in favour of adopting the Chevron merger agreement, as amended, at the special meeting of stockholders scheduled for August 10”.

Nonetheless, a Unocal spokesperson confirmed “the board continues to evaluate the CNOOC bid”. Whether CNOOC issues a counter-bid is unclear.

July 21, 2005 @ 1:35 am | Comment

The article ends by saying that the CNOOC team said chances of success were now “significantly diminished”.

The fat lady hasn’t sung yet but it looks like the writing’s on the wall. Good news pete? I remember you arguing against it.

July 21, 2005 @ 1:38 am | Comment

The writing was on the wall about three seconds after CNOOC made it’s announcement. How wonderful for all those Unocal shareholders who will be poked for a buck forty a share. Well, I guess they get their cash quicker if they don’t have to wae through CFIUS approval.

On bird flu: They never learn. They never freakin’ learn. And then they wonder why the rest of the world doesn’t trust ’em any further than they can throw them.

I’ll tell you, it’s the one thing that worries me about living here. There’s no part of Beijing I won’t walk in after dark. I don’t obsess about the food. I don’t obsess about the air. I find the Chinese friendly and engaging, on the whole. But the government here are incompetent, hamfisted f*ckwits when it comes to disease handling. (Chinese readers, argue with me if you want, but the track record is bad – SARS, the Hebei AIDS scandal, and now this.)

I love living here, but the bird flu thing is for real. (Perhaps we should refer to it as “burd flu” from now on to avoid being auto-censored for discussing forbidden topics.) If it ever does mutate into a human-transmissible variant –and that seems likely in the long term– I guess the government will see to it that we don’t know until people are collapsing in duck farms outside of Beijing and there are runs on the supermarkets.

It’ll make SARS look like the winter sniffles. If I had small children or aged parents in China this sort of opaque, Stalinist behavior would make my hair stand on end.

-end of rant-

July 21, 2005 @ 2:16 am | Comment

Martyn – do you have a blog?

July 21, 2005 @ 2:18 am | Comment

As a holder of Unocal stock, I’m inclined to favor the Chevron bid because (1) there is less risk that it will fall through and (2) the CNOOC bid is subject to immediate taxation while the Chevron bid (being a partial stock for stock offer) is not.

Discounting for risk and taking the tax deferal into account, I value them at about the same.

July 21, 2005 @ 2:28 am | Comment

Conrad: Fair enough. At about a 2% difference now (if I do my math right) it’s hard to argue with that.

July 21, 2005 @ 2:43 am | Comment

No, Will.

July 21, 2005 @ 3:30 am | Comment

Ok. Didn’t think so. But I see you’ve been a regular on my site, and I thought I’d return the favor if possible. Just have to do it here, I guess.

July 21, 2005 @ 3:46 am | Comment

I see. I am a Guest Blogger on Horse’s Mouth like. I’ll refrain from linking to or even mentioning my last post on HM as Richard will ban me!

July 21, 2005 @ 3:57 am | Comment

Ha! I see you’ve been on a blogging frenzy this afternoon Will. Re the post about birds impersonating mobile phone ringtones, I liked the final line:

“But in China it may be advantageous to have birds chirping mobile phone rings, given that we’ll have no other warning of the looming bird flu.”

Btw, re the Chinese government not providing information requested by health experts about av1an flu, should defo check out Imagethief for the full story.

I sometimes think that it’s amazing how we are all walking around as normal here — with potential pandemics brewing a short distance away and the bloody government playing it’s usual bloody stupid tricks….

July 21, 2005 @ 4:09 am | Comment

Concerning Chevron-CNOOC, it is just a business deal, all concerned will make judgements as to what will be in their best interest. The employees of Unocal will also have to review as to what will be of best interest to them.

Fat Cat’s last comments have me thinking a little about what I had wrote. I did not intend to impute right or wrong to either party. I was just looking at a few pieces of data and making a quick preliminary observation. Fat Cat mentions that the farmers need to address their problem somewhere. There is a court system in China, and its use has increased considerably. The farmers did not use this route (or so it appears from the news accounts). Perhaps they did not use the legal course because they did not judge it would be fair to them in their area, or perhaps because they have no basis for such a lawsuit. We do not know. Much that is written about China is overly simplified and sometimes rather trivial to the real issues. I think that way about American or European issues also.

July 21, 2005 @ 4:14 am | Comment


You write:

Concerning Chevron-CNOOC, [t]he employees of Unocal will also have to review as to what will be of best interest to them.

Unocal employees have no say whatsoever in the matter. The only votes belong to Unocal shareholders and the only way any employee gets a vote is if he happens to also own shares of Unocal.

July 21, 2005 @ 4:22 am | Comment

Unocal employees have no say whatsoever in the matter. The only votes belong to Unocal shareholders and the only way any employee gets a vote is if he happens to also own shares of Unocal.
Posted by Conrad

Except of course as part of the political process, where Unocal employees or any other Tom, Dick, or Conrad could lobby Congress to wrest control of the company away from the Unocal shareholders in the name of “national security”. {see also: Global Crossing and Li Ka-shing}

July 21, 2005 @ 4:28 am | Comment

Probably the CCP has teams of scientists monitoring the birds even though they won’t let unoffical parties do the same. Would there be any benefit to chinese citizens if independent scientists could research? (bigger talent pool creating vaccines?)

I think they are playing with fire, they could contribute to the spread of a new disease all around the world, just to keep the population calm. The bastards.

July 21, 2005 @ 5:10 am | Comment

Western media always lie on China, now you lie on bird flu. You think they no bad health in America?
Then why you criticize China?
(Posted by Ivan the Chinese Nationalist)

July 21, 2005 @ 5:13 am | Comment

Ivan: Get a grip and breathe. Comparing this situation with America is completely –let me stress this again completely— irrelevant. Come up with a better argument.

Of course there are health problems in America. At the moment, however, none of them is threating to emerge as a major, global pandemic. Check that out for yourself.

In fairness, other Asian countries also have bird flu problems, including Vietnam and, recently, Indonesia. But they are not as opaque as China.

China’s government got smacked over SARS, and for a while, it learned like it had learned a lesson. Now, increasingly, it seems that was an illusion. I don’t mind pride, Ivan, but I don’t want it risking my life or my family’s. That’s why I criticize China’s government about this. For the record, I criticize the US, myself, you and anyone else who I think deserves it. Go read my blog if you doubt me.

Ivan, some of us on this thread live here in China. We have Chinese friends. Some have Chinese families. Our livelihoods and lives are tied to the actions China’s government takes. That gives us an interest in what happens here, even more so than people elsewhere in the world who will be affected if bird flu becomes a real pandemic.

You say you are a Chinese nationalist. How about being a Chinese patriot, in the thoughtful sense? Ask yourself what will be best for China? What will be best for you and your family and friends? And then get your head out of the sand. Because if this becomes a real pandemic, it’ll be too late. And it’ll be Chinese people who are first on the sharp end.


The advantage to China of inviting foreign expertise is in concentrating as many minds as possible on the problem and pulling in as many resources as possible for research. Also, transparency builds trust, which will be useful if this becomes a real problem. Furthermore, this is an international issue, and everyone in the world has a stake in it.

July 21, 2005 @ 5:33 am | Comment

In case you don’t yet know, China just revalued the yuan:

July 21, 2005 @ 5:40 am | Comment

Thanks, Simon

Duly linked and grouched by yours truly. Let’s all watch the news tonight to see how red-faced Congress gets at how small the revaluation is.

July 21, 2005 @ 5:48 am | Comment

Ivan,You remind me of some American idiot I know! You’re a bastard person.Thats what you are!

July 21, 2005 @ 5:49 am | Comment

AM, tell me I didn’t just blow off that eloquent rant (if I may say so myself) at someone in mufti? The language does look a little odd…

July 21, 2005 @ 5:53 am | Comment


I have a feeling this will be dismissed by Congress as “too little, too late”.

July 21, 2005 @ 5:56 am | Comment

Will, It WAS rather eloquent. Unfortunately, I’m not so sure his parents are Chinese.

July 21, 2005 @ 5:59 am | Comment

Damn. And here I had played a fine game of whack-a-troll.

Oh well, back to the drawing board.

Simon: You’re right. I think they’ll react even worse than they would for no devaluation at all. They’ll see it as a trivial move, and proof that China doesn’t take their concerns seriously.

July 21, 2005 @ 6:03 am | Comment

Ivan was having a bit of a joke as he usually does.

July 21, 2005 @ 6:04 am | Comment

Ivan is a kook! A zany, wacky kook!

July 21, 2005 @ 6:06 am | Comment

I believe we have two Ivans commenting now. Or so the IP addresses indicate.

Maybe I should force everyone to register so we can’t duplicate names and pretend to be one another, but that’s just another hurdle for everyone and I prefer to have comments open….

July 21, 2005 @ 6:12 am | Comment

A real, really stupid Chinese Nationalist! Wow, It’s a red letter day at The Duck. Congratulations Richard! Will, My apologies.

July 21, 2005 @ 6:19 am | Comment

It’s Ivan the kook. Nobody is that dumb.

July 21, 2005 @ 6:32 am | Comment

China revaluates Yuan

what a shame

July 21, 2005 @ 6:33 am | Comment

Somethings going down in London again!

July 21, 2005 @ 6:40 am | Comment

Oh shit – sounds strange, so little information, but something’s up in London.

July 21, 2005 @ 6:44 am | Comment

let’s see how americans benefit from that move:

July 21, 2005 @ 6:44 am | Comment

No casualties.

July 21, 2005 @ 6:44 am | Comment

I don’t want to spent 3 hours waling home again. Damn it!

July 21, 2005 @ 6:47 am | Comment

Bing, Think of someone other than yourself.You’re in a real country now.

July 21, 2005 @ 6:49 am | Comment

Dummy explosions using detonators
from BBC

July 21, 2005 @ 6:52 am | Comment

I’m glad you won’t be late for dinner.

July 21, 2005 @ 6:57 am | Comment

Don’t be silly, I didn’t have dinner last time. Who would have any appetite after realizing that three stops of his former commuting route were blown up and he only made it to office because of a change from tube to bus for the sake of expensive monthly travelcard?

July 21, 2005 @ 7:09 am | Comment

Then why were you whining about a three hour walk home. Most peoples first reaction would be spent worrying about casualties. Am I wrong?

July 21, 2005 @ 7:12 am | Comment

Sky News reported an incident on a bus in East London, though the television channel quoted a bus operator as saying there were no injuries.

Sky News and the BBC News said Oval, Warren Street and Shepherd’s Bush stations have been evacuated.

Reuters UK just reported that in Warren Street, a nail bomb went off.

The Underground throughout London has now been shut down. Police are saying the incidents aren’t as serious as those two weeks ago.

July 21, 2005 @ 7:12 am | Comment

I was expressing my second reaction, is that all right AM?

July 21, 2005 @ 7:13 am | Comment

If you were expecting my first reaction, I’m sorry for letting you down.

July 21, 2005 @ 7:15 am | Comment

Well , its ok but it was your first reaction here. Remember, when you smile the whole world smile’s around you.

July 21, 2005 @ 7:16 am | Comment

Maybe your first reaction was glee!

July 21, 2005 @ 7:17 am | Comment

Alright, time to change the subject.

July 21, 2005 @ 7:18 am | Comment

I was watching NHK when they talked about the yuan revaluation. Actually, what they have done is removed the yuan from a dollar peg and instead pegged it to a basket of currencies. Mysteriously, I am unable to access any sites that can tell me what the basket consists of.

The London thing is still in a fog (information slow in coming), I tend to flip amon BBC, CNN, NHK, and Fox to see what comes over, but it is all still fuzzy data.

July 21, 2005 @ 7:18 am | Comment

Yes, dad!

July 21, 2005 @ 7:20 am | Comment

Bingfeng, can you explain, in your own words, what you think this means for America?

July 21, 2005 @ 7:21 am | Comment

That means American politicians need to find another excuse to blame China for the trade deficit.

Oh, they may still ask for more flexibility of Chinese yuan.

July 21, 2005 @ 7:27 am | Comment

BTW, I was not trying to explain for Bingfeng for that’s my words.

July 21, 2005 @ 7:29 am | Comment

Are you BingFENG?

July 21, 2005 @ 7:29 am | Comment

Of cause, not

July 21, 2005 @ 7:31 am | Comment

They certainly will ask for more flexibility. This “revaluation” appears to fall well below what the US was hoping for.

July 21, 2005 @ 7:31 am | Comment

That’s why I called it a shame for the Chinese government.

July 21, 2005 @ 7:34 am | Comment

“Bingfeng, can you explain, in your own words, what you think this means for America?”

china-made coffins will be more expensive for americans, therefore they will prefer smaller ones.

trade deficit remains the same. and china will further devaluate yuan, china-made coffins become smaller and smaller, trade deficit still remains the same.

finally china-made coffins become box-sized, with diamonds around and a slogan carved – “we have try our best to devaluate yuan, now peace”

July 21, 2005 @ 7:55 am | Comment

Let me give my view as to what this means to China. First of all, it will not change the current account surplus that it has with the United States (at least significantly). That surplus is due to many complex issues, of which many of them are related to the American financial regime we have setup since the Clinton years (set up during Clinton, maintained by Bush, no partisan volley here).

Whereas China has a current account surplus with America, it has a current account deficit with much of the rest of Asia and that will increase.

This is no panacea for the United States, it was in reality just a political smokescreen to keep everyone from noticing what the real problems are (similar to China keeping up the anti-Japan tirades).

July 21, 2005 @ 8:04 am | Comment

I am in shock. Our president just started to give a speech to the Organization of American States and didn’t say a word about London. Nothing. CNN cut away in apparent amazement.

July 21, 2005 @ 8:13 am | Comment

JFS – the PBoC haven’t announced what’s in the basket of currencies. That’s the whole point. They’ll just announce each day where the basket translates into for the peg against the US dollar for the day.

July 21, 2005 @ 8:16 am | Comment

He probably forgot.

July 21, 2005 @ 8:18 am | Comment

Don’t be surprised if what happened in London couldn’t impress Bush.

You can understand very well the reason from blow:,7371,1531550,00.html

July 21, 2005 @ 8:29 am | Comment

Bing, The current American President is an inbred, dimwitted, palooka who chokes on pretzels.The world is in his hands.Sleep well.

July 21, 2005 @ 8:36 am | Comment


Nothing can surprise me anymore.

July 21, 2005 @ 8:52 am | Comment

” Pine nut, Cashew nut, hazel nut, starved for attention Australian nut…”

July 21, 2005 @ 8:59 am | Comment

Mark Anthony Jones

Yov are one sick fuck!

You are harrassing this man after he aksed you not post to his sites anymore.

I am an lawyer in Shenzhen and I hopes that I can help him.

you belong in sick hospital.

July 21, 2005 @ 9:25 am | Comment

This is the very latest about the new London bombings:
Armed police hold man in London
4.32PM, Thu Jul 21 2005

London has seen four small blasts and three tube stations have been evacuated but there are no reports of any significant casualties.

Also, a small blast happened on a bus in east London. A number of windows were blown out on the top deck.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair has said there have been four blasts or attempts at blasts, none as large as in the terror attacks of two weeks ago.

Comparing the incidents to the July 7 attacks, he said: “These are smaller devices, some of them have not gone off properly. We may have recovered forensic material. It may be important to our investigation.”

A man was held by armed police near Downing Street and taken away by car.

Reports suggest a young Asian man carrying a rucksack was seen running from Oval, chased by others.

July 21, 2005 @ 9:48 am | Comment

A young Asian man was seen running away from the Oval Tube Station—chased by others.

Go on Londoners!!!!!!!

July 21, 2005 @ 9:50 am | Comment


July 21, 2005 @ 9:50 am | Comment

It was Bing running home for dinner.

July 21, 2005 @ 9:51 am | Comment

They are saying the man was about 6’2 so Bing you’re off the hook.

July 21, 2005 @ 9:58 am | Comment

Don’t confuse Asian with Chinese. For many British they stand for two different ethnic groups.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:04 am | Comment

I’m not surprised Chevron upped its bid. I am pleased in a way and if CNOOC now passes one potential sore spot is out of the US/China mix.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:04 am | Comment

I know. I didn’t. I was joking.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:09 am | Comment

Bingfeng is so proud to host these letters from MAJ.

What a fucking piece of low-life scum.

Bingfeng makes the CCP look good.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:13 am | Comment

He’s just jealous of Richard. He has like two people post a day.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:15 am | Comment

Same goes for Jing!

July 21, 2005 @ 10:16 am | Comment

I’m not happy about chevron upping its bid. I think it’s going to now turn into an ideological war instead of just business. More Chinese anti-american stuff and more American anti-chinese stuff isn’t going to help anything.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:17 am | Comment

Bingfeng’s not a bad guy. IU think he sees himself as doing a service giving MAJ a “voice.” The way I see it, however, is that he has trotal freedom to have as loud or soft a voice as he chooses by opening his own blog. I have to believe that inside Bingfeng knows this isn’t about a noble public service on MAJ’s part, that it is something more sinister and abnormal. The irony is that after the initial titillation, which drew a lot of commenters, readers may now feel inclined to avoid the site altogether, let alone comment there. I always enjoyed Bingfeng’s site, but now it has a bad taste.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:27 am | Comment


Yes, I think it was no surprise to anyone that Chevron upped it’s bid. Haier also pulled out of Maytag as well. It’s very much a trend though, the Chinese will continue to look for US assets—mainly out of ambition and politics of course.

I’ve nothing against Chevron taking over Unical, I just don’t think that China are a threat. From where I’m sitting it’s still US-China = Men and boys. It’s like the US swatting at flies. China are a long way from becoming a real threat to the US IMO.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:28 am | Comment

Yup, I think the whole thing backfired on him. He might be MAJ’s next victim.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:31 am | Comment

Btw, I mean “threat” vis-a-vis companies and world trade. I’m not saying we shouldn’t be vigilant, just that we shouldn’t give China too much credit. Chinese companies are corporate minnows at the mo and for the forseeable.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:37 am | Comment


I’m of the impression that MAJ, who created another persona to discuss nude photos of him and the size of his penis, is obviously someone who suffers from having a little dick.

He was probably made fun of in school and judging from his behavior, it has taken a negative toll on his personality.

He is a frightening person and I feel sorry for his girlfriend (another figment of his imagination).

MAJ doesn’t have a Chinese girlfriend, he created her as he created Dr. Anne Myers and unfortunately I can not reveal just how I know this.

MAJ is actually bisexual and he has a fetish for transgendered individuals. This explains his constant mentioning of certain individuals being homosexual. It also explains his fascination of the penis and his creation of a partner of the opposite sex.

If I were you, I would take your previous poster up on his/her offer to represent you. A Chinese lawyer with guanxi has more power than a psychotic pervert from some foreign land.

July 21, 2005 @ 11:27 am | Comment

Dave, do you really think I could take this to a lawyer? I have the record logs and the IP address can help track down the user (I know some of his rants were written at work), I wouldn’t have thought about this seriously until today. But there comes a point….

July 21, 2005 @ 11:34 am | Comment

Can someone tell what the “china threat” really means more concretely?

As I see it, in some sense, chinese people really work for america as slaves. They work hard and send cheap goods to the US, and they return the money back to the US to T-bill, shouldn’t we be happy about it? I wonder how much money of the Tax cut in this country came from China indirectly.

Complain about the chinese currency? Did not we praise their currency’s peg to the dollar during the asia financial crisis and the peg has been there for a long time. Now we blame it because we want to hide the domestic policy failures, … It has been always safe to say bad things about China.

July 21, 2005 @ 11:36 am | Comment

The “China Threat” as currently used refers to the military threat, which the Pentagon and Rummy and all the neocons are wringing their hands over. But I think some people her it as something bigger and broader, a combination of the perceived military threat combined with the threat of a second superpower that can destroy our economy and take our jobs. It’s sort of a bogeyman designed to frighten people. Because everyone loves a good scapegoat.

July 21, 2005 @ 11:39 am | Comment

I’d agree with some of what you say renxu but China is not above criticism. All of us criticism America for example, in fact criticising America is quite fashionable these days.

However, that said, you can’t just take every negative comment that has ever been spoken about China, sometimes by individuals, over the years and say things like “It has been always safe to say bad things about China.”

Some critcisms are valid (like General Zhu’s recent comments about nuking America) and some not so valid (too numerous to mention) but them’s the breaks I’m afraid.

July 21, 2005 @ 11:56 am | Comment

Richard I really despise such behavior as what I am about to suggest, but I feel that you have no other options in this case.

First let me say that you do indeed have legal options in this matter.

Second, as I mentioned in my email, I have an in-law that serves as a judge in Shenzhen and I’m certain that if you were willing to buy me a few beers and treat my wife and I to an upscale restaurant, my family guanxi would place your stalker in serious trouble.

I’ve already provided the IP address you published to my wifes brother and as I indicated in my previous email, the ball is in your court.

To put it bluntly as he did, “China has enough problems, we don’t need sick foreigners like this bringing us unwanted attention.”

July 21, 2005 @ 11:56 am | Comment


“I have to believe that inside Bingfeng knows this isn’t about a noble public service on MAJ’s part, that it is something more sinister and abnormal. ”


I have not been following this blog for awhile. But I know Bingfeng had defended you numerous times. I know MAJ was wrong to disclose your personal information, notice that I didnt involve with him to that level. And Richard you, sir are not any better, sinister and abnormal are two very nasty words to describe a Bingfeng. Enough is enough, do you just don’t like Chinese commenters??? Is that it?

Your Ex loyal fan.

July 21, 2005 @ 11:58 am | Comment

JR, I see you are as spiteful and angry as ever. It is MAJ’s tactics that I called sinister and abnormal. I would never, ever say that about Bingferng. I consider him a friend and I have never spoken ill of him. Please go back and re-read what I said. Read it s-l-o-w-l-y.

I hope everyone sees what I have to put up with all day.

Oh, and good to see you back, JR. ๐Ÿ™‚ It’s good to see you made a new friend over in that now-deleted thread. The two of you deserve one another.

July 21, 2005 @ 12:07 pm | Comment

Can’t we all just get along?

(hint: no)

The Melian Dialogue wins again! Where’s my big stick…

July 21, 2005 @ 12:11 pm | Comment

Dave, let’s discuss via email. Those posts on all the other blogs with the same IP address will help if we can get them subpoened. My concern is that China’s legal system is quite different from America’s – but if you’ve got good guanxi, that might be all that’s need. Name your restaurant; we’ll even have them wheel over that huge bottle of Hennessy XO you see in all the nice Chinese restaurants.

July 21, 2005 @ 12:12 pm | Comment


Well I apologize if I read that sentence wrong. But that sentence structure was confusing to me.

July 21, 2005 @ 12:12 pm | Comment

It’s okay JR. Believe it or not, I’m not a monster and I used to enjoy your comments. Think about coming back, and lighten up a bit.

July 21, 2005 @ 12:16 pm | Comment

Thanks, Richard. I am a chinese living in the US and I don’t see US and China are threat to each other so I want to know what the China-threat means for people here.

China is an inward-looking nation and I think it will always be. I think that US and China can only go to war over Taiwan; but it is manageable and the possibility is not big. China’s military modernation should not be viewed automatically as a threat. Our defence spending in this country is more than all of the rest combined, are the chinese willing to listen to our leture to them on their spending increase (remeber Rummy speach in Singapore …).

Economically, just because the chinese like to live like American and have a better life, does not mean it is a threat to America. The ever-growing trade between the two countries benefit the two countries hugely. As China develops, many jobs will go to China, but that’s natural and fair competition, right?

So, people won’t see China as a thread if they look at the Chinese as normal people just like them and not obsses with the superpower status (it is really a illusion and doesn’t have much real meaning for ordinary people).

July 21, 2005 @ 12:16 pm | Comment

I tend to agree, renxu. Some of my readers get mad at me for saying it, but I see the China threat as tremendously exaggerated by Democrats and Republicans alike for their political advantage. And I am afraid that it is only going to get worse.

July 21, 2005 @ 12:22 pm | Comment

Yes, I agree. As the war in Iraq moves more to the background, the China rhetoric will heat up. But, it is rhetoric only and people on both side will return to the reality; Us and China need each other.

July 21, 2005 @ 12:34 pm | Comment

renxu, you speak a great deal of sense there. I think that a lot of the “China threat” statements are motivated by the fact that a very inward-looking (as you say) authoritarian government rule China in a one party-state system with an iron grip.

I don’t tend to hear anybody criticising the Chinese people, it tends to be the government. The current situation over burd-flu is a good example.

July 21, 2005 @ 12:42 pm | Comment

Sorry for beeing a little off the topic. Just wanted to tell everybody that we lucky Germans have the chance to elect a new parliament in September and it is likely that there will be the first female Chancelor in power in September. And it moves!

July 21, 2005 @ 12:45 pm | Comment


I just want to say that I don’t think you are a monster, I always think that you and Lisa are two great progressive people as a matter of fact.

July 21, 2005 @ 12:54 pm | Comment

I appreciate it JR, but to be honest, I didn’t detect that kind of admiration during your love duet with MAJ over at Bingfeng’s comments. But let’s forget that and move on.

July 21, 2005 @ 12:59 pm | Comment


I think I was trying to give some balance to the discusion on China. I was a very stronge critic of the chinese government; I didn’t believe the leaders and I didn’t like what they do. I found some balance over the years. During my visits to China, I found things were generally improving and most people are having better life. There are many things I don’t like (lack of political reform stands out), but China is fairing resonablely well. It is easily to understand many things in China if one takes into consideration that China is very complex and bardward in many areas. It is very important things are moving in the right direction.

I am think this in a broader context. Admitted or not, foreigners and oversea chinese (me included) like to think that we are smarter and we have many good advices for the chinese. I used to tell my classmates and family members who things are done in the US. As China develop and people there become more confident of their ways of doing things, they are not willing to be letured by outsiders.

I have no comment on the general Zhu Chenghu. I just think he is madman and stupid.

On the discussion on Chinese food, I think it is just laughable when someone suggested that it was only safe to eat in western fast food stores in China.

I’d agree with some of what you say renxu but China is not above criticism. All of us criticism America for example, in fact criticising America is quite fashionable these days.

However, that said, you can’t just take every negative comment that has ever been spoken about China, sometimes by individuals, over the years and say things like “It has been always safe to say bad things about China.”

Some critcisms are valid (like General Zhu’s recent comments about nuking America) and some not so valid (too numerous to mention) but them’s the breaks I’m afraid.

July 21, 2005 @ 1:05 pm | Comment

Here’s hoping to the Iron Lady of Germany!

July 21, 2005 @ 1:22 pm | Comment


Talking about the Chinese government, one thing is sure, China won’t become a new America. If the China government evolve into a Singapore-style government, will it be more acceptable? I thnk most chinese would be happy to have a goverment that is efficient, responsible, less corrupt and able to solve problems of daily life.

July 21, 2005 @ 1:23 pm | Comment

Iron lady is perhaps a bit if an exageration when it commes to dear Angela Merkel.

July 21, 2005 @ 1:47 pm | Comment

I’d love for America and China both to adopt a democratic election system of Australia (mandatory, and weighted such that, for instance, Gore would have won in 2000), and a parliamentary style of Britain (lots of debate, no stilted filandering), but with the Executive branch and judicial branch as the US has it.

July 21, 2005 @ 2:41 pm | Comment

Closing this one up with a mere 140 comments.

July 21, 2005 @ 6:53 pm | Comment

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