I wish I believed in hell

Because then I could pray that Fred Phelps and his thugs would burn there forever. Unfortunately, as an agnostic all I can do is hope they lead miserable lives and ultimately get their just dessert.

Members of the Rev. Fred Phelps’ Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kan., are picketing military funerals, KMBC’s Micheal Mahoney reported Friday.

The group has made national headlines for traveling throughout the country to picket gay churches, gay weddings, and the funeral of Matthew Shepard, a gay college student who was murdered in Wyoming in 1998.

Friday, about 15 members of the group — some of them children — picketed the funeral of a St. Joseph soldier who was killed in Iraq. Mahoney reported that the group stood across the road from the Grace Evangelical Church during the funeral of 21-year-old Spc. Edward Myers.

“The first sin was being a part of this military. If this young man had a clue and any fear of God, he would have run, and not walked, from this military,” said protester Shirley Phelps-Roper. “Who would serve a nation that is godless and has flipped off, defiantly defied, defiantly flipped off, the Lord their God?”

One protester had an American flag tied to his belt that draped to the ground. He was holding a sign that read, “Thank God For IEDs,” which are explosive devices used by insurgents to blow up military convoys.

Protesters said America has ignored the word of God, and those who defend the nation must pay a price.

“That’s the first piece of solid evidence that you have that the young man is currently in hell,” Phelps-Roper said.

“The soldier is in hell now, you believe?” Mahoney asked.

“Absolutely,” Phelps-Roper said.

Sometimes strong language is called for, and if it’s okay for Dick Cheney to say it, I can too: Phelps & Co, go fuck yourslves. If hell exists, burn there forever. If there is a hell, it was custom-made for scum like you. And thank you for alerting us all to the dangers of distorting the teachings of Jesus to justify blind festering hatred. Bastards.

The Discussion: 49 Comments

Amazing HARDBALL interview with the parents of one of the Ohio Marines who died in Iraq. It’s at:


Scroll down.

August 5, 2005 @ 10:23 pm | Comment

The media should declare a moratorium on coverage of this traveling freakshow and be done with it. They’ll picket anything to make news; when the news goes away, they’ll go back to Oklahoma or wherever and lead quiet, desperate lives of disbarred, failed lawyers.

I don’t believe for a second that they have followers, which is why they have to use children to prop up their ranks. They’re pathetic.

August 5, 2005 @ 10:39 pm | Comment

I hear they’ve been making threatening phone calls to Ernie and Bert.

August 5, 2005 @ 10:46 pm | Comment

Lisa, Devi thanks for the comments and linka. (*Oh yeah, you too, Ivan!) ๐Ÿ™‚

I hope you’re right Devi that they are a media creation. They sure know how to play the networks, and they sure know how to redefine the very concept of poor taste and heartlessness. So very Christian of them.

August 6, 2005 @ 12:31 am | Comment

Here you go, here’s a photo of Ernie and Bert getting a harassing phone call from Fred Phelps:


August 6, 2005 @ 3:17 am | Comment

The Phelps clan is the poster child for repealing the tax exemption for churches.

August 6, 2005 @ 3:27 am | Comment

Or maybe for repealing freedom of speech.

August 6, 2005 @ 3:37 am | Comment

Bloody hell. That is simply revolting. It does give some credence to old Friedrich Nietzsche’s comments about ressentiment and religion, though.

I doubt that repealing the tax exemption for churches is the way to go. Nor is repealing freedom of speech.

As a law student, I can say that I loathe what they have said. I think it is unconsciounable to say something like that of someone who fought and died for his nation. But I will defend their right to say it, because if we start selecting what we are allowed to say and what we aren’t, we’ll end up on that long, slippery slope to censorship.

August 6, 2005 @ 4:02 am | Comment

I have to agree with Nolan.It is a slippery slope indeed. Next stop……China.

August 6, 2005 @ 4:34 am | Comment

Ignore it! As to law! But there would be nothing to stop the mass killing of the Phelps Clan by an individual(s)…..

August 6, 2005 @ 4:40 am | Comment

These are the times when Freedom of Speech are most important.It separates the men from the boys.

August 6, 2005 @ 4:49 am | Comment

Reminds me of a friend of mine who was involved in a documentary about the evangelist movement. Their presence at the olympics in Athens must have been heavy. Next stop is Beijing 2008. Will be interesting to see how the Chinese authorities deal with them.

And here are two of my favorites by Voltaire:

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

“Anything too stupid to be said is sung”

August 6, 2005 @ 5:23 am | Comment

This is a good lesson for our Chinese “Friend’s.” We will put up with anything! Come join us in Paradise.

August 6, 2005 @ 5:38 am | Comment

Shulan, Don’t worry these Chinese Cats are up-to-date.They know ALL about Evangelical’s.

August 6, 2005 @ 5:40 am | Comment

Oh, I’m not worried. I just wonder how the authorities, who sometimes display paranoid reactions towars religious movements, will deal with them when the howle world is watching.

August 6, 2005 @ 5:49 am | Comment

Shulan,I’ve tried to e-mail you but it doesn’t work.What to do?

August 6, 2005 @ 6:01 am | Comment

Try this one:

August 6, 2005 @ 6:20 am | Comment

I could loved you.But No.It’s not happening.

August 6, 2005 @ 6:44 am | Comment

Arlo I’m not sure if I understood your last comment.
What about posting your own e-mail, so I can mail you?

August 6, 2005 @ 6:50 am | Comment

As much as I ,personally, would love to exploit my ass…….I can’t…well I can.. see it’s …. but….. it’s not involving an Asian male……………Know what i mean? ………..It’s you baby…It’s always been you…..

August 6, 2005 @ 6:55 am | Comment

Hm ….

Hey Xena I spotted AM in Germany she is runnung for chancelor. Found out AM does not stand for American Man but for Angela Merkel.

August 6, 2005 @ 7:03 am | Comment

A’M’s got some (drunken) balls! Stick with her. She’ll end up alright.

August 6, 2005 @ 7:05 am | Comment

Under American law – that is, according to a long and consistent line of First Amendment case law – what these creeps have done is NOT protected by either the free speech clause or the freedom of religion clause of the First Amendment.
1. Their words (and actions) when they picketed a military funeral, were NOT “free speech” in the Constitutional sense, because the free speech clause refers principally to POLITICAL speech in public fora.
Political speech is ALWAYS protected, provided that it’s done in a proper time, place and manner, ie not in a time or place or manner which constitutes harassment of others. But furthermore, the content of what these creeps said, was not political. It was religious. So:
2. Then you must ask whether it is protected by the religion clause. Well, yes they DO have the right to say these idiotic things – as a matter of freedom of religion – but NOT in a way which violates any laws which are NOT concerned with the religious content. That means, you can believe anything you want, and say it, but NOT in a WAY which violates any criminal or civil laws – provided that those laws are not concerned with the CONTENT of the speech or the religion.
3. An example – you have the right to believe in snake-worship, and to preach it to others, but not in an aggressive or harassing way.
4. Therefore, a good case can be made for a civil lawsuit for intentional infliction of emotional distress – as well as for harassment, depending on the laws of that state – and perhaps a criminal prosecution for harassment as well. You can preach any religion you want, but not in a harassing way. The law is clear on that.

August 6, 2005 @ 7:17 am | Comment

Ivan, I love you beeeyatc!That you, in your drunkeness,would take the time…Anyway….fight the power my brother.

August 6, 2005 @ 7:29 am | Comment

But I ,In my admittedly less than intellectual sense,Would love to understand your basic ideas! I mean about the Republic. I mean about the founding ideas an stuff.Please remind us.Cause I think some peoples need remindings.

August 6, 2005 @ 7:37 am | Comment

“When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord doesn’t work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.”
-Emo Philips

August 6, 2005 @ 7:42 am | Comment

Yep, Gotta love these Liberal’s .Waiting for something to happen………Nope, Life is a gotta make it happen kinda deal.Talk and talk and sit in your coffee house and talk and OH my gosh! Nothing ..and I mean nothing ever get’s done. And I say why? well it’s because of the big bad Republican’s.Really? Oh yeas and blah and blah and blah….

August 6, 2005 @ 7:57 am | Comment

“I’ve never understood how God could expect His creatures to pick the one true religion by faithโ€”it strikes me as a sloppy way to run a universe.”
-Robert A. Heinlein

August 6, 2005 @ 8:05 am | Comment

I wish that these people would undertand that! OH,well,We’re stuck with “intellectual’s” or Self Pro-CLaimed.

August 6, 2005 @ 8:27 am | Comment

Shulan, I gotta big Phelp’s fer you!

August 6, 2005 @ 8:31 am | Comment

This one is sure to freak all the Liberal’s out…..”My adversaries…….applied the means that win’s the easiest victory over reason: terror and force.”.Mein Kampf

August 6, 2005 @ 8:36 am | Comment

Arlo, I wanna be your dog. Unfortunately my current owner thinks I’m not mature enough to engage in a serious relationship.

August 6, 2005 @ 8:39 am | Comment

Shulan,It’s cool….. but I’m pretty sure that the Peking Duck P.C. police will kill our love anyway!They’re pretty real.Been to China/America recently?. They are real tough.If you’re not an intellectual you’re out!AS for me, I’ll keep on bein’ a Freedom of Speech muthafucka…..Oh and BTW, I’m not an Intellectual..Asw if you didn’t notice by my bad grammar in shit.

August 6, 2005 @ 8:50 am | Comment


August 6, 2005 @ 8:56 am | Comment

So sad. But true love will overcome even the bigest obstacles. I’m sure.

August 6, 2005 @ 8:57 am | Comment

“My girlfiend said to me in bed last night’ ‘you’re a pervert’ I said, ‘that’s a big word for a girl of nine’.”
Emo Philips.

August 6, 2005 @ 8:58 am | Comment

By the way. Have you fead the extraterrestrian?

August 6, 2005 @ 9:01 am | Comment

was that in german? Sorry Martyn.

August 6, 2005 @ 9:03 am | Comment

The alien?

August 6, 2005 @ 9:07 am | Comment

fed the alien? I hate those intellectual nitpickers.

August 6, 2005 @ 9:11 am | Comment

Shulan,I’m REALLY drunk.But we are being taken over by P.C. un-happy police.In China anyway.This,I thought,was American Don’t let it spread………………………….. .

August 6, 2005 @ 9:15 am | Comment

BTW, That was in the Vernacular. I love pretension too!

August 6, 2005 @ 11:07 am | Comment

Sam_S: with respect to freedom of speech, what do you think about the proposed new British anti-terror legislation? Among other things, it would make it a crime to foster hatred and encourage violence in furtherance of one’s religious beliefs.

August 6, 2005 @ 11:42 am | Comment

No speech, more killing !The (Tejas) American way!

August 6, 2005 @ 11:56 am | Comment

BTW, There’s only one Religion. Money!!!!! All around the world. Don’t spend your time kidding yourself.

August 6, 2005 @ 12:02 pm | Comment

Arlo, are you by any chance American Man? Your IP address is telling me strange things.

August 6, 2005 @ 12:16 pm | Comment

Um, I didn’t write that last remark.
Someone else is using my handle.

August 6, 2005 @ 6:41 pm | Comment

It’s Arlo (AM) again. I will delete it. He’s a good, nice person but he’s using my comments for some personal mischief I can’t quite figure out. My apologies, and please alert me if it happens again.

August 6, 2005 @ 6:53 pm | Comment


Sorry, but you are wrong regarding the free speech arguments you set forth above. The idea that the First Amendment is limited to (or primarily concerned with) political speech is incorrect as a matter of law. The US Supreme Court has made clear that:

“private religious speech, far from being a First Amendment orphan, is as fully protected under the Free Speech Clause as secular private expression.”

See, Capitol Square Review & Advisory Bd. v. Pinette, 515 U.S. 753, 760 (1995).

In short, the fact that a statement is religious in natrue in NO WAY diminishes the protections afforded to it under the First Amendment. The blather coming from the Phelps’ traveling freakshow is fully protected under the Free Speech Clause, period, end of argument.

On the other hand, imagine the Phelps surprise when they die and find themselves in hell, consigned to serve forever as bottom-boys to thorn-cocked, demonic leathermen.

August 7, 2005 @ 9:59 pm | Comment

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