CCP to CNN: Apologize for calling us goons and thugs

This seems to be a bad year for relations between CNN and the CCP. On top of the maddeningly flimsy charges voiced on the anti-cnn website, which has led to threats against Western journalists, CNN now has to deal with a Party gone apoplectic over remarks by a CNN commentator.

China demanded an apology from CNN on Tuesday after network commentator Jack Cafferty called the country’s leaders a “bunch of goons and thugs” and said its products were “junk.”

It was the latest flare-up after Beijing accused Western media of bias in its reporting following violent protests in the Tibetan capital last month. Atlanta-based CNN has been singled out by some Chinese who say overseas news outlets are smearing Beijing.

“We are shocked and strongly condemn the vicious remarks by Cafferty,” Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu said. “We solemnly request CNN and Cafferty himself take back the malicious remarks and apologize to the Chinese people.”

…He was speaking about the U.S. trade deficit with China when he said, according to the transcript, “We continue to import their junk with the lead paint on them and the poisoned pet food and export, you know, jobs to places where you can pay workers a dollar a month to turn out the stuff that we’re buying from Wal-Mart.”

“So I think our relationship with China has certainly changed,” he continued. “I think they’re basically the same bunch of goons and thugs they’ve been for the last 50 years.” Network spokeswoman Edie Emery at CNN headquarters in Atlanta pointed out that Cafferty made a clarification Monday on “The Situation Room.”

“I was referring to the Chinese government, and not to Chinese people or to Chinese-Americans,” Cafferty said, referring to the ‘goons and thugs’ comment, on Monday’s program.

Gut reaction: Cafferty was insensitive and stupid for his broad-brush generalization, which seemed to be a very sweeping condemnation of China. Whoever in The Party is going nuts over this, however, is making another mountain out of a molehill and drumming up yet more animosity toward CNN.

I know, I know, they are shocked and offended and hurt and all that but commentators often throw around harsh and even idiotic opinions, but that’s what you get for freedom of speech, a relatively small price to pay for what America has long considered its most important freedom (at least until our current president was sworn in). Cafferty should perhaps be reprimanded or be put on leave for a few days, but the dumb remarks of a two-bit commentator shouldn’t be enough to push The Party into hysterics.

Is it deep, neurotic insecurity sitting on the shoulder of the world’s largest documented inferiority complex, or is it a calculated and cynical ploy being used to drum up yet more fenqing support and national outrage to keep everyone in China defending the all-knowing and omnipotent Chinese Communist Party?

The Discussion: 69 Comments

What do they usually say about the US on CCTV9? Curious about the comparison…

April 16, 2008 @ 11:24 am | Comment

You know, anti-cnn said they “just want the truth.” Then, when CNN says the truth (goons and thugs), they get angry! What’s a network to do?

April 16, 2008 @ 11:29 am | Comment

Defending a racist scum, eh?

No surprise there. Some of us are here exactly that.

April 16, 2008 @ 11:34 am | Comment

@Jinhan: Uh…what?

April 16, 2008 @ 11:40 am | Comment

Maybe it’s the CCP’s tactic to further discredit CNN (and vicariously the entire Western Media), to pre-emptively neutralize future (negatively perceived) media reports about China. See, the CCP are learning, and learning quick – using one’s meida weapon against oneself.

April 16, 2008 @ 11:50 am | Comment

Why should Cafferty be reprimanded or suspended? His tone was harsh, but as a commentator and not a reporter he’s not obligated to be guarded about his opinions. Moreover, he’s basically right (Beijing leadership *does* comprise “goons and thugs”, only now they’re mostly technocrats instead of revolutionaries, and many Chinese exports *are* shoddy and lacking in quality control.)

April 16, 2008 @ 11:54 am | Comment

Note the “PERHAPS,” nausicaa. That could be used as a token gesture just to show the Chinese they acknowledge Cafferty was a bit rude. I don’t necessarily recommend it, but if they do feel they have to do anything, that is as far as I would go.

Let’s also look at his precise words: “So I think our relationship with China has certainly changed. I think they’re basically the same bunch of goons and thugs they’ve been for the last 50 years.”

I think it’s a matter of semantics, which is why it should truly be a non-issue, like Obama’s “bitter” remark this week. If Cafferty had said “I think some of the leaders of China are the same bunch…” it would have come across with less controversy. Unfortunately, they way he said it sounds like a blanket criticism of the nation, which is obviously (to sane people) not the point he was making. And Cafferty did qualify his remarks making this even more of a non-issue. Maybe a token slap on the wrist for unintentionally insulting the Chinese people (in their eyes, anyway) would be in order, maybe not. But no kowtowing apology is called for. The CCP should just grow up.

April 16, 2008 @ 12:05 pm | Comment

yup, the same goons and thugs that saved China and reinstituted its soverignty and lifted millions and millions of its people out of poverty and misery. If anything, What China needs is more not less of these socalled goons and thugs.

Shoddy exports?? Hey if you’re not willing to pay more, dont expect better quality products.

April 16, 2008 @ 12:21 pm | Comment

The chinese gov refuses to allow its own media to report what goons and thugs they are. They should never be allowed to even come near influencing CNN.
Why is it “Westerners” who always need to apologize for even the most trivial of things, while anything the Chinese gov does, including murder, can be rationalized?

April 16, 2008 @ 12:27 pm | Comment

“But no kowtowing apology is called for. The CCP should just grow up.”

See, Richard, this is the type of s**t that pisses of Chinese people. Who are you to tell the CCP to grow up, and just what the hell does growing up mean in the global political spheres? You might think what they do is crass, but it’s by no mean an immature act. What? just cuz Saddam allegedly said he wanted to kill W’s daddy, and now W bombed Iraq to the stone age. Now should we’ve told W to just grow up? Please, you have no understanding of the CCP and what they’re trying to do. And that’s exactly why and how the West is doomed, you people are eternally doomed to fail to understand the Asian mindset.

April 16, 2008 @ 12:33 pm | Comment

There are goons and thugs in the party. I despise them. There are others who are not goons or thugs. Unfortunately, the goons and thugs often seem to get their way. Ask Hu Jia.

I don’t give the goons and thugs an iota of credit for lifting millions out of poverty. All they did was sit back and let Chinese people do what they do best, buy and sell. All they did was let go of some of their thuggery to free up the markets, but retaining enough of their thuggery to intimidate their citizens and hold onto power without dissent.

April 16, 2008 @ 12:34 pm | Comment

Middle Finger, take a look at how this blog criticizes Bush, even more harshly than it does the CCP. America’s fuck-ups never justify China’s (typical fenqing “logic” at work here, I’m afraid).

You ask, Who am I too criticize the party? Someone who enjoys freedom of speech and who likes to write stuff on his blog about topics he feels passionate about. That’s all. You no like, no gotta read.

April 16, 2008 @ 12:38 pm | Comment

Actually it looks like this campaign for apology started with the overseas Chinese community. See link here: http://www.petitiononline.com/cnncaff/petition.html. It appears the Chinese government picked up on it later and then made it its own issue. To that I’d say, the Chinese government should just butt out. They usually ruin everything.

I think the reason the Chinese are much more active now than before is because they have realized the power of pre-emptive strike. If you keep silent and never say anything, little by little, the other side will assume that you are a push over, and little by little they will distort the issue to their own favor.

The Tibet issue is far from black and white and yet almost the entire West is convinced that the Dalai Lama is 100% right because for 20 years the Dalai Lama has carried out one of the greatest PR campaigns ever. The Chinese people never protested or presented their point of view. At this point, it is almost too late.

April 16, 2008 @ 12:42 pm | Comment

>What? just cuz Saddam allegedly said he wanted to kill W’s daddy, and now W bombed Iraq to the stone age.

To be fair, it was a little more complicated than that. Not that I’m saying the war was an awesome idea or anything.

April 16, 2008 @ 12:43 pm | Comment

Jack Cafferty isn’t a US official; he is an individual expressing his private opinion. For China to demand an apology from him is a blatant attack on Western liberties. I guess this is more of what we have to look forward too in the coming decades; I guess if it was up to Party central, the Western media would only be able to use duplicates of Xinhua articles like they do it in the domestic Chinese market.

Time for America and the West to grow a pair and tell the Chinese that if they don’t like what they see to change the channel.

April 16, 2008 @ 12:58 pm | Comment

Some guy, fully agree. The world always has to tiptoe around their fragile egos. So strong and so rich and so omnipotent, and so weak and frightened.

April 16, 2008 @ 2:01 pm | Comment

Is it deep, neurotic insecurity sitting on the shoulder of the world’s largest documented inferiority complex, or is it a calculated and cynical ploy being used to drum up yet more fenqing support and national outrage to keep everyone in China defending the all-knowing and omnipotent Chinese Communist Party?

I’m with B on that. Demonization has worked so well for the party in other areas (see section on Recent History, in entry Shui-bian, Chen) that they are probably at a loss to explain why it isn’t working for them vis-a-vis the Dalai Lama.

Michael

April 16, 2008 @ 2:46 pm | Comment

Middle Finger Kingdom,

“just cuz Saddam allegedly said he wanted to kill W’s daddy, and now W bombed Iraq to the stone age. Now should we’ve told W to just grow up?”

Wait…you HAVEN’T told Bush to grow up and stop destroying the world yet? Good Lord, man, where have you been? I’ve insulted Bush half a dozen times just in the past week! I used to write a blog on which I frequently insulted Bush. I once said in the middle of a crowded classroom, “I think Bush is just stupid, really”. In this country, we are actually allowed to do stuff like that without fear of reprisal. (Although it has gotten worse since Bush became President…did I mention he is the worst President in American history? Even worse than that guy who died after 30 days)

See, this is why these “fenqing” arguments of hypocrisy on the part of Westerners just don’t hold up. Most of us (not all) are perfectly consistent in our views, and criticize our own government and China’s government in equal measure.

April 16, 2008 @ 2:50 pm | Comment

I need to insult Bush at least once before breakfast, personally. Otherwise I just can’t get going in the morning.

April 16, 2008 @ 3:10 pm | Comment

@ Richard:

“If Cafferty had said “I think some of the leaders of China are the same bunch…” it would have come across with less controversy.”

Which PRC leaders AREN’T goons and thugs, now or in the past 50 years? Every “nail house”, peasant beating and drop of filthy water flowing through Chinese taps demonstrates that the rot is deep and thorough.

@ Micheal Turton:

I know some Chinese who have been to Lhasa, and while they swear up and down that Tibet is part of China, for them going there is like us visiting Jerusalem and they have profound, spiritual experiences that make the shopping malls finally seem hollow and meaningless ( or at least less meaningful) and some do question the CCP’s treatment of the monks.

April 16, 2008 @ 3:42 pm | Comment

what the commies don’t realise is in their bid for face they are making themselves look more and more ridiculous. farcical is the word being used most here. most people cared not a jot about china before the olympics and now those neutrals will be mainly anti-china (as a reflection of their anti-ccp stance), based not on the right or wrong of the situation, but on the self-righteous, hectoring attitude of the ccp. what a bunch of idiots they look

April 16, 2008 @ 4:29 pm | Comment

I was looking for something else and happend to come to this page.
After looking at previous posts, just want to make a comment. You guys probaly don’t mind to be called “groons and thugs”. But for Chinese people, IT IS a big insult. To understand the feeling, please imagine some people on a internation media say Christians are groons and thugs.
Please learn respect different culture and people with different culture.

April 16, 2008 @ 4:56 pm | Comment

I’m glad to know that racism is part of “freedom of speech” and freedom and democracy. I truly adore this system of human rights, and no wonder it seems to work well only in Western countries dominated by White Caucasians, presumably not “groons and thugs”.

April 16, 2008 @ 5:35 pm | Comment

>BAAAAAW

>Posted by: John at April 16, 2008 05:35 PM

Fixed.

After the start of the Iraq War, the French got a lot of bashing from the Americans, remember Freedom Fries? But instead of BAAAAWing about it like China does, they shrugged it off with their characteristic Gallic nonchalance.

April 16, 2008 @ 5:39 pm | Comment

“Time for America and the West to grow a pair and tell the Chinese that if they don’t like what they see to change the channel.” — from Some Guy

Boy, now you are asking the Chinese people to change the channel because they don’t like what they see? What is it? An Adult Entertainment Channel just so happened to be named as CNN? No wonder the US and the EU failed, and still will fail, to win over the hearts and minds of the Chinese people. It’s like calling the American People a bunch of warmongers and murderers just because some American politician decided to avenge his dad’s death threat by bombing another country to stone age. Cafferty and Some Guy, you both grow up and get a life. ๐Ÿ™‚

April 16, 2008 @ 5:59 pm | Comment

ITT: More BAAAwing

It’s not the job of the Western MEDIA to “win over the hearts and minds of the Chinese people”. They can say whatever they like, and if you don’t like it, tough. The West isn’t China; individuals don’t have to be and won’t be “harmonized” so that governments save face. You have this idea that commercial media should be made part of the West’s foreign policy effort to win Chinese over. It’s not. Chinese need to start accepting that individuals in the media represent THEMSELVES.

April 16, 2008 @ 6:05 pm | Comment

@Cathy

“The Tibet issue is far from black and white and yet almost the entire West is convinced that the Dalai Lama is 100% right because for 20 years the Dalai Lama has carried out one of the greatest PR campaigns ever.”

During the last few weeks I have read several articles in European newspapers that showed very critical views of the DL. I also had quite a few discussions that showed people here have a big variety of opinions on the Tibet issue and the DL. This whole story about “Western bias” and “the West” thinking this or doing that “against China” is just a myth created by the CCP and their propaganda organs.

“The Chinese people never protested or presented their point of view.”

Well, the Chinese government usually doesn’t allow them to protest or present their point of view, unless they find a way to channel the people’s frustrations and direct them at some outer enemy.

April 16, 2008 @ 6:12 pm | Comment

@nanheyangrouchuan

“Which PRC leaders AREN’T goons and thugs, now or in the past 50 years?”

Well, there was this guy, what was his name, who spent the last 15 or 16 years of his life under house arrest, because he had tried to avoid a bloodbath. If you ask Chinese people about him, most of the younger ones don’t even know him, most of the older ones will stick to the official version that he made “big mistakes” and whoever dares to say something different has already been infected with “spiritual pollution” by “biased Western media”.

April 16, 2008 @ 6:20 pm | Comment

Chris Patten ever get an apology for being called a tango dancer and serpent?

I just heard CNN apologised, saying they “didn’t mean to cause offence”. Pathetic.

April 16, 2008 @ 7:03 pm | Comment

10 commandment said: “It’s like calling the American People a bunch of warmongers and murderers just because some American politician decided to avenge his dad’s death threat by bombing another country to stone age.”

You think nobody said that? Maybe not in Europe, but for sure in other places, and I doubt anyone apologized for it.

That being said, reporters should not call an entire country ‘thugs and goons’, which is what this guy did. If he meant ‘some of China’s leaders’, he should have said that, period. As the statement stands, it’s racism and if I were Chinese I would be offended too.

April 16, 2008 @ 7:25 pm | Comment

Mick: “Chris Patten ever get an apology for being called a tango dancer and serpent?”

Good point, lol

April 16, 2008 @ 7:52 pm | Comment

You guys, how do you think you have the right to criticize China and Chinese people. Have you ever come to China and had close touch with Chinese people, do you know what most of Chinese people understand their country? Different from what you think, most Chinese love our country and have faith in our government. Don’t forget the 5000 years’ history of this country, it’s not a country that you can critize and you can understand in your “western way”.
However, the best way to understand is to create chance to communicate. If you come to China, you will probably feel surprised to find that people here are as honest and friendly as most of the people in the world. Further to your surprise, most people here have a friendly attitude towards American people. Chinese people have never been the “goons and thugs” as the commentator has said, and will never be!!! You should feel shame for all the insulting words you have added to Chinese people.

April 16, 2008 @ 8:39 pm | Comment

In his original remark, Jack Cafferty called the Chinese as a โ€œbunch of goons and thugsโ€. He did not say it was about the leadship of Chinese goverment. This was much more offensive than what Don Imus said.

April 16, 2008 @ 10:10 pm | Comment

I was watching that show when it was broadcast. Anyone with sense (which might be asking a bit too much of the anti-cnn crowd) could see that he was talking about the Chinese government. Charges of racism are out of place, though naturally expected considering the source.

April 16, 2008 @ 10:39 pm | Comment

What do you want from us?

From the day when we were called Sick man of Asia, we had been called the Peril.
When we are billed to be the next Superpower, we are called the threat.
  
When we closed our doors, you smuggled opium to open our market.
When we embrace Freed Trade, you blame us for taking away your jobs.
  
When we were fallen apart, you marched in your troops and wanted your “fair share”.
When we were putting the broken pieces together again, “Free Tibet” you screamed, “it was an invasion!”
  
When we have a billion people, you said we were destroying the planet.
When we tried limiting our population numbers, you said it was human rights abuse.

When we were poor, You think we are dogs.
When we loan you cash, you blame us for your debts.
  
When we build our industries, you called us polluters.
When we sell you goods, you titter for their cheap price, meanhile scold us for fostering global warming.
  
When we buy oil, you called it pillage and Genocide.
When you fight for oil, You called it Liberation.
  
When we were lost in Chaos and rampage, You wanted to make Rules of Law for us.
When we uphold law and order against Violence, you said it violated Human Rights.
  
When we were silent, you said you want us to have Free Speech.
When we were no more silent , you say we were Brainwashed-Xenophoics.
  
Why do you hate us so much? We asked.
“No,” You answered, “We don’t hate you.”
  
We don’t hate you either,
But do you understand us?
  
“Of course we do,” You said,
“We have AFP, CNN and BBCs…”
  
What do you really want from us?
Think hard first, then answer…
  
We’ve seen enough Hypocrisy in this world.
  
We want One World, One Dream, And Peace On Earth.
– This Big Blue Earth is Big Enough for all of Us.

April 16, 2008 @ 11:56 pm | Comment

@Voice from a Chinese
Who is ‘you’ exactly?

April 17, 2008 @ 1:01 am | Comment

Its weird whats going on here…

I’ll clarify my own stance on “China”

1. China is not the CCP. The CCP is a marxist style authoritarian mental dictatorship. China is not a culture where peoples minds are stricly controlled and where people are treated as enemies if they think freely. China is a place where people of all thoughts can flourish and philosophize and the Chinese culture is so beautiful because of that. Now it has degenerated into a fearful government and a fearful people who accept that they are not allowed to have thought freedom. Either that or be severely punished.

2. Why do Chinese people think that if they love their country they have to make excuses for the CCP?

3. The CCP committed atrocities from the GLF to the cultural revolution, campaign after campaign AGAINST CHINESE CULTURE, in order to make Chinese people into what they want, into people they can easily control. The Falun Gong people, for example are severely demonized, the party uses this demonization constantly to cause the Chinese people to attack certain ideas and people. The cultural revolution has never been erased, it is still the guiding philosophy of the ends justifying the means.

4. Why do the Chinese people believe that all of this mind control and persecution will lead to a great country? Do the Chinese people think North Korea os a great country? I have a question, Would a truly great government that truly loves the people, need to lie to them and withhold information, torture people and illegally imprison them for dissent? Wouldnt a great country have a leader who could be honest with people and teach wisdom and just law? The CCP perverts all moral principles so that it can be evil and still say it is right.

5. It is so sad that the Chinese people have no voice, or very few small ones. The voices of the real Chinese people are not that strong right now, they are severely threatened and they have to worry that the CCP will torture their family members, not just them… So the Western media says things about ‘China’ and is actually talking about the regime, well, they are the only ones that are allowed to have a voice and they have highjacked the country of China. BUT that is NO EXCUSE for the western medias absolute complacency, laziness and coldness toward the real situation in China. The real people in China who we dont hear from, are worth talking to and it is a very interesting story. I hope that the Western media will quickly investigate and realize that Chinese people are not the CCP, although, if the people have no protection, how can they speak out? For the Chinese people who are the CCP, well, you are either very fooled or very bad, hope its the former.

And Richard, if you look at the core of the party and you look at their general policies and behaviours, you cannot say that you Are not a party to them if you are in that party right? So I think the good people who are in the CCP should just quit and do something better that does not involve the evil of being part of such a group…

2.

April 17, 2008 @ 1:03 am | Comment

“2. Why do Chinese people think that if they love their country they have to make excuses for the CCP? ”
============
we don’t, at least I don’t. I think what they did prior to 1978 was wrong.
However, things do chang. Ever since the 1978 reform, what CCP has been able to accomplish is truly amazing. No, it is not as easy as you thought, CCP just sit back and relax. Reform during the peak of the cold war takes courage and guts. Institution building takes knowledge and skill.

April 17, 2008 @ 2:59 am | Comment

Richard:
If this a single/isolated remark, then it isn’t a big deal. But you have to consider the background/timing of this. Beijing’s demand for an apology is simply used as a way to fight back ? Probably not a great one, but can’t really blame them either.

April 17, 2008 @ 3:28 am | Comment

@STQ
Well yes I think I we can blame them. When you consider how much smack is talked about the governments, politicians, and political parties of other countries including the US on CNN and other free world news networks, we have to assume that either the CCP is ignorant of how free world media works, or expects that it should give them better treatment than they give politicians in their own country.

April 17, 2008 @ 4:09 am | Comment

I don’t like CCP and I wish they are out of power. But when I heard the comments by Cafferty, I felt deeply insulted, for one, nobody forces anybody to buy the cheap goods from China. It is americans that can’t get enough of these “Junk” from China. Why blame China?

Cafferty wants to look tough, but he is a fool. This is a perfect material for CCP. this whole Tibet thing end up to be the best gift the west can give to CCP. they could get 10 more years of rule out of this. Tibet cause is doomed.

April 17, 2008 @ 6:20 am | Comment

@mor,

This whole story about “Western bias” and “the West” thinking this or doing that “against China” is just a myth created by the CCP and their propaganda organs.”

I disagree. I live in the US and based on the evidence I have seen, there is a clear bias against China. They are never given the benefit of the doubt. The Dalai Lama’s tutor was a Nazi but we do not really question that. But if the Chinese President had a tutor who was a Nazi, all hell would break loose.

“Well, the Chinese government usually doesn’t allow them to protest or present their point of view, unless they find a way to channel the people’s frustrations and direct them at some outer enemy.”

This is the irony of it all. We in the West complain that the Chinese government silences the voice of the Chinese people. And yet when they actually voice their opinions and these opinions do not suit our taste, we simply dismiss the Chinese people as brainwashed or manipulated by the CCP government. In this case, I don’t think it’s the CCP channeling the people’s frustration. If anything, it’s the people leading the CCP.

April 17, 2008 @ 9:04 am | Comment

@Cathy
“I disagree. I live in the US and based on the evidence I have seen, there is a clear bias against China.”

Well of course we Anglospherians have a bias against the PRC. The first news out of the PRC that everyone paid attention to, since the Korean War, was the Tiananmen Square Massacre, and the only one since then, at least before this Tibet thing, has been the poisoned dog food, toothpaste, and toys affair.

I don’t believe it’s the media’s fault. We just don’t care that much about the China, so it takes a lot of blood, or a threat to our own lifestyles to get us to pay any attention.
I’m still just amazed by all the Chinese Americans and Canadians who did not seem to realise this until now. Was everyone too polite?

“This is the irony of it all. We in the West complain that the Chinese government silences the voice of the Chinese people. And yet when they actually voice their opinions and these opinions do not suit our taste, we simply dismiss the Chinese people as brainwashed or manipulated by the CCP government. In this case, I don’t think it’s the CCP channeling the people’s frustration. If anything, it’s the people leading the CCP.”

You make a decent point here. But it is still a two way street. If the patriotic China Mainlander expects the average European or North American to respect his or her opinion, they also have to respect the opinions of the free worlder advocating Tibetan independence, letting up on the Falun Gongers (organ harvesting or not), or whatever else.

I think you’re quite right about the CCP being led farther away from the free world by its people, and the same thing is happening the other way too. It makes sense to our leaders to become friendlier with the PRC, but anti-CCP protesters have made such a stink that they now have to put some distance between themselves and the CCP. So now everyone is discovering that they have a golf tournament or fundraiser to go to on the day of the opening ceremonies.

Ironic thing is that politcally, Europe and the Anglosphere’s governments should be, if not enemies, at least not the best of friends with the PRC’s government, but in terms of social and cultural values, the people of Mainland China are among the most simpatico to ours of any other large bloc of people on earth, and should be our natural ally.

April 17, 2008 @ 9:44 am | Comment

you don’t go telling other people’s babies are ugly
when you do and offend other people, you apologize, NO MATTER whether you meant it or not

freedom of speech is just something the American government designed to make its people feel that their voices are heard, and then decide the other way

April 17, 2008 @ 10:38 am | Comment

yeah man…..after reading all these……still think the non-Chinese people really are misinformed about real China…..friking Cold War mentality

they NEED better UNDERSTANDING…..at least more willing to want to understand

loved the post by: Voice from a Chinese at April 16, 2008 11:56 PM

and the Chinese are the ones brainwashed….LOL

April 17, 2008 @ 11:02 am | Comment

After reading all those posts, it is clear to me that most of you never being China, never want to go to China, but want to comment Chinese people and China as a whole. Let me give one example to tell the difference between Chinese people today and American people today. In China, any government news, reports or anything regaring ourside or inside matter, events, or whatever, their first reaction is: this is not true, this is propagada until this is supported by third party media such as CNN before( I am not sure if CNN still have name after this). In US, if government does the same thing to its people, people trust the news first, until someday being told otherwise. Iriq war is one of perfect examples.

Why Chinese people are so suspicious about their government? becasue they have been cheated before 1978. When they speak out, it is not becasue their govn’t told to do, it is the true feeling.

Why American people so trust their govn’t? becasue they have told this since they in preschool:”We are not the perfect country, but the best country in the world”.

Things are changing. Changin fast. Many people include majority of white people in US do feel bias media reports about China, media is media, you can do nothing about. One thing for sure, many American people once they come to China, stay a few more days, they see the problems immediately: why our media didn’t report this? The simple answer is: the govn’t doesn’t want to their people know.

April 17, 2008 @ 2:12 pm | Comment

>why our media didn’t report this? The simple answer is: the govn’t doesn’t want to their people know.

The US government does not the US media. There is no government agency from which all news stories are sourced.

April 17, 2008 @ 2:15 pm | Comment

I never tire of richard’s seemingly effortless intellectual pwnage of the nationalist moonbats I never tire of richard’s seemingly effortless intellectual pwnage of the nationalist moonbats I never tire of richard’s seemingly effortless intellectual pwnage of the nationalist moonbats I never tire of richard’s seemingly effortless intellectual pwnage of the nationalist moonbats <3

April 17, 2008 @ 2:16 pm | Comment

Why American people so trust their govn’t? becasue they have told this since they in preschool:”We are not the perfect country, but the best country in the world”.

Umm what school system did you go to? I went through a US public school system and can recall far more times when my American teachers told me of American evils. This wasn’t because they didn’t like America. It was to help us develop critical thinking skills, to reconcile the idea that our country is a great one with the fact that it has many serious faults, and to do so in a far healthier way than seems to be done under the ‘ai guo zhu yi’ system.

April 17, 2008 @ 2:30 pm | Comment

Liked the post by Voice of a Chinese, but I too wonder who is ‘you’. I know it’s not me, I never smuggled opium. I suspect perhaps it is Bush (although I don’t think he ever smuggled opium either). In which case perhaps VoaC should send this to the White House.

April 17, 2008 @ 7:40 pm | Comment

personally i think that this guy quite overstepped the borders of free speech; it’s a commentary, but serious libel.

to be more self-explanatory, how would the USA like it if CCTV9’s commentator described the americans openly as irrational religious unscientific people?

perhaps it’d be more acceptable, but China is angry because of the loss of face. something that the western world does not recognise.

lambasting each other and measuring one another by your own standards is not the world’s way to progress. there are 1.3billion chinese; the bell curve is great. you can’t expect stellar behaviour from everybody.

April 17, 2008 @ 8:13 pm | Comment

ITT: faulty comparisons

Xinyuan, you know very well that CCTV, UNLIKE CNN, is a state broadcaster with no editorial independence. If a CCTV-9 commentrator described Americans as irrational and unscientific people, it would reflect the opinion of the State, whereas Cafferty’s opinions reflect ONLY HIS OWN VIEWS. Therefore the analogy you have chosen to draw is obviously inaccurate, short-sighted, and easily dismissed.

THE GAME, YOU JUST LOST IT

April 17, 2008 @ 9:42 pm | Comment

I understand he has the right to say and probably that was what he actually thinks. Freespeech allows him to say what he thinks. Very logic.

But, shouldn’t there be a boarder line between responisibility and freespeech? especially the responsibility of a mainstream media and a popular political commentor? Insulting a nation does not make him a hero of free speech. Turning 1.3 billion people into his enemy is simply stupid.

Fitna is on youtube, what do people actually want from such a freespeech? What’s going on with the self-centred ‘freespeech’ now?

April 18, 2008 @ 1:27 am | Comment

That’s bull$hit, those “1.3 billion people” (and to be honest, I doubt most of them give a damn) are choosing to feel offended. The French got called cowards and cheese-eating surrender-monkeys after the start of the Iraq War, but they didn’t start BAAAWing and making a spectacle of themselves the way Beijing is doing. They reacted with characteristic Gallic nonchalance.

April 18, 2008 @ 1:43 am | Comment

@Cathy

“I disagree. I live in the US and based on the evidence I have seen, there is a clear bias against China. They are never given the benefit of the doubt. The Dalai Lama’s tutor was a Nazi but we do not really question that. But if the Chinese President had a tutor who was a Nazi, all hell would break loose. ”

I agree that a big part of the media as well as a big part of the population in the USA and in other countries, including my own home country, are biased against China, but that’s only half the story. There are also many who have a bias in favor of China and/or it’s government and there are also those who are trying to show the whole picture. In China, most media have a very strong bias due to the fact that they are all controlled and supervised by the authorities, in other words the party. There are a few who do a very good job at testing the boundaries and limits of censorship. I hope they will be given more freedom in the future.
Talking about the Dalai Lama’s tutor being a Nazi, as far as I know the Dalai Lama was educated by Tibetan lamas. Were they Nazis? Heinrich Harrer was far from being “the Dalai Lama’s tutor”. Besides, I’m not sure if Mr. Harrer’s involvement with the Nazis, at a time when he was very young, means that he was a Nazi all his life.

“This is the irony of it all. We in the West complain that the Chinese government silences the voice of the Chinese people. And yet when they actually voice their opinions and these opinions do not suit our taste, we simply dismiss the Chinese people as brainwashed or manipulated by the CCP government. In this case, I don’t think it’s the CCP channeling the people’s frustration. If anything, it’s the people leading the CCP.”

You are raising a good point here. I would like to ask you one question though. What about the opinions of people like Hu Jia and others who have been arrested only for expressing their feelings on certain issues? Should they be imprisoned just because the opinions they voiced don’t suit the taste of certain people in the government? They are Chinese aswell.

April 18, 2008 @ 2:50 am | Comment

I really appreciated what Jack Cafferty said, he called it as he saw it, and it is only half the truth. Not just last 50 years, but more like 300 years, there is a tradition. As for toxic China, he forgot to mention the 100+ children that were killed in Panama, with no apologies or compensation, and damage control. China’s first response was, at first, deny then modified denials, and then blame it on the Panamanian importer. Well, for good riddance China executed their FDA Director a Mr. Cheng, who had nothing to do with the Panama case, then Trader Joes immediately, removed all China products from their shelves. Something Jack said had to be true. The CCP leadership is so stuck up that they are don’t pay their 100,000 student vounteers for the Olympics, nor did they pay Steven Speilberg any wages, forced their atheletes like Yao Ming to pay kickback, execute mayors, deputy mayors, Generals for taking a bribe or but hardly ever execute the bribe giver, if that is not thuggery what is it? Remember this is the country that discovered to their shock over 2,000 slaves working in brick kilns and other labor intense factories, etc. Wasn’t it billed as a worker’s paradise?

Dr. Sun Yet Sen overthrew the Manchu dynasty for corruption, the corruption is still there. It is now systemic.

Jack was just kind, he should speak up more.
Another time another day.

Why not buy from India, it is only money.

April 18, 2008 @ 3:05 am | Comment

I really appreciated what Jack Cafferty said, he called it as he saw it, and it is only half the truth. Not just last 50 years, but more like 300 years, there is a tradition. As for toxic China, he forgot to mention the 100+ children that were killed in Panama, with no apologies or compensation, and damage control. China’s first response was, at first, deny then modified denials, and then blame it on the Panamanian importer. Well, for good riddance China executed their FDA Director a Mr. Cheng, who had nothing to do with the Panama case, then Trader Joes immediately, removed all China products from their shelves. Something Jack said had to be true. The CCP leadership is so stuck up that they are don’t pay their 100,000 student vounteers for the Olympics, nor did they pay Steven Speilberg any wages, forced their atheletes like Yao Ming to pay kickback, execute mayors, deputy mayors, Generals for taking a bribe or but hardly ever execute the bribe giver, if that is not thuggery what is it? Remember this is the country that discovered to their shock over 2,000 slaves working in brick kilns and other labor intense factories, etc. Wasn’t it billed as a worker’s paradise?

Dr. Sun Yet Sen overthrew the Manchu dynasty for corruption, the corruption is still there. It is now systemic.

Jack was just kind, he should speak up more.
Another time another day.

Why not buy from India, it is only money.

April 18, 2008 @ 3:06 am | Comment

Not sure why it is so hard to understand Cafferty’s comment is racism. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean you have to right to do ethnic insult in public. It is that simple.

April 18, 2008 @ 5:46 am | Comment

@George
Actually, in the US, it does. Notice how the Klu Klux Klan is not outlawed?
But what he was saying wasn’t racist, he was criticising the government and the economy of the PRC, which is different from criticising an ethnicity. As I say, though, even if he were making an ethnic slur, in America he would be within his rights.

April 18, 2008 @ 5:59 am | Comment

It’s worth pointing out that the phrase Cafferty used, “the Chinese,” has been distorted by the Chinese media to translate as “โ€ฐร˜ยl”, which is obviously inaccurate. “The Chinese” is abviously a rather ambiguous phrase since it doesn’t explain what it refers to. A true example of media bias and distortion, and one for which the Chinese government is responsible.

April 18, 2008 @ 1:12 pm | Comment

Woops, that should be “Huaren” but the Chinese characters don’t seem to show up properly.

April 18, 2008 @ 1:14 pm | Comment

@Lu
Thank you for saying that you liked my post.

Frankly speaking, “You” refers to some occidental people. however, not to all, but only to those who hold ineradicable bias aginst China and Chinese people, like many I’ve seen in this blog. However, I’m so glad to see that many of western people still have their open mind with China, and have shown their support to us. We don’t want 100% understanding from western people, because of our different culture background, further more, China is too big and too complicated, and there’re surely something that is not good, but, just being able to get some encouragement is warm enough. We welcome any well-intentioned criticism, but not the spiteful attack.

“When we closed our doors, you smuggled opium to open our market. ”
This refers to Opium War, taking place in 1840-1842, during the reign of powerless Qing Dynasty government, who implemented “close-door” policy and led to the eclipse of China. Opium War started because British merchant smuggled opium to China, and developed into a war between Qing Dynasty and Britain, France, Portugal, America etc, but ended in Qing government’s ceding HongKong to Britain and MaCao to Portugal.
This is the history and we don’t want to tell the people of today to carry the history liability. But please don’t forget the long history of China, and her history of being invaded. What Chinese think today, and what the Chinese people look like today, is not only something related to CCP’s governing, but also related to the long and heavy history of China, and our ever-glorious but declined (but will be glorious again) culture and tradition. However, we’re not trying to change western people, why western people are always trying to change us?

Again, “We want One World, One Dream, And Peace On Earth.
– This Big Blue Earth is Big Enough for all of Us.”

April 18, 2008 @ 1:17 pm | Comment

Voice, you seem like a nice Chinese person (- :

But I guess you do not know that the regime that your country is under is not staying only in China. Your last comment was about you not wanting to change ‘us’ but you might need more info on that because, look, the world is melting into one big pot in a way and the word Superpower means that the superpower has powers relating to the whole world. Your China is a superpower, which is great, I love it! But if it is under the CCP regime, I do not want anything to do with it. But, it lies all the time, it spreads propaganda and convinces the leaders of my country to do things it shouldnt do and to not do things it should do.

The other problem is that I do not want to change anybody, but there are some people in China who are treated very badly and they are trapped and cannot defend themselves, and I really do care about that. I respect your opinion that you do not want people changing you, but I think that the people in the gulags indeed appreciate the support they get from people like me who care about them.

April 18, 2008 @ 2:29 pm | Comment

To LIME:
Quoted: “As I say, though, even if he were making an ethnic slur, in America he would be within his rights.”

Does this mean it is ok for him to use the N-word, to support KKK and to support Nazi?

Thanks for bring the KKK example in your post. Don’t forget what people have done to outlaw KKK, that is what we are trying to do here. So that the world knows racism is not OK, not even toward Blacks, Jews, but also toward Chinese or Asians.

April 19, 2008 @ 3:22 am | Comment

To those blame Chinese government to distort Mr. Cafferty’s comment. I am not sure if you watch the video clip on what Mr. Cafferty has said or not. His comments are absolutely not pointing toward Chinese government but Chinese people instead.

I noticed many people dislike Chinese government and I am not trying to persuade you to change here. However, even for your own interest and conscience, it is not right to do the exact opposite of the Chinese government does. CPP suppressed tibet riot, then you guys have to support tibet riot. Don’t forget the case of Bin Ladin, tibet rioters are terrorists just like Al Quaeda.

April 19, 2008 @ 3:36 am | Comment

“Clinton adviser quits over China rhetoric”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9719.html

*โ€œOur reasoning was that while China certainly bears a share of responsibility for these (and other) problems, much (if not most) of the blame, at least on the economic issues, lies elsewhere,โ€ Baum wrote in an e-mail. He attributed the problems, at least in part, to Americaโ€™s high level of consumption, deficit spending and selective trade protectionism.*

April 20, 2008 @ 10:20 am | Comment

http://www.slate.com/id/2188409/

“India, the other country often mentioned as a China surrogate, has not yet managed to get its act together to take advantage of China’s rising export prices. Importers say India is good at certain thingsโ€”embroidery, for instanceโ€”but not at the volume production that the world depends on for cheap goods. India’s road and port infrastructure, while improving, is nowhere near as efficient as China’s.”

April 20, 2008 @ 11:09 am | Comment

My apology to Jack Cafferty and CNN
I think Jack Cafferty is basically the same goon and thug he has been for the last 50 years. He behaved exactly like such a goon and thug on April 9 when he faked as a commentator during a junky show on poisonous CNN.
I am aware of concerns about my comments related to Jack Cafferty and CNN in the context of his foregone stupid mouth exercise and CNN?s circus shows, which I just made a moment ago.
I would like to clarify that it was not my intent to cause offense to Jack Cafferty and CNN, and would apologize to anyone who has interpreted the comments in this way.
I am a person that reports the news in an objective and balanced fashion. However, as part of my coverage I also employ myself as a commentator who provides robust opinions that generate debate.
On this occasion I was offering my strongly held opinion of Jack Cafferty and CNN, not the American people, not all US news organizations ? a point I am clarifying immediately after I made the comments.
It should be noted that over many years, I have expressed critical comments on many people and many news organizations, including the American people and its leaders, and American news organizations and their managers.

April 20, 2008 @ 11:58 pm | Comment

I saw Mr. Cafferty’s comments, and I’m pretty sure he meant the Chinese government. While it might have been insensitive or off-base, it’s well within a person’s rights to offer commentary like this. I wished he were more clear in his statement, so we don’t have millions of offended Chinese.

We used to say in the U.S. Army, in response to civilian’s right to free speech and demonstration: “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” No kidding.

Just sayin’. I wonder if there an analagous motto in any other army.

April 22, 2008 @ 4:11 am | Comment

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