That time of the evening (or morning)

It’s thread time.

The Discussion: 194 Comments

Richard, have a good trip. Check in with Danwei/Jeremy in BJ as he seems to have a good handle on jobs. Blog for us so we can keep up with your adventures.

July 21, 2005 @ 8:23 pm | Comment

Thanks Pete, I will definitely meet up with Jeremy, who has done some great favors for me in the past. But I think my sites are set on Taiwan. I just can’t wait to get there.

July 21, 2005 @ 8:31 pm | Comment

Ming is back and now he’s sharing his experiences of life in America.

Give him a visit.

July 21, 2005 @ 8:32 pm | Comment

This just in..

Paris, July 21, 2005-

AP and UPI reported that the French government has raised its terror alert level from RUN to HIDE on their four level danger scale.

The two higher French danger levels are Surrender and Collaborate.

According to informed sources, the rise was precipitated by a fire yesterday which destroyed France’s white flag factory, effectively
paralyzing its military.

In light of the recent attacks in London, it is widely anticipated that the terror alert will be elevated to the third level before the weekend.

July 21, 2005 @ 9:32 pm | Comment

It’s funny Gordon, I read a fascinating article last week (and can’t find it anywhere now) about how France actually has done a much better job than the UK in curtailing terrorism within its borders. They achieved this, the writer contended, in part by cracking down on multicultutalism, the most famous example being last year’s banning of the Moslem schoolgirls’ headscarves. At the same time, the UK has been far more indugent and open minded in encouraging diversity – even hypersensitive about offending its Muslin community. Of course, as a believer in multiculturaliusm, I hate this argument, but it was made very compellingly. It was all about forcing them to adopt the culture of their host country, even if it strikes ACLU types as unfair. It also presented all sorts of data on how France has been in the forefront of terror prevention. I’ll have to look for it.

Which raises the question, what’s the thinking behind allegations the French are so soft on terrorism? It’s a serious question. Your comment was funny, but is it based on any reality?

July 21, 2005 @ 9:48 pm | Comment

I think Richard is right – I believe that the French have had far more success in policing against terrorism than say the Germans, who because of their WW2 experiences are very cautious about any infringements on human rights and privacy.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:16 pm | Comment

And, of course, the French let the young Arab militants, blow off steam by desecrating synagogues and beating the sh*t of of Jews in the streets.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:24 pm | Comment

Conrad, shame on you. Chirac spoke out loudly to condemn those attacks. To imply that the French government “let” these acts take place is unfounded and unfair. But then, I forgot, you’re a Freedom Fries type of guy.

July 21, 2005 @ 10:27 pm | Comment

Anyone in Beijing going to the screening of Jeremy ( Goldkorn’s new video documentary?

July 21, 2005 @ 10:30 pm | Comment

Interesting point Richard, but I think the French have been manic about ‘preserving’ their culture since long before the rise in terrorism. However, the roll mention it playing in reducing the amount of terrorism is indeed an interesting one.

Of course, the French have also helped reduce terrorism against their nation by bashing America and trying to counter any and everything we do.

I should point out though, the initial comment I posted above wasn’t mine. I just took it from an email that was sent to me and placed it here in humor.

July 21, 2005 @ 11:02 pm | Comment

Chirac spoke out loudly to condemn those attacks.

uh huh, just like Muslim nations condemned 911 – with tongue in cheek.

July 21, 2005 @ 11:11 pm | Comment

Gordon, do you really think Chirac was happy with the attacks on Jews, and the stain it left on his nation? And do you think he was insincere in his extension of sympathy after 911? I remember being very moved by the French reaction that day. Very. It was only with the Iraq fiasco that they suddenly became villains. And how ironic; all their objections about no proof of WMDs turned out to be on the money. They were the smart ones. Maybe we can learn from them. I love the French. And I’m serious.

July 21, 2005 @ 11:18 pm | Comment

WMD’s aside, I strongly believe the French opposed the Iraq invasion simply because of their dealings with Saddam.

They’ve also tried to stand in our way of everything else ever since.

July 21, 2005 @ 11:31 pm | Comment

That’s your typical French arrogance. It’s part of their charm and espirit.

July 21, 2005 @ 11:34 pm | Comment


How could you? The France of Dreyfuss and Vichy would never!

July 22, 2005 @ 12:04 am | Comment


Shame on someone:

The level of antisemitic violence in France remained high in 2002 and 2003. According to CRIF, there were 517 incidents registered in 2002 and 503 in 2003. Despite the slight decrease in 2003, the number of violent attacks rose from 185 to 233, including 100 assaults on individuals compared to 75 in 2002, Moreover, 50 percent of all incidents in 2003 were directed against Jewish youngsters under the age of 18.

Jewish schoolchildren were the target of a large number of attacks in 2002, a trend which continued into 2003. Several of the attacks in 2002 were directed against buses carrying Jewish schoolchildren. For example, on 10 April 2002 a group of Arab youths stoned a bus parked beside a Jewish school, as pupils were beginning to board. One child was injured and some windows were broken. A month later, a 16-year-old Jewish youth was assaulted in by a group of eight Muslims who studied in the same school. In 2003 a Jewish schoolgirl studying in Marseille was assaulted and verbally abused on by a group of ten Muslim girls. In March and April 2003 students at the Otsar HaTorah School in Toulouse were hounded as they traveled home from school on public transport by Arabs who called them โ€œDirty Jews.โ€ In public schools, teachers who attempt to give lessons on the Holocaust, as well as Jewish pupils, are harassed in classes with a large proportion of Arabs/Muslims, who deny that Nazis killed Jew

In the run-up to the April 2002 presidential elections, French government officials were reluctant to take firm action against the mainly Muslim perpetrators of antisemitic acts for fear of offending the Muslim/Arab vote and potential Le Pen supporters. In March 2002 Chirac stated that he did not believe France was an antisemitic country or that there was a serious problem with anti-semitism in France.

July 22, 2005 @ 12:20 am | Comment

another outspoken mayor, what do you guys think?

July 22, 2005 @ 12:33 am | Comment

bingfeng, every single threat you comment on, you f**k up the borders with your monster links. Please either split the long links or use as it’s no fun scrolling backwards and forwards reading the comments.

July 22, 2005 @ 12:43 am | Comment

“Red Ken,” I like him! I think his analysis is about half-right, but not all the way. Frankly, I think cultures that subjugate women, like the Saudis, for example, are dysfunctional and create conditions that breed terrorists. It’s not simply a matter of American and Western imperialism that has kept so many Arab countries mired in medieval thinking.

My belief in cultural relativism only goes so far…

July 22, 2005 @ 1:01 am | Comment

Martyn: When that happens, open the comments in a new window or, if you use Firefox, a new tab.

Richard: I think Gordon has a point. The French are simply not as big a target right now because they aren’t seen as co-occupiers of Iraq (Britain) or desecrators of the Muslim holy land (USA – the original stated motivation for the 9/11 attacks).

I’d like to read the article you reference. I am not sure that cultural suppression is the answer to terrorism. It hasn’t worked well for Turkey, with their Kurdish minority. But I am curious about the arguments being made in the French case.

Also, I am willing to believe that Chirac is genuinely appalled by anti-semitism in France (and that’s a stretch for me because I think Chirac is a corrupt old goat). But the French have a proud history of anti-semitism that predates their muslim minority.

Ironically, if anyone is going to commit terrorism against the French, it’d probably be renegade Americans who have yet to get over the insult of France’s lack of support for the Iraq war. Gordon – strap one on and go martyr yourself for the cause!

July 22, 2005 @ 1:17 am | Comment

Re Red Ken, the people of London like him as well. They’ve twice voted him into his elected position as Major of London. He’s in that job for life.

July 22, 2005 @ 1:18 am | Comment

Lisa, I think you’re bang on. It’s one thing to be respectful of culture. It’s another to be passive about willful imposition of misery. A lot of shameful activity has been justified under the banner of “culture”. As though these things were codified in some great book. Cultures change. Remember, it used to be OK to keep slaves in the US and prohibit women from voting. That was our culture once – stautorily racist and sexist. Does anyone want to argue that those were necessary aspects of our national identity?

July 22, 2005 @ 1:21 am | Comment

Thanks Will. I do that on Firefox and that above link isn’t very long to be ffair but there’s been a couple of posted links on other threads that have stretched beyond the length of the entire screen and they are the ones where one must scroll backwards and forwards with every sentence.

Anyway, how is the Imagethief burd-flu thread going? Haven’t looked today.

July 22, 2005 @ 1:21 am | Comment

An unrelated anecdote from yesterday’s unlinkable SCMP:

Hong Kong police last month conducted an identification “line-up” to give crime victims the opportunity to identify an accused fraudster.

Unfair” the con-man claimed, “since I have grown my hair and a beard since the acts in question took place, you should let me wear a shower cap and surgical mask to conceal these new additions.

Okay,” replied the police “just so long as everyone in the line-up also wears a showercap and surgical mask.

The line-up was conducted with all of the participants concrealed beneath shower caps and behind surgical masks, and, not surprisingly, no identification was made by the thoroughly confused witnesses.

These events were described to the presiding judge yesterday who demanded to know whether the police had lost their minds and what planet they resided pon when not at the precinct.

Following the hearing, a police spokesman promised that the department would “study the judge’s remarks carefully.”

July 22, 2005 @ 1:22 am | Comment

Martyn: Burd Floo did OK for readers, but the comment winner of yesterday’s posts was the bit on petty shortages. Don’t know why. I thought it’d be the one on China’s forlorn bachelors (and thanks, Simon, for the link on that one).

July 22, 2005 @ 1:27 am | Comment

Will, I think it was the bit about the roll-on deodorant yanking out your arm-pit hairs…

July 22, 2005 @ 1:35 am | Comment

Ya know, my armpits get sore just thinking about it.

And, to deflect attention from my armpits: I just had lunch with a longtime China business journalist who told me an interesting fact. I’ve not verified it, but it sounds credible:

Half of all the profits made by American businesses in China come from five companies:

The big three automakers
Yum Brands (KFC and Pizza Hut)

Yep, cars and fast food. Who says the Chinese don’t welcome the best of American culture?

July 22, 2005 @ 1:37 am | Comment

Yes, just read your post on petty shorttages I laughed at this line “I finally found a hidden stash [of dental floss] at the Watsonโ€™s in China World, but I had to trade six liters of gasoline and some sexual favors for two rolls.”

I left my own rant, er, comment.

Conrad, re today’s scmp, you should check out Jake Van Der Kamp’s Monitor column.

July 22, 2005 @ 1:38 am | Comment

And don’t forget “Titanic.”

Are they still playing “My Heart Will Go On” in every effin’ Chinese supermarket???

July 22, 2005 @ 1:39 am | Comment

I’m not sure. I trepanned my own skull with a hand drill and used a knitting needle to destroy the section of my brain that recognizes that song. So now I can’t hear it any more. Unfortunately, I also now regularly have long blackouts after which I wake up naked except for a bow tie and covered in human blood and “Magic Shell” ice creap topping, but I figure it was worth the trade.

July 22, 2005 @ 1:46 am | Comment

Dang. That’s what I should’ve done…

July 22, 2005 @ 1:47 am | Comment

I can loan you a bow tie.

July 22, 2005 @ 1:51 am | Comment

On response to this article

I just read what you wrote in the china Daily. To speak frankly Mr. Jones I find it rather appauling and uninsightful. I had known of and read some of the Peking duck before I read your unfair biased view of that Blog website. I found the website although in some ways crass and blunt, knowledgable. Many of the things that were said on that web site are true and some of the things are ridiculous; but aren’t all websites that post Blogs and messages the same way? Even Chinese one’s. but isn’t that what’s great about growing up in a democratic government. Freedom of expression, where as Chinese blog spots have been severly regulated. I wonder why. Perhaps the chinese bloggers opinions are steady of those in Peking Duck. To me my first initial thought of your reading was propaganda. How else could it have been allowed to be in the paper of China Daily? On the other hand I have sent plenty of articles to China Daily and 21rst century. One was regarding the education system of China in which I spoke about Plagerism. They weren’t interested.

“If we accept the notion of modernity with Chinese characteristics, as “I” do, then the need for a critical reading of it cannot be denied because Western modernity itself has also been subjected to sharp criticism. Many of the criticisms raised in these English-language China bog sites are valid, for sure, but the problem with most of them is that they seriously lack in fairness and balance. They are nowhere near objective enough. Instead, they serve as little more than hate sites.”

I think that your article addressing the whole of China is seriously lacking in fairness and balance. Your view is one sided. Have you ever took into account that these websites are a source of venting for foriegners from the frustrations of living or having lived in a society such as China? Surely these websites will not be the destruction of China. So what harm is in “ranting and raving” as you put it? And the name calling “the Peking Dope” as you called it? How unprofessional! And what is this “I” business like we should all agree to what you are saying? Do you speak for every foriegner here in China? You surely don’t speak for me. You are just like the persons you accuse. Did you even bother to write about the Chinese person who was having a problem of being gay in China? Yes that was in Peking Duck and the moderator attempted to help him with his problem. Did you bother to write that in a NATIONAL NEWSPAPER? No, instead you publicaly bash them which is a serious lack of fairness and unbalance. You sound like a communist idealist, a Leon Trotsky of his time, snowball, and Nepolian is this idea that you are attempting to defend. But it appears to me that you are what us Black people like to call “A mad rapper” a lot of accusations and words but not a lot of substance. And if you love china so much(As your biased name states in the article) why dont you revoke your (I’m assuming) “U.S. of A” citizenship for a Chinese passport? It can easily be done.
In conclusion I don’t agree with many of the things bloggers have to say, but then again I agree with many of the things they do have to say. China is a very Nationalistic country meaning they are very very prideful of their nation(About 88% of the people claim they agree with what the government does, I think thats higly unlikely being that about half of the counrty would leave China for another country if they had the chance). And they have their ways of being prideful….and so do we. This is our way of being prideful, I like China, but I love my country even more. There are a lot of problems in America and I will as a Black man be the first to admit that but I would never publicly try and humiliate my fellow American(or other westerner) citizens in a Chinese NATIONAL NEWSPAPER. Your ideas would have been best expressed in a Westernized newspaper. You know what you have done? You have just added fuel to an already anti-westernized fire. Thanks a lot Snowball

Randall Field

July 22, 2005 @ 1:55 am | Comment

This is skipping back a bit in the thread, but I think us Londoners like Ken Livingston (Red Ken) because:
a) in the 1980s when he was the leader of the Greater London Council he annoyed Thatcher severely. (In the end she abolished the GLC, so he spent all the money left in his budget on fun things like massive fireworks displays.
b) after the GLC he became a Labour MP, and ended up having a fight with Tony Blair about the lack of socialism in New Labour. He resigned/was thrown out of the party, and then stood for election as London’s mayor – which he won with a resounding majority because the people of London felt that he was a lot more honest than Blair.

July 22, 2005 @ 2:23 am | Comment

I couldn’t resist responding to MAJ’s tirade at China Daily. This following now sits in its comment section:

It should be noted that the author of this article, Mark Anthony Jones, was a regular contributor to the Peking Duck website until he was discovered to be plagerizing vast amounts of other people’s published writing and claiming it as his own. It should also be noted that Mr. Jones created a false identity, pretending to be a female British University professor, under which identity Mr. Jones would post fake comments supporting arguments he previously made as himself.

Finally, and most disturbingly, Mr. Jones began to make sexually explicit and inappropriate posts, including posts where he sent revealing pictures of himself and requested naked pictures displaying the sexual organs of other male readers.

In light of the foregoing examples of theft, dishonestly and sexual misconduct, it was the conclusion of the overwhelming majority of users of the Peking Duck site that Mr. Jones appeared to be suffering from one or more serious mental problems and that it would be best for all concerned if he no longer posted on Peking Duck. He was therefore banned as a participant and asked never to post there again.

Unfortunately, Mr. Jones has violated this request on a number of occassions, attempting to post remarks under additional assumed identities.

In short, Mr. Jones is a disturbed individual with an “axe to grind” against the website he attacks. He is attempting to hijack this China Daily site to further his personal fued with the online community at Peking Duck. Except to wish him sympathy for his obvious pathologies, you should pay him no mind.

July 22, 2005 @ 2:33 am | Comment

haha, there’s gotta be something better to talk about than Loser (with a Capital “L”) finally finding his place with the other jerk-offs at China Daily.
China Daily is where I go to look for level-headed, objective, and rational discussion, hehe!

July 22, 2005 @ 2:48 am | Comment

How about a psychopath with a Capital P?

July 22, 2005 @ 3:06 am | Comment

Like Chocolate and Peanut Butter. Bogey and Bacall. Penn and Teller. New Jersey and You. Perfect together!

July 22, 2005 @ 3:09 am | Comment

Oh yes, I have banned myself from even mentioning the freak but I’ll come out now and say, nice one Conrad. Nicely done. I shall do my best to match your efforts although it will be difficult to find anything to add. I’ll do my best. Nice one.

July 22, 2005 @ 3:14 am | Comment


Nicely done Conrad. You should have posted the links to those articles so that posters of his article could have joined in to ridicule Mr. Sicko!

July 22, 2005 @ 3:36 am | Comment

Dr. Anne and her wrinkly anus will be rolling in her grave after reading that

July 22, 2005 @ 3:41 am | Comment

Kevin, her anus is like a rose petal.

July 22, 2005 @ 3:44 am | Comment

I think she had some work done on it. Botox injections?

July 22, 2005 @ 3:45 am | Comment

yes, in fact, i oversaw the injections myself, with my special booster.

July 22, 2005 @ 3:53 am | Comment

Pork injection?

July 22, 2005 @ 3:54 am | Comment

Does he/she still have that huge roid?

July 22, 2005 @ 3:54 am | Comment

in the botox industry, we call it a hot beef injection.

July 22, 2005 @ 3:55 am | Comment

ya know, that’s the… uh… technical term.

July 22, 2005 @ 3:57 am | Comment

I’m not up with all the new terms.Was your Hot Beef Injection a a gusher?

July 22, 2005 @ 3:57 am | Comment

arghh me matey, it was quite a scurvy gusher!
she told me that it shivered her timbers!

July 22, 2005 @ 4:08 am | Comment

What? He asked for pictures of our male organs? I actually never knew that part.
Because he never asked for pictures of MY organs! HMPH!
(Now looking downward with concern…. ๐Ÿ™‚

July 22, 2005 @ 4:28 am | Comment


I know you’re boycotting my site, but you might find this interesting:

Right-o, off for 2 weeks holiday.

July 22, 2005 @ 4:31 am | Comment

Martyn (or anyone), don’t boycott Simon’s site. It’s still one of the best there is, despite the recent controversy.

July 22, 2005 @ 4:36 am | Comment

Just read MAJ’s China Daily piece (and I know he’s likely reading this thread). Just for the record, it is completely out of order.

I thought I could reason with him, but clearly I was wrong.

I would like to apologise to everyone involved in this affair if it could be construed that I somehow encouraged these actions, despite my strenuous efforts to disuade MAJ from writing that article. It displays a pathological hatred that is completely unjustifiable. The article is a disproportionate response to what has taken place, and has unnecessarily jepordised people’s sites, identities and futures.

MAJ, you’ve crossed a line that is unforgiveable.

July 22, 2005 @ 4:41 am | Comment


I haven’t boycotted your site. I’m still a daily reader. Richard wrote to me the other day and asked me to forget it. If he can put it in the past then I have no reason to make any kind of stand.


Have a good hols mate.

July 22, 2005 @ 4:56 am | Comment

Anyway, I was dreading a life without the essential Daily Linklets or the even more essential China economy blogging!

July 22, 2005 @ 4:57 am | Comment

Haha! Oh yes! I love it Simon. An archive totally dedicated to the China economy. This is definitely the way forward. I know half-a-dozen people who will be putting that straight onto their Bookmarks as I’ve just done.

Any readers interested in the China economy must consider this essential reading as there isn’t anywhere else like it on the www.

Simonworld China Economy Archives:

By the way, if anyone ISN’T a subscriber to the SCMP—then you’ll have to go to the above link to read Jake Van Der Kamp’s column today which says that China’s GDP figures don’t add up and that parts of the economy are not growing AT ALL. I kid you not.

July 22, 2005 @ 5:08 am | Comment


I wouldn’t even entertain the idea that you somehow contributed to his madness.

As far as I’m concerned, I’m not even worried about him. I don’t post any identifiable information about myself on my blog – not even my name.

However, I do feel bad for Richard because I know that he has stressed over this and understandably so.

I’m not even going to respond to his little article. I’m just going to sit back and bask in the free advertising that he has done for me while making a complete ass out of himself and his poor girlfriend – if he even has one.

July 22, 2005 @ 5:13 am | Comment


The only big thing I could imagine your Chinese wife might ever need to adjust for living in US is English, which shouldn’t take long if you two communicate in English.

Nothing else.

July 22, 2005 @ 5:59 am | Comment

She speaks English REALLY well.She’s mostly worried about the food. Again,your alright! I hope you know that I’m usually joking around.

July 22, 2005 @ 6:06 am | Comment

Richard, looks like you haven’t congratulated comrade MAJ’s new job.

[Comment edited; link has personal information MAJ is using to embarrass me and damange my ability to find future work in China.]

July 22, 2005 @ 6:15 am | Comment

It’s a first step toward his becoming a CCTV-9 news anchorman.

July 22, 2005 @ 6:35 am | Comment

Here is one of the best statements made in response to that article on the China Daily(excluding Conrad).

Xueyin 2005-07-22 20:28
I hesitate to add to this garbage discussion.
Ok, just 2 points:

(1) If some Chinese behaved in the manner as described by MAJones’ blog, then it is good for him to bring it up, even if it offends the sensitivities of other Chinese. “Honesty is best.” With improving economic conditions and better education, the old habits of a poor society will disappear. In every society, the poor always behave in ways which the richer finds embarassing, whether it is Shanghai, Beijing, New York, or London.
But there should not be denial and excuse for not wanting to change those old habits in the days of poverty and lack of basic education.

(2) Criticisms are as unavoidable as predjudices in everyone! It is a matter of degree and discretion. It is pointless to be angry or insulted by critics because if the criticisms were true, then refutation is self-deluding denial. If the criticisms (or even malicious insults) were false, then the reality will be the best refutation.

As a Chinese living in China, I and many others among my circle of friends), find that those who criticize China sometimes are more helpful and genuine friends of China than those “sweet talking” guests of our country, who may for mistakened reasons think that what they say would gratiate themselves with the ntives here.

Millions of Chinese have lived and worked abroad, and are not as parochial as some guests of my China may be aware of.
Less than a decade ago, it is true that our people then to be rather sensitive to criticisms because China was quite isolated still. Now, China is like any country in the world – you have “the good, the bad, and the ugly”!

Ni hao.

July 22, 2005 @ 6:49 am | Comment

the real danger to her is – american foods

american foods convert many slim chinese ladies into a panda in less than 3 months

July 22, 2005 @ 6:57 am | Comment

“… and has unnecessarily jepordised people’s sites, identities and futures”

i have to agree with simon on this, which i didn’t realize before i host MAJ’s 2nd letter. my sincere apoligies to Gordon and Richard if his second letter brings any undesired attention or trouble to you in your life, especially to Gordon, i am really sorry if anything bad happens to you because of this!

July 22, 2005 @ 7:26 am | Comment


While I agree with you, I’m sorry to say that I have noticed many lovely Chinese girls turning into pandas right here in China.

I think I have the equation solved as to why this is happening.

big appetites = more money = more food.

The urban Chinese diet has changed drastically over the last couple of decades thanks to a rising prosperity and as such the waistlines have continued to change too.

With 1.3 billion people and counting, I think CHina will rapidly pass the United States in obesity.

I’m not bashing either, it’s a serious health problem. My mom is almost as big as they come and as a result, she now has diabetes, arthritis, high blood pressure and several other weight related health issues.

China needs nutritionists! Seriously.

July 22, 2005 @ 7:27 am | Comment

Why would anything “bad” happen. In the new China you’re allowed to voice opinions. Right?

July 22, 2005 @ 7:28 am | Comment


big appetites + more money = more food.

July 22, 2005 @ 7:28 am | Comment

“Comment edited; link has personal information MAJ is using to embarrass me and damange my ability to find future work in China”

i noticed that, i advice you to write to CD moderator to modify the post immediately.

July 22, 2005 @ 7:30 am | Comment

hey guys, demonizing MAJ in China Daily site is not the best way for you to thwart him. if you don’t like him, just ignore him or you could attack his letter.

and don’t forget IP addresses can be easily tracked by CD moderators

July 22, 2005 @ 7:42 am | Comment

Why would they want to track them?

July 22, 2005 @ 7:47 am | Comment

Bingfeng is our mole into the minds of the CCP.

July 22, 2005 @ 7:50 am | Comment

“Why would they want to track them?”

just like MAJ using different names to comment will be tracked and caught here

July 22, 2005 @ 7:51 am | Comment

If China’s women start getting fat en masse, you can be sure the National Bureau of Statistics will find a way to add the figures to the GDP.

July 22, 2005 @ 7:51 am | Comment

Ivan, Are you being a nutwhackojackoagain?

July 22, 2005 @ 7:52 am | Comment

“Americans say Chinese are getting fat, only cause Americans jealous of China’s growth!”

July 22, 2005 @ 7:53 am | Comment

Excuse me if my writing becomes even more beligerent and childish.I’m drinkin’ for the first time in QUITE a while.

July 22, 2005 @ 7:55 am | Comment

Wait a moment, while I look up the Chinglish translation of “nutwhackojackojob”….

July 22, 2005 @ 7:55 am | Comment


July 22, 2005 @ 7:55 am | Comment

You never answered my question about Werner Klemperer

July 22, 2005 @ 7:57 am | Comment

If China’s women start getting fat en masse, you can be sure the National Bureau of Statistics will find a way to add the figures to the GDP.

Ivan, that is the funniest thing you have said here on the Duck.

I almost lost beer out of my nose.

July 22, 2005 @ 7:59 am | Comment

Betcha BingFeng couldn’t come up with a good one like that.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:00 am | Comment


why EVERYTHING in America is so big?


July 22, 2005 @ 8:01 am | Comment


July 22, 2005 @ 8:03 am | Comment

now happy hours in Duck place begin, let’s celebrate.

wait a minute, you sure Gordon is safe now? (forgive me)

July 22, 2005 @ 8:04 am | Comment

AM and Gordon,
I’ll join you in a few beers, and by the time I’m done, in a few hours I will accuse EVERYONE here of being unfair and putting words in my mouth and misunderstanding me, and then I will say, “I will no longer be posting here” and stomp away, and then I’ll come back to abuse you all some more.
Now let me get started. It takes me at least two beers before I start behaving that way.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:06 am | Comment




i promise i will invite you for a beer or two when you come to china

July 22, 2005 @ 8:08 am | Comment

BingFeng reminds me of “Tokyo Rose” “Hey, Joe,Y ou can’t win jus giv up k , Joe?”The Chinese and Japanese are almost exactly the same.Thats why they hate each other. Jap’s make better porn, cars,….. well just about everything ,but still the similarities can’t be denied.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:08 am | Comment

I echo Bingfeng’s comments. Let Madge be. he will stew in his own thoughts. There is no reason for us to bother.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:09 am | Comment

correction: B-A-I-J-I-U!

July 22, 2005 @ 8:10 am | Comment

I will never come to China again.La Duzi.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:10 am | Comment

Baijiu is your punishment for being Chinese.”This tastes like horse ovaries mixed with Yak urine”

July 22, 2005 @ 8:12 am | Comment

Like I said Laowai,

I’m just going to chill and enjoy the traffic bumb.

Thanks MAJ!

July 22, 2005 @ 8:14 am | Comment

Bingfeng, If you pay me ,In U.S.D.,I would consider posting on your blog. Give it a little class.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:15 am | Comment

“I will never come to China again.La Duzi.”

the same thing happens when i am in the US … but baijiu will cure your illness, an d i bet you will love it

July 22, 2005 @ 8:15 am | Comment

American Man,

I don’t even want to know why you know what that tastes like.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:15 am | Comment

I knew a foreigner who loved it.He’s dead.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:17 am | Comment

“Bingfeng, If you pay me ,In U.S.D.,I would consider posting on your blog. Give it a little class.”


what if it works the other way?

July 22, 2005 @ 8:17 am | Comment

Someone at the Immigration Department isn’t doing their job. Surprise,surprise.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:18 am | Comment


There is nothing I like about Baijiu. I’ve tried it several times, even the bottles that cost more than 400 rmb taste and smell like crap. uuugghhh!

What do you think about my comment regarding obesity in China?

Next time I’m in Shanghai..I wanna have a beer with you. I have found that the people I disagree with the most are the ones I actually get along with the best (as long as they have a sense of humor)

Just ask Will (Imagetheif)

July 22, 2005 @ 8:19 am | Comment

My way or the highway.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:20 am | Comment

“I knew a foreigner who loved it.He’s dead.”

unlike him, when you dead, you will be put into a china-made coffin … how old are you? if you are too old, i am not so sure you could have the chance to enjoy a china-made coffin, since their market share is only 2% right now

July 22, 2005 @ 8:20 am | Comment

He’s probably P.S.B. Just pay him off.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:21 am | Comment

Maybe that didn’t come out right…

I didn’t mean to insinuate that Will and I disagree on everything. In fact, I think he and I agree on more than we disagree..or at least we find common ground.

Also, Will and I both are people who are capable of putting political differences aside to maintain friendships. (just don’t tell his friends that in SF)

July 22, 2005 @ 8:21 am | Comment

Good morning. Bingfeng, would you consider writing an email to the China Daily people in Chinese telling them I am an anonymous blogger to protect my job, and that they should remove my last name? I’m not being lazy, but think it might have more effect in Chinese…

July 22, 2005 @ 8:21 am | Comment

True story: There’s a local Russian brand of vodka (made somewhere near Arkhangelsk, I think) whose label depicts a man freezing to death in the snow. Cost around one US dollar last time I was there. Never tried it.
American liquor ads say: “Drink this and be sexy and glamorous”
Russian liquor ad says: “Drink this and suffer more!”

July 22, 2005 @ 8:22 am | Comment

“Someone at the Immigration Department isn’t doing their job. Surprise,surprise.”

hehe, both chinese and american immigration didn’t do their job. when did you come to china? i will check who should be responsible for that

July 22, 2005 @ 8:22 am | Comment

S.F. are you implying that Will is a gay, liberal?

July 22, 2005 @ 8:22 am | Comment


Send me an email in English stating what you want to say (or Laoawai).

If I can’t do it, I’ll ask my wife to do it.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:23 am | Comment

Ancient Chinese Secret

July 22, 2005 @ 8:24 am | Comment


I think we call that Dark Eyes in America.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:24 am | Comment

It speaks volumes that China needs white trash,tornado bait like me to help you develope.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:25 am | Comment

“”Good morning. Bingfeng, would you consider writing an email to the China Daily people in Chinese telling them I am an anonymous blogger to protect my job, and that they should remove my last name? I’m not being lazy, but think it might have more effect in Chinese…””

actually i have done that a few minutes ago, cant find email but left a message to CD

i will write it in chinese again

July 22, 2005 @ 8:27 am | Comment

Hey guys, (Ivan, AM)

While I think most of us here on the Duck know that you two are just plain silly, I don’t think those coming over from the Mad MaJ link at the China Daily will comprehend your nutty humor.

Try to refrain from any comments that might lend even the slightest bit of legitimacy to MAJs’ unfounded accusations. Okay?

July 22, 2005 @ 8:29 am | Comment

Do you really write in Chinese or that simplified (Dumbed down) version?

July 22, 2005 @ 8:29 am | Comment

Thanks a lot, BF. You’re a good guy.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:30 am | Comment

Oh, and Gordon, thanks for the offer.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:31 am | Comment

Another “Threat from China”


BEIJING — Communism-crazed leaders in Red China have reportedly embarked on a bizarre new plan to invade America — by digging a tunnel right through the center of the Earth!

A U.S. intelligence source claims that the ambitious, top-secret project is well under way and that Chinese tunnel rats have already dug down a mind-bending 104,000 feet — nearly 20 miles beneath the Earth’s surface.

“If all goes according to plan, within six years they’ll break through on the other side, we believe somewhere in Oklahoma, around the Bartlesville area,” reveals the high-level source at the National Security Agency (NSA).

“Roughly 500 million bloodthirsty, screaming Chinese troops will come pouring out of that hole — hell-bent on a bold mission to conquer the United States, reduce our people to slavery and seize all our women.”

The People’s Tunnel, as the ultra-secret project is known, was originally the brainchild of Chairman Mao Zedong, father of modern-day China.

“Back in the late 1960s, when China and the United States were at each other’s throats, Mao proposed building such a tunnel,” says the source. “But at the time, it just wasn’t technically feasible because the drilling equipment available in China was so primitive. After Nixon went to China and U.S.-Sino relations started to warm up, the plan was put on the back burner.”

But two years ago, Chinese leaders took a fresh look at the idea.

“China has over a billion people and it doesn’t have the resources to feed them,” says the source. “Because of the one-child-per-family policy and widespread abortion for sex-selection, men outnumber women by many times.

“They need grain, they need land — and most of all, they need women.”

Prepare yourself! This week’s “Newsstand Issue” will tell you what you need to do!

July 22, 2005 @ 8:32 am | Comment

Censorship wins! Goodnight.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:32 am | Comment

That’s hilarious LW.

Remember the old saying…”Are you digging to China”

I’ve always wondered where Chinese people dig to.

Do they dig to America?

July 22, 2005 @ 8:34 am | Comment

They’ll mismanage the tunnel and end up in North Korea by mistake.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:45 am | Comment

“Do you really write in Chinese or that simplified (Dumbed down) version?”


you won’t believe it, i write the dumbest chinese – american style chinese, PIN-YIN

July 22, 2005 @ 8:45 am | Comment

“They’ll mismanage the tunnel and end up in North Korea by mistake.”


really funny, thank you, ivan, i will collect this one

July 22, 2005 @ 8:47 am | Comment

LW, where do you find links like that? Jeezus.

Bingfeng, you are not a hanzi calligrapher??

July 22, 2005 @ 8:47 am | Comment

richard, if it doesn’t work, try this:

July 22, 2005 @ 8:48 am | Comment

Maj you win buddyboy!!!! Congatulations.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:49 am | Comment

“Bingfeng, you are not a hanzi calligrapher??”


me? just kidding, i write truely beautiful chinese characters, jsut love it

good nite

July 22, 2005 @ 8:50 am | Comment

I really do wonder what all these people like the maj, uriel, solloway, and all these other cranks and crackpots, did with their time before the internet came along.
Make model railways?
Hang around primary school playgrounds?
Dribble breakfast cereal down their tracksuit tops?
Compulsively masturbate?

July 22, 2005 @ 8:59 am | Comment

All of the above. I also hear Uriel likes to pull the wings off of insects.

July 22, 2005 @ 9:00 am | Comment

haha, good spot.

actually, not sure why i said “used to do” – i’m guessing they STILL do all of the above…

July 22, 2005 @ 9:03 am | Comment

Oh Richard, don’t you understand?
Uriel pulls the wings off of insects because he is trying to “educate” them….

July 22, 2005 @ 9:07 am | Comment

Ivan you are on a roll tonight…

July 22, 2005 @ 9:09 am | Comment

LW not me, obviously.

July 22, 2005 @ 9:23 am | Comment

The explosive used in London bombing was made in China?!

I don’t believe Chinese government would be so stupid as to help to bomb London.

Somebody must be as crazy as those bombers

July 22, 2005 @ 10:30 am | Comment

Again, all roads lead to Bing!

July 22, 2005 @ 10:33 am | Comment

Bing,That would explain the incompetence of the bombing’s.

July 22, 2005 @ 10:34 am | Comment

Yeah AM

Thanks to Chinese made junk (if what the crap said was true), they failed the second time.

What about the first time? Must be some solid gadget made in … you guess.

July 22, 2005 @ 10:39 am | Comment

I’d better go home earlier today.

July 22, 2005 @ 10:41 am | Comment

All blames lead to China, what a world for us Chinese. Damn it.

July 22, 2005 @ 10:42 am | Comment

“If you’re gonna do it, do it right” Have a lovely tea tonight Bing.

July 22, 2005 @ 10:43 am | Comment

Richard,I love this little nugget of wisdom off Yahoo. ” Iraqi forces need more training”—-U.S. General- Ya think?

July 22, 2005 @ 10:48 am | Comment

Thanks I’m gonna do it right home and have a greasy pork pie tonight.

July 22, 2005 @ 10:49 am | Comment

Bing,i f you guys could make more expensive, inferior products we’d all be happy.

July 22, 2005 @ 10:50 am | Comment

What, No steak and kidney for Bing?

July 22, 2005 @ 10:51 am | Comment


“Bing,i f you guys could make more expensive, inferior products we’d all be happy.”

We do make a lot of this stuff but only available for mainland Chinese to enjoy, you foreigners don’t even dream of it.

July 22, 2005 @ 10:53 am | Comment

Like? Fine, young, willing tenders?Been there, done them.

July 22, 2005 @ 10:55 am | Comment

Sometimes I think to myself:”Hey, American Man,:maybe, just maybe, your “humor’ doesn’t translate that well” And then I say to myself: “Fuck em’, fuck em’ all”

July 22, 2005 @ 11:09 am | Comment

Oh, I assume you meant “Fuck Bing, Fuck Bing”.

I didn’t sense the humor from you last post.

How sad that is.

July 22, 2005 @ 11:12 am | Comment

Bing, “I fucks them, I makes loves to you!”

July 22, 2005 @ 11:15 am | Comment

Ah, “The Blue Nowhere”, how liberating!

July 22, 2005 @ 11:20 am | Comment

Welcome with discretion if you were a pretty woman with Roberts’ big mouth and slender thighs (I’m not a big fan of big boobs), which is however obviously not true.

July 22, 2005 @ 11:21 am | Comment

Bing, what are you’re thought’s on Bingfeng? I won’t tell anyone.I promise.

July 22, 2005 @ 11:26 am | Comment

Bing, I am an EXTREMELY obese American male with HUGE weeping pustules.I have not a wit about me. Obviously my grammar/spelling is poor. I think only of myself and I hate all of the “others” Are you interested in my divine light?

July 22, 2005 @ 11:34 am | Comment

You really want my thought? No offense to Bingfeng, the name really remainds me of something he/she might be familar with too.

July 22, 2005 @ 11:36 am | Comment

It would appear that I am babbling to myself yet again.With this Humble, Drunken release…Adieu!

July 22, 2005 @ 11:37 am | Comment

Yes, I want your thought.Tell me.Translate. I am putty in your hands.

July 22, 2005 @ 11:39 am | Comment

That’s the secret between Bing and Bingfeng.

However, I think your Chinese wife might know either. Seriously no kidding, go ask her.

July 22, 2005 @ 11:41 am | Comment

Are you riddling me Bing?

July 22, 2005 @ 11:42 am | Comment

“Bing, I am an EXTREMELY obese American male with HUGE weeping pustules.I have not a wit about me. Obviously my grammar/spelling is poor. I think only of myself and I hate all of the “others” Are you interested in my divine light?”

If this is true, I’m really sorry for your Chinese wife, 90% chance, another Chinese girl wedding for green card.

July 22, 2005 @ 11:43 am | Comment

“Are you riddling me Bing?”

You have done that a lot to me, maybe some others.

I’m not good at it.

July 22, 2005 @ 11:45 am | Comment

Just so she can go to America and meet same with more money?

July 22, 2005 @ 11:45 am | Comment

Bing ,I do NOT speak in riddles. I speak what’s on my, rather limited, mind.

July 22, 2005 @ 11:48 am | Comment

Of course, if what you said is true and you don’t mind, there are always a spate of others in China waiting for her divoicing you to substitute for.

July 22, 2005 @ 11:49 am | Comment

“Bing ,I do NOT speak in riddles. I speak what’s on my, rather limited, mind.”

Sorry, a limited mind is smart enough to riddle a retarded one.

You did screw me up.

July 22, 2005 @ 11:51 am | Comment

Like an abusive Chinese husband?

July 22, 2005 @ 11:54 am | Comment

Like a hunky american vixen

July 22, 2005 @ 12:00 pm | Comment

Bing . America, and ALL societies are fucked up! That is my ( and many other posters’) point here. China’s shit stinks too.We(humans)suck.You guy’s(not you) need to deal with it.

July 22, 2005 @ 12:01 pm | Comment

The fucking up finds its root in the nature of Human beings.

What can you do?

And I’m not that pessimistic. I’m a little man, dreaming of an ordinary life. Not expecting too much makes it easier for you to FEEL satisfied.

July 22, 2005 @ 12:07 pm | Comment

Bing, Ask me a question and I tell you no lies.You simply cannot say that about General Chinese society. I ask my mom,”Hey mom, What did we do to the Native Americans” “Well American man,We fucked em’, yup, we fucked em’ big”

July 22, 2005 @ 12:10 pm | Comment

Bing, True, I think that’s a big difference between Western and Chinese dreams.We expect much, much more out of life.Ordinary….THAT will change my friend!

July 22, 2005 @ 12:14 pm | Comment


It’s far from enough to have the courage to admit what your ancestors did.

You gotta have the courage and the CAPABILITY to handle the shitty mess they left otherwise you are not just pretending yourself but ridiculing the others.

July 22, 2005 @ 12:15 pm | Comment

Bing,I’m not sure of your point.

July 22, 2005 @ 12:20 pm | Comment

Bing wrote,

“If this is true, I’m really sorry for your Chinese wife, 90% chance, another Chinese girl wedding for green card.”

Hey, Bing, I don’t think this accusation is funny; and it is not fair to AM too.

July 22, 2005 @ 12:20 pm | Comment

Take it with context, renxu

July 22, 2005 @ 12:21 pm | Comment


“Bing,I’m not sure of your point.”

Is that all that nowadays Americans don’t avoid discussing the topic of native Americans?

Besides discussion, what else have you done?

July 22, 2005 @ 12:24 pm | Comment

Renxu I think, he was joking.I DO thank you for the back up.You know that we ALL can really get along.I do ( believe it or not) care about Chinese people.This is all a (mostly) joke on my part.

July 22, 2005 @ 12:25 pm | Comment

Joking it was. As I stated in other threads some time ago, I’m 200% possitive with interational marriage between Chinese and foreigners.

July 22, 2005 @ 12:27 pm | Comment

Making the Chinese genes better?

July 22, 2005 @ 12:29 pm | Comment

And now, thank you for your time, I gotta go catch the bus back to my pigeon hole for that pork pie.

July 22, 2005 @ 12:29 pm | Comment

Oh god, are you all still sober, so late at night?
I gotta break out the vodka now, so that I can become drunk enough to start some fights here…. ๐Ÿ™‚
(Um, Gordon, that was a joke….)

July 22, 2005 @ 12:30 pm | Comment

“Making the Chinese genes better?”

Not just for Chinese:

Technical term no offense: Hybrid Advantage.

gotta go now.

July 22, 2005 @ 12:31 pm | Comment

That was a joke.BUT,many Chinese people here have this weird inverse Nazi theory.If you marry a foreigner and have kids they are smarter.I am prone to see that they are more beautiful but smarter?……..

July 22, 2005 @ 12:33 pm | Comment

Ivan,Youse gots Vodka?

July 22, 2005 @ 12:36 pm | Comment

Ivan. Me Drunk now. I go watch Slayer video. Hell Await’s!

July 22, 2005 @ 12:40 pm | Comment

U mnya, yest sto gram.
But if you share 100 grams of vodka with a Russian, you must link arms and toast “Bruderschaft” (brotherhood) and then kiss each other three times.
Oh, American Man, on the FACE! Kiss three times on the FACE, not where you were thinking of….

July 22, 2005 @ 12:42 pm | Comment

Oh god, what will China Daily think of this?

July 22, 2005 @ 12:43 pm | Comment

WHO give’s a fuck?

July 22, 2005 @ 12:45 pm | Comment

Richard, a friend send that link to me.

July 22, 2005 @ 12:56 pm | Comment

” I am just a poor boy and my story’s seldom told, I hav…” No culture My ass!

July 22, 2005 @ 2:37 pm | Comment

I don’t believe Chinese government would be so stupid as to help to bomb London.

Somebody must be as crazy as those bombers

I’d like to agree with you Bing, but I seem to remember all those Chinese weapons that were discovered to have been provided to the Taliban for fighting the US.

I also remember that Chinese silkworm missile that was used by terrorists to attack Americans in Kuwait some time back….

The list goes on and on…

July 22, 2005 @ 7:18 pm | Comment

what shit is this gordan? you’re disagreeing with Bing? ie you’re suggesting that China paid for / put together the London bombings? imbecelic!! angelic in its innocence and naivete, but imbecelic nevertheless.
ps … we are all allowed to break our vows of silence!!!
pps: analyse the logic of your sentence gordon.
bingfeng is aying he doesn’t belive the chinese would help bomb london. you say you disagree!!!
ppps … I love it when an exclamation mark or 3 comes together.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:00 pm | Comment

I don’t think the Chinese helped in any way to bomb London. Whether the bombs that were used were made in China – that’s quite possible. But what does that mean? After all, the chemical weapons Saddam used in 1991 were made by the US and sold to him by Donald Rumsfeld in the Reagan era.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:22 pm | Comment

hello richard.
I know I made some grumpy remarks earlier about your site. hope you don’t mind my backtracking and finding myself compelled to comment just now!
tougher than quitting smoking, is keeping away from TPD.
you’re clear that the recent unpleasantness publicly regarding TPD etc is grossly distasteful to me?

July 22, 2005 @ 8:30 pm | Comment

Yes, thanks KLS. You and I disagree on lots of things, but I respect your integrity. MAJ simply made a convenience of you, the way he did of me and everyone else he encounters. I presume you saw what he did on China Daily yesterday?

I am closing this thread, which has become way too long. Let’s move all conversations up to the new thread. Thanks.

Update: Okay, open for a little while longer so we can complete the conversation.

July 22, 2005 @ 8:38 pm | Comment

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