New thread

How is that for a creative title? I’m going to transplant Patrick’s latest comment to the previous thread and hopefully it will jump-start the conversation.

The Discussion: 93 Comments

Sorry it took so long to get back to this regarding my observations of students. I believe there is a confound in what I observed because start-up entrepreneurship involving something utterly novel is quite different from being a boss. Both could be entrepreneurs but the former one is much more risky. I believe all Chinese would report that they aspire to be a “boss” but much fewer would strike out as a start-up entrepreneur. In the US the Chinese are very entrepreneurial (a recent dissertation showed they are second only to Koreans) but I think there is a selection bias in that the ones who emigrate the the US, for whatever reason, tend to be much more “entrepreneurial” in nature. The relevance to the discussion is that, from a macro-perspective, the constant churning of start-up ventures is a market system’s “fire” of innovation. From this, one can say that public policy or cultural values supporting entrepreneurship and all that it entails is an important part of a system that is adaptable (should the broader environment change unpredictably). As for my own experience, there is an incubator for entrepreneurial high-tech ventures near Peking University that I visited. And I have a colleague who is an e’ship faculty member at Tsinghua. Just my take, but it is not clear to me that the ventures receiving funding or support are the most obviously viable ones. Inefficient ventures appear to take a long time to be deposed and something like personal relationships may figure into the equation when seeking funding (rather than highly promising newcomers who really deserve support because they offer a novel way to address an inefficiency). Contracts and agreements around venture capital are also tricky when they dictate spending resources in a certain way, i.e., they tend not to mean very much (even if they are signed). It’s a very interesting domain for one who studies e’ship. From an anthropological perspective, how Chinese e’neurs handle uncertainty in e’neurial contexts (where challenging the unknown is the norm) is vastly different from the west. I had a conversation once with a very sharp graduate student in Guanghua Management School once, and we talked a lot about how Chinese v. Westerners more or less are able to separate (a) ideas from (b) people themselves. I.e., Chinese closely mingle the two. It makes it tricky in an e’neurial context where e’neurs must be prepared to fail much and let so many start-up ventures and ideas die in their stead. Just my thoughts sorry for the long post.

As an aside, I am new here but have been amazed at some of the posts. Brilliant and rich stuff.

September 12, 2005 @ 5:56 pm | Comment

I think it must be a product of environment. Chinese need to be entrepreneurial in the U.S. if they want live the American dream and there are so many things that they
do by simply acting as a bridge between the U.S. and China. On the other hand, I find Shanghaiers less entrepreneurial than any other Chinese I know. For a town that is an up and coming business hub this seems strange to me.

September 12, 2005 @ 6:17 pm | Comment

I really don’t know the dynamics of Chinese entrepreneurialism, but I think that there’s no doubting the Chinese display nearly unequalled entrepreneurial skill and ambition wherever they go, be it Indonesia or California. Isn;t thatr true in China, as well?

Contrary to what Derrick writes, I had always heard the Shanghainese are among the most entrepreneurial, which helps explain why the Hong Kongers live and breathe entrepreneurialism. On the other hand, the Singaporean Chinese seem to shy away from this spirit, their nanny government raising them to believe it’s not necessary.

Wherever I went, in Yunnan and Shanghai and Beijing, the cities and the suburbs, I thought I saw evidence of entrepreneurship — so many small businesses, so many involved in distributing sheet metal and parts and equipment. How this meshes with Patrick’s theories about Chinese preferring to be a boss than a start-up entrepreneur I can’t poretend to understand. I do know that once Deng lifted restrictions, there was perhaps the greatest entrepreneurial mad dash of all history as millions of Chinese flocked to start new businesses, many enjoying spectacular success. So for me, some aspect of this equation seems to be missing.

Sorry, my observations don’t lend any new light on the topic at hand but just raise more questions. I’d love to have a better understanding of the answers.

September 12, 2005 @ 6:47 pm | Comment

Richard,

I would say I’ve seen the entrepeneurship as well. But thinking about it, there seems to be a large bifurcation of the group. There are lots of small business that can support a family or two. But it seems that they don’t get (or even aim) much further than that. The other group is the one that got funding from somewhere, and plops down a massive store.

There aren’t many walmart stories in China, I think. The closest it comes is Guomei. But even with that, he had to court a lot of attention from the state and independent funders. The big growth companies in the states usually attracted these investors because of their efficiency or track record. In China, it still depends largely on guanxi.

I think China will get there… eventually. The stock and private equity market needs to get cleaned up.

September 12, 2005 @ 7:15 pm | Comment

Good points, Sean. All those new businesses I saw were indeed of the “mom and pop” variety – but they were still thriving businesses these people created.

And good luck with getting the stock/equities markets cleaned up. Talk about dens of iniquity.

September 12, 2005 @ 8:08 pm | Comment

It might be the difference between mercantilism and entrepreneurialism. Of course it’s entrepreneurial any time you start a business, but entrepreneurship in the modern American sense – risk capitalizing a business yourself with the specific aim of growing it – seems less common here (or perhaps just less celebrated). Maybe it’s the risk element that is the problem. I certainly think it’s the problem in Singapore, which is culturally risk averse in many ways, although it does have its share of entrepreneurs.

But also, the modern tradition of privately owned business in China is really short. So perhaps it just needs time.

September 12, 2005 @ 8:16 pm | Comment

I can’t disagree with what Richard wrote about seeing many small businesses; it is a valid point. Sean’s point about the bifurcation (small businesses v. corporations) can help me clarify my point a bit. His point reveals that “growth” or a growth orientation is a defining feature of an entrepreneurial venture. if it doesn’t grow and evolve (like an organism), it’s a small business, and there are differences. Ent ventures must evolve and they generate new opportunities and open the way to new discoveries ad infinitum. They are wrought with uncertainty. A small business is different because it depends on something outside of it, frequently something like an inefficiency created by a large corporation (hauling sheet metal to / from a factory). So if the big corporation goes away, or if the market or environment changes, the small business may die. I agree that the Chinese are excellent at founding small businesses that are stable and often thriving. I do not totally agree that the Chinese culture and system supports e’neurial activity that generates new innovations that open the way to new and unforeseen innovations and new ventures based on them. I don’t mean to make a value judgment at all; personally, I love America and China (just trying to be clear here). However, I do not think entrepreneurship (as I have defined it) fits very well in Chinese culture currently (other evidence includes availability of small business loans or programs for entrepreneurs by the government).

September 12, 2005 @ 8:16 pm | Comment

Hi there, I know this is completely off-topic, but I thought you might be interested in this news from Singapore. Two bloggers were arrested yesterday for allegedly making racist remarks on websites. They were charged under Singapore’s Sedition Act for acting in a manner that threatened national security.

Links here:

http://diodati.omniscientx.com/_wiki/BloggersChargedWithSedition

September 12, 2005 @ 8:42 pm | Comment

Patrick, are you saying that innovation is an important part of entrepreneurship? If so, I think I can understand what you’re getting at.

I know lots of Chinese businessmen who have started up their own companies here in the mainland, but all of those companies have just copied someone else’s idea. None of the companies has found a new market/product/service.

Possibly this kind of business start-up is much more common than one which is using new technology/products/services?

September 12, 2005 @ 9:13 pm | Comment

Has anyone heard any of the reports about President Hu Jintao being shot while on his trip to Mexico?

I just saw a short snippit on CNN2.

September 12, 2005 @ 10:08 pm | Comment

I just checked a number of news sites, not a word about Hu being shot. That would be front-page news.

September 12, 2005 @ 10:13 pm | Comment

Testing

September 12, 2005 @ 11:00 pm | Comment

This is not a good idea.

September 12, 2005 @ 11:02 pm | Comment

He’s your president….

September 12, 2005 @ 11:15 pm | Comment

Oh damn, you’re right. Let’s just go and nuke all the terrorist states.

September 12, 2005 @ 11:35 pm | Comment

To echo dishuiguanyin’s remarks, I agree that there is a very great deal of entrepreneurship going on, at least here in Shanghai where new businesses pop up (and disappear) with amazing rapidity. However, what you don’t see much of is innovation. When a new business opens, it is usually just a copy of some other business.

It’s hard to think of the last time I passed a storefront and thought “Wow, I’ve never seen that kind of business in Shanghai before”, or “That’s a different take on an XYZ”. It happens, but not very often.

I think there are plenty of reasons to explain this, most of them pretty obvious, such as a social and education system that rewards conformity and discourages originality, only very recent arrival of modern free market capitalism, risk aversion, preference for short-term profits, advantages of quick, portable businesses in a rapidly-changing urban envrionment, etc.

If a few basic variables were to change, there could be unleashed a tremendous force. For now, the entrepreneurial spirit seems to be channeled mainly into familiar models such as building supply stores, small clothing boutiques, eateries, net bars and the like.

September 12, 2005 @ 11:41 pm | Comment

THIS JUST IN:
“The beauty products from the skin of executed Chinese prisoners ”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1568467,00.html

“Agents for the firm have told would-be customers it is developing collagen for lip and wrinkle treatments from skin taken from prisoners after they have been shot. The agents say some of the company’s products have been exported to the UK, and that the use of skin from condemned convicts is “traditional” and nothing to “make such a big fuss about”.”

September 13, 2005 @ 4:22 am | Comment

This can’t be true, surely, surely?!

Thanks for the link Kier. I’ll check it out now.

September 13, 2005 @ 4:37 am | Comment

Talk about entrepreneurship!

September 13, 2005 @ 4:38 am | Comment

Good god, my stomach is turning. Thanks very much for this Kier, I want to turn this almost unbelievable story into a post if that’s alright.

September 13, 2005 @ 4:42 am | Comment

Talk about entrepreneurship!

Ha! And high marks for innovation as well! ๐Ÿ™‚

September 13, 2005 @ 9:36 am | Comment

But Chinese aren’t racist….

September 13, 2005 @ 10:18 am | Comment

About Gordon’s link, I have personally encountered plenty of so-called “non-existent” Chinese racism. I would say most people on the planet are racist — or, rather, I should say that the plurality of people that I have encountered in my personal experience are racist. As a society, China is more racist than the parts of Europe and the US where I have lived. That is just my experience. If you doubt it, go marry a Chinese girl (as I did). When we are together and have met Chinese (in China and in the US), we’ve run into some unbelievable situations, comments, and sneers.

My wife instantly gets treated differently once Chinese find out she married a laowai. It has happened countless times with colleagues, friends, and acquaintances.

And no, I’m not talking about some idiotic left-wing PC academic version of “racism” which Americans sniff out at every opportunity.

September 13, 2005 @ 12:12 pm | Comment

Hmmm, I don’t really think what you have experienced is racism. Don’t know how to put it, it is probably more like a language/culture gap that need to be filled first before people will feel comfortable.

For example, we just had a block party in our community. At the party, you will see Americans banding in a group, Chinese another, and then there another group of Indians. Are we all racists? Nope, but it is easier to talk to people with similar backgrounds.

September 13, 2005 @ 3:44 pm | Comment

What you’re describing at the block party isn’t racism at all, it’s human nature. What Hmmm is describing is, I’m afraid, racism, and it’s not at all unique to the Chinese. Everyone really is racist to some degree. But a sign of emotional maturity, education and an open mind is the ability to recognize one’s racism and be able to put it to the side, even if it means forcibly cconfronting it and making a conscious decision not to let it rule you. In this regard, the Chinese have a way to go, and often, without even realizing it, they can appear quite racist to an outsider. This is not surprising considering their relative lack of exposure to minority groups in China. This is one more thing that should, I hope, improve over time.

September 13, 2005 @ 3:57 pm | Comment

Nanny tells me that the comments section on the “Beauty Product” thread does not exist. It’s only on that one thread; all the others work.

Thank you, Nanny, for protecting me! Oh where would my weak little brain BE without the Communist Party to tell me exactly what to think? It’s like having a Pope with Chinese Characteristics.

September 13, 2005 @ 9:22 pm | Comment

Ivan, that is totally bizarre? Is the Nanny really that discriminating??

September 13, 2005 @ 9:28 pm | Comment

If you doubt it, go marry a Chinese girl (as I did). When we are together and have met Chinese (in China and in the US), we’ve run into some unbelievable situations, comments, and sneers.

Hmmm, I think it’d be useful if you could give some specific examples of what sort of thing you encountered that might clarify how it is different from Wawa’s block party.

I can certainly offer some myself, having had several friends from Ghana at my university in Urumqi. I witnessed nasty comments in Chinese, along the lines of black being dirty, etc. and worse, as well as a very different stare than the one I, a white male, would get. A stare of contempt and disgust. Plain overt racism.

And if that weren’t enough, I had independent confirmation from Chinese, Uighur and foreign sources that in one incident young men at a restaurant threw small stones at some African students… you know, the way a kid might poke a dog with a stick.

OK, that’s Xinjiang. People there can be incredibly ignorant of the ways of the world; not an excuse at all, I just mean I’m not talking about or passing judgment on Shanghai or other parts of China. But I’ve heard stories that similar issues exist in other parts of China.

From an academic perspective, I’d point to elements in late Qing and Republican Chinese historical and political theory that were straight out social darwinism. They kinda racialized the fact that the Western empires were cutting the country up, which is understandable but regrettable. China definitely didn’t have a monopoly on that kind of thinking, but as Frank Dikotter (mentioned on Gordon’s site by Gorik), Dru Gladney, Prasenjit Duara and others have pointed out, Chinese scholars played with social Darwinism and you still find those notions all over the place.

In Xinjiang the worst was the Uighurs being racist, since they were the victims of discrimination themselves. It was like watching an abused child grow up to be an abusive parent. You wanted to slap ’em, shake ’em and scream at ’em.

September 13, 2005 @ 10:40 pm | Comment

Well I think bizarrely selective censorship happens because Nanny is NOT discriminating. The censors really don’t know what the hell they’re doing. They’re like half-literate chimpanzees, half-randomly blocking things which cue some kind of crudely learned stimuli.

September 14, 2005 @ 12:23 am | Comment

Ivan’s right Richard, the latter half of the Cosmetics are a Con thread won’t open and if I try and push the issue then the nanny gets even more nasty and won’t let me open anything.

It’s to do with the content of some of the later posts. It happened before when you were away. davesgonechina listed some books he bought and I couldn’t open the thread. Lisa changed a c0u1pe of the p0litically inc0rrect titles and it was ok again.

September 14, 2005 @ 3:09 am | Comment

Note: “Dave” is Madge, and yesterday he poted three comments under the name “Derrick” here, all leading readers to Madge material (of course), as he’s doing now. So much fun to catch him playing the same exact game literally every day. (No not fun at all, really – tireless and a thoroughly stupid waste of my time.)

September 14, 2005 @ 3:41 am | Comment

Cosmetics from prisoners thread back to normal. Thanks.

September 14, 2005 @ 4:05 am | Comment

Martyn,

Thanks for corraborating. Yeah, it was like, whenever I tried the “Cosmetics” thread, it would shut down and then ALL of TPD would become inaccessible until I restarted the computer.

Now let me test it again, now that you say it’s fixed…..

September 14, 2005 @ 4:10 am | Comment

Back from testing the Cosmetics thread. Yep, it’s working for me too, in my part of China.

September 14, 2005 @ 4:11 am | Comment

Dave,

What, you say Madge is also “Derrick?” Funny, many years ago I had a summer job and I worked with a guy named “Derrick” who was caught masturbating on the job……

September 14, 2005 @ 4:15 am | Comment

His latest aliases are Helen, Stan, Derrick Owens and, lastly, Dave. They are so easy to spot. He usually puts in an intentional typo to indicates it’s “off the cuff.” Then he/she makes a comment about how this is the first time they’ve ever been to Peking Duck, and then they go on and on, Jones-style, about how they just read this mahhhhvelous post by Jones somewhere else and you simply cannot know what god and man is until you see Jones’ sublime structural analysis. Common sense begs the question, of course, how did they end up on Peking Duck discussing this crap (as opposed to leaving their comments where they read the sublime structuralist article) and why do all these different people follow the pattern, quite odd for first time (or any) readers: all are obsessed with 6-syllable words, the kinds used by precocious teenagers in the debate club, all share a small pool of IP addresses that changes periodically, and each one, though he spotted a minor disagreement in Jones’ writings, is thunderstruck that he was lucky enough to have discovered Jones’ work. They are so thrilled, they have to share it with all my readers! And they don’t just write about it – they give the link, or allude to it by the time and date it was posted, and where. Just in case anyone has trouble finding Jones’ brilliant cut-and-pastes.

Yeah, I know, it’s funny. But when I have someone devovting so much time to playing games with me, after repeated promises never to bother me again, it moves from flattering to creepy.

September 14, 2005 @ 4:28 am | Comment

Ivan, I’m surprised you have to restart your computer in order to get things back to normal after a slap-on-the-wrist from the Nanny. That’s a hassle.

I just have to close my connection then re-connect to the www.

I’ve heard that this kind of stuff is different depending on where one lives in the motherland.

September 14, 2005 @ 4:41 am | Comment

HAHA! Hey Richard, about what you just wrote about “MAHvelous Madge” and his solipsistic fans spun out of his masturbatory cranium:

Do you remember the Monty Python sketch where Eric Idle would impersonate David Frost (the 1970s TV talk-show host, for anyone here who is too young to remember), and he would get on his knees and grovel and grovel about how wonderful the guest was, and say things like:
“A man, whose dung I am not worthy to look at!”

And then from offstage someone shouted: “He’s not here!” And then the host replied, contemptuously:
“Ah, sod him, he’s not all he’s cracked up to be.”

September 14, 2005 @ 4:47 am | Comment

Precious; and damn, you have a good memory!

September 14, 2005 @ 4:58 am | Comment

Martyn,

Thanks for the tip. Actually I’m in one of the most open cities in the mainland. Next time Nanny slaps me I’ll just restart the internet.

I’ve heard that in some parts of China, even CCTV-9 is blocked. Seriously. Can’t confirm it from experience though.

I just have a hard time imagining why any meta-censors would want to meta-censor the news on CCTV-9 about how all of the Happy Chinese People of Tibet are Very Happy in their Happy Life under the Correct Leadership of the CCP and Maozedong-Dengxiaoping-Jiangzemin Thought.

September 14, 2005 @ 5:01 am | Comment

Did anyone notice thos photos of MAJ’s girlfriend? She looks like the typical gold digger that is often found in Shenzhen. Kinda reminds me of one of those Singapore girls…

Too bad she fell for the old “fools gold” trick.

September 14, 2005 @ 7:49 am | Comment

I see “Sean” and “Seana” and “Seannita” – the names of the three prior commenters – all have the same email address.

Looks like troll meat to me.

Ah, Richard, sorry if I’m being overly zealous in defending your website. But as you know, I’m half Russian, and so I have deep instincts about defending against hostile invaders…. ๐Ÿ™‚

September 14, 2005 @ 7:52 am | Comment

PS, sorry to get emotional here, but I especially want MAJ to hear this:

Richard is my friend, and if you f— with him, you f— with me.

And, MAJ, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE! And I know all about your bad “habits”, so to speak. And what about those girls? I think some Chinese girls remember you, and they can tell some stories about you, MAJ.

MAJ, I give you a warning. I am a lawyer, and the next time I see any hint of you on TPD, I will use the laws of CHINA to make your life Hell.

Do you hear me, MAJ? I know who you are. So just fuck off now, and do NOT come to TPD again, unless you want some REAL trouble from a Russian who has no mercy on anyone who attacks my friends……..

…MAJ, if you EVER come to TPD again, under ANY name, then I will send you to the mercy of the CHINESE police – who will ENJOY beating the shit out of you after they find out what you have been doing – and then may God have mercy on your soul after they take you into prison…..

…so you can just fuck off now if you know what’s good for you, MAJ.

September 14, 2005 @ 8:44 am | Comment

I was sure ‘Math’ was Madge- their writing style is identical.

September 14, 2005 @ 8:45 am | Comment

Careful, Ivan; now he’ll say my site encourages violence and threats and strongarming and blackmail. But I appreciate the concern. Thanks a lot for alerting me and others to the suspicious nature of those comments. Exact same formula and strategy: get everyone curious, then give them the name of a specific website they need to go to and, voila, suddenly he has readership! The funny thing about his site is that he started it with comments open and, after only 2 innocuous comments (not by me; I don’t write innocuous comments) he deleted them and completely closed all comments. This, from the scholar who insists each comment is sacred and eternal, except if it criticizes the CCP, in which case it makes one’s blog a “hate site.” On the homepage, there are no fewer than 9 separate photos of Madge. In the post on Tianjin, there are no fewer than 48 separate references to the pronoun “I” – in other words, this blog is about one thing and one thing only. My suggestion for its title would be The Incontinent Narcissist.

September 14, 2005 @ 8:55 am | Comment

Keir, I don’t think Math was Mark, who usually uses a similar set of IP addresses. But you never know and I sure wouldn’t put it past him.

September 14, 2005 @ 8:56 am | Comment

Ah, yes, Richard, I will accept your warning to me about how what I say here could be mistaken for a threat.
I apologize to you, Richard, for letting my passionate Russian spirit get a bit out of control here, about MAJ.

But still, I think, MAJ should know, that some people in China and in Russia and in Central Asia know who he is. Some rather – um – “rude” people and well connected people know who MAJ is, I am sorry to say.

And so, I think, the best thing for MAJ to do, is just to go away. It will make it all so much more simple, and more peaceful, if MAJ just goes away and never comes back to TPD again.

Personally – as for me – I will NEVER threaten ANYone here, with violence. But still, I think it will be better for MAJ, for him just to go away and never come back to TPD.

September 14, 2005 @ 9:33 am | Comment

Major weapons cache, ‘spy Drone’ found: Operation in N. Waziristan

http://www.dawn.com/2005/09/14/top5.htm

The Chinese-made remote-piloted vehicle was used by militants to spy on army movements and positions in the region, the corps commander said.
——————————————–
Sounds scary doesn’t it? Go look at the picture, it’s a foam RC airplane anyone can buy at Walmart.

I guess “RTF” really means “Ready To Fight”.

September 14, 2005 @ 4:51 pm | Comment

I think mainlanders are entrepeneurial but don’t channel their energies into innovation since the system doesn’t reward it yet with the whole IPO/cashing out on the dumb money scene. Instead, they concentrate on leveraging the guanxi related advantages–cheap capital, legal impunity, etc.–available to people who are bold, creative, and ruthless in this sphere. More 19th century capitalism, like JP Morgan consolidating the steel industry. I think 21st century US innovation as symbolized by the Internet bubble and DrKoop MD dot com is not necessarily the gold standard for social progrewss powered by economic activity. Even if it also gave us the Internet and this kicky website.

September 14, 2005 @ 8:17 pm | Comment

Ivan-
How did you find out this info about Madge? And where can I find those photos of his girlfriend he keeps mentioning by name?

September 14, 2005 @ 8:29 pm | Comment

Personally – as for me – I will NEVER threaten ANYone here, with violence. But still, I think it will be better for MAJ, for him just to go away and never come back to TPD.

Posted by Ivan at September 14, 2005 09:33 AM

————

Ivan, you could threaten MAJ with your russian kiss, i bet that will work!

LOL

September 14, 2005 @ 8:29 pm | Comment

Ivan-
How did you find out this info about Madge? And where can I find those photos of his girlfriend he keeps mentioning by name?

Posted by Keir at September 14, 2005 08:29 PM

——————-

richard won’t allow us to “advertise” MAJ’s blog here.

September 14, 2005 @ 8:34 pm | Comment

Correct, he can do his own marketing. ๐Ÿ™‚

September 14, 2005 @ 8:42 pm | Comment

i don’t understand why MAJ doesn’t link to TPD in his blog, he seems love this place very much

September 14, 2005 @ 8:51 pm | Comment

Imagine my disappointment.

“Senate Republicans on Wednesday scuttled an attempt by Sen. Hillary Clinton to establish an independent, bipartisan panel patterned after the 9/11 Commission to investigate what went wrong with federal, state and local governments’ response to Hurricane Katrina. “

Now we’ll never be able to watch a bunch of bozo democrats grandstand about an important issue — in lieu of having a meaningful debate.

Eh, wait a minute, we can always watch Roberts confirmation hearing. Never mind….

September 14, 2005 @ 9:00 pm | Comment

I was under the impression that his blog was whichever allowed him to comment. Either that or he simply used China Daily as his official host site.
I was just glad to see Ivan taking such a passionate stand against malicious and rather scary posters….

September 14, 2005 @ 9:01 pm | Comment

Good poont, Bingfeng! Have you ever considered how many hours of his life he has devoted to me? Flattering — in a totally creepy way.

September 14, 2005 @ 9:09 pm | Comment

It was only a matter of time before this story went mainstream…

September 14, 2005 @ 10:24 pm | Comment

i came across this article
“the language of english has raped chinese people”. i think it is insightful and is the case in china. especially the last sentence:
“English has greatly raped chinese, it has been for tens of years, and how long will this continue to be”

the link (in chinese, hope someone kindly translate)
http://news.sina.com.cn/bbs/2005/0914/23081099.html

September 14, 2005 @ 10:43 pm | Comment

MAJ finally has his own site? He can spam himself now?

Well, at least he can host “family discussions” in his own comments! I’m imagining Helen, Dr. Anne Myers, Derrick, Mrs. Amanda Liu and the whole chummy lot competing to outdo each other in their accolades to MAJ’s subtle brilliance, like a girlscout campfire sing-along, only each scout is named “Sybil”.

Maybe the spectacle will attract the interest of a real psychologist.

September 14, 2005 @ 10:44 pm | Comment

Another site mentions this new “blog” (more a series of masturbatory essays) and there are six long comments to the post — all written by you-know-who, and most complaining about what a terrible person I am. So funny (peculiar), to see a one-man comment thread.

Sadly, I don’t think the blog’s going to attract the attention of anyone. Since he deleted the comments and shut them down, it’s just one very looooong-winded voice. Don’t get me wrong, I love the guy. But his blog’s got a ways to go before Time names it Blog of the Year.

September 14, 2005 @ 11:02 pm | Comment

Henry, I’ve never heard of an entire people being raped by…a language. I guess anything’s possible.

September 14, 2005 @ 11:04 pm | Comment

richard,

sometimes i just can’t help thinking that the God is playing with us to punish our stupidity.

bellevue (TPD) vs. bingfeng (TBT)
MAJ (TBT) vs. richard (TPD)

i am not suggesting MAJ is bellevue, or i host MAJ’s comments and his articles at the teahouse to repay your tolerance with bellevue at TPD

but to me, MAJ seems to be created by the God to remind us something …

September 15, 2005 @ 12:50 am | Comment

but to me, MAJ seems to be created by the God to remind us something

That there are fu*king idiots in this world?

September 15, 2005 @ 2:40 am | Comment

madge spam

September 15, 2005 @ 2:43 am | Comment

Madge spam

September 15, 2005 @ 2:47 am | Comment

That there are fu*king idiots in this world?

Posted by Gordon at September 15, 2005 02:40 AM

————

yes, a lot of idiots, certainly me included and you, excluded ๐Ÿ™‚

September 15, 2005 @ 3:15 am | Comment

Comment removed: Inappropriate content.

September 15, 2005 @ 3:28 am | Comment

You know who:
My problem with you is not your various persona, but the fact that you are a vindictive and egotistical individual who finds it impossible to get away from your juvenile (I hope)vendettas. The hateful things you say about Richard and his site for all to read (going so far as release personal info) while hypocritically continuing to log in and post, gormlessly going so far as to expect an invite to his dinner staggers belief. Such characteristics are found in stalkers.
I have contempt too for your constant apologia for EVERY evil thing this regime does, and, like an Israeli throwing out accusations of anti-semitism when one condemns a specific state act against Palestinians, merely retorts that one criticises the fact the gov’t can do whatever it likes with impunity because he hates China. To read your asskissing comments thanking the Chinese for all they’ve done to/in Tibet (while enjoying the luxury of not being a Tibetan yourself, not living the lives Tibetans are forced to endure nor I fancy, unlike me, actually having spent time there) and all the rest makes me nauseous. All you do is take over the comments with the same tripe I read from those who worship Stalin and expect it to be accepted while ignoring all comments to the contrary. After you admitted that you felt forced to adopt imaginary friends to write in and pretend to actually have support from others I realised you were living in a world I didn’t want to visit and I then understood how intimidated Richard must have felt with such a person harassing him as you have. You obviously have a tremendous need to have your ego stroked and your existence recognised, even if only in the tiny world of expat bloggers in China. I deplore Richard’s site being used as a vehicle for your mastubatory impulses, and the fact that he’s too nice to ban you once and for all.

September 15, 2005 @ 4:18 am | Comment

madge

September 15, 2005 @ 4:44 am | Comment

madge

September 15, 2005 @ 4:55 am | Comment

madge

September 15, 2005 @ 5:00 am | Comment

Ivan,
Talking purely hypothetically and everything, but would you actually be able to follow through on your …um…promises? You probably have no idea about just how much this little issue has spiralled out-of-control, nor about just how much support you’d have.
Completely hypothetical. Of course. Not suggesting anything. At all.

PS “Well-connected” usually works wonders in China.

September 15, 2005 @ 7:45 am | Comment

Keir, Madge is banned, but if he uses different IP addresses there’s nothing I can do but delete his comments later on. The best thing is to not respond, as he uses any acknowledgement as an excuse to bombard this site with bizarre comments. I have asked him repeatedly to simply go away and leave me alone, but this is an obsession that he cannot control. He is totally consumed. I just have to live with it and hope that he doesn’t resort to physical violence. (And no, I don’t think he’s that deranged, but sometimes I have to wonder.)

September 15, 2005 @ 9:36 am | Comment

Richard … I guess we could call him your most devoted fan? Just wear a flak-jacket, and check under your car before you turn on the ignition.

September 15, 2005 @ 11:15 am | Comment

I guess we could call him your most devoted fan?

What a privilege. I feel like flypaper for freaks.

September 15, 2005 @ 11:18 am | Comment

Bingfeng, there was a comment earlier that attacked you and insulted all Chinese people. It’s gone. I just want you to know, I’m an equal opportunity deleter. (And aside from Madge spam, I almost never delete; it’s something you have to really strive for)

September 15, 2005 @ 11:21 am | Comment

I’m really curious to have a look at Madge’s website … and it’s quite amusing that so far, after half an hour of searching, I haven’t been able to locate it! Since I don’t know what it’s called, I’ve been trying a variety of means of tracking him down [edited] and I found this:

[FSN9, forgive me, but I have to delete this delicious information, although I know Madge would not show me the same courtesy. I think we can find embarrassing stuff on just about anybody, and by posting this here I open the door to all sorts of invasions of privacy. But it’s wonderful ammo for me in the future should I ever need it — can’t thank you enough, and please understand why I can’t allow it on my site. Richard]

Well, sure it’s personal information … but he put it out there![edited]

September 15, 2005 @ 11:42 am | Comment

FSN, you’re going to get Madge very irritated! He loves to dish it out, but he doesn’t like to be on the receiving end. Thanks for sharing that.

You can find information on his blog over at Bingfeng Teahouse (blogrolled on the left). It’s a travel blog in the usual style — mind-numblingly long posts that reek of self-absorption. Of course, you can’t leave comments there. As I said, loves to dish out, hates to take it.

September 15, 2005 @ 11:54 am | Comment

FSN9, sorry, but on reconsideration I felt I had to edit your last comment. We’ve all seen how vindictive our friend can be, and posting personal stuff about him that he doesn’t want made public only opens the door for him to do more mischief. Thanks for your understanding, and thanks for the great find.

September 15, 2005 @ 11:56 am | Comment

Richard … no worries. Actually, I’m glad you’re here “live” to edit the comment … I had second thoughts after I posted it myself, and do think it was probably over the line. Don’t worry, I’m not going to get offended and become your second stalker. ๐Ÿ™‚

September 15, 2005 @ 12:02 pm | Comment

ooooh … now I understand …

I’ve checked out his blog, and it’s only now that I realise exactly why the website I found constitutes “dirt”.

Those sure are some interesting photos there. I thought it was only Chinese girls who couldn’t get in front of a camera without instantly posing!

September 15, 2005 @ 12:15 pm | Comment

Hey everyone,
Actually the Sean=Seana=Seannita posts were mine. I thought they were funny, but they were apparently a bit too realistic in MAJ’s world.

May I add a suggestion, everyone? I sort of enjoy reading stuff about him (just saw what he was about recently), but you are just encouraging him. If you’re serious about stopping him, you’ll need to delete ALL references to him. I’m sure it’ll be hard at first, but right now, I’m just getting annoyed by him being mentioned-but-not-mentioned.

Richard, could you, for perhaps a month, just delete ANY reference to MAJ? Even if it’s from a supporter… or from someone asking a question. You’ll have to delete it. Otherwise I believe the Unnamed One will find his new playthings amusing.

If you agree, please remove this comment of mine completely. (If the other posters agree, please immediately comply). I won’t bring him up again.

Looking forward to nothing.

September 15, 2005 @ 4:41 pm | Comment

will leave to Pan Jia Yuanrrrrrrrrrr soon, i got a few afghansitan guwanrrrrrr as gifts and hopefully will get a few beijing guwanerrrrrrr today

September 15, 2005 @ 7:22 pm | Comment

Why am I not surprised this guy has compulsive obsession with stroking his imaginary beard in photos?

Who wants to maliciously speculate as to his status in high school? I have a few ideas…

September 15, 2005 @ 9:20 pm | Comment

i came across this article
“the language of english has raped chinese people”. i think it is insightful and is the case in china. especially the last sentence:
“English has greatly raped chinese, it has been for tens of years, and how long will this continue to be”

the link (in chinese, hope someone kindly translate)
http://news.sina.com.cn/bbs/2005/0914/23081099.html

Posted by Henry at September 14, 2005 10:43 PM

————————————————————

It’s Friday and I was tired of traslating press releases so here is the posting in English. ๐Ÿ™‚ I really cannot stand people who make victims of themselves. The person who wrote the post and the numerous people who agreed wholeheartedly that the English language is a rapist have the inferiority complex thing going on real bad.

September 16, 2005 @ 12:38 am | Comment

Sean, we agree in principle – I won’t delete your comment just yet so a few others can see it.

BTW, I had a live Duck sighting this evening – had the pleasure of meeting our migrating Duck at LAX for a couple of hours. Great conversation, great guy, I feel fortunate we were able to get together in Real Space.

September 16, 2005 @ 2:22 am | Comment

p.s. I would like to ask again that people refrain from posting under multiple handles UNLESS you are clearly making a joke, and a real funny one at that. There’s been too much confusion and too much unpleasantness due to this practice, and Richard, Martyn and I all agree that it’s something we aren’t going to tolerate. Thanks!

September 16, 2005 @ 2:23 am | Comment

Lisa,

We’re on the same page. I’ll also agree to what Sean said about deleting – and about keeping an absolute no mention policy – so I say you can and should also delete any comments I made about the unnamed freak.

September 16, 2005 @ 2:34 am | Comment

Thanks, Ivan. I think we will leave this thread as is and start this new policy with the new open thread. How’s that sound?

September 16, 2005 @ 2:58 am | Comment

Lisa,

Yep, that sounds cool to me. I’ll shake on it – or if you prefer a Russian style agreement I’ll kiss you three times. ๐Ÿ™‚

Sean, I apologize for jumping to conclusions about you – although you DID kind of ask for it, unwittingly. Anyway, no worries between you and me. Some of the regulars here know I can be a bit of a hothead sometimes – the Russian half, you know – but as long as anyone talks sense and fairness to me in the long run, then the worst thing you have to worry about is my kissing you and effusively proclaiming my affections, and then swearing to defend you with my life…. ๐Ÿ™‚
(Sean, if you’re Irish as your name suggests, then you’ll understand. Russians are a lot like the Irish: Borderline crazy because so close to God….. ๐Ÿ™‚

Right. So, next thread? ๐Ÿ™‚

September 16, 2005 @ 7:21 am | Comment

Ja wohl. I’ll start a new one in a little bit…

September 16, 2005 @ 12:49 pm | Comment

Hey, I read Jo Bananas English Rape translation, and I gotta say I agree mostly with the article. The thing is it focuses on compulsory English, and how that’s unnecessary, unfair, no fun and takes away time from individuals whose time could be more productively used studying something else. I couldn’t agree more; but the compulsory part is what makes the word “rape” at all relevant, and it’s not the English language itself that makes its study compulsory.

Hmmm…. who makes English learning mandatory on the Mainland? And if we substitute their name for the words Compulsory English in the articles title:

The English Language Has Raped the Chinese People

What does this article really say?

September 16, 2005 @ 5:27 pm | Comment

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