Hearting China

love China.JPG
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One of my colleagues was using MSN and I noticed that by every single name on her friends list there was a big red heart followed by CHINA in all capital letters. She said she started hearing from friends this morning that people throughout the country were going to do this to show solidarity and love of country. I then opened my own MSN friends list and saw a lot of the same. I wouldn’t be surprised if by day’s end there were tens of millions of MSN users proclaiming they “heart CHINA.” What was so extraordinary, according to my friend, is how fast this caught on and how “absolutely everyone” is doing it.

Nothing like a little controversy to rally the masses. I would say patriotism here at this moment is at an all-time high.

I was talking with a business acquaintance today who asked me whether Americans “hate the Chinese people.” I tried to explain that we don’t, but that there was a lot of misunderstanding between the two countries and a lot of misconceptions. I tried to explain very briefly why some Americans have problems with China’s government. She said she wasn’t surprised because our government systems are night and day. She went on to tell me just how much the Chinese love having a strong central government that they know will always be there, not to be put out of office every four years, and that will take care of all its people’s needs. She hearts CHINA and its government, big time. She wonders why we can’t all see the advantage of that kind of system, which to her makes total sense. It is the way it should be, and it is the way it’s always been in China.

There many things I wanted to say, especially about how there are quite a few people outside of Beijing and Shanghai whose needs are perhaps not being met too well, but decided this wasn’t the best time for that conversation. This is not a good time for any political discussion here, as anti-cnn seems to have won over the hearts and minds of just about everybody I know, and convinced them we foreigners do not and never can understand — let alone truly heart — CHINA.

The Discussion: 64 Comments

One nation, One voice. And it’s about the unity.

April 16, 2008 @ 6:49 pm | Comment

Damn, this is funny. I opened my MSN just now to see how this has spread, and everyone on my list (even two Taiwanese) has done the same…

lulz

April 16, 2008 @ 6:58 pm | Comment

Yes, and I am not criticizing that. I understand the concept of harmony is central to the Chinese psyche. And being unified for a common cause can be splendid. I just hope that with the unity there can also be calm discussion and not just emotional calls for boycotts or short-term actions that may feel good at the moment but achieve little over the long term, except perhaps making things worse. (Run-on sentence, apologies.)

April 16, 2008 @ 6:58 pm | Comment

I do agree with you , Richard, that boycotting is an immature way to handle problems. But to me that French companies are “on the list” is just because certain French people did exhibit the ignorance about how things work. We see from videos on youtube that the french men and the women, the elderly and the youth, were in the protesting group boycotting Bei Jing Olympics game summoned by their President; The mayor of Paris hung the huge banner on the buildings to advocate their so-called Human Right to “welcome” the torch leg in Paris. I think April 7th did enable the Chinese to see France in a totally new perspective. Boycott may be childish, but there is no better way to be heard. And the statement put out by carrefour did remind me of how much they care about the Chinese (market), what’s the old saying? “If one cannot stand the heat, one shouldn’t light a fire.”

April 16, 2008 @ 7:29 pm | Comment

Agree with Rachel ,,,.

April 16, 2008 @ 7:54 pm | Comment

@rachel

i assume you’re chinese. if not, my apologies. i am british. i spent 4 years in your country, where i was a dedicated and hard working teacher (in comparison to my colleagues) and taught myself chinese. during my time in china, i was variously informed that westerners are selfish, greedy, hate the old, have no family values and the women all act like whores. obviously this is reasonably offensive, however i tried to ask why they thought they way they did and explain where they might have a lack of information. i didn’t throw angry strops and start ranting about my incomparably great nation.

having learnt to read chinese i was rather dismayed to discover that the source of much of this negative attitude towards the west stems from the history books (yes, i have read them myself), the web and chinese media.

one of the few pleasures i have from my study of chinese is the reading of tang poetry. from my time in china i would say meeting my wife (not chinese) was the only thing that made the experience worthwhile. i regret going, and i regret learning the language. this isn’t due to my personal bigotry, but due to the attitudes of the people i have met. i felt/feel that the great efforts i went to to learn your country, culture and language simply resulted in a slap in the face with the discovery that everyone is commenting (negatively) about you constantly and has nothing but contempt for you and your culture. efforts to learn were often met with contemptous laughter or the response that “you are a foreigner – you can’t understand us”. perhaps you all need to take a long hard look at your own attitudes as well.

i recommend this web post (found on eswn) – i think it is excellent.

http://tinyurl.com/3tb7th

April 16, 2008 @ 8:25 pm | Comment

I think this will really be a turning point. Before, alot of people thought the majority of Chinese want Democracy but cant speak up, because they are repressed by the Government. Well, I think we should stop trying so hard to sell our democracy, it just looks damn desperate. Instead we should be very secretive about it and open something like a cool-people-have-democracy club, maybe that will make Chinese more curious. Its about how to sell it!

April 16, 2008 @ 8:42 pm | Comment

I don’t recognize the picture of China that Si describes. I lived there for 1.5 years to learn the language, and have very few experiences where Chinese people looked down on me for being a westerner (Swedish). On the contrary, the usual attitude was that my country — although pathetically small — was fairly respectable with good ping-pong players and cars. The times I was obviously “discriminated” against was in any bargaining situation where the getting a reasonable price was made difficult because of my being a laowai.

I feel that Chinese are just as nice as Swedes, loved every moment of it and am going back as soon as I can.

As for Chinese ideas about we in the west treat our old/children/loved ones, those prejudices are certainly not without basis, although slightly exaggerated.

April 16, 2008 @ 8:49 pm | Comment

http://guangzhou.images.skypp.com/large/495120.8108.jpg

从今天一上班开始
MSN上就有人陆陆续续在名字上面加了”爱China”的前缀
到了下班时间据不完全统计已经有这么多人了
且不论在西藏问题上的谁对谁错
因为那多数是意识形态上的差别
作为一个中国人
我只希望自己的国家能够安定和谐
并且举办一次成功的圆满的奥运会
而任何破坏以上这两点的行为
我想都是包括我在内的广大中国人所不愿看到的
我也相信中国人能像这个截图里面显示出来的一样
展示出自己团结的一面
因为我们โ€œ爱Chinaโ€

April 16, 2008 @ 9:02 pm | Comment

@rachel

One nation, One voice. And it’s about the unity.

One nation, one voice. It’s the triumph of the will, isn’t it? I think we have heard that before in a different olympics.

April 16, 2008 @ 9:15 pm | Comment

Si/Philip, a story I heard long ago.

A church sits between 2 towns, one to the east and the other to the west. One day a young man traveled through the east to the west, and stopped by the church and talked to the pastor. “People in the east town are horrible. they lied and cheated… So how are the people in the west town?” The pastor answered, “oh, much the same, my son, much the same.” The young traveler left in dismay.

The next day, another young man went from the west to east and stopped by the church. He had the same conversation with the pastor. “The people in the west town are so wonderful. They smiled at me and treated me well… so how are the people in the east town?” The pastor answered, again, “oh, much the same, my son, much the same.” The 2nd young traveler left happily.

People are much the same in the world. What you see in them, is actually what you see in yourself.

April 16, 2008 @ 9:35 pm | Comment

@Rachel

When you arrive to a new country and the people there have a vastly different opinion from yours, does it means that they despise you?
If so many people mobilized for TB, don’t you ask yourself why? Don’t you feel the need to find why their opinion is so different beyond blaming them of bias and of some cooked up conspiracy theory?
Try to bridge the gap and try to see the world through their eyes. Then you may learn something new and something about yourself too.

April 16, 2008 @ 10:03 pm | Comment

amban, I think it’s a bit harsh to compare those in China who believes in unity, harmony and one voice to the Nazis. We (Westerners) were brought up with a very different mentality, where the words One People, One Government, One Leader were the very embodiment of evil and thus we recoil from them. To many Chinese I know, this is a noble concept, something to strive for. Do I think this is misguided? Yes. Do I think they are Nazis in training? No. I wish they could get perspective and realize that “unity” can be a sinister thing when it means stamping out dissent. But I won’t even come close to making the Nazi comparison – it simply doesn’t fit, at least not to the people I know here.

April 16, 2008 @ 10:07 pm | Comment

And Jxie, thanks for that very pertinent comment. We tend to forget we are all humans, all made of the same flesh and blood.

April 16, 2008 @ 10:12 pm | Comment

@LG
Transalation by google
“Today, a work from the beginning
MSN on the land have been added in the name of the above plus “Love China” prefix
By working hours According to incomplete statistics there are so many people have the
Irrespective of the question of Tibet and the Who is right or wrong
Because it is mostly ideological differences
As a Chinese person
I only hope that their country can stability and harmony
And the successful holding of a successful Olympic Games
And any damage more than these two acts
I think, including myself, are the vast number of Chinese people do not want to see
I also believe that the Chinese people will like this title displayed inside the same
Show their solidarity side
Because we “love China”

(L)China+(L)Tibet ๐Ÿ˜‰

April 16, 2008 @ 10:20 pm | Comment

I am starting to have a clearer idea of what happened with this torch relay.

Th CH Government wanted to pull through a bombastic torch tour making deaf ears to any complain of the visiting cities about the problems in CH and its perception in the countries the torch was to visit.

Many people sensitive about the internal policies in CH took this as a sign of an overbearing power that do not want to hear and wanted to use their own streets for their own dark policies. What could be small and peacefully demonstrations turned suddenly into big and more aggressive ones.

Many CH people were unaware of the feelings in those cities and their government kept telling them that everything was going OK.

Then suddenly everything explodes and the people in CH see huge protest when the torch go through the streets in London, Paris and SFrancisco.

As a result the CH people feel themselves hurt and can not find other explanation that people there hate them or that there is a dark conspiracy against them.

The question is.
What would you do in the same situation?
What would you do if a foreign entity visited your main cities, mounted a big show to demonstrate how big and great they are to their own people, but at the same time attacking those beliefs and principles you hold dear?
Who would you blame then, yourself or that foreign entity who visit you without take care first of what you think?

In the end, a lack of PR abilities from the CH Government side.

April 16, 2008 @ 10:47 pm | Comment

What would you do if a foreign entity visited your main cities, mounted a big show to demonstrate how big and great they are to their own people, but at the same time attacking those beliefs and principles you hold dear?

Not to mention the goon squad China sent along with the torch to manhandle the citizens of the countries the touch was touring through. That hasn’t gone over very well either.

April 16, 2008 @ 11:51 pm | Comment

@ whatever that was related to my previous comments,

I am Chinese from mainland China. I think i know better than most of you about China’s problems, and i’m not afraid to admit them. Yes, we have our own problems. But i was talking about the event, you keep talking about the Chinese government. Why you always keep your “superiority”? You think Chinese don’t realize the obstacles and inadequacies of the system? You think Chinese believe in everything we heard from the government?

Plus, this love China act is about individual spirit, is about “we believe we win together, we lose together, we celebrate and we mourn together”… it’s not about Chinese government. What’s wrong with a little national pride? I saw people’s anger I heard plenty. What’s the most depressing is that some people are turning the purely objective Olympics – a sporting event – into a political circus. It is obvious that some of you are good at thinking in others’ shoes, so what if the same things happened to your own country?

You don’t have to listen to me, I say it the way i do when i have something to say, but I never would fantasize “i’d save 1.3 billion of Chinese people from an abyss of extreme suffering.”

April 17, 2008 @ 12:30 am | Comment

I’ll hazard a guess that most Average Joe Six-packs in America shouldn’t heart America, like putting up a national flag in front of your house. Americans heart America, Japanese heart Japan, and Chinese heart China. What’s so ‘hard’ to understand?

April 17, 2008 @ 12:55 am | Comment

i was a dedicated and hard working teacher (in comparison to my colleagues)

Everyone always says that.. are English teachers in China just as useless as they are in South Korea and Japan?

And the statement put out by carrefour did remind me of how much they care about the Chinese (market)

Carrefour is a horrible company anyway, so you aren’t losing much. Should make that boycott permanent. There’s no need to ever buy any European luxury goods either, it’s ridiculous that anyone would buy a $6,000 bag when their neighbors are drinking polluted water or starving.

One nation, one voice. It’s the triumph of the will, isn’t it? I think we have heard that before in a different olympics.

Enough with your stupid Nazi comparisons.

April 17, 2008 @ 12:55 am | Comment

I was really moved by this (L)CHINA action, I thought most of firends did the same. When I opened msn today, a friend noticed me this. I did add up, not because following the trend, it’s doing a little effort to the Great Nation CHINA! When I went off from work, I saw over half of msn friends added up LOVE CHINA. I thought the Patriotism aroused for the Nation. Even a journalist told me he felt something, the feeling of solidarity. As a citizen of CHINA, I am proud to do this, and I am proud we people doing this for our Great Nation as one heart!

April 17, 2008 @ 1:19 am | Comment

@Si,

“i went to to learn your country, culture and language simply resulted in a slap in the face with the discovery that everyone is commenting (negatively) about you constantly and has nothing but contempt for you and your culture”

Sorry to hear about your experience. But that’s exactly what the Chinese complains about the West too; that it only emphasizes the bad aspects of China and the West is often arrogant when dealing with Chinese people (when I was in high school, in explaining China’s one child policy, my teacher actually said the Chinese threw second babies into fire pits!).

And when they show their hospitality (i.e. be hosts for the Olympics) they have received nothing but contempt in return (they have, among others, been labeled supporters of genocide), they feel like they have been slapped in the face too.

So I think it’s time both sides should reflect on its own failings first before pointing fingers at others.

April 17, 2008 @ 1:23 am | Comment

“””””As for Chinese ideas about we in the west treat our old/children/loved ones, those prejudices are certainly not without basis, although slightly exaggerated.””””””

I’ll just agree with that, maybe it can help the Chinese people realize that I am not ahypocrite, give criticsim where criticism is due, if the CCP were right here in my country or even if I was the one person who came up with the whole idea of the CCP, I would say it sucks!

Richard, you said that Westerners will not be able to say they heart China, well I do, I really heart China….

Confucious, Buddhas, temples, fantastic beliefs, morals, ideals, cuisine, environment, lakes, mountains, smart people, caring people, thoughtful and open people…. What a history,

To note, in Chinese history when a dynasty was too rotten, it would be ousted and a new dynasty would come into play. Now we have a situtation where someone has erradicated Chinese culture and warped history to accomodate to the idea that one party has to stay in power NO MATTER HOW ROTTEN and cruel. Is that normal? Is that Chinese? Is it the Chinese way to let the great people live by lies? Is it okay to make excuses for a party that kills people for thinking freely? Thats not the Cinese way.

I would say the CCP is a rotten monolith of anti culturalism and anyone who supports it is fooling themselves if they think they heart China.

It is the Chinese dissidents who heart China. But the brainwashing for sure says otherwise…. It reminds me of the murder of Jesus or Joan of Arc……Good people who were murdered by rotten monoliths proclaiming to be doing the righteous thing, protecting the people from heressy.

April 17, 2008 @ 1:33 am | Comment

Hi, Cathy

I felt pity about the illiteracy of your teacher. That is misunderstanding between China and western countries. Right now our nation is facing big challenge from outside. But you know we as people of CHINA are loving our country even some problems there. We’re showing our patriotism and doing our small efforts to support CHINA!

April 17, 2008 @ 1:44 am | Comment

Hello!
Every thing in China is very nice , i am Maroccan girl,
iam very intersted to know and learn about chines culture and languages, also i thank my friend there
who give this sitweb, really ifind more things very important to see and read, also i love china and iwish more success for chines olymbec 2008.

Posted by: Sarah jasmine

April 17, 2008 @ 2:13 am | Comment

Snow:
CCP today is totally different from CCP 20 years ago. It has become so much better. So, NO, I don’t think it is rotten. You can’t have a static view of things in a place that is transforming so fast.

April 17, 2008 @ 2:45 am | Comment

americans hang/wear their national flags everywhere. So what’s wrong with Heart China?

April 17, 2008 @ 2:48 am | Comment

@rachel

We do not have any superiority nor believe to have any. What makes you think so?

I think the persons who organized the torch did not take head of the thoughts and feelings of the people the torch was to visit, that has created a backlash which now hurt in return the CH people.

Yes, we do not know many things about CH, and you also do not know many things about EU as the last events shows

But it was CH who was coming to us first, without wanting to hear our thinking first.
You said that we treat CH as inferior, I say to you that we felt many CH opinions as overbearing and demanding.

I have no problem with a heart for CH, quite a few here have it too.

And if you (L)China do not forget to (L)Tibet and their people also.

April 17, 2008 @ 3:19 am | Comment

it’s not that all of chinese are satisfied to the so-called kind of system of this country, such as me. Actually, we have gotten lots of complaints about it. Most of us are not nationalists. we just don’t feel good when our foreign friends appear some criticisms which based on unreal reports that west medias released. Loving our country doesn’t equal to loving this regime, but if someone distorts the truth we have to fight for it by our own way.

By the way, in fact, there is no balance between chinese and occidental over understanding each other. Actually chinese, especial those who have received advanced education in universities, learned more about west world than that occidental learned from china.

April 17, 2008 @ 3:22 am | Comment

@icebean et al

A fascinating view of CH

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20041223_1.htm

April 17, 2008 @ 3:31 am | Comment

A lot of people on my list have it too.

Even my Tibetan friend, who was completely a-political just a few weeks ago, has it her MSN display name. Yesterday she tried to convince me to put it up too.

When did this start? I just found out about this yesterday. Did it become this wide-spread in a day?

April 17, 2008 @ 6:34 am | Comment

*has it on her MSN display name.

April 17, 2008 @ 6:35 am | Comment

I think there is a value in having an open society, with democracy, a society that values individuality, and defends the weak.

Thats why I believe strongly in my own country, however much our leaders have sold us out and however much we contradict ourselves, and however disappointed I get in human nature. It is tribal at the end of the day.

(heart) china is the same thing. Different feeling, different beliefs, different reasons. Chinas f***ked anyway, an environmental disaster, and we are in a very bad way ourselves.

April 17, 2008 @ 8:28 am | Comment

“Even my Tibetan friend, who was completely a-political just a few weeks ago, has it her MSN display name.”
The myth of the “convert” who sees the light.

April 17, 2008 @ 9:42 am | Comment

“The myth of the “convert” who sees the light. ”

Of course you wouldn’t know such people existed because you were following Western media. The Western media, of course, assume that all Tibetans are oppressed anti-communist individuals just as they previously assumed all Chinese are anti-CCP Tiananmen protesters. The media in essence, deny their very existence.

When you find out that they do, in fact, exist in large numbers, the obvious reaction is denial.

“He who doeth evil hateth the light”—One of the few sentences from the Bible that I find to be true.

April 17, 2008 @ 10:40 am | Comment

The myth of the “convert” who sees the light.

Sounds like all of your imaginary African, Tibetan-in-exile, and Chinese friends.

Guess you don’t like the same arguments when they’re directed at you.

April 17, 2008 @ 11:30 am | Comment

When you subtract the Taiwanese, Uyghurs, Hui, Tibetans and Mongolians, there aren’t 1.3 billion people.

@ Rachel, China is swimming in its own filth. So much for lifting so many people out of suffering.

April 17, 2008 @ 12:10 pm | Comment

attacking one person’s view does not look pretty.
hearing one side of the story and refuses to listen to where the issue arose is not quite smart

so i say…you these China-bashing people, stop pointing, accusing and yelling about what you think Chinese people don’t know

you know why there is a colision? you think you know China, 4 year, knowing some Chinese characters being able to understand some simple chinese DOES NOT MEAN YOU UNDERSTAND CHINESE PEOPLE, CHINESE PEOPLE’S LOVE FOR THE NATION AND CHINESE CULTURE

so i say
stop imposing your opinon that is influenced by your culture, your media and all the information you consumed from wherever you are and leave this issue alone to the Chinese.

There is nothing wrong showing pride in loving one’s country
Chinese aren’t as stupid as you think that need your preaching…
so shut your mouth if you can’t balance your slanted opinion
or chew some orbit, if you can’t stop speaking hypocrisy.

April 17, 2008 @ 12:50 pm | Comment

“stop imposing your opinon that is influenced by your culture, your media and all the information you consumed from wherever you are and leave this issue alone to the Chinese.”

Nobody is ‘imposing’ their opinion. They’re expressing it, and there is a difference. If you’re going to listen to people and organisations in the Free World, you’re guaranteed to hear opinions that you don’t like and don’t agree with. Everyone does. You either have to deal with it, or stick to talking to people in your own country and reading your own government’s newspapers. No one is going to rewrite their censorship laws to spare PRC feelings I’m afraid.

April 17, 2008 @ 1:15 pm | Comment

“Sounds like all of your imaginary African, Tibetan-in-exile, and Chinese friends.”
First of all, I don’t have any African friends.
Second of all, if you don’t believe my commentaries, that’s ok with me, as I fully expect someone such as yourself to paint it as big bad “western bias” (although the idea of Tibetan refugees in the US being glad to have left China certainly would not be anomalous, thus leading one to wonder about the source of your disbelief…)
However, Jinhan’s “tibetan friend” who simply loves china struck me as very much reminiscent of the many “gay friends” that homophobes often cite after an inappropriate comment. It is very similar to the rumors on the Internet of “Taiwanese” and others (including Tibetans and Uighurs in a number of posts) on MSN who suddenly decided to express their thorough love for China. Don’t mean to be cynical, but it’s nothing more than an illusion.

April 17, 2008 @ 1:32 pm | Comment

@Lime,

Not to embarrass you…I am in, according to your opinion, I am in the “FREE WORLD” — the United States, where people are so vocal about the First Amendment: the freedom of speech, expression and press…

and not to embarrass you… I hold a degree in mass communication

so, it’s okay….admit there is a thing called, FCC, there is a thing, people would love to subsitute “censor” by “regulation”, so if you want to stick to talking to the people who share your idea of the free world, and your kind of “freedom oof speech” be my guest

April 17, 2008 @ 1:35 pm | Comment

It’s also quite funny that after I cited Tibetan refugees in the US who were glad to have left the PRC, ferin, for one reason or another, asked for “names.” WTF? However, after Jinhan described his “Tibetan friend” (after all doesn’t every (fill in the blank)-ist have a friend from the group whose oppression they encourage, so as to show what “good people” they are), ferin took this anecdote 100% at face value and chose to question me after i questioned jinhan. I guess it just goes to show again precisely how “ferin reasoning” works (“those doggone ‘Westerners!'”). I await the burst of curse words and personal insults which inevitably follows for displaying this apparent illogic.

April 17, 2008 @ 1:41 pm | Comment

PS- schnappie, if you would like to draw a parallel between the FCC and the Central Propaganda Department (don’t fall for the recent change to “publicity”), be my guest. However, anyone, besides perhaps a few commenters, can see the difference. While the FCC is focusing on Janet Jackson’s breast (a mission which I agree is completely ridiculous and outdated, and can say this openly in my society), those who monitor the media and the Internet in China are focusing on deleting the latest politically incorrect comment on sina.com or people.com.cn. Draw parallels at your own risk!

April 17, 2008 @ 1:45 pm | Comment

kevin.

Read on about FCC first and see where it is coming from, 5 commissioners apponited from dear president bush; i am sure there isn’t anything political involved…sure

hey, if you want to repute my post, try the next argument: “regulation” and “censorship”:

you want to talk about internet censorship? have a thourough check on the YouTube and Facebook. Oh yeah, they delete videos and posts that are against the “Pro-Tibetan government -in-excile”
too!

and Kevin,
you want to talk about Tibetans? who are the tibetan people who moved to the U.S? why did they move? don’t tell me it’s the CCP’s suprression, caz that’s exactly what the mainstream media is telling you. What do you know about the Tibetan? What do you know about Tibetan history?

Learn your vocab and related concepts before trying to debate.
keep talking at your own risk!

April 17, 2008 @ 1:55 pm | Comment

I think that my vocab is decent, although I would like to expand it. As for your later questions, indeed, the people that I know from Tibet did move because of the CCP’s suppression. That might be why they qualify for a little something called “asylum.” I am also quite familiar with Chinese and Tibetan history.
Thanks for your patronizing reply. Perhaps you could send me a history quiz next?

April 17, 2008 @ 2:04 pm | Comment

“have a thourough check on the YouTube and Facebook. Oh yeah, they delete videos and posts that are against the “Pro-Tibetan government -in-excile” too!”
Actually, they don’t.

April 17, 2008 @ 2:08 pm | Comment

If the Chinese want to have a real “coming-out party” to celebrate their re-emergence as a great world power, how about they start acting like one? That means accepting criticism of state policy as such, and not as some sinister attack on the entire Chinese nation and race.

April 17, 2008 @ 2:10 pm | Comment

and you are not welcome.

how do you know they don’t? do you work for them?

are you speaking from what you have studied from the media?

familiar with…where did that JOKE coming from? what kind of history?

again, if you don’t know, say you don’t know, it won’t hurt much as you think, in fact, keep repeating what other people say, or being a nice bandwagon jumper is much more foolish than saying you don’t know.

admit it: you don’t know much about China
admit it: you don’t know much about Tibet too.
admit it: you don’t know much about the U.S media (traditional mass, or contemprary interactive)
admit it: the more you say the more loopwhole you leave for your argument.

I don’t see my responsibility of teaching anyone who is so stubborn with their hypocritical worldview, but here are two things to tickle your mind:
if you still have a slight will to accept a different view, you would act wise and read into them, if not, yelp on. I will stop wasting my time in you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhG9-LdwG_k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDBriDq4LRI
http://www.amazon.com/CIAs-Secret-War-Tibet/dp/0700611592

April 17, 2008 @ 2:37 pm | Comment

and you are not welcome.

how do you know they don’t? do you work for them?

are you speaking from what you have studied from the media?

familiar with…where did that JOKE coming from? what kind of history?

again, if you don’t know, say you don’t know, it won’t hurt much as you think, in fact, keep repeating what other people say, or being a nice bandwagon jumper is much more foolish than saying you don’t know.

admit it: you don’t know much about China
admit it: you don’t know much about Tibet too.
admit it: you don’t know much about the U.S media (traditional mass, or contemprary interactive)
admit it: the more you say the more loopwhole you leave for your argument.

I don’t see my responsibility of teaching anyone who is so stubborn with their hypocritical worldview, but here are two things to tickle your mind:
if you still have a slight will to accept a different view, you would act wise and read into them, if not, yelp on. I will stop wasting my time on you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhG9-LdwG_k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDBriDq4LRI

http://www.amazon.com/CIAs-Secret-War-Tibet/dp/0700611592

April 17, 2008 @ 2:39 pm | Comment

yea accepting those false criticism and biased accusation will surely make China a stronger nation lol

April 17, 2008 @ 2:51 pm | Comment

Kevin is right, the comparison between the FCC and the Chinese censorship machine is ludicrous. So ludicrous it threatens your credibility, Schnan. You sound pretty bright. Can you give us examples of FCC censorship that you find particularly offensive? Just four or five so I can see what’s on your mind… I can give you several thousand when it comes to censorship here, such as this morning on CNBC when my screen suddenly went black with the news of the torch in India… Have you ever seen that, or anything even remotely similar, in America?

April 17, 2008 @ 3:12 pm | Comment

It’s some how a little bit hard for a western people to understand why chinese are feeling so united. That’s because of history.
Through 5000 years, we experience too much. Wars within han nation and between each ethnric. There are so many times when population just reaches 50million drop back to 10million. There used to be a dark period when each nations in China are fighting with each other. That’s like the hell.
It’s just hard to seperate us with the saying of nation. Well, it’s hard to explain, a long story.
What is clear is that from Tang Dynasty -> Qing, even though the demand changed over time, but the basic composition of Chinese are the same.
During the WWII when Japan invade China, no body really care which etheric people are coming from. What people knew, protect our country.
Now, we are begin with our peaceful life, and grow stronger. We simplely don’t want to turn China back into the ancient time or another mid-east where there are still wars happening because different values.
I recently read some post about the pro-China parade during torch relay. I see some Taiwanese bring the post showing “one heart, one standard” and I read about Taiwanese who bring the read flag to cheer for olympics and read complains from Taiwanese people who hope to let the torch went to taiwan. They say: at this point, we are Chinese. For a Chinese, party comes after a nation. When the western media are fercing on China and making up the truth to insult China, I am sorry, we don’t like that.
Just like people are saying: we were called “sick of Asia”; we were questioned when we can send our players to the Olympic games and when we can hold our own olympic games. From then on, we have a dream, and we have the dream for over 100 years. This is a dream for peace and pride. No matter what, we are asking the world to see China today!

April 17, 2008 @ 3:43 pm | Comment

@ richard.
so you want to take a look at my paper. I will. once it is finished, I will post it to share with you all. something the same, something veri similar, and more, what you would claim “remotely similar”

by mid May, you will see. Let me shut your mouths with facts and figures.

just wait.

April 17, 2008 @ 4:09 pm | Comment

@cathy

that’s the point i was trying to make. both sides could do with a bit of measured reflection

@kazan

“Through 5000 years, we experience too much.”

you’re doing well for your age, kazan. could you share the secret of your long life?

April 17, 2008 @ 4:22 pm | Comment

@Si.

Let me get this straight. You regret going to China. BUT, you met your wife there.. Ah. Am I missing something? It doesn’t matter that your wife happens not to be Chinese. Fact is, you met her in China. I assume you’re still happily married to your wife.

It seems to me, at this point, there are two types of foreigners who go to China. You, Si, are the first type. You go to China, thinking you already know something about the place, and then you discover that what you thought you knew didn’t accord to the reality on the ground. As time wore on, you become disillusioned and disappointed that the place cooked up in your fantasy didn’t accord with the reality. I’ve read quite a few foreigners who have given this account.

The second type of foreigner is the type of foreigner I like to be in China. This type of foreigner keeps an open mind on China. He/she recognise that she/he knows dogshit about China when he/she arrives. He/she also recognises that the western media had probably feed him/her a crock of dogshit about China for years and years that, initially at any rate, are bound to temper his/her attitudes towards China and the Chinese people. Nevertheless, he/she keeps an open mind on the place and is willing to adapt and change, and go with the flow.

Paul

April 17, 2008 @ 4:24 pm | Comment

The H China tag (like the US flag lapel pin) is a lazy meaningless gesture. It requires no real effort and makes people think they are doing something.

As for loving or hating China, China’s closest neighbors (S. Korea, Japan, Vietnam, India) all highly distrust the Chinese government and many of the Chinese living in their countries. There is a genuine fear of China, thus America gets little resistance to stationing tens of thousands of troups in the area.

The day China gets a multi-party political system will be the day China gets due respect, not a day sooner.

April 17, 2008 @ 7:04 pm | Comment

Hi there Paul

You are right, my previous comment was a bit OTT, I am just sick of reading the “Poor Little China, What Never Did No Harm to Nobody” narrative. Nevertheless, I feel your accusations are a bit harsh. I mentioned the fact my wife isn’t Chinese as most people would probably assume she is and would attack with the “if you hate us so much why did you marry a chinese blah blah”

My four years (on and off) began in 2001 and I left in July 2006, which if I read yr blog correctly, was when you arrived in China. As you say my post, at first glance, looks a little strange. If I dislike the place so much why did I stay? Well Paul, it was a gradual thing. I arrived in China, started teaching and learning the language. I met some nice and charming people. I also met people who were a bit impolite. I put it down to my personal misfortune at meeting a prat. However as time went by, I met more and more of these people and gradually came to viewpoint that these attitudes were the prevailing ones.

I was interested to see that you assert “He/she also recognises that the western media had probably feed him/her a crock of dogshit about China for years and years”. Isn’t this the same negative assumption (except in reverse) you accuse me of having? I was also interested that you link to the China Daily BBS on your blog. I am not convinced that is a source of measured Chinese opinion.

Having learned the language to a newspaper/blog reading level and having made the effort to understand the place, as well as studying many of the issues regarding China at the postgraduate level, I feel that I am reasonably knowledgeable about the place. I am not convinced I can say the same of you.

@richard

Just wanted to say that this will be my last post for a while. I have been commenting on this blog on and off for about 3 years and wanted to say you have been an excellent host. Good luck in the future!

Best wishes

Si

April 17, 2008 @ 7:58 pm | Comment

JXie and Echodelta – thankyou for the proverb and the link to those images – they have provided much needed perspective for myself. Having studied politics, chinese, and asian studies for the past four years, I always intended to return to the country i fell in love with on my first exchange – yet recent events have forced me to question my own ideology, the ideology of the chinese and the morality of what is happening. it is so easy to get lost in these grandiose ideas and forget the basic human element to it all. So, having booked my ticket, i’m coming back to it all with a more open mind. So cheers!

April 17, 2008 @ 8:02 pm | Comment

sorry that you’ll be missing for a while, Si.

As for the ‘hearting’, I attribute the phenomenon as much to the Chinese inclination to follow the herd as a gesture of national unity. Not many Chinese would want to be seen as ‘not’ loving China by failing to ‘heart up’ their MSN.

April 17, 2008 @ 8:13 pm | Comment

@Si.

Good Grief!! I was very nice to you in my comment. In response, you give me a haughty response, thinking you’re superior to me. You launch an ad hominem attack on me. I’ve been in China for a year and 9 months and, apparently, you think this isn’t enough time to have acquired a reasoned and balanced and informed view of China. So what are you saying? If I were in China as long as you, I’d just be as bitter as you about the place?

I pointed out the illogic of what you wrote. You wrote you regreted coming to China and yet you met your wife there, notwithstanding she’s not Chinese. So, logically speaking, you regret meeting your wife?

And, by the way, my populism will always win over your snobbery. Oh, you studied Tang poetry. Oh, I get it. Since I haven’t, that means I am not qualified to give an opinion on China.

I’m glad to hear you’re taking a break. Goodbye.

Paul

April 17, 2008 @ 9:59 pm | Comment

Talking about the propaganda that “Let Olympics be only for sports not for politics”, I am wondering what about letting Taiwan enter the Olympics stadium and hold up high the flag of the Republic of China. Would the Communist Chinese government let Olympics be only for sports?
I don’t think the Communist Chinese government would like to taste her own medicine.

April 18, 2008 @ 4:30 am | Comment

“Let Olympics be only for sports not for politics”

So I’d say all politicians from whatever country should stay away. It’s only for the athletes, isn’t it?

April 18, 2008 @ 5:19 am | Comment

Or how about that peewee World Cyber Games during which the mainland kids hurled abuse at the Taiwanese winner for displaying the RoC flag?

http://www.hardcoreware.net/taiwanese-winner-creates-controversy-at-world-cyber-games-in-seattle/

โ€œF**k your mother!โ€ โ€œWas his mother a bitch dog?โ€ โ€œWhat kind of trash flag is that?โ€ โ€œYou are not Chinese!โ€

Something for Taiwanese pan-blue types to think about.

April 18, 2008 @ 1:31 pm | Comment

Chinese Goverment(CCP) and Chinese people, simly have a love&hate relationship, I ‘m supprised no one in the West, polictians, do-gooders, pundits and bloggers could realize this. If you done figured out what Chinese ppl hate about CCP, what they love about CCP, you probably wouldnt come up with this boycott Olympics idea, imo the stupidest humanrights promoting idea in the new millenium.

April 20, 2008 @ 4:45 pm | Comment

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