“Crooked teeth” – Chinese bloggers criticise the foreign media

Raj

Some interesting comments over the “crooked teeth” incident are available from or through ESWN. Roland himself seems to somewhat annoyed at the foreign media for some of their comments, claiming that they invented the term “crooked teeth” themselves.

But today, the world knows Yang as having “chubby/fat face” and “crooked/uneven/buck teeth” and Lin as having no singing talents. Well, who needs Politburo members when we have western media showering such ‘tender loving care’ on Chinese children?

I think that Roland is being somewhat petulant, given that most people think that Yang was cute enough to be at the opening ceremony and there is no noticeable ill-will towards Lin. Furthermore, he rather misses the point (or chooses to ignore it) over why this has been reported so widely. It isn’t so much because of what may have been said about her, more the fact that Yang was made to dub for a “more” photogenic girl. Whether the director said that she was less attractive or the other girl was more attractive, it is clear that a decision was taking over presentation. And presentation is a key party of the “story” of Beijing 2008. It’s why parts of the city have been demolished to “tidy” it up and domestic and foreign protesters have been blocked from holding demonstrations anywhere, let alone in a place where Chinese people can easily see them.

The “Fool’s Mountain” blog writes:

Lin Miaoke had no idea that the sound was being substituted and went onto the stage to perform in front an audience of billions flawlessly. Her composure under the pressure was something most grown-up could only dream of. She is the real deal!

First of all, if I was supposed to be singing something at an event and I then heard another guy’s voice come on the loud-speakers, I would either stop or look worried, ask the technicians what was happening, etc. Given that Lin didn’t seem to stop or falter it is quite possible that she had been told what would happen. But even if she was unaware or soldiered on, again most people are not angry at her for what happened. The general reaction was more one of surprise, and any ill-will was directed towards the organisers.

A comment from “Si Dai”, linked by Roland, was quite curious:

As for “fake singing” and “lip-synching,” they are better known as “dubbing” and “body doubles” in the terminology of movies…. Without the dubbing, those movie stars with pretty faces but are tone-deaf would have been embarrassed out of their careers.

Dubbing in movies has often been controversial, no less than Audrey Hepburn in My Fair Lady, where fans who listened to recordings of her singing said it was actually quite good and that it was completely unnecessary to have Julie Andrews Marni Nixon dub her. But more importantly, this was not a movie and there was no need for Lin to be on the stage – no one knew who she was, so it wouldn’t have made a difference whether it was her or Peng in front of the cameras. The film comparisons are irrelevant because no one is objecting to dubbing in principle – it’s that it was used in this case.

As an example, for the 2012 Olympics, I doubt that any of the London organisers would have considered having one child sing and then another to act it out. The attitude would have been, “wow, a young singer – let’s listen to them and see if that’s what we need”. They would not have said “well, you’re a good singer, but so-and-so is more attractive than you so we’ll have them instead”. Maybe they would have been given some smart clothes, a nice haircut, or whatever.

A common complain from Chinese people, whether living in the PRC or outside of it, is that foreigners “do not understand China or Chinese people”. Yet with the sorts of reactions I have read on ESWN and through its links, I do not believe that these Chinese bloggers understand foreigners or their reactions here, because if they did they would understand why many people were so surprised by this. Or, in some cases, they may well be trying to deflect their strong embarrassment over what has happened by blaming foreigners instead.

The Discussion: 58 Comments

“Yet with the sorts of reactions I have read on ESWN and through its links, I do not believe that these Chinese bloggers understand foreigners or their reactions here, because if they did they would understand why many people were so surprised by this. Or, in some cases, they may well be trying to deflect their strong embarrassment over what has happened by blaming foreigners instead.”

Raj, it is these guys JOB to not understand, they don’t give a rat’s ass about understanding foreigners, that would defeat the entire purpose of their blogging. Giving an explanation of the foreign position would be a capitulation.

The problem is different acceptances of artifice. In the West, we tend to despise people who present a “false image”, and when that is found out we usually point it out as a reason to mistrust them. This of course make the CCP one of the most tempting targets of criticism. Some Chinese seem to accept it, as long as it is in their interest, so if the girl is cute and makes China look good, who cares? (That being said, it should be noted that some Chinese netizens were not necessarily supportive of this move!)

PS You were right about the protest zones! I shouldn’t have given them the benefit of the doubt…I must have been out of my mind that day!:)

August 15, 2008 @ 9:10 pm | Comment

ESWN is an interesting collection of links and I used to appreciate Roland Soong’s comments, but this year I don’t recognize him anymore and he has occasionally suspended his better judgment. I will never look at his blog the same say since he published the full contact information of a suspected Tibetan torch-snatcher.

August 15, 2008 @ 10:11 pm | Comment

Julie Andrews sang the role of Liza Doolittle in the stage version of My Fair Lady in London. She did not sing in the movie. The voice in the movie was Marni Nixon.

August 15, 2008 @ 11:23 pm | Comment

Forget the crooked teeth nonsense and the fireworks footage. The real PR “Oops!” stemming from the opening ceremonies was having all those ‘ethnic minority’ children not be, well, from any of the represented ethnic minorities at all. Given the current tense environment regarding some of these groups, this one can be safely filed in the “What the hell were they thinking!?!” department. Did security paranoia hit such levels that a bunch of CHILDREN for said groups weren’t deemed appropriate to appear?

And to all those who would cry “China bashing!” fool, the same outcry would happen anywhere- I can only imagine the furor that would be unleashed if say, in Vancouver 2010, non-Native people played the parts of Native dancers in the opening ceremony.

A real boneheaded move, maybe the officials should have spent a little less time worrying about the presentability of a little girl and a tiny bit more about this one.

August 15, 2008 @ 11:58 pm | Comment

I’ve always thought of ESWN and Fool’s Mountain as some sort of middle-of-the-road blogs, not given to over-the-top nursing of wounded Chinese sentiments that you get plenty of elsewhere. But I too feel these posts there were more than a little petulant. They either missed the whole point – which was that the organisers were primarily to blame for the bad press (and the profound embarrassment of the Chinese people) for overlooking the merits of Yang Peiyi, who was adjudged the best singer, and choosing Lin for her looks – or they deliberately went on the offensive against the foreign media to deflect attention away from the root cause of the embarrassment. The organisers may not have used the words “chubby face/uneven teeth” but in their own choice of words-with-Chinese-characteristics, that was what they were implying, and no amount of cybersleuthing to trace the origins of the “chubby face/uneven teeth” meme can take that away. Unless of course you choose not to be convinced.

The lip-synch-gate wasn’t the end of it, of course. On Friday, BOCOG officials admitted that the 55 “ethnic minority” children who came carrying the Chiense flag in the opening ceremony were, in fact, all Han children, and were there merely to symbolically represente that the 56 ethnic communities in China “live happily together”. In some ways, I find that even more jarring than the lip-synch-gate. I mean: were the organisers completely clueless about the weight of “cultural symbols”? And what is one to make of the fact that on this episode, Chinese people in general don’t sound overly outraged?

I’m wondering what it will take for them to understand why all this “smoke and mirrors” stuff is particularly grating for a foreign audience – and even those of us who live in China and understand the “Chinese way”.

August 16, 2008 @ 12:06 am | Comment

Ditto Hemulen- perhaps running a very good blog has gone to Roland’s head. Even by the standards of blogs, he can (sometimes) be extremely judgmental and dismissive. Calling the Tibet riots “ethnic cleansing” right off the bat was pretty extreme- would anyone in the US, or elsewhere, call a race riot ethnic cleansing?

August 16, 2008 @ 12:07 am | Comment

Re dubbing, thanks – corrected.

PB, do you think that’s indicative of something else – that the Chinese authorities see ethnic minorities in terms of tourism and marketing, rather than actual people – a concept or idea? It is, in some respects, a bigger scandal.

Roland does a good job in terms of his translation efforts, but I think he is either becoming more prejudiced or simply less able to hide attitudes that he always had.

August 16, 2008 @ 12:26 am | Comment

Julie Andrews and Milli Vanilli, never represented a country’s culture or art at an Olympic opening ceremony.

Hey, wait until someone catches on that the piano the Elvis guy was playing obviously had no mic’s around or in it, the lid was closed and as he taps his foot on the stage, the whole instrument rocks. Ever seen a concert grand sway when someone walks near it? no, neither have i…

August 16, 2008 @ 12:51 am | Comment

Its probably a lightweight, hollow replica that’s easier to shift around.

August 16, 2008 @ 12:52 am | Comment

Raj,

I think it is mostly indicative of different notions of sensitivity/insensitivity across various cultures. I wouldn’t be surprised if this story causes less than a blip with the Chinese- not necessarily because people hate ethnic minorities or anything, but just because the ‘minority’ concept has become such a tired part of the gov’t propaganda game that I doubt people even take any of it seriously anymore. Doesn’t matter who is wearing the costumes at that point, because of course it’s just part of the gov’t fantasy world where everyone is happy and in service of the nation. From this weary perspective, it makes complete sense that all the ‘ethnic’ kids are Han. Propaganda has no need for authenticity.

The problem is more from the perspective of some foreign spectactors. Many Canadians, for example, would find this sort of deception extremely insensitive given our turbulent history regarding Native populations. For historical reasons (read guilt over past treatment), portrayals of native populations and culture are filtered through a huge degree of sensitivity (and rightfully so, in my opinion). No way this sort of objectification would happen anymore without an insane outcry.

Of course, in Chinese officialdom these concerns are non-existent for the most part. But they’d have to expect, at least, that this could cause a fuss in others’ eyes- particularly given what has been going on in Tibet and Xinjiang (Western media darling stories). You know, as much as “you don’t understand China” gets tossed around these parts, I think “you don’t understand France, Germany, US, Canada, South Africa, India, Belarus, Russia, wherever” could make an equal number of appearances.

August 16, 2008 @ 12:53 am | Comment

“I like the attack on the worldwide media for not correcting their stories because of two blog posts. How could it be, that not all the worldโ€™s reporters read these two blogs?? ” — Richard

Well, Richard, you see what is the response after people read those two blog posts? “Pentulant” “prejudiced” That is the judgement of your guest writers.

Now back to the original question why returning students are against western media. If your commentators here are anythiing close to the mainstream of western media, there is no wonder that chinese feel alienated because even Roland is not accepted by their standard.

Richard,seriously, you guest writer is sub-par. He is pentulant and prejudiced, NOT Roland or Fool’s mountain.

August 16, 2008 @ 12:57 am | Comment

Steve,

Just an honest clarification here: what is meant by “western media”?

CNN? BBC? The Guardian? The Globe and Mail? National Post? CBC? ABC? NBC? CBS? Le Monde? TF1? Paris Match? Der Spiegel? The Times (anywhere)? The Post (anywhere)? Fox? HBO? ESPN? TSN? Alternet.org? The Nation? The Economist? Financial Times? Mother Jones? Wall Street Journal? National Review? The hundreds of others in English alone across many countries that I have no time to mention? I can’t even get started on the Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Greek, etc. ones.

I think we should just get it over with and, for clarity’s sake, declare the definition of “western media” to be CNN and BBC. Oh, and maybe one French network because the French piss people off.

It makes everything so much simpler!

August 16, 2008 @ 1:29 am | Comment

PS: I happen to be a fan of Fool’s Mountain, I’ll admit

August 16, 2008 @ 1:50 am | Comment

I watched the opening ceremony with a cadre of PRC citizens and some US citizens, 50-50 mix. It was noticed that the young earthquake victim walking with yao was carrying a PRC flag that was upside down. No sure what the protocol is in the PRC but flying a US flag upside down is consider a distress signal.

I’m not anal so was not the one who noticed this, another US citizen I was watching has the homor of making that discovery. I don’t think it was a big deal, but in light of the Lin Miaoke “scandal” seems this should be pointed out and verified by others.

I do have to agree that there is a little bit of nit picking being made by western media over these issues, but Lin Miaoke earned her moment in the spotlight. The CCP official who made the decision at the last minute deserves everyone’s scorn as the cold heartless bastard that he is.

It must have been a blow to a young Lin Miaoke to be yanked at the last minute for such an arbitrary reason.

August 16, 2008 @ 2:05 am | Comment

PB, people like steve find it easier to make generalisations about foreigners/foreign institutions than be specific. Otherwise they might have to admit that there are some “good” news groups/agencies in Europe, North America et al.

August 16, 2008 @ 2:06 am | Comment

We all have biases to one extent or another. ESWN seems pretty fair to me, most of the time. Roland does a lot of good translations, and if he wants to throw his opinion in there a few times as well, that’s his prerogative. As for Fool’s Mountain, it’s no secret that many of them are Chinese nationals and tend to have a pro-China slant (I don’t know if the name “Blogging for China” was intentional or not). I feel that the inside views and alternative stories they present are well worth any bias that exists.

Shutting our ears off to sources we don’t like is the absolute worst thing we can do. Any Westerner interested in China has a duty to listen to the Chinese point of view and give it a fair shake. Similarly, the Chinese have a duty to give stories from the BBC, AP, and even CNN a fair listen as well. In both cases, if the stories are wrong, our arguments are strengthened. If they’re right, we learn something new. No one should be afraid of dissenting opinions.

…And that’s what it all comes down to. There seems to be an increasing tendency among some of the online Western posters to want to join the “in-crowd”, the new “cool kids” who are supposedly more open-minded and fair, not like those lame old “China bashers”. These Westerners seem to almost see themselves as Chinese, and suspend their reasoning ability in order to protect “their” China. (I am definitely NOT accusing Roland or anyone specific of this type of mentality, it just seems to be a recent, subtle trend). It’s like a possessiveness – we were free to criticize China when it was just us over here, but now that the world has come, we’ve changed: “They don’t really understand China like we do. We’re much more acculturated and sensitive than these people who just want to bash China.” I don’t agree with these Westerners – if there’s one thing China needs less of, it’s people who avoid bad news to save face – but they have a right to their opinion, and we shouldn’t tune them out. ESWN, Fool’s Mountain, The Peking Duck, etc. – each of these provide different points of view and unique perspectives, and that is the greatest thing anyone interested in China could ask for.

August 16, 2008 @ 2:16 am | Comment

B. Smith,

You allude to a fascinating phenomenon which I’ve noticed in my own life.

For example, I’m a born-and-bred Quebecker who does not support independence or the incessant onslaught of nationalism that is such a hobby (and, unfortunately, gov’t obsession) in this province. I have no problem going to town about the stupidity of the situation when I’m at home in Montreal.

Send me to school in Ontario for a few years, and next thing I know I’m defending Quebec nationalism to other Canadians who “just don’t get it”.

The battle in all cases, be it China or Quebec, is not over whether problems exist or not, but rather over who has the right to comment on them. ๐Ÿ™‚

August 16, 2008 @ 2:36 am | Comment

“Just an honest clarification here: what is meant by โ€œwestern mediaโ€?

CNN? BBC? The Guardian? The Globe and Mail? National Post? CBC? ABC? NBC? CBS? Le Monde? TF1? Paris Match? Der Spiegel?”

Well, are there any difference in their reporting? NONE! They have the same tone and the same angle. That is why I lumped them into western media. If you can enlighten me, show me at least one of them that look at this subject differently, say, from the angle of ESWN or fool’s mountain?

August 16, 2008 @ 2:52 am | Comment

steve,

http://tinyurl.com/5jwtzf (from a Wall Stree Journal blog, even)

http://tinyurl.com/5eu4xy

http://tinyurl.com/5versd

And while they might not be from ESWN or fool’s mountain perspective, that’s because they are not, uhmm, ESWN or fool’s mountain. But isn’t that the whole point?

August 16, 2008 @ 3:14 am | Comment

I am a Chinese and I admit this incident is just disgusting. I don’t care about anything about western media. I just hope the two girls won’t get hurt and have a normal, happy life after this.

August 16, 2008 @ 3:21 am | Comment

MX,

I think they should have both girls sign together at the closing ceremonies, that would be really classy.

August 16, 2008 @ 3:24 am | Comment

make that “sing”.

August 16, 2008 @ 3:24 am | Comment

“I think they should have both girls sign together at the closing ceremonies, that would be really classy.”

In early days of CCP, makeup is banned because it does not show the real face of working people and is bourgeoisie. This argument about “reality thing” is just as silly as that.

August 16, 2008 @ 4:35 am | Comment

As the 1st Chinese in this thread let me clarify 3 things from our side.

1. Majority of chinese think it was a stupid decision, but not too big a deal, not something worth pouring out hearts and crying about.

2. The 1st&foremost thing bloggers in Foolsmountain criticized the foreign media over is: They made up things. ie, the terms “crooked face” and “chubby face” were not from the interviewee, Mr.Chen never said the girl was bad looking. These negative words were manufactured by foreign reporters, and likely will haunt the poor girl more than anything else.

3. Han kids posted as minorities. Give me a break. In U.S there’s hundreds of parades every year use puerto ricans dressing up like Indians, because the real native Americans have gone borderline extinct, and nobody cares.

-peace

August 16, 2008 @ 4:36 am | Comment

These negative words were manufactured by foreign reporters, and likely will haunt the poor girl more than anything else.

Why? She can’t read/speak English, and I doubt anyone will have been telling her “nyah-nyah-nyah, the foreign media say you’re ugly!”

Han kids posted as minorities. Give me a break. In U.S thereโ€™s hundreds of parades every year use puerto ricans dressing up like Indians, because the real native Americans have gone borderline extinct, and nobody cares

There’s a big difference between a city parade and an Olympic opening ceremony. Besides, you seem to know all about the former – did anyone know about the latter until someone had broken the story?

August 16, 2008 @ 4:53 am | Comment

“Majority of chinese think it was a stupid decision, but not too big a deal, not something worth pouring out hearts and crying about.”

This is the worst part of it. Are we Chinese just so used to fakes that asking for truthfulness is now considered abnormal?

August 16, 2008 @ 6:22 am | Comment

Raj,

I wasn’t particularly inclined to respond to your post. But your latest comment, copied below, bothers me.

These negative words were manufactured by foreign reporters, and likely will haunt the poor girl more than anything else.

Why? She canโ€™t read/speak English, and I doubt anyone will have been telling her ‘nyah-nyah-nyah, the foreign media say youโ€™re ugly!'”

It sounds rather indifferent towards these two girls, doesn’t it? I hope this is not a reflection of your real attitude.

By the way, it was the VOA report that prompted me to write the second blog entry, which you linked to (but not the first one). This VOA report is written in Chinese and targeted to people inside China. Are you going to say “but she is only a first grader and can’t read it anyway”?

Anyway, since I am already writing a comment here, I may as well repeat some clarifications regarding my blog posts:

1) My concern has always been about what it would mean for these two girls

2) Using this case to criticize China doesn’t bother me. I was in fact among the first to report this revelation to the English reading audience. I faulted whoever behind this arrangement from the beginning.

3) My ire is now mostly directed towards those “journalists” that produced completely irresponsible writings concerning those two girls while making (or scoring) whatever points they intended. They either did or didn’t bother to check the core source material, the video or transcript of the Chen interview. If one didn’t, then he/she is unprofessional, to put it mildly. If one did, then he/she is downright malicious in calling Lin Miaoke a fake and Yang Peiyi “ugly”.

August 16, 2008 @ 6:26 am | Comment

A few quick points:

1) I do like Roland’s site, while I don’t always agree with how he runs it, I think he does a generally good job. It’s not his responsibility to be all things to all people and I’m sure that he puts a great deal of time and energy into the project and for that I have to give him props. I don’t recall the name/address thing, if that’s true, it’s most unfortunate.

2) I started off as not a big fan of Blogging for China, but then I’m not a huge fan of ‘blogging FOR anything.’ Having given it a chance though, I will say that while some of authors (bxb-whatever) veer off into moonbat territory, there are some (like DJ) who take a more balanced and nuanced look at the issues, coming at them from the point of trying to understand rather than always feeling some pathological need to make a ‘point.’

3) There’s a rumor floating around here in Beijing that Yang Peiyi might be invited to sing at the closing ceremonies. Anyone here anything else about this?

August 16, 2008 @ 6:51 am | Comment

Shooting the messenger is an old and much practiced Chinese characteristic and cultural trait. The politburo is, of cause, flawless and blameless. Those reporting their mistakes are the one to blame for the reported mistakes.

August 16, 2008 @ 7:27 am | Comment

Roland took something out of context and ignored the real issue in an effort to defend the CCP??? Stop the presses!!

As usual, he completely ignores the real issue (the girl who actually sang the song was replaced because of her appearance) and instead focuses on the fact that the media speculated on what exactly made her “inappropriate” for the performance (her teeth? her fat face? etc.)

But, really, that is such an important distinction: the organizers of the event only rejected her because of her appearance — they didn’t actually say that she has crooked teeth! Wow, we can all breathe easier knowing that that has been cleared up.

Obviously, this proves the anti-Chinese bias of everyone on the planet except Roland…yet again.

August 16, 2008 @ 8:19 am | Comment

@Raj,

“Why? She canโ€™t read/speak English, and I doubt anyone will have been telling her โ€œnyah-nyah-nyah, the foreign media say youโ€™re ugly!โ€

— Dude you dont sound like a very compassionate person you made out to do. Besides how the hell do you know she can’t read English? or all the mean teen girls in her class can’t either? You know what it’s like, right?

Thereโ€™s a big difference between a city parade and an Olympic opening ceremony. Besides, you seem to know all about the former – did anyone know about the latter until someone had broken the story?

— I dont see the difference here, are you saying something happening at the national level is bad but at the county level is ok? what kind of a logic is that? And please, of course I knew they were Han kids, the only reason you didnt know, is because you aint chinese.

@Yuer,

This is the worst part of it. Are we Chinese just so used to fakes that asking for truthfulness is now considered abnormal?

— No it only means at Chinese has other higher priorities. People of different countries have different priorities of their values & lives, it’s determined by how much their societies have progressed respectively. At this point, Chinese are more result-driven than western people, that wont change until every Chinese family can afford to drive big SUV, and go hunting with full belly.

August 16, 2008 @ 8:24 am | Comment

“At this point, Chinese are more result-driven than western people, that wont change until every Chinese family can afford to drive big SUV, and go hunting with full belly.”

Though Confucius would disagree with you, but then again contemporary Chinese society and politics have much that Confucius and Mencius would find appalling.

August 16, 2008 @ 8:51 am | Comment

“I think that Roland is being somewhat petulant”

Indeed. I’m not the fan of ESWN that I used to be, despite links to some interesting news items. The reason is the commentary, which betrays more than a hint of nationalistic anti-western feeling. And no right to reply is another dent in his credibility.

August 16, 2008 @ 11:27 am | Comment

@A Chinese

Majority of chinese think it was a stupid decision, but not too big a deal, not something worth pouring out hearts and crying about.

Not too big a deal? You mean officials breaking the PRC’s own laws is not too big a deal?

Look at this:
In July 2005, the Chinese State Council promulgated the Regulations on the Administration of Business Performance. This specifically banned artists from ‘false singing’, as well as entities from organising and venue providers for facilitating such events (Article 29). Any infringement of this law by artists, organisers and venue providers alike would attract a heavy penalty (Article 47).
From Straits Times writer Ching Cheong

In order to stage a Potemkin Olympics, the country’s officials are prepared to go to the extent of breaking the country’s very own laws and you are not even disturbed. Wow.

August 16, 2008 @ 11:36 am | Comment

@A Chinese
At this point, Chinese are more result-driven than western people, that wont change until every Chinese family can afford to drive big SUV, and go hunting with full belly.

LOL. What a fallacy. Don’t you realize that you are opening up a flood-gate argument here? If that’s the case, poor people can rob and steal with impunity until they can afford to drive big SUVs and go hunting with full belly too.

In the developed world, not every family can afford driving SUVs and go hunting with full belly. In fact they depend on handouts, food stamps, stay in a decaying inner city apartment but does it give them a license to be unethical and immoral?

It is high time for you to get out of that ivory tower of yours.

August 16, 2008 @ 11:46 am | Comment

Keith Quinn from TVNZ is now in China covering Olympic, here is what he said about it

“Concerning this story you should have seen all hell break loose in Olympic city. News reporters were suddenly rushing around, distracted from covering their regular sports events to ‘uncover’ this apparent ‘shame’ that China had foist upon the world.

The hint was; how dare the Chinese try to trick the world.

Well, in case anyone missed it let me state here that over-dubbing and using of substitute voices occurs every night on TV in probably every station in the world.
Every flamin’ night I might add.”
http://tvnz.co.nz/content/1901915

August 16, 2008 @ 2:38 pm | Comment

Well, I suppose all the fuss does cover up the more serious story about the underage gymnasts.

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/08/another-olympic-secret-how-old-is-he-kexin/

August 16, 2008 @ 2:53 pm | Comment

@A Chinese

Before you engaged in self-congratulation, you forgot that in those examples such as My Fairlady, the singer who did the dubbing was acknowledged and shared in the credits of the film.

But was Yang Peiyi allowed to openly share the credits with Lin Miaoke? They pretended that Yang didn’t exist!

Rather than acknowledging the dubbing, Zhang Yimou told the press that Miaoke’s sining is one of the best episodes of the ceremony and each time he hears Miaoke in rehearsals, he would burst into tears.

Coming clean with the truth is just too difficult for some.

And you haven’t comment on the fact that the CCP authorities have broken Chinese laws themselves.

August 16, 2008 @ 3:59 pm | Comment

And no right to reply is another dent in his credibility.

stuart, agreed. When he commented less on his translations/links or was more moderate in what he sais, I accepted he had a right not to want to worry about comments – despite the fact that some of what he posted on ESWN could be taken to be biased in certain directions (e.g. downplaying the pro-democracy parties in Hong Kong). But if he’s going to be jumping up and down about things then he should enable commentary.

Of course, it’s up to him – the consequence with his current system is that people like myself are more likely to call him up on what he says through full blog entries, rather than just comments on his blog.

August 16, 2008 @ 6:37 pm | Comment

@ DJ

It sounds rather indifferent towards these two girls, doesnโ€™t it?

Given the ludicrous assertion by “A Chinese”, I think my response is quite proportionate.

This VOA report is written in Chinese and targeted to people inside China.

Again, is she really going to be trawling the internet for what people are saying about this (including a foreign agency such as VOA) and/or are adults around her going to shove it down her throat?

I faulted whoever behind this arrangement from the beginning.

Fine, but you are not the person I was focusing on.

If one did, then he/she is downright malicious in calling Lin Miaoke a fake and Yang Peiyi โ€œuglyโ€

I’ve already made the point about Lin. As for Yang, I doubt it is going to affect her. If she hears about what the foreign media has been saying she should also pick up on the positive comments from ordinary people both inside and outside of China.

@ Jeremiah

Unfortunately, I saw it too – I was quite appalled. There was even a satellite image of the house, plus the address.

@ A Chinese

Dude you dont sound like a very compassionate person you made out to do. Besides how the hell do you know she canโ€™t read English?

Unless you can prove that she can, I will assume that the most LOGICAL answer is that she can’t and that even if she did she probably won’t care to read it because the primary (domestic as well as foreign) fuss is about the substitution, which if she is concerned about anything will be dealing with that.

I dont see the difference here, are you saying something happening at the national level is bad but at the county level is ok?

If it’s as big a deal in terms of global coverage as the Olympic opening ceremony, of course there’s a difference. It’s not to do with right or wrong (trust you to bring black and white into this), but whether it matters as much.

August 16, 2008 @ 6:54 pm | Comment

@sp

“But was Yang Peiyi allowed to openly share the credits with Lin Miaoke? They pretended that Yang didnโ€™t exist! ”

This is a picture of the opening ceremony ticket. if you could read chinese, Peiyi’s name is right there.
http://www.sci.ccny.cuny.edu/~phyzjqk/image/akeolj.jpg

What didnt exist is not Peiyi, is your IQ.

August 16, 2008 @ 9:49 pm | Comment

@B Chinese

A you the evil twin of A Chinese? Hahaha

โ€œBut was Yang Peiyi allowed to openly share the credits with Lin Miaoke? They pretended that Yang didnโ€™t exist! โ€

This is a picture of the opening ceremony ticket. if you could read chinese, Peiyiโ€™s name is right there.

You are doing what we chinese call “Point to a deer and call it a horse”. The main point is: Did the authorities acknowledged openly that it was Yang Peiyi who sang “Ode to the Motherland” and not Lin Miaoke? Did they credit Yang for dubbing Lin?

Answer yes or no, period. Did they acknowledge that Yang sang “Ode to the Motherland”?

What didn’t exist were your honesty and conscience.

I didn’t lack IQ. What i lack is that treachery of yours.

August 16, 2008 @ 10:59 pm | Comment

@sp,

They put Peiyi ‘s name on the credit list of the ticket, the director of the show told the media voluntarily it was PeiYi sang the song…those weren’t enough? It’s a freaking song, what more you want?! Call a conference before the ceremony? HuJinTao came out to announce it?

For the love of God you are so dumb. I scratch my head why I ‘d spend time to explain things to foreigners like you. We’re through.

August 17, 2008 @ 12:30 am | Comment

“Iโ€™ve always thought of ESWN and Foolโ€™s Mountain as some sort of middle-of-the-road blogs”

Similarly, I refer to Michael Savage for middle-of-the-road commentary on US politics! Those damn foreigners!

August 17, 2008 @ 12:44 am | Comment

@Raj,

“Unless you can prove that she can, I will assume that the most LOGICAL answer is that she canโ€™t and that even if she did she probably wonโ€™t care to read it”

—-Are you listening to yourself? you know what I will assume? I will assume you will assume anything to in favor of your points.

“If itโ€™s as big a deal in terms of global coverage as the Olympic opening ceremony, of course thereโ€™s a difference. Itโ€™s not to do with right or wrong (trust you to bring black and white into this), but whether it matters as much.”

—-Are you saying what matters is not the substance of the things, but the coverage? I thought the whole point of all this drama is Westerns accuse China cares too much of the coverage rather than the substance……no?

August 17, 2008 @ 12:51 am | Comment

PS- Anyone who believed in the “protest zones” really needs to lay off whatever drugs might have overtaken their mind at that moment.
Rather than using “the law” as a means to create a more efficient and just social environment, the government here uses “the law” to achieve a false, performative image of legitimate governance, all of the while denying its real content.

August 17, 2008 @ 12:52 am | Comment

Are you listening to yourself?

Yes, I said that I would assume the most logical thing being the case. Perhaps you have a problem with logic, but that’s for you to deal with.

Are you saying what matters is not the substance of the things, but the coverage?

August 17, 2008 @ 1:52 am | Comment

@B Chinese

They put Peiyi โ€™s name on the credit list of the ticket, the director of the show told the media voluntarily it was PeiYi sang the songโ€ฆthose werenโ€™t enough? Itโ€™s a freaking song, what more you want?! Call a conference before the ceremony? HuJinTao came out to announce it?

Still trying to “Point to the deer and call it a horse”. LOL.

The whole world did not know that it was Yang who sang the song until Chen Qigang, the musical director of the opening ceremony, revealed in an interview that Lin was only selected to appear because of her “flawless” appearance and did not sing a note.

Before Cheng Qigang’s interview, tributes to Lin Miaoke have been pouring in, with the China Daily saying how a “songbird” like Lin is on the way to become a major singing star. In other words, no one know the truth before that interview. To be exact, no one know the truth between 8 Aug to 10 Aug.

You are just trying to play chronological games here isn’t it?

B Chinese seems to have thoroughly lost his/her ability to tell the truth.

August 17, 2008 @ 2:00 am | Comment

@B Chinese

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2008-08/12/content_6926550.htm

“Lin Miaoke might be only 9 years old, but she is already well on her way to becoming a star, thanks to her heartwarming performance of Ode to the Motherland at Friday’s opening ceremony for the Beijing Olympics.” — China Daily

Sometimes, truth is hard to swallow when honesty and integrity have been detached from one’s soul.

I am sorry for making you realize the seriousness of your cognitive dissonance and i empathize with your illness. Take care friend.

August 17, 2008 @ 2:19 am | Comment

@Raj,

I thought it was “all about the kids”, I didnt know its about “the Olympics should be the height of honesty, freedom and openness.”

OK, if you say so, what happened to Pavarotti lip syncing in 2006 winter games? people told me that one doesn’t really matter because this time is about 2 kids…

As I m typing this I m laughing as well, you people can never be wrong can you?

btw I changed my alias because I didnt know there is another “A Chinese” posting here as #36.

August 17, 2008 @ 2:53 am | Comment

Speaking of western media, I was wondering if Richard could start a thread about FOX. Here is the youtube link, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lptVAbw5oos,very interesting video to watch.

I kinda feel sorry for FOX (and many other media in US, e.g. CNN). They are so good at manipulating “facts”. What a rookie mistake for them!

August 17, 2008 @ 3:26 am | Comment

I thought it was โ€œall about the kidsโ€

Well I didn’t see Mickey Mouse lighting the flame……

OK, if you say so, what happened to Pavarotti lip syncing in 2006 winter games?

Was he dubbing himself or was it someone else? The former is a bit of a cheat but not too much – the latter a lot worse.

you people can never be wrong can you?

And you’ve shown that you were wrong where, exactly?

August 17, 2008 @ 4:29 am | Comment

“OK, if you say so, what happened to Pavarotti lip syncing in 2006 winter games?
—Was he dubbing himself or was it someone else? The former is a bit of a cheat but not too much – the latter a lot worse.”

Pavarotti was a Professional singer, he’s THE icon of the soprano for over decades, he made his living by singing, he had made hundreds of millions of dollars by singing, and he dub himself in the Olymics(God rest his soul I mean no disrespect to him), an event you just said some hours ago is supposed to be “the height of honesty, freedom and openness.โ€ Now you come back say it’s “a bit of a cheat but not too much”? And two amatuer nameless 9 yr old kids did it, switching voice of not, is “a lot worse”?!

You are a textbook case of typical hyprocratic Americans, you are the reason why your country is hated around the world. We are through.

August 17, 2008 @ 10:53 pm | Comment

and he dub himself in the Olymics

Winter Olympics – I couldn’t give a rat’s arse about it. Neither can most people around the world.

Now you come back say itโ€™s โ€œa bit of a cheat but not too muchโ€?

Ok, fine – it’s a big cheat. So how does that excuse what China did?

You are a textbook case of typical hyprocratic Americans, you are the reason why your country is hated around the world.

I’m not American, you moron. But I guess with your xenophobic, racist profiling you would assume that.

August 18, 2008 @ 12:13 am | Comment

[…] having one child sing and then another to act it out. The attitude would have been, ‘wow, a young singer – letโ€™s listen to them and see if thatโ€™s what we need.’” […]

August 18, 2008 @ 2:47 am | Pingback

B Chinese,

You might want to read up on Italian culture a bit more…Pavarotti was a tenor. Tony was a Soprano.

August 18, 2008 @ 7:20 am | Comment

To Raj,

Dude you are truely unbelievable, first you said county parades are nothing, now you are saying winter olympics doesn’t matter either, only the summer olympics counts! Don’t you find that a little bit too convinient? Of course it doesn’t excuse anything China did, the point is although what happened in 2006 was equally bad or even worse, there was no controversy, there was no outrage, there was no nothing. All of you people who are screaming foul at top of your lungs rightnow didn’t care back then, or didn’t even know about it, because your own medias didn’t think it was news worthy. Now when it comes to China, hell is breaking loose.

Chinese aint dumb, if your criticism towards China is indeed well intentioned like some of you claimed, this pattern has to change; if you guys are just bashing……never mind n go on.

August 18, 2008 @ 10:24 am | Comment

@steve: You have very little understanding of those papers if you can’t tell them apart. They are very different.

I can’t even stand reading the national post. It is distilled ignorance. It can’t even support itself; it needs to have a hard-line rightwing nonprofit group donate to it in order to stay afloat. It’s propaganda from corporate masters. People used to give it to me just so I could get so pissed off that I’d tear it up after trying to read it(I’m apparently quite amusing when I get pissed off and violent).

Whereas the BBC, while sometimes inaccurate, at least tries to not be a complete load of horseshit.

@DJ: The VOA is propaganda, and shouldn’t be taken seriously by anyone. In the 90’s(not sure if anything has changed) it wasn’t even legal to rebroadcast VOA in the mainland US, because at the time, government using propeganda on it’s own people was thought as illegal.

August 26, 2008 @ 1:03 am | Comment

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