Alas, a thread

A new one.

The Discussion: 52 Comments

Lisa, as you were editing that last obscene comment I was deleting it – sorry! And thanks for taking care of it so quickly.
(Sorry I zapped it, Kevin.)

December 11, 2005 @ 11:32 pm | Comment

To continue the discussion, i guess, here’s what i’ve heard about being a party member (and all the horrible evil that entails). the party targets the top students in each high school class, and at that time they go through the motions with everyone else and become members. (I’m not sure what kind of pressure is put on them, whether or not it will become publicly known if they want to turn this down or what). i don’t know about anyone else, but in high school i didn’t give a damn about politics, and should I have? Anyway, after you’re in you go to the meetings once in a while, fill out the forms, pay the dues, and in exchange you can check the little ‘party member’ box whenever you apply for something. Its my impression that its easier to keep up this charade, and perhaps reap the benefits that checking the little box might bring, than to initiate the process of leaving the party. Its not like church where if you stop believing you stop going. So if the person, after joining when theyre a kid and not knowing any better, finds out they hate everything the party stands for, in their eyes its not a huge contradiction to still remain a member. It would be like our society having the requirement that all church-goers, if they want to stop going to church to stand up in front of everybody and say ‘i don’t believe in god anymore. hell, I probably never did – see ya suckers’. Or show up for an hour each sunday, sing-along, and pretend to listen to the sermon. You have to be a really self-assured person to get up front and announce your beliefs.

December 11, 2005 @ 10:58 pm | Comment

Gosh, this shit-eater guy keeps following me to every site I go to today. According to his own accounts, he is so busy “getting laid,” haha, but it seems like he has plenty of time to spread his pathetic jealousy all over the net.

December 11, 2005 @ 11:29 pm | Comment

I have recently visited the site where the latest massascre by China has happened. The situation is a lot worse than what most news sources are reporting.

It has been confirmed by at least three separate eyewitness accounts that at least 200 people have been killed and that it is authorized directly from the Central Government. As of now, there’s a complete blackout of information in that village, and no one in China really knows about this. The villagers are still being surrounded by the police, and they were warned that if they dared to move around, they’ll be “fired on immediately”.

The Mainland media has made no mention of the incident, and it is rumored that Hu Jintao asked the local government to “clean up any remaining opposition, with whatever means necessary”.

This is now clearly another June 4th for China, and the death toll may exceed the one in 1989. Many Chinese experts in Western nations are already predicting the downfall of the Chinese government, and thousands of demonstrations have broken out in various cities in China. Experts in CNN are already predicting that these demonstrations will only continue.

One Chinese Communist insider has leaked information that top leaders in Beijing are preparing to increase military presence in the city, and use even more force if necessary. Most Chinese citizens are unaware of this incident.

December 11, 2005 @ 11:38 pm | Comment

Message for Kier:
Since nobody was killed in Hemel Hempsted, I suspect that the jokes will be flowing as thickly as the smoke. (Actually, they already are, did you see the guardian newsblog thread on the incident? Pity it wasn’t one of the intrinsically funny suburbs like Slough or Staines, but I’m sure they’re already laying into it.

December 11, 2005 @ 11:47 pm | Comment

I’d like some more evidence before I sign on to this version of events, dn.

December 11, 2005 @ 11:48 pm | Comment

Many Chinese experts in Western nations are already predicting the downfall of the Chinese government, and thousands of demonstrations have broken out in various cities in China. Experts in CNN are already predicting that these demonstrations will only continue.

What? What experts? What thousands of demonstrations? What CNN report? The last CNN article was about the police commander being detained.

The “url” for this guy, http://wasdaddasdsdadsdasd etc etc etc has, believe it or not, shown up before. Besides suggesting he’s left handed, I think its a sign this crude agent provacateur is somebody we already know.

December 12, 2005 @ 12:16 am | Comment

Dave, I’m left-handed, but I swear it’s not me!

December 12, 2005 @ 12:25 am | Comment

Dave, any specific ideas? It definitely bears the marks of a game-playing troll.

December 12, 2005 @ 12:32 am | Comment

um, hx?

December 12, 2005 @ 12:51 am | Comment

A likely candidate.

Kevin, I just saw that thread over at Talk talk China where the now-deleted commenter was making trouble. What a piece of work. It looks like that site, too, is deleting him as fast as he comments. (Sorry, this comment will be unintelligible to those of you who missed the obscene comment that was deleted from this thread a short time ago.)

December 12, 2005 @ 12:59 am | Comment

Said commenter has “issues.”

December 12, 2005 @ 1:11 am | Comment

Well yes I’m also glad no one was killed in Hemel Hempstead. So, one of my first thoughts is:

“This is what happens when you force smokers outside the pub.”

And I always thought Luton was inherently funnier than Slough, but that’s just me.

December 12, 2005 @ 2:13 am | Comment

I spent a week living rough in Luton, waiting for a flight to Athens where I could at least rough it in a warm climate…
Question: Why would hx INFLATE the number the CCP killed?

December 12, 2005 @ 3:05 am | Comment


HX is implying that foreign reports of Communist atrocities are exaggerated. You have to understand that HX takes it as a premise that the Communist Party is honest and “responsible”, therefore all critical foreign reports about the Communists are “irresponsible.”

Get it now?

December 12, 2005 @ 3:54 am | Comment

Living rough in Luton? Ow. Sounds horrible.

December 12, 2005 @ 6:45 am | Comment

And the funny thing is, the idea of “living it up” in Luton sounds even MORE horrible!

December 12, 2005 @ 7:00 am | Comment

I feel that this incident is being handled responsibly by the government. However it is not enough to just arrest the police chief, I believe the local mayor/villege chief should also be arrested.

Perhaps there’s indeed some violence by the villagers, if so, then only those who were violent should be targeted, not innocent villagers. Also, do not ever expect gathering villagers to have much rationality or “civility”. The responsibility clearly is in the hands of the local government. It did not have the sincerity to resolve the problem, no sincerity to communicate with the villagers, only barbarism and suppression.

Simply put, when the villagers used bombs and explosives to attack the police, the police could’ve still used rubber bullets to defend themselves! But they chose to use real bullets!

Of course we cannot eliminiate the possibility that there are some anti-China forces who instigating the villagers to start some “incident” and force the local gov’t to mishandle it, then they would have a weapon of attack against China. But even if that’s true, the local government should still not have used real bullets! By using real bullets, the local government lowered themselves to the same level as those anti-China forces. How stupid the local government is!

But if you think even more deeply, I believe there are people inside the Chinese gov’t who are openly resisting the framework of Hu’s “Harmonious Society”. In other words, there is a strong political force who is trying to create this incident and blame it on Hu-Wen. This is a more serious political fight inside the CCP.

I simply do not believe that, when the Central Governmet has been sending warnings to local levels again and again not to use real weapons against protesters, that a local village police chief would have the political courage to make the decision without some backing from strong forces.Where did they get the courage? I think they received instructions to go ahead with the shootings despite Hu-Wen’s warnings.

Now that this incident has reached this stage, it is important for Hu and Wen to declare a big war on corrupt government officials and hostile political forces. And more importantly, it is time to ignore those sensational reports from discredible sources like that from some people here on this blog.

Let’s all hope that China can overcome this incident, and China will be strong! China, we support you! Hu Jintao, we support you! Wen Jiabao, we support you! Corrupt local officials, you should feel ashamed!

December 12, 2005 @ 10:29 am | Comment

I start to think that you don’t want to help me with my Elvis research. This realy makes me sad. I put much hope in you.
What makes me worry a little is that you start talking about yourself using the plural: “We support you”.
Everything OK with you, or do we have a Hong and a Xing now here instead of only one Hongxing.
But perhaps that is a good thing anyway. Perhaps it was only Hong who is not interested in Elvis and Xing very much. If it’s like that, send me an e-mail Xing, I’m very interested in your opinion. I promise I won’t tell Hong. Cheers.

December 12, 2005 @ 11:43 am | Comment


Oh you’re so slow. HX speaks in the first person plural, “We support you”, because he’s Gollum.

“Nasssssty Elvisssses! We HATES them forever!”

December 12, 2005 @ 4:25 pm | Comment


December 12, 2005 @ 4:26 pm | Comment


“They can SEE us! They can SEE us, Precious! SHHH! Don’t say anything! They can SEE us and HEAR us, shhhh! Be quiet, Precious!”

December 12, 2005 @ 4:27 pm | Comment

Sunbin, are you out there? For some reason, Coming Anarchy is loading too slowly. I wanted to read the post on the McCartney PETA video at that Chinese blog. If you’re there, could you post the link again?


December 12, 2005 @ 6:04 pm | Comment

If you are right, that wouldn’t be such bad news. As you know there’s the good and the bad gollum. So there must be one who loves Elvis. That must be Xing. Just be kind to him and everthing will be all right.

Xing, are you out there. Nice Xing, I’m your friend, don’t you know? Don’t listen to that Hong. He’s a bad guy. Now, what do you know about Elvis? Could you help me … please?

December 13, 2005 @ 3:10 am | Comment

Xing: “Nice Shulan, Shulan is our FRIEND! Yes, yesss, we tells Master Shulan the truth….”

Hong: “NO! Stupid nasty Shulan, he LIES, he wants to confuse us….yesss…the Shulan wants to mislead us, but we won’t let him, Precisous….first we LEADS the Shulan to China Daily, and THEN….then he is in OUR world, Preciousssss!”

December 13, 2005 @ 3:37 am | Comment

I’m just getting started on this site. It’s some good stuff.

One question however:
Why can we only view the comments on these tiny popup windows?

December 13, 2005 @ 11:02 am | Comment

Ivan and Shulan just made me snort coffee through my nose…

December 13, 2005 @ 11:11 am | Comment


Ha-Ha! You got snort-cooties! Nyah-nyah-nye-nyah-nyah!


December 13, 2005 @ 1:12 pm | Comment

We do not have enough information about cooties. All responsible people will avoid commenting on cooties until the government makes an announcement through responsible channels. Let’s all support China and hope for the best through the Cootie-Epidemic! We love you, CCP!
(Chinese Cootie Party)

Ivan morphing into HongXing

December 13, 2005 @ 1:17 pm | Comment


“What’s, ‘cooties’, Precious? Is it TASTY? Is it CRUNCHABLE? AHH! HE SEES us! AGGHH! Oh, always watching, watching watching….um, as we all know, the Government is being responsible, and we should all remain calm…..
….(“nassty Orcses from the PSB, they SEES us all the times, Precious…..”)……….

December 13, 2005 @ 1:29 pm | Comment

One question however:
Why can we only view the comments on these tiny popup windows?

Instead of clicking the “Comments” link, click the TIME that the post was “baked.” The full-screen of comments and the post will come up.

December 13, 2005 @ 4:55 pm | Comment

Any readers live in Huixian, Henan, who could check on this story of enslaved workers in a brickworks? I’m fairly sure it’s all on the up and up, but some independent verification from a citizen journalist wouldn’t go astray.

December 14, 2005 @ 2:23 am | Comment

Finally put up a post on my site, this time telling the story of a preschool-ish run-in between Chinese and Japanese leaders.

December 15, 2005 @ 2:29 am | Comment

Jonathan Fenby himself has commented on the post about his review of Chang-Halliday’s Mao biography.

Kevin, just read your post and feel so disappointed – I thought Wen Jiabao was a different type of guy, above such pettiness. I also like your Human Rights Day post below.

December 15, 2005 @ 2:36 am | Comment

Completely off topic, but Gordon has a post up on the boy who “moved China”. A good read, and I’m not just saying that because he posted it at SW!

December 15, 2005 @ 2:37 am | Comment

Thought everyone would enjoy this, from the Onion this week –

China Slaughters Population To Control Flu Outbreak

December 14, 2005 | Issue 41โ€ข50

BEIJINGโ€”Chinese health officials entered a new phase of their bird-flu-containment campaign Monday by slaughtering all non-essential personnel, the Xinhua News Agency reported. “This weekend, we placed into bleach-filled plastic bags, asphyxiated, and then incinerated all 15 million residents of Beijing who may have come into contact with birds or the air through which birds have flown,” Vice Minister of Agriculture Zhang Baowen said. “We are also asking the World Health Organization for additional help in eliminating the human-borne vector of this virus.” Plans to connect the remaining 1.3 billion potentially infected citizens to high-voltage power lines extending from the Three Gorges hydroelectric dam will commence within the week.

December 15, 2005 @ 4:05 am | Comment

Ah, you mean the incident where Wen refused to lend his pen to Koizumi?

Yeah, Wen was too slow. That’s the problem with Communists: They ALL have such thick wits. The higher they go, the slower their brains are and vice versa.

If Wen had any real wits – like Churchill, for example – he should have given Koizumi the pen and said,
“Keep it, as long as you don’t rewrite history with it.”

December 15, 2005 @ 4:24 am | Comment


December 15, 2005 @ 7:09 am | Comment

While HX’s comment was juvenile, it does highlight the fracturing of the CCP. There exists quite a hefty disconnect between the “Shanghai Schmoozers” of Jiang Zemin, “Populists” of Hu Jintao, “Technocrats” of Wu yi and the like, and “Local officials”…. etc. etc.

Don’t ask me how I know this. If I told you, I’d have to kill you.

December 15, 2005 @ 8:50 am | Comment

Anyone have a place I could rent near Tsinghua Daxue? My searches are falling flat from here in England…

December 15, 2005 @ 10:43 am | Comment

Just a quick post to say that I’ve now tagged on the entries on my blog, which means that you can now find all my entries on China in the same place, as opposed to having to wade/plough/scroll through lots of other rubbish!

December 15, 2005 @ 11:24 am | Comment

Someone ought to remind Premier Wen of the infamous incident, when Dulles refused to shake Zhou Enlai’s hand…

December 15, 2005 @ 12:31 pm | Comment

This is not a serious comment, so I’ll put it here – in order not to muck up dave’s debate (a few threads below) about opium and missionaries:

So, dave, may we assume that you do not take the missionary position on opium?

(Come on, dave, you were asking for that one…. ๐Ÿ™‚

December 16, 2005 @ 3:13 am | Comment

Oh, boy, wonder how that satirical Onion story will be received by the Chinese. Won’t see the humor in it, that’s for sure.

December 16, 2005 @ 12:30 pm | Comment

Where is “dave’s debate (a few threads below) about opium and missionaries”?

I would hate to miss that one!

December 18, 2005 @ 5:14 am | Comment

Guangzhou, Dec. 18 (Xinhua) — The strain is fading and life returns to normal in the village of Shanwei City, southern Guangdong Province, where violent attacks by villagers to a power plant happened on Dec. 5 and 6, according to local government.

All the eight injured, including the three seriously-wounded, were out of danger, said a spokesman for the Shanwei City government in a interview with the Nanfang Daily, leading newspaper in Guangdong Province, on Saturday.

The situation in Dongzhoukeng Village, where the incident happened, has become stable. Schools and other public services have resumed normal operation and construction for the Shanwei thermal power plant has restarted, said the spokesman.

The spokesman also released the name list of the dead in the armed assault. They are Lin Yidui, 26, Jiang Guangge, 35 and Wei Jin, 31, all male villagers of Dongzhoukeng.

Police have detained Huang Xijun, Huang Xirang and Lin Hanru, who were accused of inciting villagers to launch the violent attacks to a wind power plant in the Dongzhouken, “seriously endangering the safety of people and public properties,” said the spokesman.

As the armed assault is accused of a serious criminal offense, the spokesman said the three suspects have been transferred to local procuratorate for further investigation.

Local procuratorate has also detained the commander of the police who were maintaining orders at the site and were forced to open fire in alarm after attacked by explosives, but accidentally leaving three villagers dead and eight others injured, according to the spokesman.

“Investigation is still underway. The case will be dealt with fairly and all the results will be made known to public in time,” said the spokesman.

Hundreds of villagers in Dongzhoukeng and Shigongliao were engineered and organized by a few instigators led by Huang Xijun to illegally besiege and attack a wind power plant at noon on Dec. 5 and Dec. 6, said the spokesman.

Soon after the Dec. 6 Incident, the city government of Shanwei immediately established a special task force to handle the incident.

Six surgeons were sent from Guangzhou, the provincial capital, to treat the injured and government officials were assigned to take care of aftermath of the villagers’ death, said the spokesman.

Work teams were sent to tell villagers the truth of the incident and local public security department also issued notice to confiscate explosives and attack knives.

“We continue taking good care of the injured and dealing with the aftermath of the dead appropriately and help the villages resolve the problems they may encounter in their daily life,” said the spokesman.

“Most of the villagers showed understanding and support to the measures taken by the government. Though few of them were resentful at first, they calm down after getting to know the truth of the incident,” said the spokesman.

Early in this June, Huang Xijun, one of the major instigators in the incident, took part in an election of a village committee, an official-recognized self-government organization at China’s villages.

When he realized that he might lose the election, Huang exploded the ballot box with firecrackers in public, leaving the election halt.

To escape from the due legal punishment for disrupting the election, Huang, in collusion with Huang Xirang, Lin Hanru and Huang Xianyu, incited villagers to join in armed protests since June, using villagers’ discontents over a land requisition of the thermal power plant in Dongzhoukeng Village as the excuse, said the spokesman.

The instigators frequently formed armed protests in the construction site of the thermal power plant, blocked public traffic, attacked government offices and even illegally detained people and vehicles passing through the village to threat the local government to approve more compensation fund in land requisition.

In order to magnify the effect of their protests, the instigators hatched the assault of the win d power plant in Shigongliao Village, which had no relations with their former request for fund concerning the land requisition in Dongzhoukeng Village.

“According to our investigation, local land resources office had paid due compensation fund for land requisition to the villagers in line with the national rules on land administration before November, 2004,” said the spokesman, adding all the 1,629 families, except 25 families, had received the compensation in cash.

To resolve the disputes peacefully, the city government of Shanwei and the administrative committee of Honghaiwan economic development zone, where the thermal power plant located, have sent work teams to carry out negotiations with villagers, showing their most sincerity and patience, said the spokesman.

The administrative committee of the economic development zone said in this November that it would provide 6 million yuan (750,000 U.S. dollars) annually from 2006 to 2008 to support the economic development and education in the Dongzhoukeng village and help the needy.

In addition, the city government carried out investigation on the officials who were accused of corruption. The thermal power plant also promised to hire some villagers, which were welcome by most of the villagers, said the spokesman.

December 18, 2005 @ 12:36 pm | Comment

Thanks for that clip, Dylan. I just adore happy endings.

December 18, 2005 @ 5:04 pm | Comment

You see, a very cleanly written report, much more sophisticated than the “No one died on the Square, and that’s final” of 1989.

An outsider might read this report and thinks “Hmm, sounds pretty objective to me, and the gov’t arrested some police officers and is taking care of the injured”.

Is Xinhua learning from Foxnews, or is Foxnews learning from Xinhua.

December 18, 2005 @ 6:51 pm | Comment

Shanghai Slim,

My debate with Sun Bin about the Opium Wars is over in the “Beijing’s Historical Fantasies” thread. I think both of us are a bit frayed at each other, since we both seem to think the other isn’t listening. Anyway, as a result I have so many bloody materials on opium in China I’ve got a hell of a post in the pipeline. All I can say is that having university access to Google Scholar means way too many interesting PDFs to read.

And Ivan, when I’m through with them, the missionaries will be taking it up the patooty.

December 18, 2005 @ 8:56 pm | Comment

Thanks for the link, davesgonechina!

I actually learned quite a lot from that exchange, many thanks to all who contributed!

December 19, 2005 @ 1:26 am | Comment


Giving it to missionaries up the patooty? AH! So THAT’s what “Holy Shit!” means!

December 19, 2005 @ 2:31 am | Comment

Next thread, please.

December 19, 2005 @ 2:58 am | Comment

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