Anti-Japanese ads in China

You will want to see these.

china japan ad.jpg

The Discussion: 106 Comments

Very good posters! I support them! Why there are such posters! Why don’t you ask Koizumi?! Why does he not start behaving like a civilized human and stop visiting the shrine and changing the textbooks.

In fact, it is also the Japigs who started insulting the Chinese first. In 2002, Toyota in China broadcasted an ad for their car that showed two lion statues (symbols of China) bowing to a Camery car when it entered the scene.

In 2004, Nippon Paint in China showed another poster ad in which two dragons sculptured on two columns sliding down the columns and lose their power , because the paint is very “smooth”.

January 17, 2006 @ 6:18 pm | Comment

HX, you’re more sensitive than a fat insecure teenage girl in a LA high school.

Dragons sliding down pillars is brilliant marketing. I haven’t seen the commericals but they sound hell of a lot less antagonistic than the anti Jap posters on the post.

What animal could they have used that wouldn’t have pissed you off?

January 17, 2006 @ 6:29 pm | Comment

My wife was in Shanghai recently and saw signs on taxis refusing service to Japanese. Are the toilet signs also for real? It would be interesting to see some photo essays on anti-Japanese sentiment in China.

January 17, 2006 @ 6:43 pm | Comment

I find it interesting that in one of the posters at the bottom with the map of China and the Japanese flag covering certain small sections, they didn’t even get the location of Nanjing correct, haha.

January 17, 2006 @ 7:17 pm | Comment

How can a country that alone represents the whole of Asia (half the world’s population) in the UN security council allow such race-hate posters? A country that must resort to such pathetic public whining cannot be considered a member of the grownup club of civilised nations.
Can you imagine what would happen if Britain had such posters attacking the Germans? Or Irish? Or those bloody Spaniards? Don’t get me started on the French…

January 17, 2006 @ 7:29 pm | Comment

HX: In fact, it is also the Japigs who started insulting the Chinese first.

Are we back in nursery school?

January 17, 2006 @ 7:32 pm | Comment

“Can you imagine what would happen if Britain had such posters attacking the Germans? Or Irish? ”

Either you are ignorant or I have been mis-informed. One of my collegue is from Scotland. He was born here, but his grandma was still at Scotland. He told me that his grandma never curse. She never said “Englishman”, because in her vacabulary that word is a dirty word.

Hatred/bad feeling can last a long long time. Chinese are not alone here. All of us should be sensitive to others’ feeling.

January 17, 2006 @ 7:52 pm | Comment

Steve, are their similar ads like this in Scotland? Or anywhere in Europe? I don’t mean a sign put up by an ignorant racist kook, but fancy, ad-agency-developed slicks in commercial publications? Let me answer for you: No, there are not. Because this sort of childishness would be an embarrassment to any normal country. I expect to see this sort of thing in Syria, where they show movies depicting jews as monsters. It’s a sign of insecurity, ignorance, stupidity and blatant racism, not to mention poor taste.

January 17, 2006 @ 8:00 pm | Comment

To my knowledge, many old americans from WWII avoided buying German cars, while Germany has completely repudiated its past.

Now, look at Japan. The emperor overseeing all the killing is still there. Japanese government officials rushed to visit the shrine with A-class war criminal. Is there anything wrong with avoiding buying Japanese products?

Frankly, no.

Some adds maybe indeed bad taste, but they does reflect a strong sentiment among Chinese people. You guys are simply dismissing it as a result of CCP brainwashing. That is ignorance on your part and that is also used by Japan to further pursue insensitive shrine visit.

January 17, 2006 @ 8:20 pm | Comment

Oh please. First of all, these ads are made by individuals, not the country China. Secondly, I see a lot worse racist crap by Americans against the French, who, if I’m not mistaken, did not rape and kill millions of Americans and deny it today. These things don’t even say anything except for oppose the country Japan and boycott Japanese products, how the hell is that racist? Again, many Americans say boycott French products, and for what?

http://www.google.com/search?q=boycott%20france&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=iw
Results 1 – 10 of about 2,020,000 for boycott france.

http://www.billoreilly.com/site/product?pid=18704
BillOReilly.com: Boycott France Bumper Sticker

http://www.geocities.com/wallacejohnus/
Try burning THIS flag, asshole!!!Boycott France bumper stickers, T-shirts, sweatshirts, etc — Get yours today! … France sucks, Boycott France. I hate the French, you hate the French, …

January 17, 2006 @ 8:29 pm | Comment

I don’t know the details, but how many people died under the Japanese’s ruthless conquests compared to the CCP’s ruthless and incompetent rule? Someone informed please quote the numbers.

People refusing to buy Japanese cars or Jews that refuse that Bayer drugs are a far cry public corporate campaigns preaching hate.

Rich, you also find such posters in Iran. Seems every continent needs at least one.

January 17, 2006 @ 8:36 pm | Comment

If China is really secure about itself, no need for such unsubtle graphic design.

January 17, 2006 @ 8:48 pm | Comment

For those who don’t see anything hateful, you either:
a) can’t read chinese
b) are lying.
Look at the poster with the foot stepping on the mouse with the japanese flag.
it literally says “I will crush you to death.”
a truly peace-loving nation of people, huh?

January 17, 2006 @ 8:52 pm | Comment

“but how many people died under the Japanese’s ruthless conquests compared to the CCP’s ruthless and incompetent rule?”

This stupid argument has routinely popped up. It is also a key arguement by Japanese to justify their action.

In both cases, Chinese are victims. Why should they take one insult simply because the other one is not settled?

January 17, 2006 @ 9:07 pm | Comment

“but how many people died under the Japanese’s ruthless conquests compared to the CCP’s ruthless and incompetent rule?”

Let’s see, you are saying that the Chinese people have no right to protest and “dislike” Japanese right-wing elements because the Chinese people’s own government did worse things to them? So you are gonna walk up to a Chinese person and say, “What the hell are you complaining about? Look at your own CCP!”. I’m sorry, but I fail to see the logic in that

January 17, 2006 @ 9:11 pm | Comment

Steve has been here a lot longer than you, China Hand. And he knows he can voice his opinion here.

Meanwhile, I reject his and China Hand’s arguments, but am glad to provide them a forum to express themselves.

January 17, 2006 @ 9:27 pm | Comment

Following the link back from ESWN to the original, I don’t see that any of these have appeared in a mainstream publication.

It seems that at 6park.com they are conducting voting on their favourite ad. {Somebody else can surely double check on this.} But that suggests more of a contest to produce an anti-Japanese ad, which might not be all that different from going to certain US internet boards and finding a contest to produce slick hate art.

There may be strong undercurrents of anti-Japanese feeling in the mainland, but let’s not go all MEMRI and blow this out of proportion based upon random art found on some internet bulletin board, whose whois information leads back to Leeds.

January 17, 2006 @ 9:34 pm | Comment

Wow, those are emotionally-charged posters. Do they have any similar posters made to express their feelings towards the 77 million that died under Mao?

January 17, 2006 @ 9:36 pm | Comment

Complaining about Japanese neocons is understandable.

Stating that all Japanese people should be crushed is blatanly and undeniably racist.

There’s a difference.

January 17, 2006 @ 9:40 pm | Comment

Anonymous, that’s an interesting piece you linked to. Too bad it’s from Wing Nut Daily, which has a dreadful track record. I hope the professor’s analysis makes it into more accepted media.

January 17, 2006 @ 9:46 pm | Comment

You’re right Tom, I accept that. I don’t know where these ads have been placed, and presumed they were mainstream. They do look like they were profesionally designed, but I don’t know that, either. I do know that the usual crowd over here thinks they are A-OK, and is proud to see them.

January 17, 2006 @ 9:48 pm | Comment

And the ultimate irony, of the FIRST poster (the one with the Chinese lion stepping on Japan), is that China would still be part of the Japanese Empire if it were not for America.

American defeated Japan. China’s contribution to the war against Japan was negligible. (Millions of Chinese – mostly KMT – died in that war, but they did not fight in winning ways. Millions of Japs fought too and they lost. Point here being, that simply eating a lot of bullets does NOT mean that you win the war.)

America defeated Japan, almost single handedly – because America fought better. Period. The Japanese soldiers crumbled whenever their leaders were decapitated. Rather like the Chinese, the Japanese do not know how to function independently or how to think for themselves.

America defeated Japan, and China owes its liberation from Japan, to America.

However….can you imagine how RIDICULOUS it would look, for a poster to show Uncle Sam stepping in a Chinese flag TODAY? Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? And YET….

WHOSE Army is still in Japan, after 60 years of occupation? Not China’s.
America’s.

I hope some Chinese Nationalist savages will think about that. Not that they ever really think about anything other than their masturbating about “China”…..

January 17, 2006 @ 10:06 pm | Comment

— Now, look at Japan. The emperor overseeing all the killing is still there. —

Er, no, Hirohito has actually been dead for a very long time.

These “posters” don’t look mainstream at all. They seem to be more like those photoshop pieces that are circulated in email forwards. And lots of nationalities are guilty of such petty hatred.

January 17, 2006 @ 10:15 pm | Comment

Richard, I reserve comment on the sincerity of that section of regulars. {Doubting sincerity of wingnuts comes from spending too much time with the trolls at The Eschaton}

On the other hand I do recognise the shameless self-promotion aspect in reproducing shocking controversial posters. It isn’t the only anti-Japan article at 6park, but it surely is the most sensationalistic.

Why choose the unsourced topic, when the less sensationalistic ones actually have attributed sources that apparently lead to official Chinese news?

January 17, 2006 @ 10:22 pm | Comment

These posters, as “tasteless” as they may be, are limited in circulation on the internet, and are limited to the country of Japan. There’s no company or organization that publishes these things.

But you want to talk about bigotry and insecurity?You go to any American right wing fan sites, you can actually BUY professionally manufatured tshirts, mugs, hats, sweaters that say everything from “Boycott the French” to “Nuke Iran” to “(some ethnic jokes about Arabs)”, etc.

The United States Congress even renamed French Fries to Freedom Fries in their cafeteria for a while. The United States Congress!

January 17, 2006 @ 10:26 pm | Comment

China_hand, if you really are a china hand then you should know full well who stands behind Tong Zeng and his crowd of anti-Japanese fanatics along with their hate machine. You should also know full well the company that produces their propaganda and know that you are spouting disinformation to claim that “no company or organization” produces such material.

January 18, 2006 @ 12:52 am | Comment

Re-naming French fries “freedom fries” was idiotic and onbnoxious. It was not at all racist or eliminationist. It may have been “anti-French,” but it said nothing about crushing or destroying France. And if you haven’t noticed, it was totally ignored. Americans all call them French fries.

By the way, the congressman who made that propisition later said it was a terrible mistake on his part and he wishied he had never done it.

Oh, and we’re waiting for you to address Dylan’s point. All eyes are on you, CH.

January 18, 2006 @ 1:34 am | Comment

“but how many people died under the Japanese’s ruthless conquests compared to the CCP’s ruthless and incompetent rule?”

Calm down – no one justified the Japanese’ actions or that the Chinese don’t have the right to commemorate their atrocities.

The Japanese have their own agenda and pride and will want to sweep it under the carpet- we can’t except them to care for the Chinese. What’s the CCP’s excuse? If anyone talks about screwups or discontent you know what happens to them.

January 18, 2006 @ 3:41 am | Comment

Can you imagine what would happen if Britain had such posters attacking the Germans? Or Irish? Or those bloody Spaniards? Don’t get me started on the French…

Well, actually the British tabloids love to depict Germans as stupid, uncivilised hillibillies with Hitler-beards, who would all love to ride tanks instead of cars if they only weren’t so expansive.

Besides, what does “goning MEMRI” mean?

January 18, 2006 @ 4:35 am | Comment

Shulan,

I guess that says more on the British tabloids than it does on the general attitude of the British towards the Germans, or am I mistaken ?

January 18, 2006 @ 5:08 am | Comment

“Well, actually the British tabloids love to depict Germans as stupid, uncivilised hillibillies with Hitler-beards, who would all love to ride tanks instead of cars if they only weren’t so expansive.”

Crap. They absolutely do not. Sure, the tabloids employ mindless stereotyping but they’re poking fun at British attitudes as much as the perceived characteristics of others.

Further, this sort of journalism will not not be found in the ‘serious’ newspapers, which is more than can be said for China. Not that I’m comfortable with using the word serious to describe the Chinese media. ‘Dangerous’, perhaps.

On a related note, if a German politician denies the holocaust it might be newsworthy, but the British press don’t insight the people to attack Germans or destroy their homes and businesses.

I hope this clarifies things.

Stuart

January 18, 2006 @ 5:46 am | Comment

I don’t know what the British in general think about Germans and how much these tabloids represent the view of their readers. But it got so far as that the German ambassodor last year expressed his concers about such publications and the history education in English schools in a British newspaper (I think his point was that children lern a lot about WW II, but very little about post-war-Germany), when I remember correctly.

January 18, 2006 @ 5:48 am | Comment

steve, you moron, the current emperor is NOT Hirohito the man during the war. It’s his SON.

This is exactly the problem with Sino-Japanese relations. Time and time again I see people denouncing the current emperor because “he killed so many Chinese during the war”. Ignorant fools.

Those posters are a total disgrace.

January 18, 2006 @ 6:02 am | Comment

shulan

The ambassador is a chronic whinger. He normally complains that comedians make jokes about the war – he has no sense of humour. We have long been arguing that history lessons need to change, but he really is making a mountain out of a molehill. Generally we have no problems with the Germans.

January 18, 2006 @ 6:06 am | Comment

Nice to hear that. I have no objections about making jokes about the war, Germas or anything (“Don’t mention the war!”), but some articles in the magazin the Spiegel last year gave me the impression, that some tabloids like the Sun or the Mirror are obsessed with the war and their jokes aren’t realy funny, I think.

January 18, 2006 @ 6:39 am | Comment

Well tabloids are tabloids are tabloids. They talk about the war/Germany sometimes but hardly every week.

January 18, 2006 @ 7:22 am | Comment

I was in Taiwan last spring when the anti-Japanese demonstrations (riots) were going on in the mainland. We all know full well that no such demonstrations could have taken place without, at the very least, the tacit support of the CCP. This raises an interesting question; to what degree is anti-Japanese sentiment genuinely felt at a grass-roots level and to what degree are the flames of hatred cynically fanned by the CCP in order to distract the populace from real domestic issues. Any comments?

January 18, 2006 @ 11:30 am | Comment

The moronic comments here dont’ seem that bad when you’ve just looked at some posts in Al Jazeera.

January 18, 2006 @ 11:30 am | Comment

Liu, I completely agree with you. But keep in mind, those raised in mainland China really don’t have any idea whether or not the hatred is fanned by the CCP or it’s their personal sentiment based on history and personal reflection.

All they know is they can’t gather in public for any purpose – but for the anti-Japanese effort, they can, so they do it. It’s not different than asking a kid whether or not he believes something because he reasoned it, or beacuse his parents told him.

As someone pointed out recently, the idea is that truth is only popular sentiment on a particular topic.

January 18, 2006 @ 11:39 am | Comment

Last week I finished up my class of 10-12 year olds. As a last assignment I asked them to do a public speech on “If you were Chinas leader what would I do” ALL of them (18, boys and girls)FIRST stated that they would kill all the Japanese. Some would rape them first others nuke them and some starve them to death. The Chinese English teacher just laughed and laughed. Watch out world!

January 18, 2006 @ 9:42 pm | Comment

christ that’s depressing.

ironic that the country responsible for Chan buddhism would develop into this.

January 19, 2006 @ 1:51 am | Comment

It’s always easier to focus on others who’ve hurt you than it is to fucus on your own shortcomings. The Japanese may be obtuse, chauvinistic and at times grossly insensitive but I don’t think that that appraches the kind of cold, calculated malice with which Japan is villified in China. A kind of hatred that’s taught in schools and hammered in to every mind without opposition.

Japan is villfied primarily because it is politically useful for the CCP to do so although the Japanese often play right into their hands. The CCP’s goals are twofold. First, they are seeking to shore up their hold on China by stoking base nationalism and racism. Second, they have successfully built a culture of victimhood here. A nation that percieves itself as a victim, feels that accepted notions of morality, law and behavior do not apply to it. Any action taken from obnoxious to vile is covered by the “but we’re the victim” plea. I know the same can be said of Bush but that’s for another thread. One villain at a time please.

The Ironbuddha

January 19, 2006 @ 2:50 am | Comment

Tim, that’s some sick shit man.

January 19, 2006 @ 2:56 am | Comment

Ironbuddah, very perceptive. I see a lot of parallels between the two administrations in terms of exploiting their alleged “victimhood” to justify just about anything.

January 19, 2006 @ 3:04 am | Comment

If you had been through the kind of graphic details of selected Japanese brutalities in China as brain wash education by the government, then this totally make sense. Teachers plant hatred and distrust into these kids with annecdotal but malice-filled stories, in which Japanese soldiers rape and torture innocent Chinese people before killing them and their crying infants sitting next.
It’s not too different from some in the U.S. who attempt to illicite hate and xenophobia after 911. It can be subtle sometimes , but the deviousness is beyond measurable.
Human nature can be so fragile, sadly.

January 19, 2006 @ 5:58 am | Comment

HX, i am a chinese. i hate Koizumi. but, i have to say your points are too vulnerabal to doubts raised by Laowais. i can not see your words a product a logical thinking, instead, a bosh with irritated impulse.

January 19, 2006 @ 6:59 am | Comment

Call me insensitive, but I have a sudden hankering to buy the rest of that Manga that Ko Bunyu wrote.

January 19, 2006 @ 7:19 am | Comment

Liu and ed, as one of those raised in the mainland, i felt blindfolded on a lot i want to know, and out of reach of the truth.
No matter who is taking the helm of the anti-jep complex. No matter whether the mobs were manipulated, i just can not stay cooool to see KOIZUMI’s provoction with the aggression in WWII as an antenna to test anything he’s coveting. I like Japenese cartoons, which tided me over in my agitating teenage, and of course many other things of that country.
so, do not you think some of the mainland raised like me in the (riots) were abusing the chance created by the CCP, hard to tell who is wiser? oh la la, i have a brain.

January 19, 2006 @ 7:36 am | Comment

Woodentown,
I certainly understand frustration at Koizumi’s pandering to the nationalist right in Japan but also feel that the “demonstrations,” included a good deal of gratuitous hate-mongering and violence. What, for example, is accomplished by smashing the windows of a Chinese-owned Japanese restaurant or a Chinese-owned shop that sells, among other things, Toshiba and Sony products (as happened in Chengdu)?
The recent spike in Japan bashing is, pretty clearly, a smokescreen for domestic issues. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that this makes the Chinese public who go along with it either paritcularly gullible or without a reason for anti-Japanese sentiment in the first place. The same sort of “smoke-screen politics” is employed to great effect by the right-wing in America where there is a supposedly free press, a fact which gives the citizenry less excuse to fall for it.

January 19, 2006 @ 8:55 am | Comment

Woodentown, I can’t really parse your last sentence.

Although I’m sure there are those in the mainland that do think for themselves with the best information available to them, I was commenting on the vast majority which don’t. Even in the US you have a large population that is pretty oblivious to international dynamics and economic policy. But 1) they are fewer than their counterparts in China, and 2) they’re not thinking we should be committing genocide, mass rape and decimation of an entire country.

I agree with Liu regarding misdirection. I would put the mainland’s relationship with Taiwan in the same category.

January 19, 2006 @ 12:29 pm | Comment

Regarding the anti-Japanese sentiment among Chinese, an interesting observation: my cousin in China occasionally likes to spout off Japanese phrases to me, due to excessive exposure to anime and the like. She’s also ostensibly anti-Japan. Contradiction here? I certainly think so.

And so, of course, I asked her why she keeps talking to me in Japanese if she hates Japan so much. And she told me that she just hated Japanese pple. This despite never having met anyone Japanese. I love her, but that sentence just struck me as exceedingly dumb.

While I don’t dispute that Japan did some pretty reprehensible things in the past, I also think it’s silly to hold grudges against an entire race of pple for something the Japanese military chose to do back in the 30/40s. But I also think it’s stupid for Koizumi to be visiting that shrine. It’s just unnecessarily inflammatory.

January 19, 2006 @ 4:20 pm | Comment

I would like to say: show me the countries that, at one time or another, have NOT committed atrocities on other people. All former colonial powers (my country, although very small, included) have done it to their colonies, the superpowers have done it, China definitely is no exception with the Tibet case being foremost, and Japan is among the frontrunners on the level of atrocity they have committed in the past. So I think the larger chunk of worldcountries should feel quite among peers when it comes to comparing atrocities. I am really getting fed up with this Japan bashing of China and my hunch is that Koizumi, at this point, by visiting the shrine is now mostly making the statement he will not be dictated by China and I wouldn’t be surprised that China is so ferocious on him for fear that other Asian states might start to follow his example. Should Koizumi stop visiting the shrine from a moral perspective ? The more I hear and read about it, I start to think “yes he should”, but how about China starting to accept apologies and dropping the victim role as an excuse (very good comment by Ironbuddha above) ? With their aspiritions, it is starting to get pathetic.

January 20, 2006 @ 5:25 am | Comment

Lao Lu, I can only say one word: Precisely.

January 20, 2006 @ 9:27 pm | Comment

These graphics may not be mainstream products of ad agencies, but for a while there was an commercial on the Shanghai subway with a distinct anti-Japanese flavor that clearly *was* the work of an ad agency.

The ad was set in a hotel. The hotel manager – a be-spectacled, white, middle-aged, western man – hires a guy to paint the walls. The guy is a dim-witted sumo wrestler. He picks up a paint roller and starts madly rolling away. The white western manager is not pleased with the results, so he calls in a Chinese team.

The Chinese team arrives, looking very modern and professional in crisp uniforms. Using modern spray-painting equipment, they quickly complete the job.

In the next shot, the white manager is seen using a magnifying lens to examine the results, and nods approvingly.

In the final shot, the half-wit sumo wrestler re-appears. He picks up the spray-painting equipment, examining it as if he has never before seen such strange technology. He squeezes the trigger and … blasts paint all over his face.

The ad was funny and well-produced, but I also felt it was racist in a not-so-subtle way. It appeared on the subway for quite some time (maybe also on tv, dunno, don’t watch it).

Ironically, this ad appeared not long after many Chinese were apparently offended by the ad from a Japanese *paint* company.

January 20, 2006 @ 10:07 pm | Comment

Not subtle at all. They’ve got some growing up to do when it comes to this issue.

January 20, 2006 @ 10:21 pm | Comment

If german prime minister shows up anually at a memorial site to show all the dead solders including HITLER, what will people in Europ think.
The above is happening in Japan while Japenese prime minister keep visiting a shrine which hosts the top war criminal who initiated the war killing millions of people , 20 millions in China.
CBC passionate eye had a program intrudcing a Ottawa senior Canadian, John Fraken, who was captured by Japanese in Aisa during the war and abused in labor camp. He is still protesting Japan’s attitude to his war crime and asking a formal apologize.
John wrote me an E-mail 2 years ago saying , 58 years passed nothing has changed.

January 21, 2006 @ 12:41 am | Comment

That’s just an individual action, just like Japanese leaders worship the war criminals. It’s not published on any chinese public media and it’s impossible to publish such things!
You can find such kind of mindless persons in any country in this world.

January 21, 2006 @ 12:46 am | Comment

Thanks, Jsun. Some people will seize at anything to use as an excuse to keep the hatred of Japan alive and furious. The shrine is an easy excuse. As if all the hatred would be diffused the day Koizumi stops visiting the shrine.

Oh, and I do wish Koizumi would stop visiting the shrine. I think it’s a disgrace. But to hate the Japanese people with such vehemence, generations after the crimes…. It’s inane.

January 21, 2006 @ 6:06 am | Comment

Richard:

I always believed that relations between China and Japan should not be held hostage to events that happened 60 years ago. Hatred only generates more hatred.

However, the Yasukuni shrine issue cannot be dismissed as a trivial matter or an action by only an individual. Look at how the whole Western world was outraged when Iranian President Ahmedinejad made comments about “death to Israel” and “moving Israel to somewhere between Germany and Austria”. It certainly did not reflect the opinion of the whole Iranian race and nation, but nevertheless, the whole Western world was outraged. Yasukuni is in the same fashion to China. Even if todat the CCP is not in power, no credible Chinese leaders or government would deal with Japanese leaders who pay annual visits to Yasukuni, none of them could afford that. The Chinese people would spit on leaders who deal with Japanese leaders who visits Yasukuni.

Note that South Korea was also angered by the Yasukuni visits, its a democratic country but nevertheless hates Japan’s policy towards Yasukuni and history in general. Doesn’t that tell you that Yasukuni is more than CCP propaganda? The CCP just seized upon an opportunity given to them so handsomely by the foolish act of Koizumi.

January 21, 2006 @ 8:29 am | Comment

Couldn’t have said it better myself, sp.

I agree that those posters are in poor taste and do not really do anything in China’s interest but further add fuel to the tension. But there’s no proof that these posters are somehow widely embraced by the Chinese society other than some extreme Anti-Japanese netizens online.

But to the issue of Yasukini. You think that it’s purely the CCP who is “making a big fuss over nothing” on this issue for political reasons. Yes I agree that they are making a big fuss, because they can’t afford not too. You know why? Two years ago, a foreign minister of China was mailed a anonymous package, inside of which was a bottle of calcium and a letter. The letter asked the Foreign Minister to take some of that calcium so that he would have “more backbone” next time and be tougher to the Japanese. The source of the letter was never revealed, but this event was posted online, and it caused a huge public response. People widely agreed to giving the minister more calcium, and that later led to a general discontent amongst with the CCP being too “soft” on many issues regarding Japan…

The CCP cannot afford not to take a tough stance on Japan, just like European Nations cannot afford not to take a tough stance on the Iranian President’s speech about “wiping Israel off the map”. Just like German politicians cannot afford not ban all Nazi speech in the country.

I posed this question before and I’ll pose it again: imagine today German Chancellor Angela Merkel went to a suburb in Berlin with half of her Cabinet and half of the German Parliament and paid a visit to a memorial whose list of honored heroes include Hitler and his generals, and whose website calls the Nuremberg trials “a farce”. When asked, she says, “I’m just honoring all war dead for the sake of peace, anyone who makes a big fuss about this is just playing politics”. And later, many of her cabinet members and members of the German parliament also echoed similar sentiments, insisting that those visits are justified and they’ll make more of them in the future. And then in the next 3 months, she and her cabinet members made 5 visists to that memorial….. How do you think the entire EU would react, or the US? How about Israel, what would the Israeli spokesperson respond when asked to comment on it? I mean come on….

I hope you see the double standard here. I just hoping I can get some genuine respect for our feelings, not to be dismissed like we are somehow below your level of intelligence. I mean how would you react when I come up to a Jew and say “Oh you guys always talk about the Holocaust, they alread apologized! Move on! Don’t be so narrow-minded, I’m tired of hearing you talk about your suffering of the Holocaust all the time.”

In fact, I dare someone to post that exact sentence to a mainstream American blog (left or right) and wait for others comments ๐Ÿ™‚

January 21, 2006 @ 10:44 am | Comment

“‘Oh you guys always talk about the Holocaust, they alread apologized! Move on! Don’t be so narrow-minded, I’m tired of hearing you talk about your suffering of the Holocaust all the time.'”

Right on. I have wanted to say this for a long time but refrain from doing so to avoid being banned.

January 21, 2006 @ 10:48 am | Comment

humm, evidently, this is a male lion..

January 21, 2006 @ 11:08 am | Comment

You can’t understand chinese, because our culture is verydifferent. You cann’t understand why we hate japan, because you don’t completely know about the hitory between China and japan. Chinese is kind to guests and foreigers. japan invaded China and millions of chinese were killed. But after surrender of japan, China did not asked for compensation. How kindlly we are? A how did japan think and do? japan did not say “sorry” to China. It is only one example, I don’t want to say more, because when i thind these, I am very angry. japanese is a very bad folk, may be you forgetted why America attacked japan in the second world’s war, ask me, I can tell you. Peoples of China know the history between China and japan clearlly. A you? I think, if one does not well know about the history, he has no right to talk about it. Or it is only a joke. Of cause if you are not a kind man, i want to say nothing to you. There is no withiness. I am not good at english, so I can not express well. If one day, China is not kind any more, it must because other countries compel China. When we show our force, japan, don’t cry please.

January 21, 2006 @ 2:43 pm | Comment

Fuck u fucking fag shit, get the fuck out of China and go back to ur own country.

January 21, 2006 @ 3:10 pm | Comment

Chinese Right Wing National Socialist.

January 21, 2006 @ 3:12 pm | Comment

Barbarians only know how to gnar, because he ignorant. But it is unusefully, almost everyone knows that, China is being stranger and stranger. I am not in China and I am not Socialist, and it is not important for chinese to hate japan. Japan is an insidious and evil buffoon. buffoon is buffon, parochialism make it already have no chance to be a great country.

January 21, 2006 @ 5:25 pm | Comment

Imagine if you are a jewish, your parents or your grandparents was killed in a blutal massacre by the German Nazi. And Imagine if the German now changing their history book telling their next generation that the Nazi were saving the world, the nazi were the heros , and they did nothing wrong in the world war II. Plus Imagine the German put a memorial right in their city center to honor the dead Nazis General and Hitler. What would you as a Jewish will do ?? You would not send your Jewish army to attack the German as that will show that you are uncivilized, but you can use the buying power of the Jewish to force the German factory to shut down their business and force them bow their head and say SORRY !!. This is what the chinese is trying to do, they only want the Japanese Government to say SORRY and not to honor those world war II Japanese general that massacred millions of asian civilians. I maynot express very well why the Chinese are not so happy with the Japanese, but as to all you westerner, before you make any harsh comments on the chinese people, please try to understand the history between the Chinese and Japanese especially during the WWII. It is not only the Chinese is trying to force the Japanese to say sorry, but Korean too, is that mean what both Chinese and Korean are trying to do now are ridiculous and unreasonable??

January 21, 2006 @ 7:44 pm | Comment

Chinese, you expressed yourself very eloquently. Please write more…

January 21, 2006 @ 7:57 pm | Comment

You know, I am Jewish, and I did lose family members (like great-great-aunts and cousins) to the Nazis. And if the German government did follow your little scenario, I’d be furious. But I would never, ever attack German businesses or people driving German cars, and I would never dedicate myself to writing web sites and organizing events damning all the German citizens who are three entire generations away from the carnage. That would be insane, childish, and brainless. Only China does this, as part of their leaders’ strategy. We have discussed this many, many, many, many times here, and only a few rabid haters see an equivalency between the “crimes” of the current Japanese citizenzry and the level of hatred the CCP and fools like you try to stir up against them.

January 21, 2006 @ 8:30 pm | Comment

You can’t understand chinese, because our culture is verydifferent. You cann’t understand why we hate japan, because you don’t completely know about the hitory between China and japan.

That most popular argument against us foreigners: we don’t understand China. I have bad news for you: I understand it better than you do, at least in regard to the hatred of the Japanese. And I have huge sympathy for the Chinese. I remember my own grandparents’ hatred of the Germans, and I understand it. But hatred of the Nazis and anyone who would try to resurrect or defend their reputation is one thing. To dedicate your life to hating the entire Japanese people, more than half a century after the evils committed by their great-grandparents, borders on the depraved. I can understand bearing a grudge and even hating them. But again, to actively center your life around this loathing as so many do in China does nothing to tell the world China is a maturing superpower. The ironic thing is that China was more forgiving of Japan under Mao, as the modern-day CCP exploits and cultivates the tracist hatred to keep thje people’s minds off of their own government’s inefficiencies and failoures.

January 21, 2006 @ 8:46 pm | Comment

“‘Oh you guys always talk about the Holocaust, they alread apologized! Move on! Don’t be so narrow-minded, I’m tired of hearing you talk about your suffering of the Holocaust all the time.'”

Right on. I have wanted to say this for a long time but refrain from doing so to avoid being banned.

Steve, when do I ban people for expressing a point of view I don’t like? Put up or shut up. Hongxing’s and Math’s and china_hand’s and your comments have never been deleted, they’ve never been banned. You won’t get banned for saying what you feel. You will, however, be banned if you imply that I ban people for differing with my opinion. That’s lying, and I won’t tolerate it.

January 21, 2006 @ 8:55 pm | Comment

In regard to China Hand’s long and simplistic diatribe I’ll just say this: Most of us at this site have condemned the shrine visits. We wish they would stop, but also understand politically why they will not. We also believe that if the shrine visits were to stop, you would quickly find something else to ignite your blind, infantile rage against Japan. This has nothing to do with the shrine. The shrine has become an excuse, a justification for slipping back into primitive fury, which can feel very good and exciting, as it helps you forget about your own miseries. The CCP has cultivated this anger, playing it like a fine violin, like Hitler insisting Germany would be utopia once the Jews were eliminated – an irrational argument, but great for building up nationalistic zealousness and jingoism.

Repeat, if the shrine were levelled by bulldozers tomorrow and Koizumi condemned all past war criminals, your hatred of the Japanese would be as raw and festering as it is tody. Because it’s not your own hatred. It’s your government’s hatred, implanted into your brain cells and into your blood stream, it’s a part of you that can never be excised. You will hate them forever, shrine or no shrine. You literally have no choice. So in a way my heart goes out to the haters. But I wish they could see how they look in the eyes of the world, especially at a time when China longs so deeply for international acceptance and a place among the greatest nations. This is one of those phenomena that tell the world China still has a long way to go. Thank your government for that.

January 21, 2006 @ 9:04 pm | Comment

SP, I agree that the world’s outrage over anything anti-Israel is out of balance; Israel should be as open for criticism as any other country. This is a political phenemenon in the US, where any criticism of Israel is instantly painted as “anti-Semitism.” And I know the South Koreans also hate the shrine. I hate the shrine, too.

If it were closed, would those gaping wounds heal? Only over time, which reallyt does heal all wounds. But the way it is now, the government intentionally keeps the wounds fresh and alive for its own purposes.

January 21, 2006 @ 9:12 pm | Comment

Why Chinese hate Japanese:
I am a chinese, and I also can speak little japanese. Actually I have some friends from Japan.

I remember once I read a story about how Japanese tortured a chinese woman during WWII, until something like they put 20 iron sticks into each of her breast, i couldn’t continue. I cried. Then I went to icq, search and find 10 japanese guys. and send them a message like this “Hi, 1st, I am chinese; 2nd, i hate japanese; you owe us blood and one day, you will pay….” 6 people ignored my without saying anything, 1 said “can we look to future together?” 1 said “I didn’t do it…”, 1 said “fuck off” and 1 said “i don’t really know about that history, would you like to tell me more?”

As you can see some of them were polite, to which I didn’t really expect. I am friendly to japanese people, however, since i read that story, I don’t buy japanese products, my car is not japanese. Korean don’t buy japanese prodcuts either, as you might know, japanese people always buy their own products first then consider other country’s. Maybe this is just an Asian way.

here is what i think why some chinese still hate japanese:
1, Japanese learned from China, then they invaded china, not just once in history.
2, China had war event with american too, but i am sure, if nanjing was taken by USA, american army won’t rape ALL women, burned men, eat unborned baby from pregnant women.
3, Japan still hasn’t apologized, German alreayd done many times. Not even German, if i am right, nearly all countries that allied with Germany during that time apologized. Japan not yet, and never tried.
4, Compared with Russian who took nearly half of China’s territory in 19th century, compared with american who fought with chinese in korea, Japan really didn’t damage china like that; japan didn’t really conquer china at all as they stop their progress in middle china and couldn’t go any further in WWII. However, what they did are slaughters, rapes, chemical human experiments, etc. until today, in Nanjing, if you want build a building and you dig the ground, from time to time you still can find skulls with bullet holes, or skulls seperate from bodies. And from japan official, they say “we didn’t do it.” If my father was dead in korea war, I would still use microsoft windows today, but even non of my family was raped or slaughtered by japanese, i will try not to use their products.

I always recommend western friends in china do not get involved with china-japan issue. Neither nor me can change this. the old issues haven’t been solved yet not the new issues arrived. Personally, as a chinese, i am really not optimistic about two country’s future. It seems both countries are not playing western game rules. If china is playing western rules, there shouldn’t be anti-japanese industry things at all, but if japan is playing western game rules, they would have already said sorry many years ago.

There are a lot of topics in western countries regarding to muslim and western worlds, i know some of you guys support american army in iraqi, or some of you guys not, I never get involved, coz it is a long story too and nothing to do with chinese.

January 21, 2006 @ 9:51 pm | Comment

Xin, we all know why the Chinese hate the Japanese, and sympathize with their feelings. Time to move on, however. Should it just keep on festering forever? The Japanese have apologized. They want to move on. Oh, but the shrine — of coirse, it’s all about the shrine!! The shrine has nothing to do with it. It’s just a rallying point,

January 21, 2006 @ 10:17 pm | Comment

Rola:

I cannot agree with you, all the more because of your tone… You sounded like the Manchu emperors who still thought that they are the rulers of the “Celestial Empire” and the rest of the world are barbarians.
Think twice, barbarians does not have the abilities to make you signed the Treaties of Nanking and Shimonoseki.

If you think they are just barbarians, you are too naive and foolish. China need to embrace the world and stop being so Sino-centric. You act like a modern person but think like the feudal rulers of Old China.

January 21, 2006 @ 10:42 pm | Comment

richard:

Agreed. The shrine issue should be allowed to fade away gradually.. It may not end the enmity, but nevetheless removes one of the sore point in Sino-Japanese relations. One less hotspot is always better than one more.

I sincerely believe that if Japan follows the example set by then PM Tomiichi Murayama with his unprecedented apology in 1995, things would have been better for ties between the two sides. Koizumi squandered it with his repeated visits to the shrine for political capital. Its really sad that politicians hijacked things that happened 60 years ago, both Chinese and Japanese. Can both sides have another Willy Brandt and Tomiichi Murayama?

January 21, 2006 @ 10:50 pm | Comment

Interesting. Much peoples of the west world think that they can understand chiese and can know much about china. But they only can persuade themselves. For example, they did not believe that China will help North Korean in 1950, because they thinked it is clearly that China cann’t beat them, but China did and winned. I am a chinese and a lawyer, my borther had been in japan 5 years. I think there is impossible for you to understand chinese history and culture better than me. Being a chinese I can tell you that you think you know much about China and understand our history and culture because you think you are wise. And I am sorry to tell you, you made a mistake. Being a foreigner you don’t understand these, but you think you do, so you made a website and say that it is fool on it. I think there must be something wrong with you. Chinese like to say something on internet, you don’t understand again. hehe. We worry about the future of China, we think it is everyone’s responsibility, we encourage each other and controvert to find ways to make our country better and stronger. And we awake each other to agard against our enemy. Now, China is still not very strong, so we have to forbear, we can not lose the chance of dependence. And do you know what japanese like to do by internet? I tell you, that is eroticism. janpenese prostitutes and failms of eroticism are famous all over the world. I think it is better to talk about politics than masturbation. And work did not be delayed by them, China is developing with high speed, although some countries don’t like that. Premier of German kneelled down to say sorry to Jew, and arrested suppressed Nazis. japan only said sorry to China once many years ago, and after that refused much times. And now they refuse to admit the Holocaust. Different experiences, so you have no right to criticize. No matter who are and what is your motive, if you are a man against China, you will be bitter and bitter, because China is become better and better. What you did can not stop that. No one no country can stop that.

January 21, 2006 @ 11:45 pm | Comment

Richard,

I understand moving on is good. However, I don’t agree that shrine is merely a rallying point. A japanese “Hitler” is there, and other criminalswho played “people killing game” are there too. I don’t think German people will go any rallying point where Adolf Hilter’s portrait worshipped.

As what you said “moving on”, are you american? don’t know how much you know about korea war. It’s not just between korea, it is a war between china and usa. To my knowledge, that war was even more crucial than many battles in WWII. However, i believe china and usa now, both government and people, pretty much MOVE ON. china and south korea, “moved on”.

January 21, 2006 @ 11:52 pm | Comment

carnality,jingoism,barbarity,ultranationalism. that japan. They are barbarians with civilized frock. History is a mirror, made me know what is japan, if chinese gorget its history, he has been eated some times. 911 is a history, but what is america doing? And in your idea, Jew need not refound a country. you know what is “trope”? I said they are barbarians, because they are carnality,jingoism,barbarity,ultranationalism. I did not say they are the ancients.

January 22, 2006 @ 12:20 am | Comment

Ed wrote:
I don’t know the details, but how many people died under the Japanese’s ruthless conquests compared to the CCP’s ruthless and incompetent rule? Someone informed please quote the numbers.

Can Bin Laiden say, “i didn’t kill many in 911, not as many as american people died in civil war”?

Japanese didn’t kill that many, 300000 in Nanjing slaughter, and 30000000 during Japanese invasion which include all people, soldiers, civilians, etc. If same thing happens on other nations, I really doubt they still exist after a 30000000 population reduction. But it doens’t hurt china’s survival. God really bless china, a lot I mean.

January 22, 2006 @ 4:59 am | Comment

carnality,jingoism,barbarity,ultranationalism. that japan. They are barbarians with civilized frock….And in your idea, Jew need not refound a country. you know what is “trope”? I said they are barbarians, because they are carnality, jingoism, barbarity, ultranationalism. I did not say they are the ancients.

A unique look into deranged, uncontrolled aggressive, pre-programmed hatred. Thank God there’s no jingoism in China.

January 22, 2006 @ 7:43 am | Comment

It is a fact that japan made a great mistake and now don’t think that they were wrong. Continue to hurt the feeling of Chinese. Even such knid chinese peoples can not bear. You rebuke the side whith is being hurted and resulted. So you are very vile. Do you know during 2 war, Jew was allowed to come into China without visa? Do you know how kindly chinese army did to captives?(Indian, japanese, Vietnamese, Korean, American. although they were brutal to chinese captives) Do you know after war China did not ask for compensation? That China, kind and loves peace. Who is making China be angry? Everyong knows. You are really so babyish. And you know nothing about Chinese stratagem. In history, japan attacked China much times from the Ming Dynasty, let us relax? America did not find the real face of japanese from the Pearl Harbor and made a romantic film, Very Good.

January 22, 2006 @ 7:51 am | Comment

Roila, you may be a lawyer, but I’m going to venture the bold but carefully considered conjecture that you’re an idiot, and if you personally insult me again you’re banned. You’ve been warned. State whatever opinion you’d like, but don’t insult the host. Rule No. 1.

Meanwhile, you wrote:japan only said sorry to China once many years ago, and after that refused much times.

Is this indicative of your scholarliness? Maybe you were at an anti-Japan rally when this story broke, less than 9 months ago

Apr 22, 2005 โ€” Japan’s prime minister apologized Friday for his country’s World War II aggression in Asia in a bid to defuse tensions with regional rival China, but a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman said the apology needed to be backed up with action after Japanese lawmakers made a controversial visit to a war shrine.

They can apologize forever, but you’ll say the apology isn’t sincere enough. And they can even stop going to the shrine. And your incadescent rage will burn on and on, because it’s your life.

Don’t call me “a man against China.” The CCP is not China. Blind eternal hatred against Japan is not China. The Cultural Revolution is not China. Just like Bush’s policies in Iraq are not America. These are aberrations, sicknesses that hurt China, that keep it from enjoying the greatness it deserves. Bush’s policies have pushed America backwards, and some CCP policies do the same to China.

January 22, 2006 @ 7:57 am | Comment

Just saw Rola’s latest. Umm, Rola, did anyone mention to you the war ended 60 years ago? Of course the Japanese were terrible – so terrible that my country dropped nuclear bombs on them twice, for better or for worse, and saved your country’s ass along the way. So quit your lectures and grow up. If you had control of your emotions, you could make your case against Japan rationally and effectively, instead of screeching CCP talking points at us that we’ve heard 1,000 times. We feel your pain, we know your feelings were hurt, we know innocents were slaughtered more than a half-century ago. But swimming in your misery and always crying victim is not the solution. In a sense, it means the Japanese won. Just like Osama Bin Laden has “won” over those who are so twisted and contorted in their rage against him that they throw away their critical faculties, become obsessed and only further Osama’s cause by breeding more hatred as Muslim-bashers. Japan can point to you as proof China is still an infant child, crying like a baby whose rattle was taken away. Now, that might not be fair, but by reacting immaturely and without thought, you make such accusations possible. And believe me, that is still part of the worldwide image of China, fair or not.

January 22, 2006 @ 8:11 am | Comment

Right on, Richard! I remember reading an editorial in the Liberty Times (from Taipei) last spring in the midst of the “demonstrations.” The author pointed out that an apology is a two-way street. If the person (or regime) being apologized to is intent on holding a grudge then the apology is useless.
Now in pointing this out I am opening myself up to attack from those intent on hating Japan no matter what, so I will qualify my comments. First of all, I am aware that there are elements in Japan that refuse to face up to wrongdoing. That is unacceptable. And yes, I know about the shrine. That too is unfortunate. But what is the solution? For China to start a war with Japan? As the saying goes, an eye for an eye just leaves everyone blind. And Rola, please stop with that “you must be Chinese to understand Chinese history” nonsense. Do you have to be a quark to understand physics? I think that is just a convenient way for you to not have to deal with ideas that you are uncomfortable with.

January 22, 2006 @ 8:29 am | Comment

Many chineses dont like CCP, but they also hate japan. And CCP did not be tied by , Some of What they are doing, in fact is against Marxism. Who can accept apology when one is continue to hurt him. Maybe you think CCP is autarchy, you know in Russian, now there is a goverment of autarchy, but that is the choice of russian people. They love their president. Why? Because Russia is facing dangerous, they need a powerful goverment. In China, we also. I am in Ukraine. Their voting was influenced by USA and Russia. Now most of my friends of Ukraine think their voting is a mistake, because the goverment is abeted by USA, against Rusia. It is only a chessman to against Russia. Lives of people is not better, and their country is not jarless. If China have some parties to compete, of cause, money and influence will come to affect the politics of China. If that, we will never reunify Taiwan, Sitsang and Sinkiang will easy to apart from China. Now in China, our president is being supported. Because he let us see the hope that we will not be injuried again. I had tell you that my brother lived in japan 5 years. He told me that they are hostile to China, and discriminate China. Many of them think that they should invade China again. Goverment did not ask for compensation, but japan also refuse to compensate for peoples whith were hurted in the war, we need real penitence, not cheatings. After 1945, goverment gived up compensation, wanted to eliminate animosity Some years after 1972, we are so kind to to japan, we forgived them. But after than, they ofter hurted our feelings. A folk does not know repentance! Even these years, in fact China is also kind to japan, one of japanese disappeared in China, goverment sent eggbeater to search and save. But a chinese student died on street of japan, his body bleted, japanese do nothing! 18/09/2003, it is 72 anniversary japan attacked China. In China, in the city of Zhuhai, hundreds of japanese together asked many prostitute to wenche to celebrate. You know these? Our goverment always tell us to calm down, and we also know we have to forbear. Because we have some strong enemies, we have to develop. Enemies want to exasperate China, want to make China be not sane to make mistake. We will not swallow the bait. That is stratagem. Between China and America, China and England, etc. also have been war. But we are still kind to them, because these folks not ultranationalism. I know i can not reason you, it is no matter, we chinese know what we are doing. You can continue to not understand. You can continue to think it is fool. I don’t believe Marxian, I am sure Mao and most of our leaders don’t that. It is only a excause to make a powerfu goverment. What army of CCP did for peoples in the flood, you know? thounds of them sacrificed in order to protect peoples. No one can say CCP is not belong to peoples. If i was banned, i will lose nothing. But you will lose a man who tell you the truth.

January 22, 2006 @ 10:01 am | Comment

“If China have some parties to compete, of cause, money and influence will come to affect the politics of China.”
And money, influence, guanxi, these things do not play a role in government now? At least under a multi-party system politicians could call each other out on corruption. Like they do in Taiwan. There, I said it.

January 22, 2006 @ 10:09 am | Comment

America attacked japan because of Pearl Harbor, that time America made a mistake like you now don’t understand japanese clearly. That time nobody believed that japan could attack America. But they did. America helped a good many of country, so you have army all over the world. And the army is very kind, they often help girls of these areas to know what is rape. Nuclear bombs helped america plaied a better role than Russian. Because Russian entered Berlin earlier than America.

January 22, 2006 @ 10:34 am | Comment

Oh my head! I gotta stop reading these Japan threads while I’m sober.
The Chinese Nationalist chatter makes me feel like two paranoid-schizophrenic parrots are sitting on my shoulders and shouting into my ears, the same nonsensical maniacal phrases over and over….

January 22, 2006 @ 10:42 am | Comment

Liu Yixi,
If China have some parties to compete, of cause, money and influence will come to affect the politics of China. I mean money and influence from other countries. Please look at the example of Ukraine. One want to carry an election, need money. Don’t think America will not pay something to help one who can care American behoof to win. They can do that in Ukraine, of cause they can do that in China. There are some problems in China because of only one powerful party. But to Chinese, the most importance is safe and unification. CCP now is appropriate to China.

January 22, 2006 @ 10:49 am | Comment

All I said with reasons and trues. Empty thinking is unuseful. Some peoples here are impatient, try to think, if one wan’t to listen others narration, how can he analyse and to know the truth clearly.

January 22, 2006 @ 11:05 am | Comment

Rola,
Let me see if I follow your point. If everyone in China were to magically wake up tomorrow to free and open elections it would be a bad thing because the U.S. would somehow buy off all parties in order to shift Chinese policy to America’s advantage. On the other hand, a bloated oligarchy that is not obliged to answer to anyone but itself and is able to brutally put down dissent is a good thing because it ensures stability. Is that more or less your argument? If so, I politely disagree. Look at the left-ward movement that is happening in South America (Bolivia and Venezuela in particular). Why hasn’t the U.S. thrown some money at the electorate to make Hugo Chavez go away if manipulating the electorate is as simple as having a fat bank account?
Still, I’ll give you credit for your earlier remark that current CCP policy has precious little to do with Marxist/Socialist ideology. Just ask the poor folks in Guandong about the peasant life in modern China.

January 22, 2006 @ 11:49 am | Comment

Rola,

We should all thank you, I guess, because you have taught us, ignorant westerners, a good lesson, in casu why Chinese legislation is still in such a pityful state. With people like you around in law circles, we should be amazed that Cinese rule of law already got to the point it is today. Btw, how do you feel about your brother, who actually went to live with the enemy ? Is he a traitor now ?

January 22, 2006 @ 11:57 am | Comment

How America, England, etc. became rich country? I don’t know in english how to say it, i explain, hope you can understand. Rich men robbed ground, peasant lost theri ground and had to work in factories made by rich men. I think I explained maybe not very well. I only want to use my poor english to make you recall the history. Now these things happened in China. But Chinese payed less cost than English peasants and Injun. Of cause it is a bad thing. I always admit there is something wrong with CCP, but CCP is becoming better. And now we have no better choice. The two countries you said are not such tanglesome as China. We have a good many of folks and neighbors, some places want to apart againse from China. Taiwan still not be reunified. Many domain dissension. It is a big country, population is great. So it is easy to be destroied. The countries is not very important to America, they have no chance to challenge America. But Russian can, so America intervene Ukraine in order to pin Russia. China of cause will be able to challenge America, If you think they will not do like what I said, you are too naive. I have looked some pages of the website. I think some peoples here are guly, some are so naive. I talked about the website with some friends. They told me not to waste time. OK, I will leave here before I was be banned. You can continue to talk about China. But dont forget, when you are making fun of China, you are being made fun of by China.

January 22, 2006 @ 12:40 pm | Comment

โ€œRepeat, if the shrine were levelled by bulldozers tomorrow and Koizumi condemned all past war criminals, your hatred of the Japanese would be as raw and festering as it is today.โ€

Wow! How do you know? Remember, the strong anti-Japanese sentiment was not there ten years ago. It only took off after the rightward shift of Japanese politics, the repeated visits of the Shrine and the revision of history textbooks.

It is not even-handed when some people express fury on the denial of the Holocaust, but keep mute on the denial of the NanKing Massacre. It is hypocritical for someone to condemn the inability of Chinese to โ€˜move onโ€™ but to ignore that the other side is โ€˜moving backโ€™.

By the way, the racist views expressed in those ads are disgusting and I am ashamed of it.

January 22, 2006 @ 12:49 pm | Comment

The last words, because i saw what Lao Liu said. You don’t know? If you know enemy well you can’t win it? God, you asked a childish question. I am a lawyer, I know well about chinese law. It is also being better and better. The first law of America was written 200 years ago, a chinese law? Good luck, boys.

January 22, 2006 @ 12:50 pm | Comment

Lost one word. It should be:
The last words, because i saw what Lao Liu said. You don’t know? If you don’t know enemy well you can’t win it? God, you asked a childish question. I am a lawyer, I know well about chinese law. It is also being better and better. The first law of America was written 200 years ago, a chinese law? Good luck, boys.

January 22, 2006 @ 12:54 pm | Comment

Talking about hate speech or racist prejudice, a popular cartoon book in Japan, โ€œIntroduction to Chinaโ€(
http://www.eastasiawtch.com/2005/11/19/popular-manga-denounce-korea-china/)
This kind of book will not pass the censorship of the CCP government, but is fully condoned by the democratic Japan. Ironic, isnโ€™t it?

January 22, 2006 @ 2:08 pm | Comment

Rola,

Honestly, I don’t understand which message it is you are trying to get conveyed, but I think I actually prefer not to know it either.

As for the rest of all our heated up Chinese friends: you are rightfully upset about the revision of the textbooks (used in less than 1 percent of Japanese schools, but OK …) and you have amply shown it. You have destroyed Japanese property, destroyed Japanese cars, threatened Japanese people, or Chinese that happened to run a Japanese-style restaurant for a matter of fact … so how do you think the Japanese will perceive you ? Grateful for all that nonsensical show of violence ? Be sure that the rightists will gain more field in the furture, you are just spoonfeeding it to them. And where is China’s high morals when any Japanese shows up to invest in China ? Have you ever refused to take their Yen’s on historical grounds ? No story that I know of, and rightfully so. Cooperation is the word that will earn you recognition worldwide, for it would show that you have learnt from the past and now are striding forward. All the rest of the pityful spectacles of Japan bashing by youngsters around China, will only prove to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. And then don’t come back saying “Wir haben es nicht gewusst (we didn’t know)”.

January 22, 2006 @ 3:16 pm | Comment

“As for the rest of all our heated up Chinese friends: you are rightfully upset about the revision of the textbooks (used in less than 1 percent of Japanese schools, but OK …) and you have amply shown it.”
Maybe if the dalu ren were as worried about the state-sanctioned content of their own history textbooks as they are about what Japanese kids are reading some real progress could be made. Maybe that is a little harsh, but you must admit that I have a point.

January 22, 2006 @ 3:57 pm | Comment

I really think sino-japan talk should be over.

You can’t do anything. Go and say “Japan already gave you a lot of money, so shut up”. Will they shut up? Unlikely in china, isn’t it?

And what Japan do? using 2 seconds to say “regret” then head to shrine for the rest of the day;
And I do read japanese, i read heaps of their insulting comment in their forum. I am not worrying abou this. If a western-chinese value talk can bring us mutual understanding, this sino-japan talk won’t give anything good.

You guys do have the point, but the point I got here is simple, old issue hasn’t been solved happily, bunch of new issues between China and Japan are coming.

Don’t know if you can try this: in a party in china where people are mainly chinese but they can understand english, you pretent to have a great passion and say “Japan, oh, fantastic, I like them!!” Then feel the silence and tense in the air.

Don’t bother this topic anymore. I gotta go to work, you guys go to buy some ducks. ๐Ÿ™‚

January 22, 2006 @ 4:37 pm | Comment

My colleagues in Taiwan are fine talking about Japan. It’s the CCP that gets them upset.

January 22, 2006 @ 4:48 pm | Comment

Before I close down this bloated thread, allow me to repeat the best comment of the day, from Lao Lu. Please read it carefully; he says all I’ve been trying to say, only more eloquently and clearly:
—————————————————————-

Rola,

Honestly, I don’t understand which message it is you are trying to get conveyed, but I think I actually prefer not to know it either.

As for the rest of all our heated up Chinese friends: you are rightfully upset about the revision of the textbooks (used in less than 1 percent of Japanese schools, but OK …) and you have amply shown it. You have destroyed Japanese property, destroyed Japanese cars, threatened Japanese people, or Chinese that happened to run a Japanese-style restaurant for a matter of fact … so how do you think the Japanese will perceive you ? Grateful for all that nonsensical show of violence ? Be sure that the rightists will gain more field in the furture, you are just spoonfeeding it to them. And where is China’s high morals when any Japanese shows up to invest in China ? Have you ever refused to take their Yen’s on historical grounds ? No story that I know of, and rightfully so. Cooperation is the word that will earn you recognition worldwide, for it would show that you have learnt from the past and now are striding forward. All the rest of the pityful spectacles of Japan bashing by oungsters around China, will only prove to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. And then don’t come back saying “Wir haben es nicht gewusst (we didn’t know)”.

January 22, 2006 @ 5:06 pm | Comment

Japanese “people” must be wiped off the face of this planet.

January 22, 2006 @ 5:16 pm | Comment

It is not even-handed when some people express fury on the denial of the Holocaust, but keep mute on the denial of the NanKing Massacre. It is hypocritical for someone to condemn the inability of Chinese to โ€˜move onโ€™ but to ignore that the other side is โ€˜moving backโ€™.

I’ve expressed lots of fury at the denial of the Nanjing Massacre. It’s the way you express the fury that matters. Primitive explosions of blind rage aren’t the answer. It doesn’t work. Read Lao Lu’s comment that I quoted right up above.

Someone just posted a comment directly above that reads, “Japanese “people” must be wiped off the face of this planet.”

And there you have it. Welcome to the age of a mature, restrained China. Thread closed.

January 22, 2006 @ 5:21 pm | Comment

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