People’s Congress

This is an open thread for all things China-related, and also everything else you’d like to discuss.

Please be sure to check out the new Amazon links I set up on the left, and let me know what other books you’d like me to include. As for ongoing threads, this one has been the best of the past 24 hours.

I’m still not sure about open threads being a daily feature. If I set them up and no one comments, I’ll experience a crushing loss of face and feel like a total moron. So please, comment!

The Discussion: 145 Comments

Fight the urge! no loss of face! live passionately and screw it if no one replies! Anyway, you’ve got one here now. ๐Ÿ™‚

New posts on my site! 3, soon to be four!

Sorry, blatant plug there.

June 15, 2005 @ 6:42 pm | Comment

hot bout some fiction? the story of ah-q (by itself or included in the great collection ‘diary of a madman and other stories’) by liu xun. dunhuang dreams by xu xiaobin. fragrant weeds, a collection of short stories by various authors, written at the cusp of the revolution (and promptly banned, the theme of many was of young people who believed in the ideals of the party but were frustrated by corruption or apathy).

non-fiction, anything by liu binyan. also, though not directly china related, ‘a force more powerful’ by peter ackerman and jack duval, a history of nonviolent protest, the success stories.

June 15, 2005 @ 7:05 pm | Comment

yeah, that first word should read ‘how’…

June 15, 2005 @ 7:14 pm | Comment

Echo, I added Diary of a Madman – now, will you write a book review for it? ๐Ÿ™‚

For Xu they only have books inm CHinese and they aren’t available anyway. Foir Lu Xun they have some books called “Chinese Reader” – is that what you have in mind? Thanks.

June 15, 2005 @ 7:19 pm | Comment

being a bloger is not easy, i just expericed once, i had to write with a lot of HTTP tags, the layout always was different with that in design time, so tired, is that the right way?

June 15, 2005 @ 7:34 pm | Comment

Henry, you are off to a good start and I am hoping everyone here will visit your site! Please email me if you ever need any help with anything related to your blog.

I never saw rice served in a big brown bucket like that before. ๐Ÿ™‚

June 15, 2005 @ 7:36 pm | Comment

california earthquake, no news from other lisa? hope everything is ok with her

and, learned from news that msot americans regard the american soldier deserted during korean war a “traitor” and don’t want him to come back and live in US again. is that true?

June 15, 2005 @ 7:51 pm | Comment

Bingfeng, I believe it is true, about Charles Jenkins, the deserter. To leave your soldier “brothers” to join the enemy fighting against them is considered very poor form. Personally, I believe he has suffered enough and wish they would just leave him alone. But America is a conservative country, and the veterans are leading the chorus calling him a traitor. In this case, I can’t deny he meets the definition of a traitor. He was young and foolish and he paid dearly for his stupidity, but that’s really no excuse. A very sad, strange story.

June 15, 2005 @ 7:54 pm | Comment

I think she’s fine – I checked my statcounter and saw that someone checked their email in California , and there are only two people on my email list – the first is most probably Gordon – although it’s never been confirmed – and the second is almost positively Other Lisa.

How’s that for a web Nanny? I hope I’m right.

Re: Jenkins – yes, and for exactly the situation Richard described. Thou shalt not cross a vet. I don’t really know what I think about him – on the one hand I’m like I am with Chen – if he wants to leave, let him – but on the other…. what to do if he wants to come back? hmm.

June 15, 2005 @ 8:01 pm | Comment

You are fucking hypocrites. You say Chen Yonglin is a not a traitor, but Jenkins is a traitor. Stupid Americans. Anyone who stabs their country in the heart is a traitor.

June 15, 2005 @ 8:23 pm | Comment

Dude, I have no idea what you are talking about. can you show me where I said that? Thanks for the expletive. It really helps drive home your point.

June 15, 2005 @ 8:40 pm | Comment

I wear Chinese underwear, Hongdou to be specific, so I’m not traitor. Also I ate duck today for lunch, and just for good measure I read Bingfeng’s site, and I must say, Bingfeng, the pic of the Policewoman earns beaucoup points for you–nevermind the critics. When all is said and done, a pretty face and/or body can do wonders.
About three weeks ago, a dynamite factory right next to my college exploded. Now, I am not going into the dynamics of why the hell a dynamite factory was built next to a college–I’ll leave that one to higher minds than mine–but anyway, as a result of the explosion, which rumor said around 20 workers were killed, but I hear now only 3 or 4, there were a substantial amount of gas leaks. Egads, my wife and I had to walk through the gas leaks. To most of the denizens here, they seemed like it wasn’t serious.
Anyway, Richard I think this open thread is a great thing. Anyone want to hear about my experiences in massage parlors? I promise you I won’t be a traitor. I had to pay dammit!

June 15, 2005 @ 8:46 pm | Comment

pogai, I want to know where trolls like you come from? You seem to seep out of the woodwork and then disappear.

Hank, I am dying to hear your massage story. I have a good one from Guilin. Never met such aggressive “masseuses.”

June 15, 2005 @ 9:00 pm | Comment

Laowai, I’ll read yours if you read mine!

June 15, 2005 @ 9:42 pm | Comment

Right, I got a question. How do I make the text of my blog searchable> Anyone know? What I mean is, if someone googles for Max Clifford or sticker litter, how do I make it so there’s a chance that my site will turn up in the search?


June 15, 2005 @ 10:03 pm | Comment

Howdy All!

Actually, I didn’t even feel the earthquake (though in my little 1912 cottage, the washer is on spin and it FEELS like an earthquake). But when I got home last night, my mom called me up and said, “Did you hear about the tsunami alert?” I’m like, the tsunami alert? I live in Venice (that’s in LA) and I’m about, oh, a mile from the beach. I am officially in a tsunami zone, but they are pretty unlikely here. So I called the LAPD, they didn’t know anything about it except what they heard on the radio/internet but recommended I call something called the Direct Weather service, for which they didn’t have the number. So I called information. For once, I was connected, not to an Indian call center, not even to an operator on the other side of the US, but to a guy who said, “oh, you want the Harbor Police. Tsunami alert, right?” And I ask, so where are you? And he is in Santa Monica! Score one for localism, which I firmly support when it comes to information operators. Can I just say, I HATE getting information operators who are nowhere near the place you are calling?

Anyway, I called the Harbor Police, they hadn’t heard anything officially either, but one of their operators thought she’d heard on the radio that the alert had been cancelled. Which it had.

yikes. Not exactly a smooth emergency procedure.

Hank, an exploding fireworks factory?! I know this happens all the time but please do tell.

Okay, so for MY blatant blogwh0re, I posted about the horrible flood that killed all those school kids in Shalan district. Martyn sent me a good (as in informative but equally horrific) update from the South China Post, which I also posted.

Laowai, you are a good net nanny! That probably was me. Busy at work so not a lot of time to check out blogs though I did briefly visit yours for the Mao piece. I feel like there’s so much to say about that topic that I couldn’t get my brain going enough to toss off a short comment.

Yeah Richard, keep the open threads! I’m sure you’ll have some days that are lighter than others, but we promise to always comment enough to give you face.

June 15, 2005 @ 10:29 pm | Comment

p.s. regarding Charles Jenkins? He’s old, he’s had a hard life, he made a mistake and he’s been punished enough. Let it go.

But maybe that’s just me.

June 15, 2005 @ 10:34 pm | Comment

And Bingfeng not Bing, thanks for your concern!

June 15, 2005 @ 10:37 pm | Comment

I can’t imagine any impending loss of face regarding the People’s Congress threads as it isn’t necessary to open a new one everyday.

Just open a new thread when the last one fills up. I think the inital reaction of many commentors to these open threads has already justified your brave decision to add this new feature to our Peking Duck.

I still consider it an excellent addition to the site and, at least so far, it doesn’t appear to be affecting the other threads as the comments here wouldn’t fit onto a normal thread.

Anyway, you still have thousands of “People’s” puns to get through yet!

June 15, 2005 @ 11:33 pm | Comment

Well, Richard you’re right about Jenkins: Under the law of the US, he is a traitor. On the other hand I’d prefer to see an elegant and magnanimous resolution of this all around. Ideally I think he should confess to treason in a court of law and then be given clemency. I would have SOME respect for him if he actually confessed to treason.
And the worst traitors seldom are seldom caught or punished. Treason can also mean betraying the Constitution of the United States. “All enemies foreign and domestic…”

June 15, 2005 @ 11:36 pm | Comment

better to rename it as a “weekly open thread” and put it on the left side of the page

btw, a “friday girl blogging” will definitely attract more readers for richard. i am kidding …

also change my name back to bingfeng since Bing seems detered by the name “bingfeng not Bing” and disappeared

June 15, 2005 @ 11:41 pm | Comment

PS, Richard, how do I register here to have my name in red like some other regulars? (I’ve gotten to like this place and have been posting a bit more often.) Just don’t want any trolls to impersonate the name Ivan which I use here. Is there a way to get one of those cool red monikers even if I want to keep my email confidential? ๐Ÿ™‚

June 15, 2005 @ 11:43 pm | Comment

And I think we’ve all got it straight that Bingfeng is not Bing at this point.

But aren’t there two Steves and Petes? I have to admit, that has got me confused…

I’m so used to there being a lot of Lisa’s, which is why I decided that I am Other Lisa.

June 15, 2005 @ 11:43 pm | Comment

Great selection of China books on the Amazon links.

However, as well as having individual book links, is it possible to set up some general links via TPD account to either or–China books. I just searched for “books” “china” on Amazon and it listed 37,000+ titles. Wow.

I will gladly do a TPD review for The New Chinese Empire. How would that work anyway? Will there be a TPD thread available for each featured title?

June 15, 2005 @ 11:43 pm | Comment

depends. if jenkins deserted when fighting against north korean aggression, then he is, if he deserted when into the north korean soil, the he is not. i would surprise to see some german or japanese soldieres of wwii deserted be called “traitors”

June 15, 2005 @ 11:48 pm | Comment


I keep forgetting to tell you but are you aware that EastSouthWestNorth was featured on one of Phoenix TV’s Mandarin-language channels about a month ago?

It received about a 5 minutes review on one of the press and media review programmes.

Let me know if you don’t have any idea what I’m talking about and I’ll tell you what I remember. Thanks.

June 15, 2005 @ 11:52 pm | Comment

Ivan, the red link just means that you’ve entered an email address and/or a URL.

June 15, 2005 @ 11:58 pm | Comment

Hey Lisa, the news story about the Chinese govt offering a paultry amount of cash to the parents of those deceased children in order to quickly put the incident to rest that you wrote about on Paper Tiger yesterday has just updated.

I’ve just sent you the update.

Bad news I’m afraid. Looks like the local officials got themselves a mighty good deal this time.

Don’t forget that in order to recieve the cash the parents will be required to sign a “Release of Liability” disclaimer which prevents them from taking ANY further action.

It’s shocking how the Chinese officals can take advantage of these poor people during this awful time as well as effectively deny them their legel rights/legal representation.

June 16, 2005 @ 12:03 am | Comment

News through IHT that a writer, Wang Yi, who had his self-published 900 some books confiscated by the censor nannies, has sued to get the books back. That’s balls. But that’s government “by the people” too. Check the article as it explains who he is and why he is suing.

June 16, 2005 @ 12:28 am | Comment

Other Lisa, I’ve just left a longish comment on Paper Tiger regarding the children’s deaths and the govt really showing us the true nature of a corrupt, one-party state.

It’s a brilliant example of just how low some Chinese cadres are prepared to stoop (and that’s up against some pretty stiff competition) in order to prevent embarrassment and protect their precious careers. It’s pretty sickening.

June 16, 2005 @ 12:42 am | Comment

Pete, got link? I’d love to read that.

Martyn. Ugh. I’ll post right now.

Those poor parents.

June 16, 2005 @ 12:42 am | Comment

Martyn, and you know, it’s not that we don’t have plenty of similar corrupt powerbrokers here in the US, for example. It’s just that in China, there’s no sufficiently strong force to act against these types. Those parents have no real recourse, no place to turn.

June 16, 2005 @ 12:44 am | Comment

I’m still wondering why 15 truckloads of PLA soldiers are needed to surround a funeral home.

To help grieving parents with their loss or to shoot them if they think of causing trouble for local officials?

June 16, 2005 @ 12:45 am | Comment

Ms Other Lisa (when you run the name together it sounds like a species of herb),
Thanks for the info. For the time being I’ll refrain from posting my email address, as I’m in China and want to keep some anonymity.

June 16, 2005 @ 12:47 am | Comment


To supply them with hankies, I’m sure…

June 16, 2005 @ 12:52 am | Comment

BTW, Martyn sent me the updates on this story, and his perspective is really worthwhile.

June 16, 2005 @ 1:05 am | Comment

Other Lisa today’s edition.

June 16, 2005 @ 1:07 am | Comment

Martyn , or other lisa, can you put that post on Lisa’s blogcity blog as well?

re. The Amazon links, thank God I don’t have a credit card! I think I’ll be picking up the Mao book as soon as I get to Heathrow next week. If I picked it up in Beijing I’d have to pay more excess baggage, but something tells me it won’t classify as airport reading in China! Incidentally (I blog, and then I plug, I blog…) I’ve just embellished my entry about Teaching English as a Missionary language with some choice quotes from the article I linked to, for anyone like me who’s allergic to pdfs, or can’t face the thought of an agonizingly slow scroll through 33 pages of text.

June 16, 2005 @ 1:13 am | Comment

Richard W., I’m posting everything I put on blogspot on blog-city, no worries. It’s there.

June 16, 2005 @ 1:41 am | Comment

Bingfeng, thanks. It’s 1 AM here and I’m going to look at this tomorrow with a dictionary. My written Chinese is still pretty bad. Good for Sina though. What a tragedy.

p.s. I’m taking a summer class that’s just about Chinese characters. I have a wonderful teacher who is a graduate of BCLU. This will be the first class that she’s taught in English (many non-Chinese students/speakers are interested in learning about Hanzi). I’m really looking forward to it.

June 16, 2005 @ 1:46 am | Comment

Richard W

Nice article on The Three T’s about CCTV9.

More costume changes than a Kylie Minogue concert indeed. Haha.

RE another one of your posts, did you know that Dashan was recently involved in an alledged corruption scandal in Canada?

It concerned some sort of sponsorship deal for the production of a CCTV programme called Dashan and Friends in Canada.

Apparently, Dashan’s company received US$8 miilion from some fund that was supposed to promote Quebec federalism! You couldn’t make it up. I’ve no idea what a CCTV programme has to do with Quebec federalism but there you go.

I read the story on angrychineseblogger in May and I haven’t seen any further update so I don’t know what happened.

June 16, 2005 @ 1:54 am | Comment

By the way, before I go to sleep (which I really need to do), are any of you familiar with the modern opera, “Nixon in China”? If you’re not, it is pure genius, really! I saw it live twice, back when it premiered during the LA festival, and I had the pleasure to meet the director, Peter Sellars. I’m reminded of this because of Richard’s Amazon link to the White Boned Demon. I asked Sellars if he’d read that book when doing the research on “Nixon” (I really liked the book). I think he said something like, “it’s rather juicy, isn’t it?”

Anyway, I’ve read a ton of books about modern Chinese history, and I think in a weird way that “Nixon In China” goes to some truths that many non-fiction accounts were not able to grasp.

Plus because of my bizarre Ausberger-type memory, I can huge chunks of the damn thing, from beginning to end.

June 16, 2005 @ 1:57 am | Comment

that would be SING “huge chunks of the thing.”

“We no longer need Confucious! Let him rot!”

June 16, 2005 @ 1:58 am | Comment

it seems Dashan is not very popular with many foreigners in china. why is that?

and it reminds me the soap drama telling a storyy of an american girl in beijing, who was attacked by some foreigners (especially americans) as helping chinese “bashing american”. very funny

June 16, 2005 @ 1:58 am | Comment


You’re right about foreingers’ feelings about Dashan. I can’t stand him personally.

Part of my reasons involve his overly-goofy and exaggerated cheery style when he’s on TV. Also his “good news only” approach to modern China and his perceived blind acceptance of the party line.

He is, after all, one of the poster boys of the CCP.

If you want more reasons as to why foreigners dislike him so much, angrychineseblogger did a typically thorough piece on Dashan in his ‘May Archives’ entitled “Big mountain in big scandal: CCTVโ€™s โ€˜poster boyโ€™ implicated in Canadian cash affair”.

June 16, 2005 @ 2:21 am | Comment

Is the Nixon in China opera available on DVD yet do you know? I’m watched so many of the things over the last year, but sadly very few things that I really wanted to see, and so many that I really didn’t. You can get every Almodavar film here, for example, but not Talk To Her, which is the only one I haven’t seen.

These weekend I’ve having an Eastern Bloc theme on my blog – free vodka shots and black bread for anyone prepared to queue up for a really long time!

June 16, 2005 @ 2:23 am | Comment

Incidentally, Martyn, were you serious about writing up some of your stories in a ‘guest blogger’ capacity? Feel free to say no!

June 16, 2005 @ 2:26 am | Comment

The case of German soldiers who deserted during WW2 still is one of the not so nice sides of German post-war history.
Only in the 90es there emerged a discussion about them. It is estimated that during the war nearly 50 000 soldiers where convicted of beeing deserter most of which emediatly where killed.
Those who survived today still are considered to be previously convicted. The convictions never where lifted, no judge ever was held reposible.
Sad and a scandal.

June 16, 2005 @ 6:37 am | Comment

It appears all blog city sites are unaccessible at the moment. I hope that’s not cause for concern.

June 16, 2005 @ 8:21 am | Comment

Another book for the Amazon links that I would personally recommend is Mr. China by Tim Clissold.

Tim was one of two blokes that raised billions on Wall Street to create a massive fund, invest it all in China in the up-and-coming supply/manufacture industries and clean up. Well, at least that was the plan.

Tim and his business partner are mentioned quite a few times in The China Dream but Mr. China tells us the whole story and it is so hilarious.

Their foolproof business plan smashed up against the hard rock wall of the ignorance and arrogance Chinese managers.

I would love to write a review for that book as I only just finished it.

June 16, 2005 @ 8:28 am | Comment

Sorry about that. I wrote the above.

June 16, 2005 @ 8:30 am | Comment

I’m not sure why so many laowai are so hard on DaShan. For heaven’s sake, he’s an entertainer and an educator! He is not a gov’t official or a diplomat. What do you expect of him?

Many Chinese are insecure about their English speaking skills, especially when speaking directly to foreigners. In my teaching experience I have found that a smiling, outgoing foreigner who warmly encourages his students – and can joke with them in their own language – is a winning combination. If you can put people at ease and help them relax, they will be much more willing to take a chance, open their mouth, and do their best.

I don’t know anything about the recent allegations, but at least DaShan is a popular, positive media image of a westerner.

And how many of those are there in Chinese media?

The world could use a few more DaShans and Yao Mings. My hat’s off to the guy.

June 16, 2005 @ 8:40 am | Comment


You’re right. I can’t access Paper Tiger from Guangzhou.

Usually when a site is under repair or something they post a sign to this reagard.

Does anyone know what’s going on?

June 16, 2005 @ 8:44 am | Comment


That’s the first comment of yours that I’ve ever read that spouts rubbish.

Dashan is a buffoon, a positive image of a westerner he most certainly is not. I’d say that Mother Teresa or someone like that can be a positive image of a westerner but not that clown.

People don’t like him because he’s an apologist for the CCP, he plugs into that whole “everything in China is rosy and wonderful rubbish”.

He doesn’t live here anyway, when he’s not working he lives in Canada. I don’t blame him.

June 16, 2005 @ 8:51 am | Comment

Mr. Slim, you are the first person I’ve heard of that likes da shan.

June 16, 2005 @ 8:53 am | Comment

By the way, Slim, can you access blog-city in Shanghai?

June 16, 2005 @ 8:54 am | Comment

The worst part of it is … Chinese often tell me I looked like Dashan. I only comfort myself by reminding myself that all laowai look the same.

June 16, 2005 @ 9:23 am | Comment

Paul, you say DaShan is not a positive image of a westerner. How is he not a positive image? Simply because he fails to criticize China in a manner that would please you or other westerners?

From my conversations with locals, Chinese generally seem to have quite a positive opinion of him. It’s only foreigners who take potshots at him with terms like “apologist”. Since when are entertainers and educators required to be political commentators? Is Martha Stewart an “apologist” for the Bush administration? Is Mr. Bean an “apologist” for Tony Blair?

Also, I would be careful about blaming him for matters that are more likely decisions of the show’s producers.

Finally, as an aside, if you ask Indians who interacted with Mother Theresa, you may hear a very different story about that “saintly” woman.

Michael wrote:
>Mr. Slim, you are the first person I’ve heard of that likes da shan.

I’m the first person, or the first foreigner? Did you ask any locals? ๐Ÿ˜‰

June 16, 2005 @ 9:50 am | Comment

Huh, seems to be a general blog city problem – I can’t get to it this AM in California either…

I think the Da Shan thing is mostly, if you are a foreign guy trying to learn Chinese, you will always get compared (negatively) to Da Shan.

I didn’t run into the whole phenom so much as a woman but I can see how it would start to get annoying.

Bingfeng, I for one really want to see the “Foreign Babes in Beijing” show and am hoping I can pick up a copy next time I’m in China. I am reading the book by one of the actresses – she played the wicked Jiexie – and it’s really funny. She has a very good sense of humor about the whole thing.

June 16, 2005 @ 10:13 am | Comment

Oh, Richard W., I don’t think it’s out on DVD yet (Nixon in China). I wish it would be. I have the CDs. I saw the founding cast perform in LA. Apparently there was a recent UK version (different cast) which is supposed to be very good also, and I am hoping for at least a CD release of that. The CDs of the production I saw are pretty good but not perfect (Mme. Mao is rather screechy. But her aria – “I speak according to the book” – is a lot of fun).

June 16, 2005 @ 10:16 am | Comment

You’re getting far too heavy about dashan SSlim.

I can understand why he isn’t popular with foreigners and the same people you say have a positive image of him also usually scream “hallo” at me and run off sniggering when I’m walking down the street. By OUR standards, he is a bit of a fool.

June 16, 2005 @ 10:21 am | Comment

He’s unpopular with foreigners. The fact that he’s been on CCTV for years sort of makes it obvious that Chinese people like him. I don’t think that needs pointing out.

June 16, 2005 @ 10:25 am | Comment

Lisa, I am a huge fan of Nixon in China – from a purely musical perspective, I always thought it was one of the mostr beautiful examples of minimalist composition, with an exquisite vocal line and generally gorgeous sound. I, too, wish it were on DVD.

So much stuff here, it’s impossible to catch up with all of it. Shanghai Slim may be “wrong” about Dasha, but please, don’t crucify him for it. (And I put “wrong” in quotes because this is totally subjective, with no right or wrong.)

I thought I’d try to give each of these threads a new name as I post them, but that’s soon going to drain my creativity. Any name suggestions you may have are welcomed.

I can’t access blog city either – frustrating, as I wanted to read Horse’s Mouth and Public Enemy this morning.

Ivan, to get your name in red simply add an email address. It can be a fake, like (Conrad always uses that). You’re name will then be highlighted.

I’ll see about adding more books and DVDs, as well as an Amazon search function. And anyone who wants to review these or other book available on Amazon, please feel free; I will post them all.

Over at an ancient post I’ve been getting some very impassioned comments. This was a post I put up at the peak of the SARS crisis, when I was totally enraged at the CCP>. (There were one tons of comments there, but when I switched to Movable Type they were all lost.)

Richard W., great post on CCTV. Thanks for exposing it as the exercise in idiocy that it is.

June 16, 2005 @ 10:33 am | Comment

Hello everone, I’m a rew reader and I just posted my first two comments just now. I found this site when I was googling Taiwan.

I’ve never seen this people thread before. I really like it as it provides for a kinda Peking Duck online community feel and it’s unique to all the other blogs I have read.

Rather than just commenting on the topic threads people can drop by here and talk about anything or advertise their blogs. I really like it and would very modestly encourage you to keep it up as I see that it’s still a new idea being tested.

Otherwise I wouldn’t have read Three T’s CCTV post and I’m annoyed that I can’t read the Paper Tiger post about the payment made to the families of the dead children.

Please keep up the good work and I’ll keep commenting!

June 16, 2005 @ 11:11 am | Comment

Allan, as long as you are not in the PRC, you can read the paper tiger post at

I set up the blog-city site so that people in China could access it – blogspot is blocked there for some arbitrary reason.

June 16, 2005 @ 11:22 am | Comment

Richard, I too love Nixon in China from a musical perspective. I think it’s gorgeous – and it really is singable, unlike a lot of modern stuff.

June 16, 2005 @ 11:23 am | Comment

I am in China other lisa. I think it is a network problem because if it was a block then there is no reason that I can think of why you shouldn’t be able to access blog-city from US.

Now the site that you started for China readers because your blog was blocked in China is now unaccessable in the US. What a mess.

June 16, 2005 @ 12:31 pm | Comment

never one to blow my own trumpet or even my niu’s bi but Richard suggested I post here to alert *Filthy Stinking Numero Nine* to a response I just made to his rather uncivil reply to my earlier gushingly polite and respectful obervations pertaining to problematic remarks he made in the comments section of …

… “The Chinese Spy who Came in from the Cold” entry halfway down this page

June 16, 2005 @ 1:55 pm | Comment

oops, I meant

June 16, 2005 @ 2:23 pm | Comment

Open thread good. I will come here often. Richard, can you explain the blogspot/blog-city thing? Are the posts from China all somehow merged into this thread? In China the big sites hosting personal web pages are all blocked: yahoo, blogspot, etc. It’s too much trouble to try to locate and block offending personal websites, so the government just blocks the whole thing. I think the most pressing concern for the government is blocking Falun Gong, which has an incredibly large and savvy net presence. We don’t hear much in the MSM about FLG nowadays. Maybe they are a little too fringe to attract favorable attention in the West as Chinese dissidents. That defecting diplomat in Australia was monitoring FLG among other things. I wonder if he was an FLG convert himself.

In terms of plugging my blog, I’ve been on a North Korea kick recently. I recently wrote a long post The Politics of Hunger in North Korea, where I draw some parallels between the famine in North Korea and the Great Leap Forward. Comments welcome.

June 16, 2005 @ 2:25 pm | Comment

Allan, I wanted to welcome you to the thread – thanks for commenting.

China Hand, the paranoid PRC started banning blogspot back in late 2002, and they have also banned Yahoo Groups and all Geocities sites. I think the theme here is that these are communities where people can voice opinions and interact in real time, and that scares the CCP shitless — they can’t censor the conversations. Thus the blanket blogout/blackout. Later on they set their sites on Typepad. I don’t know what’s going on with blog city right now; it’s still down. It can’t be a blogspot-style blackout, because it wouldn’t affect us here. However, if blog city is owned and operated inside China, it’s not inconceivable that they may have simply shut down the entire operation. No evidence for that yet, but they’ve done similar things in the past.

June 16, 2005 @ 2:55 pm | Comment

“communities where people can voice opinions and interact in real time, and that scares the CCP shitless”-richard.

That is the unadulterated truth, a bitter little pill for the ccp apologists I fear.

You know, reading the threads, I am sometimes exasperated at some of the commenters who conveniently fail to acknowledge the truth about some of the nasty realities about china.

The blocking of blogspot etc., the registration of websites within china etc., it is essentially because the ccp is completely scared sh*tless at the threat of people expressing their opinions and views.

Hopefully this fear will be the cause of their downfall.

I read some posts by KLS about fears about china collapsing and whether it was better to maintain the status quo regardless.

What absolute drivel. The collapse of any despotic, corrupt, nepotistic, cruel, paranoid regime would be like a bright new dawn for the chinese people.

I’m a first-time post-er as well.

June 16, 2005 @ 3:13 pm | Comment

I can’t see anyone buying Diary of a Madman nor any of Echo’s recomendations early in the thread.

June 16, 2005 @ 3:16 pm | Comment

Welcome, Ben. I think we’ll get along great.

June 16, 2005 @ 3:31 pm | Comment

blog city isn’t in china (i don’t think). hope they will be up soon! holding 5 day old rescue kitten so can’t type much now,,,

June 16, 2005 @ 3:50 pm | Comment

blog city back up in US

June 16, 2005 @ 3:54 pm | Comment

Great to hear they’re not in China and that they’re up again!!

How was today’s earthquake?

June 16, 2005 @ 4:05 pm | Comment

we felt it but nothing major (still holding tiny kitten)

June 16, 2005 @ 4:06 pm | Comment

Other Lisa, I was thinking of you the other day when I spotted in Shanghai a young guy wearing a Cramps t-shirt, complete with the face from the cover of “Bad Music for Bad People”! I doubt he had any idea who or what The Cramps were, but it made my day all the same.

My amazement matched the time I noticed a young woman wearing a t-shirt filled with English text, when I got closer I realized it was the lyrics from The Sisters of Mercy’s “Flood II”!

Refreshing sights in a world emblazoned with the message “Snoopy the world famous beagle”. ๐Ÿ™‚

Anyone else spot improbable rock references on the backs of PRC youth?

June 16, 2005 @ 6:32 pm | Comment

General begging request alert! I’m thinking of doing an audio blog-type thing sometimes next week, using interviews with my students, but I don’t have my own webspace. Is there anyone out there who has, any would be kind enough to host it on my behalf? I’d be very very grateful!

June 16, 2005 @ 6:54 pm | Comment

Slim, I have a great story. I was at the Drum Tower last year in Beijing. I always like that show. Those young guys seem to be having so much fun. It was their last show of the day and afterwards they come tumbling out and down the stairs, goofing around. And one of the sings out a line from “Smells like Teen Spirit.” So I responded with the next line. And he sang another. We totally cracked each other up.

June 16, 2005 @ 7:53 pm | Comment

i checked up and got these:
RIPE Network Coordination

and by the way
1643 *

oh, got so many details!

June 16, 2005 @ 8:11 pm | Comment

from a public database

June 16, 2005 @ 8:12 pm | Comment

Henry, what do those numbers mean?

June 16, 2005 @ 8:13 pm | Comment

Other Lisa, that’s funny! I wish I could find some local Shanghainese who knew who Nirvana was, much less be able to quote a song!

Down here in Shang-town young people aren’t much interested in any music but contemporary Hong Kong/Taiwanese pop. Lots of really hip-looking young people these days, but the spikey dyed hair, piercings and tattoos seem so out of synch with their musical culture. I guess it should be no surprise, given the fundamental differences in youth cultures producing the music.

But at least Beijing (and other cities)have a significant Chinese rock & punk culture, large enough to support bands, venues, and cd sales. Shanghai seems to have virtually none of this. ๐Ÿ™

June 16, 2005 @ 9:46 pm | Comment

BTW, I just got the J un g Ch@ng Mao biography. Did a quick look through (it’s very long). I don’t know that there are that many new things in it – some of the more prurient details I would bet come from Secret Life of Chairman Mao, I think they are using Chinese version of 10 Years of Storm, they have the Later Years of Zhou Enlai, etc., and I recognize a number of other sources (including one of my favorites, the Vladimirov diaries). And I’ve heard about things like the AB Campaign, etc.

But just on quick glance, it seems to go together well and things that never quite made sense in some histories are put in a context here that finally seems right.

I’ll give you all a real repeat when I read the thing. It does look like another one of those books that’s going to make me stay up late and shake my head and wonder why it is that people are so damned awful to each other. Tragedy upon tragedy.

June 16, 2005 @ 10:11 pm | Comment

I mean, a real review.

June 16, 2005 @ 10:12 pm | Comment

Here we are now…

June 16, 2005 @ 10:12 pm | Comment

these are server locations.

Other Lisa,Shanghai Slim
i love Nirvana too, espcial to Smells like Teen Spirit. a friend of mine went crazy to it and often sang loudly in dorm, what a nightmare, hehe.

June 16, 2005 @ 10:25 pm | Comment

China Hand, is there any chance you can post your NOrth Korea article anywhere that I can get to from China? I’d love to read it. Or maybe you could email it to, if you don’t mind.

June 16, 2005 @ 10:27 pm | Comment

richard : if you actually want a review let me know, I’ll try to put one together later this week.

ben : why wouldn’t people want to read the books?

on dashan : I think the reason he irritates me is that he reinforces an idea that I don’t much like, the one equating foreigners to trained monkeys. but, for perspective, I tend to take that idea too seriously, so.

blog-city : was down for a couple hours with an isp issue.

June 16, 2005 @ 11:34 pm | Comment

Entertain us!

Sorry, I took a break to go to the gym…

June 16, 2005 @ 11:45 pm | Comment

-> Foir Lu Xun they have some books called “Chinese Reader” – is that what you have in mind? Thanks.

nope ; ) lu xun is the guy who wrote diary of a madman and other stories. apologies for the ‘liu’ typo….I think there were others (fiction) but I can’t for the life of me remember what they were.

the two books waiting in my que by liu binyan are ‘china hopes, china dreams’ and ‘a higher kind of loyalty’. I have not read them as yet, so I perhaps shouldn’t be giving out recommendations. but here’s a snip from the back of the latter :

Liu Binyan’s autobiography is the gripping story of a journalist-writer who made the fatal mistake of trying to tell the truth in mao’s china. but it is not quite the now-familiar tale of torture and endless persecution, for there is a powerful stylistisc directness, a wealth of detailed observation, and the passionate humanity of a witness and victim of the most surrealist tyrany….despite everything is it a book of hope…. – arthur miller

June 16, 2005 @ 11:47 pm | Comment

hey, might as well plug my newborn blog while i am here. seems like everybody else is doing it, and my site’s only visitor so far has been myself, so, ya know…
let’s all see how long it’ll stay open!

June 17, 2005 @ 12:17 am | Comment

Kevin, welcome to the virtual watercooler! I’ll check out your blog right now.

June 17, 2005 @ 12:43 am | Comment

a lot of the things i write are… shall we say… much more childish and absurd than a lot of the things on your guys’ blogs, so if it’s not your thing, that’s allright!

June 17, 2005 @ 12:48 am | Comment

Listen, I’m pretty immature, so don’t worry about that. My one problem, as I mentioned on your blog, is that reading the white on red is kind of hard on my eyes. So I didn’t even get to the absurd stuff. Which I would like to do!

June 17, 2005 @ 1:07 am | Comment

i finally adjusted the colors so the blog is a little easier on the eyes. sorry, i am a complete idiot when it comes to computers, so it took me a little while to figure out those damn settings.

June 17, 2005 @ 1:39 am | Comment

FSL … I’ve replied to your response. Surely you could do better than that? I enjoy a good debate, but it’s getting to the point where all I can say is “can’t you work out for yourself what’s wrong with your argument?”

June 17, 2005 @ 2:34 am | Comment

Richard – pardon my ignorance … but with these Amazon buttons … how do they work? Presumably you get money if we follow the links and buy those books … do you also get money if we buy other books NOT listed on the left? Or what?

June 17, 2005 @ 2:35 am | Comment

I think Richard will be in bed now. My mate has an Amazon link on her website and she told me that all books purchased via her general Amazon Search link she receives a few US cents and not only the higlighted book titles.

I’m fairly sure about this or I wouldn’t dare to answer on Richards behalf.

June 17, 2005 @ 2:57 am | Comment

I just searched for “books china” on the Amazon Search link and I saw “thepekingduck” in the address bar so I think the search link is tied to TPD account.

June 17, 2005 @ 3:00 am | Comment

Dr. Filthy:

What books are you thinking of purchasing? Anything interesting?

I can’t tremember if it was you or kevin that recommended China Inc. but I just finished it. Great read. I really enjoyed it.

June 17, 2005 @ 3:04 am | Comment

Apologies for the length of today’s post. Bit of a word splurge I’m afraid!

June 17, 2005 @ 3:22 am | Comment

Slim, pete, Gordon, davesgonechina or any other China resident:

Have any of you lot ever ordered a book from Amazon while you’ve been in China?

Years ago, I ordered my first Xbox (I’m a games fanatic–ahem) from Amazon US when I lived in Beijing and it got stuck at the airport.

I had to take a taxi to the airport, find the relevant cargo warehouse, go through endless security checks, fill out some forms, produce copies of my passport and then stand and watch as a customs guy examined the contents of my parcel, even asking what “Halo” was.

Ever since that palaver, I’ve always bought my books in Hong Kong or Bangkok but I’d gladly jump at the chance to have books and cool Xbox add-ons delivered to my door in Guangzhou.

However, I’m hesitant because the next book I will order is Jung Ch**g’s Mao book.

Can anyone help? I’m sitting here credit card in hand.

June 17, 2005 @ 3:29 am | Comment

wow, I’m amazed you got the xbox. iirc it’s actually illegal to send electronics into china, even if they are gifts/personal use. particularly anything with network capabilities that might contain encryption stuff…

if you tried to order electronics from amazon now you’d get an error message asking you to please use a non-china address. they’ve got a list (under international shipping somewhere) that tells you exactly what can and cannot be shiped.

books are no problem. for that matter, banned books appear to be no problem…

June 17, 2005 @ 5:32 am | Comment

Echo, I really appreciate that. Thanks.

So Xbox’s shouldn’t be shipped into China? Would that explain why it was held at the airport then?

Mind you nowadays isn’t like it was then, Guangzhou now has Haiyin Electronics Plaza down near the river just off Shamian Island. It’s a veritable Dante’s Inferno of Xbox’s, PS2’s and every single electronic item manufactured in China and beyond.

I bought my 2nd Xbox there, I wanted a South Korean Xbox modified with an EvoX chip. I got exactly that within 15 mins of arriving! You’ve gotta respect the Cantonese.

I’ll be sure to check out Amazon’s international shipping list as well.

Ok, I’m going to order Jung Ch*ng’s new book on The Peking Duck link now. I’ll let you know when it arrives safely.

Thanks again Echo.

June 17, 2005 @ 5:45 am | Comment

I’ve gotten some books through Amazon delivered to China that I didn’t think would make it through… and friends have ordered books from Amazon that never made it. Luck of the draw, seems to me.

As for the Xbox, they’ve had ’em here in Urumqi for a while – including a few of those funky Japanese special edition sets. How those got out here, I have no idea…

June 17, 2005 @ 5:58 am | Comment

I really only know about the encryption end of things, and that is a bit old at this point. I’d be interested, though, if anyone knows how much it’s changed…

might be the reason it was held at the airport…wanted to make sure it was going to an american. for all I know there’s a loophole for sending us tech to us citizens. but you can’t to the best of my knowledge send us tech to chinese citizens.

also, the xbox has network play, right? (my non-computer tech ignorance rears) it’s possible there’s encryption used for that. the xboxes etc you see are likely slightly different than the ones in the states.

software as of a few years ago had different encryption for foreign and domestic sale. in the us your internet explorer used 128 bit strong encryption, but there was a different version for distribution in china (and actually all other non-us countries), where iirc the highest encryption was 64 (or 32?) bit.

when freepgp went global (a long time ago now) they arrested the author/distributor for exporting illegal tech. I guess the nsa doesn’t like it when they can’t break the other guy’s code.

so on the us side you’ve probably still got some (paranoid) laws in place. and I’d be willing to bet that somewhere in the mix is something about taxes and trade regulation. which seems silly when applied to a small scale, but a lot of laws tend to get a bit silly.

when you enter china they are supposed to check all your electronics and give you a form, then when you leave they check and make sure you still have all the items. I’m not sure which country this is necessary for.

then again, there’s no tech in golf balls, but you can’t send them to china unless you’re the manufacturer or authorized middleman. I have no idea why this is.

June 17, 2005 @ 6:16 am | Comment

Thanks as well davesgonechina, that’s brilliant. I’ve made my mind up, I’m going to order the JChang book via the Amazon link.

I’m a Brit not an American, Echo, so I don’t think that Us-tech to US-ren loophole applies.

Please excuse my dreadful geekery below.

Xbox (like PS2) is Net-enabled with the relevant encryption codes, however, the PS2 has far more regional digital-recognition technology built into the hardware than the Xbox as the ‘box’s core markets are the US/Europe where software piracy hardly exisits and the PS2’s is THE console in Asia.

However, as soon as I received my Xbox, I fitted an EXectuor chip into it to allow me to play pirated games. This means that I would be instantly surrounded by an Xbox SWAT Team if I ever tried to log-on to Xbox Live on the Internet!

Davesgonechina, 10 years ago all console stuff was sourced from HK until they started making PS2s and Xbox in China. However, as far as I know some consoles are not legally released in China PRC as piracy is so bad they wouldn’t make any money.

June 17, 2005 @ 6:40 am | Comment

what’s the difference between a pirated game and a legal copy? hardware? a drm that can’t be replicated? how would a chip combat that?

is this too off topic, even for an open thread?

(sorry, what can I say, I’m a geek….but more one who can understand what they talk about on slashdot than one who scores 5 for informative ; )

June 17, 2005 @ 6:50 am | Comment

I heard a great story a few months back regarding Chinese complaints about a computer game where the player could choose to nuke Washington, London, Beijing etc as it was a strategy war game.

“Images of Tiana**en Skware should not be sullied by foreigners dropping bombs on it” I remember reading.

Some Chinese gamers had whipped up a storm in a teacup on the Internet encouraging a nationwide boycott of the game.

The developer of the game was contacted and asked for a response to the Chinese complaints.

The developers replied that the game was never released in China and therefore did not legally exist there.

The Chinese gamers were complaining about pirated copies.

Only in China.

June 17, 2005 @ 6:52 am | Comment


There’s little difference between a real and pirated game, perhaps apart from the little hologram on real games.

Modifier chips intercept the internal validation checks/codes which are carried out and confirms that the CD in the console is valid for that operating region.

The newer anti-piracy mechanisms (DRM/SVP) are already being stripped down to their boxer shorts as I write.

Sony was, until recently, facing the fact that without somekind of CD copy protection scheme, they would simply not make any money by manufacturing the Playstation (all versions).

What they’ve just come up with is the idea of writing zeros for Sectors 12 through 15 on all Sony Playstation CDs. (an EDC/ECC checksum that is all zeros i.e 0000000000).

No CD writer will write zeros to the checksum because the CD writer will try to “fix” the CD by writing the relevant checksum. Therefore, the pirated CD will not be able to be played in a Playstation. At least that’s the idea.

June 17, 2005 @ 7:35 am | Comment

Hmmmm, bit of a conversation-killer, that last post.

Sorry people!

June 17, 2005 @ 7:36 am | Comment

Yes martyn, that last post of yours is the party equivilent of “Hi, how are you, I’m born-again!”

Guaranteed to empty a room!! hahaha.

June 17, 2005 @ 7:50 am | Comment

Ok, Paul mate, I’ll give you that one.

Echo, I bloke I unfortunately know in Guangzhou who used to work for Microsoft Germany reckons that the new generation consoles (PS3 + Xbox 360) will be impossible to play pirated disks.

(Paul, I’m talking about Boring Michael).

I don’t believe him but he said that China specifically and Asia generally were driving the game divisions of Sony, Microsoft into bankcruptcy and they reacted by spending billions and thousands of man-hours on anti-piracy initiatives..

June 17, 2005 @ 8:13 am | Comment

martyn, rockin explination, many thanks.

but paul, you don’t have to use our tech, you can use any tech you want : )

every time a company comes out with something ‘unhackable’ someone hacks it. I think unhackable probably has ‘illusory’ somewhere in the definition.

someone should probably tell sony and mocrosoft that if they stopped spending billions on anti-piracy they’d probably stop losing so much money ๐Ÿ˜‰

June 17, 2005 @ 8:40 am | Comment

Haha, yes, well, that’s certainly one way of looking at it I suppose.

I’ve got 200 Xbox games. All apart from 1 pirated, so I’m hardly going to take the moral high-ground on the issue. RMB7 each, less than a US Dollar.

June 17, 2005 @ 8:53 am | Comment

What would china be like without copy dvds, cds and software? What a awful thought.

I should buy a games system and take advatage of where I live.

Martyn, what would you recommend a xbox or playstation? How much are the games? Are they available everywhere in china?

June 17, 2005 @ 9:00 am | Comment

speaking of which…I wonder why it is that a (legal) dvd costs 20 bucks in the us but only 35 kuai in china…

June 17, 2005 @ 9:48 am | Comment

I found that even “legitimate” DVDs I bought in China were fakes as well, even the ones sold in the Xinhua bookstores. They just put them in nice boxes.

Anything you buy using the Amazon search tool on Peking Duck will result in my earning a few pennies. So please, help me out if you can! I really appreciate it.

I’m not happy with the way the Amazon book ads look. Is there a Web designer in the house? (I like the way this blogger has his Amazon books listed – very powerful.) And I’d love to move the books into the right margin so I can keep my blogroll high on the page….

As stated earlier, all book reviews are welcome. Please, bring ’em on, as our leader would say.

June 17, 2005 @ 11:19 am | Comment

You are right, that blogger’s Amazon books design is very ‘in your face’ and the book covers are large enough to easily read.

Richard, your front page is so long that you could have a nice long list of book current and classic China books. Also, international affairs books.

June 17, 2005 @ 12:01 pm | Comment

Ben, I can even make it longer if I wanted (though the long I make it the longer it will take to load, especially if I have a lot of photos and graphics). Now I just need some help doing the HTML to make it look as good as Billmon’s site.

June 17, 2005 @ 12:15 pm | Comment

Filthy, I just posted back on the other section but this time forgot to acknowledge your “abilities to see through propaganda and bollocks.” sorry, I know this is important to you.

June 17, 2005 @ 12:22 pm | Comment

Good luck with the HTML Richard, let’s hope someone helps. Isn’t John/Sinosplice a bit of a whizz with the old computer?

That billmon site does looks great like.


Re Xbox/PS2, pros and cons I suppose.

Xbox is about 20% more powerful than PS2 and the pirated games nearly always work as the machine has little anti-piracy recognition hardware.

However, the Xbox is the size of a breeze-block and twice as heavy.

PS2 is less than an inch thick and weighs only a few ounces so is very portable. More games than the Xbox but the various anti-piracy barriers make the pirated disks very sensitive so a minority won’t work.

Very rough prices in China, X=RMB1,200, PS2=RMB1,000. PS2 games RMB5 each. X games RMB7-8 each.

As davesgonechina says, they’re available in Urumuqi so I guess that means everywhere.

June 17, 2005 @ 12:28 pm | Comment

Hello KLS, good trip?

June 17, 2005 @ 12:29 pm | Comment

trip was as expected Martyn, a whole lot of boozing which I’m paying for now. Hope I didn’t make an alcohol-fueled tit of myself in front of anyone, but may start getting hot flush flashbacks to embarassing moments over the next few days.
by the way I had no problem getting amazon stuff to china about 4 or 5 years ago, but it was pretty innocuous stuff, nothing to titilate customs.

June 17, 2005 @ 12:49 pm | Comment

hey, I know this is not so much off-topic as off-blog, but can anyone recommend anything readable and sustantial about North Korea?

June 17, 2005 @ 12:51 pm | Comment

Aquariums of Pyongyang is supposed to be good, and for a general history, I’ve heard good things about “under the loving care of the fatherly leader”

still looking after week old kitten and only have one hand free

June 17, 2005 @ 1:41 pm | Comment


Jasper Becker (a brilliant author in my opinion and writer of The Chinese of course) recently wrote Rogue Regime: Kim Jong Il and the Looming Threat of North Korea.

According to what I read, he spent years researching this book.

I’m almost finished it and would highly recommend it. Please don’t don’t let the title put you off, it very much concentrates on North Korea itself rather than the threat of North Korea.

It isn’t some right-wing regime-change rubbish of a book put it that way.

June 17, 2005 @ 2:32 pm | Comment

Thanks Allan, I can see the book on Amazon and will order it.
But Richard, I don’t think I can order it via the Amazon on your site, unfortunately, because I am in the UK and use amazon’s UK site.
can anyone suggest a solution?

June 17, 2005 @ 2:55 pm | Comment

Richard, you need to open 2 Amazon accounts, one for US and one for UK.

June 17, 2005 @ 3:06 pm | Comment

Forget it Allan, the wouldn’t mail me the checks from the UK.

June 17, 2005 @ 3:07 pm | Comment

Buggers! My own countrymen doing something like that.

Hey, KLS, you’ll just have to do the right thing and have it sent from the States! It’ll be just as quick and probably cheaper!

June 17, 2005 @ 3:13 pm | Comment


June 17, 2005 @ 3:34 pm | Comment

Right, time for bed as I’m in China as it’s 6 in the morning. Peking Duck should come with a health warning as I should have been in bed hours ago.

Great discussions guys! Great topics Richard! See all tomorrow!

June 17, 2005 @ 4:25 pm | Comment

Richard, re your ‘crushing loss of face comment’ in the title of this thread, is 138 comments in 2 and a bit days enough to save face!!!

June 17, 2005 @ 4:59 pm | Comment

John, I feel a lot better. The last thread only got about 50 comments total, and I spent a sleepless night wondering about my inadequacies and failures.

June 17, 2005 @ 5:09 pm | Comment

Wow, 150 comments, this really is starting to feel like an online community!

I’ve just posted a long piece on the revolutions in Eastern Europe in 1989, and a short one back on the subject of China and Japan, if anyone’s interested.

June 17, 2005 @ 6:48 pm | Comment

Interested! Hey it’s Saturday.

June 17, 2005 @ 7:33 pm | Comment

Any DVD for less that US$1.00 equivalent is probably fake in China and HK. Even the more expensive ones could be also as it would mean more profit.

June 17, 2005 @ 8:23 pm | Comment

This thread is now over the legal limit and I’m going to open a new one in a minute. Please regroup.

June 17, 2005 @ 8:26 pm | Comment

KLS, I can’t be bothered. Write something worth responding to please.

June 19, 2005 @ 5:18 am | Comment

I dont see why foreigners in China should
dislike Dashan. In my opinion he’s very good
doing what he is doing, has great personality,
etc. Dashan is one fortunate person in this world who was at the right place at the right time. If he had made a fortune doing what he is doing is there anything wrong? He’s one heck of a guy I should say. No more hanging him again!

November 15, 2005 @ 6:45 pm | Comment

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.