After-work thread

It has been a long day. Time to kick back with some conversation.

The Discussion: 167 Comments

I’ll start by saying I’ve added a Creative Commons license to this blog, so if any renegade English psychotherapist-writers try to steal my priceless intellectual property they may well be awakened in the middle of the night by the CCP’s Stasi and carted off to a windowless cell. So if you’re thinking of stealing, ask yourself whether you want to struggle-session your life away in solitary confinement, feasting on moldy duck necks, maggot-infested rice and greenbrackish water for the rest of your life! It’s no fun – just ask Judy Miller.

July 6, 2005 @ 7:00 pm | Comment

Will there be burly guards?

July 6, 2005 @ 7:09 pm | Comment


Keep your eyes on Laowai’s blog. I sent him a screenshot of the IP registration prompt that I received once I tried to log into my blog from an internet cafe.

He just has to try to figure out how to get the image from the .rtf file.

Anyway, here’s what happened. Since I turned my laptop over last night to an intel tech to see if he could recover the data from my other hard drive I had to come to an internet bar. Everything was fine while I was just surfing the net, but when I tried to log into my blog a little window popped up that gave me three options, none of which would allow me to continue without registering the IP address.

I was able to just move it aside and continue for awhile before it closed the page.


July 6, 2005 @ 7:13 pm | Comment

Gordon, Chinese IS Changing! Maybe your grandchildren will be allowed to think.In the meantime.Just go back to sleep.It’s all being taken care of.

July 6, 2005 @ 7:17 pm | Comment

I can’t go to sleep. I was awakened at 7am by some little twit wanting to play kissy face.

not cute.

July 6, 2005 @ 7:22 pm | Comment

Thailand is the place for little boys.

July 6, 2005 @ 7:23 pm | Comment

Well why aren’t you there AM? ๐Ÿ˜›

July 6, 2005 @ 7:52 pm | Comment

aiya! I fogot, you like fat Chinese girls ๐Ÿ˜‰

There’s a chunky one here in this net bar that sure looks yummy.

July 6, 2005 @ 7:53 pm | Comment

The Grass IS always greener!

July 6, 2005 @ 7:58 pm | Comment

In a few more years I will have to go to America for the “thin” girls. Da Chinese ARE packin’ on da kilo’s.

July 6, 2005 @ 8:01 pm | Comment

At least they don’t walk around with cigarette in their mouths while slurping on a 44oz soft drink cup filled with diet coke from the local gas station.

That too may change though…

July 6, 2005 @ 8:11 pm | Comment

I went to a 7/11 in Guangzhou.So there is hope.I REALLY MISS WHITE TRASH.They are sooo charming.

July 6, 2005 @ 8:13 pm | Comment

You know that’s the reason why we have such big pickup trucks in America….to haul our women around.

July 6, 2005 @ 8:23 pm | Comment

Just much, much ,much, more to love.

July 6, 2005 @ 8:27 pm | Comment

Well, once you get your wife back to the States you’ll have a chunky honey in no time at all after she startes eating American food with her Chinese appetite.

July 6, 2005 @ 8:35 pm | Comment

“Western food is not D Lish Urse”

July 6, 2005 @ 8:39 pm | Comment

Neither is chopsuey from a Chinese restaurant in America.

July 6, 2005 @ 8:44 pm | Comment

Ever hear that parody song..”Cat’s in the kettle at the Peking Moon?”

July 6, 2005 @ 8:45 pm | Comment

The big cities have good/great Chinese food.LA/NY/SF/Chi-town etc…But for the most part it sucks.Also most of the “Chinese” food is Cantonese.She won’t eat that either.ONLY Sichuan food is D Lish Urse.Thai food is” Dirty”. Indian food is “Dirty” What a limiting life the Chinese choose to lead.It’s sad really.

July 6, 2005 @ 8:49 pm | Comment

Er….Nope…Hum me a few bars….

July 6, 2005 @ 8:50 pm | Comment

DId you ever think when you eat chinese
It ain’t pork or chicken but a fat siamese?
Yet the food tastes great so you don’t complain
But that’s not chicken in your chicken chow mein
Seems to me I ordered sweet and sour pork
But Garfield’s on my fork
He’s purrin’ here on my fork

There’s a cat in the kettle at the Peking Moon
The place that I eat every day at noon
They can feed you cat and you’ll never know
Once they wrap it up in dough boys
They fry it real crisp in dough.

Chow Lin asked if I wanted more
As he was diallin’ up his buddy at the old pet store
I said “Not today, I lost my appetite”
There’s two cats in my belly and they want to fight.

I was suckin on a roll-aid and a tums or two
When I swear I heard it mew boy
And that is when I knew

There’s a cat in the kettle at the Peking Moon
I think I gotta stop eating there at noon
They say that it’s beef or fish or pork
But it’s purrin there on my fork
There’s a hairball on my fork

July 6, 2005 @ 8:54 pm | Comment

Richard, What is Tucson like? Is it better than Phoenix? I’m looking for a new place to call home in America.

July 6, 2005 @ 8:55 pm | Comment

That’s a racist stereotype!My ex and I were eating at a Chinese joint.She is (gasp)Japanese American.Anyway we hear dogs barking.We put our ears to the wall and it’s sounded exactly like a kennel.We laughed and laughed.

July 6, 2005 @ 9:01 pm | Comment

AM, Tucson is cooler and a lot more hip than Phoenix – more artistic. But still, it’s in the fucking desert, so be prepared to fry.

July 6, 2005 @ 9:02 pm | Comment

And to whomever wrote that “poem,” it is truly gross. Well done!

July 6, 2005 @ 9:03 pm | Comment

My folks live there.On one of those old fart reservations.It looked to have potential.Real close to old Mexico too.

July 6, 2005 @ 9:04 pm | Comment

Sorry Richard, didn’t mean to post those lyrics anonymously.

I think Weird Al is the one who actually wrote that song.

How are those scorpions in Tucson?

Or is that just New Mexico?

July 6, 2005 @ 9:06 pm | Comment

My Chinese brother in-law is going to Malaysia.I made him a big pot of Malay coco curry.He would’nt EVEN taste it.I said “What are you gonna eat on your trip? “Chinese food!”AM”Why”BIL”Malay food is not D lish urse”AM”How do you know”BIL”Because Chinese food is THE most D Lish Urse in the world”He has NEVER TRIED ANY OTHER FOOD IN THE WORLD ONLY SICHUAN! How do you reason with this “thinking?”This goes for almost anything different.

July 6, 2005 @ 9:11 pm | Comment

I think that the French could really appreciate Weird Al.In America we always overlook our greatest contributions to world culture.Until they are dead. Maybe if someone would kill Weird Al……..

July 6, 2005 @ 9:19 pm | Comment

I’m having some Malay curry for lunch now and for dinner and breakfast and lunch and dinner and…………

July 6, 2005 @ 9:43 pm | Comment

Where are all the other ducklings this morning? Don’t tell me they got a life? ๐Ÿ˜›

July 6, 2005 @ 9:44 pm | Comment

Looks like the thread has only been opened about 3 hours and already has more than 30 comments. That’s more comments than most blogs get in a week. So I wouldn’t complain. Richard, keep the open threads coming.

July 6, 2005 @ 9:48 pm | Comment

They must not actually live in China.If I was home now i’d be watchin’ me some Oprah!She tells me what to do.I do it!My mom actually takes her’s like a cult or something.Maybe the Chinese should be more worried about Da Big O!

July 6, 2005 @ 9:48 pm | Comment

Ben, relax. I was joking.

July 6, 2005 @ 9:56 pm | Comment

It’s okay, Gordon, I was kind of joking too. I’m glad I found this place, it’s a good place to hang out while I am pretending to work.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:01 pm | Comment

Work is 99% boredom and 1% sheer terror!I don’t advise this drastic course of action.Play mahjong.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:04 pm | Comment

AM: Malaysian cooking (including Nonya/Malaysian Chinese cooking) is one of god’s gifts to the world. And I’m not religious, so that should let you know how much I like it. If your brother-in-law won’t try Malaysian food, I suggest immediat electroshock therapy.

Richard: Congrats on the big change. The world will survive with one less tech flack (although I am sure the factory in Detroit that churns us out is still going). Perhaps the very slight increase in scarcity will drive my market value up ten or twenty cents per year. In Beijing, that’s a beer, so don’t sniff.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:04 pm | Comment

Guys, on that note I am going to lie down and watch South Park and think about my future in Asia. Ben, get back to work. Gordon, stop complaining. (Just kidding!!) Martyn, Lisa, FSN9, Conrad – where the hell are you?

Thanks guys. Good night, and play nice. (And AM, please try to confine your hilariously snarky comments to the open thread so as not to disrupt the somber and academic tone of the “serious” threads! G’nite.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:05 pm | Comment

i don’t mean to be immature, but i have seen a lot of reports by that guy who wrote “Acceptance of rights replacing reflex fear of protests” in the post below. his name is “shi ting.” if i was him, i would take on an english name, one that looks less like “shitting,” when he writes reports in english.
hopefully that’s just pinyin, and isn’t his english name. if that’s his english name, he could team up with my friend rainbow and have a child called “shi ting rainbow.”

July 6, 2005 @ 10:07 pm | Comment

Will, I tried it!

July 6, 2005 @ 10:08 pm | Comment

I have a Thai friend called Bum Fuk!She is real boneable too.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:10 pm | Comment

No sweat Ben.


I stand corrected. A few weeks ago we debated as to whether or not Chinese actually have to sign in and out at the net bars and while I never really noticed it before…they do.

I’ve been sitting here in this net bar since my wife woke up up smooching on my nose and at this particular net bar they use smart cards. The buy the card from the front desk, show their identification, fill out the paperwork and then continue to use the smart card whenever they come in. It works just like the city bus cards.


July 6, 2005 @ 10:12 pm | Comment

Gordon,I thought it was the Thai boy.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:14 pm | Comment

Kevin, you were only stating the obvious. I have often thought the same thing whenever I have seen that name. I thought it was just a typeo.

I am forever running into English and Chinese words that come out in a humorous manner.

For wife and I were in a restaurant awhile back and she told me that she had to go “number 1″. I looked at her with the waitress standing beside me and said…”go pee”. The waitress heard “gou pi” and began laughing furiously.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:16 pm | Comment

AM, please don’t pick on me. I’m a sensitive guy and you migh hurt my feeling.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:18 pm | Comment

Well, where’s KLS. A man’s gotta eat!

July 6, 2005 @ 10:19 pm | Comment

If there was a nuclear war the Chinese would ALL still go to lunch at noon.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:24 pm | Comment

I somehow managed to screw up the tags on the previous comment. Here it is again. Feel free to delete the mess above Richard.



Chinese hackers have defaced the website of the police-run security company leading a new effort to strengthen government control over the Internet.

The attack against the website of Beijing General Security Service came amid its drive to recruit a corps of 4,000 ‘Internet security guards’ to monitor the online activities of people in Beijing.

‘A security company that cannot even protect its own website can hardly talk about security,’ the hackers wrote in a notice that appeared on the site’s news section last week.

And it seems the security guys are mightily pissed off about it:

‘Agents of hostile forces at home and abroad are using the Internet to engage in propaganda, infiltration, incitement and sabotage,’ an official of Beijing General Security said.
‘Strengthening management of the Internet is of special significance for the strengthening of the party’s ability to govern.

Double heh.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:28 pm | Comment

My bro-in-law is hockin’ up large loooooooog today.5,000 years and counting.Time flies when your not thinkin’.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:33 pm | Comment

AM/Gordon: do you work? Or does Richard pay you to fill his open threads?

No, wait I know…the good doctor pays you both!

July 6, 2005 @ 10:43 pm | Comment

I am “between jobs.”Summer school next week.Charming screaming cabbages and hateful Chinese Colleagues who ACT as if they like you. Cannot wait!

July 6, 2005 @ 10:47 pm | Comment

BTW, The good “Doc” IS pretty fly for an octogenarian.I got a thing for cellulite.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:51 pm | Comment

Martyn, Lisa, FSN9, Conrad – where the hell are you?

Speaking for myself, I just got home – it’s about 9:45 pm. I had a tough day. I have this whole bizarre employee situation going on that I won’t get into here (because I don’t blog about work, work takes up enough hours in the week, you know?). But suffice it to say, the whole thing has been really stressful on a lot of levels.

So I went out with a good buddy of mine who is doing a lot of really cool and interesting things and also has a fair amount of stress. We went to our favorite tapas bar and discussed at length. Now I’m going to go take maybe a 45 minute shower.

Ugghhh….I really relate to Richard’s recent employment dilemna, and truthfully, my job is pretty damn cool on just about every level. But it’s almost always a compromise. Right now I’m on a sort of vague five year plan. I have to say, this has been perhaps the first time in my life where I’ve felt secure enough about what I’m doing to even MAKE a five year plan. So really, it’s all pretty good in my little universe. Still, I plan for that day when I can write full time and make a living at it, have my current place in Venice and my second home in, I dunno, Ireland or China, depending on the politics of it all.

So that’s my story. Hope all of you guys are doing well. It’s been really great – more so than I can say – to have you all as e-friends.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:51 pm | Comment

GO TO IRELAND! Unless you have a self-hatred thing.

July 6, 2005 @ 10:55 pm | Comment

uum, guys..have you actually read the cc non-commercial license? as long as someone quotes the appropriate person and does not make any money off it, they are free to use anything they want just about however they please…

in other news, I think the good doctor must have high up connections, I just saw a silhouette of a muscly guy with an expanded flashing diagram of his internal masculine workings. on cctv. oh my.

July 6, 2005 @ 11:02 pm | Comment

Echo, When I think, I think of you.

July 6, 2005 @ 11:04 pm | Comment

well am, it’s good for me, you, and your wife that you thinking doesn’t happen too often ๐Ÿ˜‰

July 6, 2005 @ 11:14 pm | Comment

Echo – I’ve sent the CC people an email asking how a licence applies for academic research.

July 6, 2005 @ 11:18 pm | Comment


July 6, 2005 @ 11:18 pm | Comment

oh here we go with this doctor thing again.
i wouldn’t worry about this, cuz there isn’t a doctor, so there won’t be an essay, so there’s no need to worry about it.
unless mark writes the essay.
that is all so ridiculous, trust me.

July 6, 2005 @ 11:21 pm | Comment

simon – I suspect that it’s an open door, but I’m looking forward to hearing for sure.

also, I’m still trying to figure out if the license applies to comments as well, or just the work of the author. as, technically, he’s the only one with the cc license. if we read it as the license applies to the entire site one could interpret that to mean richard has a license on all our words as well, which is a bit counterintuitive. if not, to be protected one would likely have to put a cc lic tag at the end of each post….

July 6, 2005 @ 11:28 pm | Comment

What Kevin said…

July 6, 2005 @ 11:30 pm | Comment

kevin – nuttin to do with the doc on the duck cause richard didn’t get the cc lic till after the show.. just looks like richard and gordon are assuming that the cc lic ‘covers’ them from a lot of things which it doesn’t appear to. personally I just like reading legal documents ; )

July 6, 2005 @ 11:35 pm | Comment

If we really have to bring this up again, here is dr. anne:
“Take Mr Jones’ argument regarding the nature of the Iraqi insurgency for example: his views on this matter are very complex and intelligent, and are actually shared by many… Most readers on Peking Duck clearly do not even understand his position…But as I said, he is brave for expressing his views here on this site, and for that I award him the Purple Cross.”
it’s mark, the doctor does not exist, forget it.

July 6, 2005 @ 11:38 pm | Comment

oh but sorry, i didn’t mean to try to stop the conversation dead in its tracks.

July 6, 2005 @ 11:51 pm | Comment

It’s so nice to be missed. I think it’s my superiority complex.

Actually, I’m really busy trying to tie up loose ends before I go to New Zealand. I’ll be off from the 9th-23rd. I’ll still pop in here now and then, but don’t expect any long posts.

Did anybody read my comment in the “Chinese view of Mao” thread? ๐Ÿ™
The thread seemed to have died by the time I read it.

July 6, 2005 @ 11:56 pm | Comment

is it me or are kevin and pete one and the same?

but as for the cc license itself or any license, if you put words into the public domain surely other people are allowed to quote from them? not copy and paste them and pass them off as their own, or sell them as a collection, but quote from them for the purpose of illustration or comment.
if I publish a novel I can’t stop a reviewer quoting chunks of it in a review — regardless of whether the reviewer is getting paid or not.

July 7, 2005 @ 12:00 am | Comment

not that I publish novels or anything

July 7, 2005 @ 12:02 am | Comment

“is it me or are kevin and pete one and the same?”
KLS, excellent way to distract attention from the argument that mark is clearly dr. anne.
judging by these methods, i’m guessing you have spent plenty of time in china and mastered the chinese art of argument through “changing the subject.” xinhua would be proud, my man!

July 7, 2005 @ 12:39 am | Comment

with this cc a paid reviewer would have to get your permission first, but other than that you’re spot on I think.

but that might be a strange read. if richard starts making money off his website and quotes (with attribution of course) someone else’s blog that has a cc lic, technically he’d be violating their license…

July 7, 2005 @ 12:43 am | Comment

Na, we are not. Kevin is decidedly less nasty than I am.

Am and Ivan
If the shoe fits….
As to Ivan, I did ask if there were 2 of you and also why you made such scurrilous comments about me. No replies. If you take credit for the attack don’t bother replying.

Mark Anthony
I call it like I see it.

July 7, 2005 @ 1:04 am | Comment

yeah, i don’t know pete.
and i don’t agree with his comments on american man and ivan. they’re my homies.
but pete’s my homie too for calling out MAJ.

July 7, 2005 @ 1:10 am | Comment

echo, I was being totally facetious about the CC license. I don’t think it protects me from anything, and they seem to be universally ignored. I put it on mainly because someone in the earlier thread suggested I do so, but I don’t really expect to ever use it.

July 7, 2005 @ 1:22 am | Comment

Kevin, if you think Shi Ting is bad, check this one out.

July 7, 2005 @ 1:39 am | Comment

on a recent trip, one of my co-workers had a bag with “SHITON G” written really big on it. i kept joking that i should write the letter G on the ground and see what happened.

July 7, 2005 @ 1:52 am | Comment

ouch, that singapore professor’s name sounds great, but i can’t open up his webpage from here. maybe the page changed? or perhaps china does not want me to do research into shit chewing?

July 7, 2005 @ 1:56 am | Comment

Dear Pete and Kevin,

This is the last time I am going to comment on this issue, as I will be out of the office all day tomorrow attending an education expo, and I have to fly up to Tianjin and Jilin next week to deliver a series of powerpoint seminars. I will resume my normal stream of comments when I get back to Shenzhen though, in a week from now.

But for now, let me just repeat what I have already asserted earlier: Dr Anne Myers and I are not one and the same person! You challenge me Pete, to prove that I am not. Well I am sorry, but I believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty, and so it is up to you to prove that I am. Not the other way round.

If I wanted to write under a different name in order to attack my critics, as you surmise, then I can assure you Pete, that youwould have been right up there at the top of the list. I noticed however, that Dr. Myers didn’t bother mentioning you at all – probably, I expect, because you don’t constitute a significant voice on this site. Not one worth commenting on, it would seem.

You can respond by merely repeating your charge, or by insulting me further with more of your acerbic “charm”, but I’m not going to respond to either you or Kevin on this issue any further. I have far more important things to do and to write about, than to waste my time trying to defend myself against such ridiculous allegations.

I hope you both have a pleasant weekend nevertheless.

Mark Anthony Jones

July 7, 2005 @ 3:12 am | Comment

hey norman, i’m not the one who brought it up, i don’t wanna talk about it either

July 7, 2005 @ 3:26 am | Comment

otherMark Anthony
I am not interested in belaboring this matter. However, it is curious for you to say Dr. Anne and you are not one and the same, when you have also said Dr. Anne is fictitious. So now I have to ask you if you are the writer of Dr. Anne’s comments.

Another curiousity in your comment; only if you are charge with a c rime are you granted the presumption of innocence. We here are only debating and as far as I know no one is accusing
you that, certainly not me. Your credibility in the civil arena is being challenged. Usually, people who can defend themselves try to do so. There is no 5th Amendment here.

One thing I do notice with respect is that you are gracious.

July 7, 2005 @ 5:26 am | Comment

KLS – you alright? London was just hit with 6 bombs.

July 7, 2005 @ 5:45 am | Comment

Here we go again. My son is in London and reported in saying he was okay.

Anyone heard who the perpetrators are? Al Quada or some group protesting G-8?

July 7, 2005 @ 5:45 am | Comment

Mark Anthoney:
Forget the “other.”

It seems you guys who are interested in pot, missed the suppliers in HK.

July 7, 2005 @ 5:57 am | Comment

Can someone shed some light on the situation of Robert Novac, now that Judith Miller is in jail for refusing to divulge.

Isn’ t Novac the reporter who made the first public disclosure about Plame based on information from government people? I am curious why he is not being put to the test of talking to a grand jury? Or maybe he has, but I missed it.

July 7, 2005 @ 6:15 am | Comment

Glad to hear your son reported in pete. Nobody needs that kind of worry.

I’m listening to BBC Radio Five Live now, so far, there’s only been this statement:

“A previously unknown group “Secret Group of al Qaeda’s Jihad in Europe” claimed responsibility for a series of blasts in London that killed at least two people and wounded 185, the Italian news agency ANSA reported.

However, the radio says that the police are expecting more bombs.

I received several SMS messages from friends just before and I thought the day that we’ve been dreading since 9/11 has finally arrived. I know it’s an awful thing to say but I’m relieved that the death rate is so low.

Who do we have in London? Only KLS I think.

July 7, 2005 @ 7:18 am | Comment

I missed the open thread on the topic of drugs in China, thought I’d append a belated note …

Pot is not common in Shangtown, but who cares when h@sh is so readily available, and at very reasonable prices.

About a year ago a friend clued me into the location of a head shop in Shanghai. Yes, a head shop! Okay, it was more like a “head shop section” in a trendy clothing store, but nonetheless, there it was: a glass counter fully stocked with all manner of pipes, b0ngs, and other smoking paraphenalia. I was very surprised.

I’m sometimes amused to see c@nnabis-themed clothing on locals. One time I could not resist stopping a middle-aged mom-type to ask if she was aware that the large leaf sillouhuette on her t-shirt was “dama” (she was surprised, but didn’t seem at all bothered).

July 7, 2005 @ 7:31 am | Comment

Thanks. A big relief.

July 7, 2005 @ 7:33 am | Comment

What a nightmare to wake up to another attack…. More than 40 dead already, they’re saying.

July 7, 2005 @ 7:37 am | Comment

Pete, no one knows whether Novak talked or not. My suspicion is he gave the Plame prosecutors what they wanted so he doesn’t need to hang out in jail. Here’s a good article on this specific topic.

July 7, 2005 @ 7:57 am | Comment

I haven’t heard anything about 40 dead Richard although there are about that many or perhaps slightly more in intensive care so the death toll is expected to rise.

Still, we’re lucky, the Madrid bombings claimed 191 lives/1800 injured.

If these bombs were the work of an Al Queda-inspired group and if this is the best they can do, then we’ve either been extremely fortunate or the anti-terror initiatives since 2001 have taken their toll on the terror network. I like to think it’s the latter.

Fortunately, Londoners are of sturdy constitution as they had to live with 30 of IRA terror which included some horrific bombings.

The biggest problem at the moment is that it’s the middle of the afternoon and the entire transport system is down. It’ll be chaos later when people try to get home.

July 7, 2005 @ 7:58 am | Comment

Update: 2 confirmed deaths (BBC Radio 5)

July 7, 2005 @ 7:59 am | Comment

Watching CNN live right now, saying minimum 40 dead; can you get onto They say the same. But there sure is a lot of confusion.

Just changed the number of confirmed dead to 43.

July 7, 2005 @ 8:03 am | Comment

From msnbc:

LONDON – At least 40 people were killed in the explosions that ripped through three London subway trains and a bus on Thursday, according to a U.S. law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because British officials have yet to make public the death toll.

The near simultaneous explosions caused more than 300 injuries in what Prime Minister Tony Blair said was a “barbaric” terrorist attack.

U.S. authorities learned of the fatalities from their British counterparts, according to the official.

The explosions came a day after London was awarded the 2012 Olympics and as the Group of Eight summit was getting under way in Scotland.

The blasts went off between 8:30 and 9:30 a.m. local time. Implementing an emergency plan, authorities immediately shut down the subway and bus lines that log 8.4 million passenger trips every weekday. It brought the cityโ€™s transportation system to a standstill and left many central London streets deserted.

London police chief Sir Ian Blair said authorities had not received any warning. “We have been at a very high state of alert. Of course if there had been any kind of specific warnings we would have dealt with it,” he said.

July 7, 2005 @ 8:06 am | Comment

“It’ll be chaos later when people try to get home.”

Memories of New York on September 11.

July 7, 2005 @ 8:08 am | Comment

Thanks, there’s none of that talk on Britain’s premier news radio station, Five Live. We’ll have to wait and see what comes out.

Police are saying that, in addition to the claims of responsibility from Al Queda supporting groups, the bombings are consistent with previous attacks by Islamic terrorist groups. I.e. rush hour attacks with no warnings, the emphasis being on slaughtering as many people as possible.

Thanks for the news report. Please update if you hear anything new.

July 7, 2005 @ 8:13 am | Comment

I suppose this is one time when the tens of thousands of CCTV cameras around London might come in handy. The police are very confident that they’ll be able to release photos of the numerous suspects as the blasts occurred in Tube stations and main roads.

I really hope the people who did this are brought to justice. I think there’s a good chance that they will be.

July 7, 2005 @ 8:26 am | Comment

I hope you’re right. These are unbelievably wicked people, the scum of the earth. But they are damned good at what they do. May they burn in hell forever, and then some.

July 7, 2005 @ 8:37 am | Comment

This site is updating rapidly. Showing 45 dead as of a few minutes ago…

Reuters AlertNet

Stay strong

July 7, 2005 @ 8:42 am | Comment

I just realized my great-aunt (mother’s sister) is vacationing in London. I’m sure she’s fine, but it makes me wonder what she’s going through.

July 7, 2005 @ 8:43 am | Comment

Now 33 confirmed dead officially, but definitely more fatalities on the ripped-up bus, bodies not counted yet. I have to go to work….

July 7, 2005 @ 8:53 am | Comment

Lots of good links to London bloggers writing about the attacks:

July 7, 2005 @ 9:08 am | Comment

Sam, Mark, much appreciated. Thanks for the links.

July 7, 2005 @ 9:21 am | Comment

Bit early to say. Every report I hear quotes a different number of people dead, and even different numbers of explosions.

And … if the numbers killed are only a few dozen … all I can say is that this is a pretty pathetic terrorist attack, by UK standards. I mean, the British have seen far worse inflicted on them by the IRA. Of course it’s awful for those injured and killed … but it’s not going to do anything much to the UK nation, except perhaps harden their resolve and send more troops.

July 7, 2005 @ 9:24 am | Comment

I think you’re right No9.

Just reading Reuter Alert, there’s no way on this earth that only 2 people have lost their lives bearing in mind the wreckage left behind.

I’m hoping the final death toll will be restricted to several dozen only and I think we were lucky to get away with that.

July 7, 2005 @ 9:35 am | Comment

Morning all! I am impressed with all the heavy topics here, but nice blog. I am a Chinese, but I got a feeling that most of people here are more Chinese than I am. I guesss one can be a Chinese but not Chinese enough.

July 7, 2005 @ 9:36 am | Comment

bastards those terrorists.

July 7, 2005 @ 10:03 am | Comment

Finally, the BBC are reporting 33 confirmed deaths. HOWEVER, this only includes the dead from two of the London Underground train bombs.

The most devastating attack, on a packed double-decker bus which destroyed the entire upper deck of the vehicle, has not yet been included in the body-count.

Police have just issued a statement reporting that initial investigations at the scene of the bus bombing reveal that the blast almost certainly involved a suicide bomber.

July 7, 2005 @ 10:12 am | Comment

What’s the answer? How can we SOLVE the problem? It’s CLEAR America’s war in Iraq is NOT working… but can someone explain what we can/should do… I just got a Satellite Dish installed in my Beijing Apt… and the FIRST thing I see is the London news… Something for the students to debate in class tomorrow…

July 7, 2005 @ 10:20 am | Comment

Too soon to say of course, but I’m inclined to believe suicide bombers were involved. Cell phones don’t work in the London tube, according to UK expat Andrew Sullivan (and he’s got some great stuff at his blog about the whole thing), so they probably weren’t remotely detonated.

Of course, my president sounds like a dreary, broken record: We will find those who did this and bring them to justice. We will spread an ideology of freedom to counter their ideology of hatered. Same thing he said back in 2001, only back then some of us believed him.

July 7, 2005 @ 10:21 am | Comment

Kevin, obviously there’s no simlpe answer. Isn’t it time to face the fact that the invasion of iraq only made things worse in every conceivable way, spreading us thin, taking us off the primary target and inciting more and more angry Muslims to join Al Qaeda? And now our “resolve” and our insistence on “staying the course” will increase, keeping the vicious circle going God knows how long. And as far as that goes, I have absolutely no solution. Bush got us into this clusterfuck and there is absolutely no way out that I can envision. Permanent war, permanent terrorism and permanent misery.

July 7, 2005 @ 10:32 am | Comment

fine thank you folks.
though walking home through the centre of london this afternoon was wierd. almost no traffic! certainly no buses, no trucks or vans, just a few taxis and all those occupied.
on the other hand, of course, plenty of people walking home. and — cheery is too strong a word, but people weren’t walking in a stunned silence, they were chatting, joking (a lot of people blame the french being angry because they lost the olympics!!).
everybody knew it was coming. hopefully the next one, if it comes, won’t be for a long time.
note, though, I’m not speaking for or about those caught up right in the actual blasts. must’ve been nasty.

July 7, 2005 @ 10:32 am | Comment

although your fXXXing president (and I know many of you don’t like him) has no right using it for propaganda “war on terror” BS.

July 7, 2005 @ 10:34 am | Comment

It’s weird. I had this horrible intuition when I heard that London had gotten the Olympics.

How terrible.

July 7, 2005 @ 10:39 am | Comment

Glad you’re safe KLS. Yes, I’m listening to Five Live, the streets sound eerie. Blair just spoke live about 5 minutes ago and sounded devastated. I think the deaths are only now just beginning to sink in.

I heard Bush speaking as well just now but let’s not get into his comments right at the moment, there’s plenty of time to discuss it after we’ve learned of the final body count. I don’t think now is the best time for strong opinions and/or arguing no matter how angry one feels.

July 7, 2005 @ 10:43 am | Comment

Martyn, did you hear Ken Livingstone? for those of you who don’t know (ie most) he’s the mayor of london, long-time left-winger, previously exhibited a dubious ambivalence towards the IRA. but he was excellent, 100 times better than Blair’s first comments at lunchtime — Blair looked like he was going to cry, looked really nervous, head jerking all over the place.
as for fatalities, looks like 50 max. then again these numbers always go up & up don’t they?

July 7, 2005 @ 10:48 am | Comment

Yes, I was impressed by Ken as well, he spoke for the whole London I thought and did it very eloquently and from the heart.

I voted for him all those years ago.

July 7, 2005 @ 10:58 am | Comment

Re numbers going up and up, it may do in this case as it’s fairly small-scale compared to NY and even Madrid but I remember some of the estimates in the aftermath in September 2001. Thanks goodness they eventually came down.

July 7, 2005 @ 11:00 am | Comment

“Finally, I wish to speak directly to those who came to London today to take life.

I know that you personally do not fear giving up your own life in order to take others – that is why you are so dangerous. But I know you fear that you may fail in your long-term objective to destroy our free society and I can show you why you will fail.

In the days that follow look at our airports, look at our sea ports and look at our railway stations and, even after your cowardly attack, you will see that people from the rest of Britain, people from around the world will arrive in London to become Londoners and to fulfil their dreams and achieve their potential.

They choose to come to London, as so many have come before because they come to be free, they come to live the life they choose, they come to be able to be themselves. They flee you because you tell them how they should live. They don’t want that and nothing you do, however many of us you kill, will stop that flight to our city where freedom is strong and where people can live in harmony with one another. Whatever you do, however many you kill, you will fail.”

not only that, but we’re thrashing the australians in the cricket!

July 7, 2005 @ 11:03 am | Comment

Chinese hail the London bombing: not much love lost for Britons

July 7, 2005 @ 11:15 am | Comment

well bellevue, if an angry Uigyur blew up a bus in beijing I’m sure certain wise heads would nod and say beijing had it coming…

July 7, 2005 @ 11:23 am | Comment

Chinese media are largely mute on the following statement, of which China is an official sponsor, according to Downing Street.

My reading is that while lip-servicing the G8, China does not want to send a ‘wrong’ message to domestic audience to undermine CCP’s ‘patriotic education’.

Statement by the G8, the Leaders of Brazil, China, India, Mexico and South Africa and the Heads of the International Organisations represented here.

We condemn utterly these barbaric attacks. We send our profound condolences to the victims and their families. All of our countries have suffered from the impact of terrorism. Those responsible have no respect for human life. We are united in our resolve to confront and defeat this terrorism that is not an attack on one nation, but on all nations and on civilised people everywhere.

We will not allow violence to change our societies or our values. Nor will we allow it to stop the work of this Summit. We will continue our deliberations in the interests of a better world. Here at this Summit, the world’s leaders are striving to combat world poverty and save and improve human life. The perpetrators of today’s attacks are intent on destroying human life.

The terrorists will not succeed.

Today’s bombings will not weaken in any way our resolve to uphold the most deeply held principles of our societies and to defeat those who would impose their fanaticism and extremism on all of us. We shall prevail. They shall not.

July 7, 2005 @ 11:25 am | Comment

Here’s your typical response over at little green cesspools:

Calling them animals is a diservice to animals. I love my dog.
Let’s see how many Muslims today condemn this action instead of asking for more “understanding”
I hope sane people understand now that they must be eradicated.

A vicious circle of hatred and exterminationist mentalities. Not a winning formula for either side.

July 7, 2005 @ 11:27 am | Comment

anyway, can you summarize some of what the people on that link are writing?

July 7, 2005 @ 11:27 am | Comment

sorry, that was a question for bellevue!

July 7, 2005 @ 11:28 am | Comment

Best post I’ve seen today:

The True Face of Terrorism

By Ivo Daalder

For all the talk of Iraq being the central front in the war of terrorism, we learned again this morning that the real central front is everywhere. Terrorists can and will strike at a time and place of their choosing. That is the essential nature of this threat that the Bush administration has ignored at its — and our — peril.

From the very first moment following the 9/11 attacks, it was clear that the Bush administration operated on a flawed understanding of the terrorist threat we now faced. To it, a threat of this magnitude could come about only if states provided the essential support, which is why the administration focused less on combating the terrorists than on going after state sponsors — first Afghanistan, then Iraq. Had Iraq not become a mess, Syria and Iran would have followed.

That is what Bush meant by the global war on terror: “We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them,” Bush declared on 9/11/01. Two days later, Paul Wolfowitz argued that the war would focus on “ending states who sponsor terrorism.” And as Wolfowitz deputy, Doug Feith, later told the New Yorker, “the principal strategic thoughts underlying our strategy in the war on terrorism is the importance of the connection between terrorist organizations and their state sponsors.”

The terrorists who bombed the London transportation system, likely killing dozens and wounding many hundreds — like the terrorists who struck Bali, Madrid, New York, and elsewhere — have demonstrated the fallacy of this way of thinking. Today’s terrorists are independent operators, beyond the control of any state. They roam relatively freely around an interconnected world — striking when they are ready and we least expect it.

The best way to deal with that threat is not by invading countries, which often makes matters worse. Rather, it requires greater international cooperation among the states capable and willing to deal with the threat. That should now be the principal focus of our counter-terrorism strategy. If there is one glimmer of hope coming from today’s horrific news, it is that the bombers may now galvanize the G8 countries to intensify their cooperative efforts in defeating the evil that today once again showed its true — and ugly — face.

July 7, 2005 @ 11:29 am | Comment

This sould be a classic case of China’s subtle handling of publicity to outside world and its own people. Technically it’s nothing new: late Chairman Arafat has been a master of saying something in English and others in Arabic. I just hope media of the West can at least pick up the signal from Beijing.

July 7, 2005 @ 11:29 am | Comment

what exactly are you saying bellevue? I mean, surely China wasn’t going to say, “hold on a moment Mr Blair, I think we’ll abstain from this statement”?

July 7, 2005 @ 11:33 am | Comment


If I can summarize the mentality expressed in those Chinese comments, beside joy, it will be embodied in these 2 posts:

“Attacking innocent people may be wrong. But are your sure there are any INNOCENT Brits?”

“They are the willing running dogs of the Yankees, so they got their due.”

July 7, 2005 @ 11:38 am | Comment

No, KLS, I do not expect Hu Jiatao to abstain from G8 et al. statement. Actually he would be happy to sign it.

But if he had been 1% sincere about it, China’s official media would have reported it. They don’t.

It’s not usual for China’s media to keep silent on their leader’s offcial statement. It’s calculated.

July 7, 2005 @ 11:42 am | Comment

isn’t laowai in london too? and bing?

July 7, 2005 @ 11:43 am | Comment

Laowai commented above…not sure where Bing is.

July 7, 2005 @ 11:45 am | Comment

What are you talking about? I read the first four comments and they all condemmed the events in London.

July 7, 2005 @ 11:46 am | Comment


It’s listed antichronically. Read earlier posts, when damage control wasn’t in place. So far there are over 5,000 there.

July 7, 2005 @ 11:50 am | Comment

Ok, I’ve just had a quick read of bellevue’s link and can do a quick summary for KLS.

The two statements that bellevue posted above are genuine (The Brits go their fair dues) however….

Most commentors take the view that the attacks are understandable bearing in mind the foreign polices and War on Terror policies on the US/UK. However, most of the commenters add that it’s still not right that the ordinary British people should be attacked and killed because of this.

One commenter jokingly said that he suspected that a rising militaristic Japan carried out the attack because they knew that AL Queda would receive the blame!

Another commenter said that Britan lost face because of the attack but it’s exactly the same as the atrocities taking place in Iraq.

A couple of people said that the US/UK should stop always bloody talking on behalf of the rest of the world!

Someone said that the attack is mainly because the US/UK haven’t changed and still kill and steal like they did before in history.

Someone said that Blair will be condemned to the 17th level of Hell (there are 18 levels of Hell in Chinese mythology which get worse the nearer you get to 18) and he can’t go the worst one as Bush takes up the 18th level!

Another said that the US/UK are rich because the world’s consumers like the Chinese buy US/UK goods and that if they all stopped buying then the US/UK would have to eat shit.

A few people said that attacks on ordinary people are inexcusable but this is the only way the people on the wrong end of US/UK bullying can get back at these powerful countries.

Someone said the US/UK are big bullies and the Middle East countries are ‘the little guy’ who can only carry out attacks like this because they are the little guy.

A lot of people said it’s a pity that US/UK government policy makes the Britsh people suffer so much like today’s attack.

Phew, that’s the general idea anyway. Hope it helps KLS. Please don’t tell me now that you weren’t interested in the slightest! Haha.

July 7, 2005 @ 12:18 pm | Comment

As I say I didn’t go through all 5,000, just a random 20-30.

July 7, 2005 @ 12:20 pm | Comment

bellevue, why can’t you put that long link on a tiny url at!? It makes reading this thread a nightmare.

Richard can you fix it?

Here’s the tiny url:

July 7, 2005 @ 12:23 pm | Comment

You are right there are some quite nasty comments.
Reminds me of 9/11. I was in Shanghai at that time and heard comments from. “Great” to “sorry for the people, but those Americans did so many bad things in the past, it had to happen and perahps it has some good outcome”.

July 7, 2005 @ 12:25 pm | Comment

Shulan, don’t confuse bellvue with bingfeng — they are sworn enemies!!

Martyn, great job on the translations – thanks.

I fixed the long link.

July 7, 2005 @ 12:34 pm | Comment

Sorry both of you Bingfeng and Bellevue. Thanks Richard. The Shulan is sometimes even to lasy to think when he writes.

July 7, 2005 @ 12:38 pm | Comment

Es macht nichts, Shulan. Bist du jetzt im Deutschland?

July 7, 2005 @ 12:44 pm | Comment

thanks a lot martyn, I certainly was interested.
I don’t agree with a lot of the comments but I can’t say they’re particularly nasty considering where they’re coming from. nice to be a running dog again, anyway.

July 7, 2005 @ 12:45 pm | Comment

hey Richard kannst du Deutsch? Ja ich bin in Berlin.

July 7, 2005 @ 12:48 pm | Comment

Passions running high on my end. I’ll refrain from commenting except to say everyone on my end seems to be fine and that the unsympathetic chinese over on that chat-room can go on to throw the first stone if they really want to. Righteousness has very little use except to breed hubris.

July 7, 2005 @ 12:51 pm | Comment

it is a bit daft if many chinese get uppity about this, I mean it’s not like they’re palestinians or anything.

July 7, 2005 @ 12:53 pm | Comment

Btw, KLS, bearing in mind what you do to earn an honest crust, I’d really appreciate it if you could do me one favour.

I posted my virgin blog post on The Horse’s Mouth the other day as a guest blogger called ‘Hi China, Bye China?’ and I would really appreciate it if you could leave a comment/tell me what you think.

Hey, I’ve 17 comments so far, some of them really good as well. I might have more in fact as I haven’t checked in the last 3 mins 17 secs! Haha.

Horse’s Mouth:

July 7, 2005 @ 12:54 pm | Comment

Aber natuerllich kann ich Deutsch sprechen. Ich bin ernstlicher Wagnerianer. Berlin ist meine lieblings stadt. Ich habe in Charlottenberg gewohnt ein Sommer (vor 20 Jahren)! Wenn ich gute Arbeit im Deutschland finden koennte, wuerde ich sofort zurueckkehren.

(I haven’t spoken German in 20 years. Trotzdem kannst du mein schlimmes “Deutsch” doch verstehen?)

July 7, 2005 @ 12:55 pm | Comment

“Righteousness has very little use except to breed hubris.”

Superb quote Laowai. I’m not being funny but did you just make that up?

Glad to know you’re safe and sound anyway. I think there’s only Bing left in England that we know and that we haven’t heard from yet.

July 7, 2005 @ 12:57 pm | Comment

I read it, Martyn. in fact, I noticed quite a few people referring and linking to it — most of them are called Martyn too!!
bit reticent about commenting much elsewhere, with one exception the Peking Duck is the only place I’ve ever spouted (yes indeed Richard, what did you do to deserve that…).
but Martyn I shall, and soon.
for now, I’ll just say that I noticed somewhere else that you picked up on the quote you lead with from somewhere else, another blog I think. was glad to see you not just picked it up but ran with it.

July 7, 2005 @ 1:06 pm | Comment

Just me baby. But you know, it comes from Western Consciousness. Oedepus, Jesus, whathaveyou.

July 7, 2005 @ 1:11 pm | Comment

Cool. Ja Berlin ist ne tolle Stadt, kann mir wenig bessere vorstellen. Dafรผr, dass du 20 Jahre kein Deutsch gesprochen hast ist es aber noch ziemlich gut.
Mit den Jobs sieht es hier gerade nicht so gut aus. Werd mich wohl nach meinem Abschluss auf den Weg nach China machen.

July 7, 2005 @ 1:13 pm | Comment

Vielleicht treffen wir uns in China.

July 7, 2005 @ 1:16 pm | Comment

Ok, thanks. I thought I hadn’t noticed you about these last few days, must be mistaken. Why reticent about posting on other blogs? Isn’t one much the same as another?

Yes, I ran with the quote from The Three T’s but Richard W’s taken it off now I think. Just building up to the big extravaganza of my India versus China piece. Oooo the excitment and all that.

July 7, 2005 @ 1:16 pm | Comment

Vieleicht sieht man sich in China. Hast du schon konkrete Plรคne?

July 7, 2005 @ 1:26 pm | Comment

Wahrscheinlich fahre ich nach Asien in zwei oder drei Wochen neue Arbeit zu versuchen. Zuerst werde ich nach Taipei fahren. Mir wurde gesagt, dieser its der beste Platz fuer mich. Danach fahre ich nach Shenzhen, Shanghai und Beijing anderen Gelegenheit zu untersuchen. Ich habe ein bisschen Angst, aber auch eine “feeling of adventure.” Verstaendlich ma?

July 7, 2005 @ 1:35 pm | Comment

Kann ich mir vorstellen. Ich hab auch viel Gutes รผber Taipei gehรถrt. Wรผnsch dir viel Glรผck. Mich wirds waherscheinlich im Oktober mal wieder nach China verschlagen. Ein paar Freunde besuchen.

July 7, 2005 @ 2:02 pm | Comment

ist auch von zwansig jahre dass ich Deutsch gesprochen habe…aber ick denke, Richard, ich habe sehr viel mehr als Du vergessen….vieleicht weil ich jetz Chinesich (??!?) studieren bin!

July 7, 2005 @ 2:48 pm | Comment

“ick denke.” Illustrating my point nicely! Yikes…

July 7, 2005 @ 2:49 pm | Comment

Aber, gnaedige Fraulein Lisa, ich habe ein ganzes Jahr im Deutschland gewohnt als ich Student war. Deshalb habe ich mehrere Deutsche als du gesprochen. And you aren’t doing badly at all! If I could speak Chinese as well as you speak German I’d be happy.

July 7, 2005 @ 2:53 pm | Comment

And on a totally different subject, have you heard that the tertra cotta warriors are starting to disintegrate? That would be a real tragedy. I’m glad i got to see them my last week living in China.

July 7, 2005 @ 2:59 pm | Comment

Hey – since we’re talking german – can someone give me some tips on berlin? I’m going there next week for 2 days, and would like to see the sights and enjoy the atmosphere.

July 7, 2005 @ 3:01 pm | Comment

also does anyone know why a few hundred people visited my blog in an hour? that traffic is weird for my blog.

July 7, 2005 @ 3:01 pm | Comment

Shulan is your man for that. I haven’t been back to Berlin since 1994.

July 7, 2005 @ 3:02 pm | Comment

You don’t have a site meter that shows where they are coming from?

July 7, 2005 @ 3:04 pm | Comment

I do but statcounter tracks hits differently, and doesn’t pick them up. anyway, not a big deal.

I’ve got a (small) rant against the chinese commentors mentioned in the url above on my site, in chinese. maybe a few will read it. probably not.

July 7, 2005 @ 3:16 pm | Comment

This seems to be a germanophile blog.
Dein Deutsch ist auch nicht schlecht, Other Lisa.
Laowai, what do you want to know about berlin? I know all the good pubs and clubs in town, well, almost all.

July 7, 2005 @ 3:21 pm | Comment

RIchard, I spent three months in Switzerland, summer of 79, before heading on to China. By the end of that I could speak German pretty well (not fluently but conversational), though I also apparently acquired a Swiss accent which has stuck with me to this day (you know what the Swiss say about their own Swiss German – “es hort wie ein halskrankheit aus”). I could still speak it all right until recently, but trying to type that out just now took wayyyy too much of my brainpower! I’ve really forgotten just about everything.

Where were you in Germany?

July 7, 2005 @ 3:27 pm | Comment

A long, long time ago; let’s discuss via email….

July 7, 2005 @ 3:29 pm | Comment

This bloated thread is hereby defunct. Please migrate northwards.

July 7, 2005 @ 7:45 pm | Comment

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