Merry Christmas

I don’t think there’ll be many readers sitting around reading blogs today (I won’t be), but just in case, this is an open thread. Anything goes.

The Discussion: 158 Comments

Tanks – China: 0. USA: 149.
Vehicles: China 0: USA 3800 (1 per 4 soldiers)
Armored vehicles – China: 0 . USA 35.
Artillery: China 66. USA: 300.
Mobile rocket launchers: China: 27. USA: 550.

When a weak nation is invaded by a stronger one, that the weak can resist with all its might until the last breath is already an heroic feat. For a weak nation to challenge a strong one by going outside of her own borders, that had never been tried before.

When Man Anying, his son, was killed on the battlefield in Korea. Mao himself, upon being delivered the news, said famously: “Hundreds of thousands gave their lives on that battlefield, we can’t dwell on just one person. What happened happened, let’s move on. I’m the leader of the nation, I’m the one who decided to send our troops to Korea. If my son doesn’t go, how can I convince the nation to support this war? He’s Mao Zedong’s son, there can be no other way.’

When Mao shook hand with the mother of Huang Jiguang, another PLA soldier who gave his life in Korea, we saw no sadness on the mother’s face, only smiles.

Why? Because she knew. She knew that of the arsenal of heroes who were forever resting on that battlefield, her son was among them, but so was Mao Zedong’s. The person now shaking her hands and sending his condolenscnes, was also a family of the war hero. From this mother we saw a spirit larger than life, a spirit of fearlessness, a spirit of sacrifice, a spirit of idealism, a spirit of a hero, a spirit of a mother.

Those are also the spirits of Mao.

Mao belongs to China, but he also belongs to the world. He is of the Chinese people, but also of the world’s people.

Happy birthday, Chairman.

[ Huang ji guang’s mother shaking hands with Mao, 1954 ]

http://i0.sinaimg.cn/book/excerpt/sz/2008-06-23/U2883P112T3D239013F1819DT20080623144433.jpg

December 26, 2012 @ 11:43 am | Comment

Merry Christmas all!

December 26, 2012 @ 5:40 pm | Comment

Happy Holidays folks!

December 26, 2012 @ 6:15 pm | Comment

Merry Christmas.

December 26, 2012 @ 7:31 pm | Comment

Merry Christmas! Hope all are enjoying the company of friends and loved ones. 🙂

December 26, 2012 @ 7:36 pm | Comment

Peace, cheer and joy to everyone!

December 26, 2012 @ 8:03 pm | Comment

A highly educated Mainland Chinese immigrant’s experience in America is an experience in regression: regression of mental capacity, regression of physical strength, regression in language ability (both Chinese and English), regression in cooking skills, regression in food tastes, regression in fashion tastes, regression in mental spirits, regression of hairline, regression of handiness, regression of sexual potency. The only thing that doesn’t regress is his age.

Sigh.

There are 8 types of Chinese people who are suited to staying in America:

1) Women, especially women with PhD’s and women with ugly appearance.
2) Chinese men who do not like beautiful Chinese women
3) People who enjoy getting PhD’s and post-docs.
4) People who enjoy staying in windowless labs for 8 hours a day earning 30,000 a year.
5) People who like playing ping pong with his wife in their house’s basement on weekends.
6) People who like living in the middle of nowhere.
7) People who enjoy speaking chinglish to their kids everyday and their kids being ashamed of them.
8) People who like fried chicken

————–

December 27, 2012 @ 12:26 am | Comment

Clock, I’m beginning to think you’re actually some racist white guy posting out of his mom’s basement. Just go away.

December 27, 2012 @ 2:37 am | Comment

You are an ABC, why do you stay in China and not in the US? Clearly you’ve made a calculation that being in China is better for your career than being in the US right now.

December 27, 2012 @ 3:20 am | Comment

Is the CCP finally getting serious about corruption? An excellent article in the Times makes you wonder. High-level officials are exempt, of course, but local officials may be in for greater scrutiny and punishment. Let’s wait and see. Every regime promises to crack down on corruption. Well worth a read.

Update: Another article says China is about to crack down heavily on those posting about corruption on the Internet. Every time we get a glint of hope, we end up disappointed.

December 27, 2012 @ 3:30 am | Comment

Another good read, this one on how China has backed itself into a corner over the disputed islands. Will there be war?

December 27, 2012 @ 3:33 am | Comment

I’m beginning to think you’re actually some racist white guy posting out of his mom’s basement.

Yes, absolutely. Chinese people would never talk like this. Only WASPs can show bad manners, a disturbed mind, or a desire to make other “races”, nations etc. “look bad”.

December 27, 2012 @ 3:54 am | Comment

Ironic that he’s posting from America.

Everyone needs to go see Bloomberg’s incredible look behind the curtain of China’s princelings. Be sure to click on the graphic. This is Pulitzer material.

December 27, 2012 @ 4:06 am | Comment

Merry Christmas, everyone. I hope you are enjoying the holidays.

@CM,

‘No, I said specifically that countries with economic ties with China are booming.’

Let me remind you:

Xilin : ‘Previous world powers have brought economic growth to other nations.’
CM: ‘No, they haven’t. Any time a European colonial (or Islamic imperial, etc) power has brought “economic growth” to a polity it was only to serve their own interests.’

Look, either they did bring economic growth, or they didn’t. I completely agree that economic ventures were designed primarily to benefit their own interests. But, when I ask you whether or not Chinese ventures in Africa do not serve Chinese interests, you remain silent.

‘That are income/wealth adjusted.’

Look, you haven’t provided any evidence to support your claim that ‘Chinese people have the lowest crime rates in the world’. When I provide evidence to counter this, you say that statistics have to be wealth adjusted or take into account the fact that China is a developing nation. But the statistics just don’t fit into any of this. Taiwan is more developed and wealthier, per capita, than mainland China, but has a higher intentional homicide rate (three times higher). How is this possible?

‘To the contrary, the Qing court made efforts to constrain the movement of people onto Taiwan.’

The colonisation of Taiwan was started by Europeans and completed by the Chinese (and don’t forget the Japanese). It started way back in the Ming dynasty. The fact that the Qing court did implement measures to control the movement of people into Taiwan does not mean they didn’t want anyone going there at all. Chinese migration to Taiwan resulted in numerous conflicts with the aboriginal peoples there, a complete change in demographics, and the loss of aboriginal lands, culture and language.

You claim that you are ‘not aware of any attempts by any Chinese polity to force its culture on other peoples’ and when I give you an example (山地平地化), you state that this was an ‘internal’ issue. So, you are saying that China expanded its borders to encompass other peoples, then forced Chinese culture on these peoples. This is exactly what I was getting at with the model I gave in the last thread:

‘….first comes trade, then military forces to protect financial interests and growing numbers of citizens overseas, then aggressive promotion of one’s culture, religion, language, form of governance etc.’

Does the experience of Taiwan not fit into this model?

‘China had tributary obligations to the preceding dynasty in Vietnam. It’s not exactly an “invasion”.’

How else would you describe the Ming military activities in Vietnam between 1406 and 1407 if it not by using the term ‘invasion’? Are their actions not an example of ‘sociopathic, rent-seeking, evil behaviour’?

Which culture or people, that has risen to a position of power, can claim to have a peaceful history free from the blemishes of expansionism and aggressively promoting their own culture? If all other powers have done this before (and not just the Europeans, but any power that has risen to a position of dominance) then will China do the same if it does become more dominant? If you think not, then please tell me why? It is a historically proven method for promoting your culture and elevating your position at the expense of all others.

December 27, 2012 @ 3:30 pm | Comment

And a happy new year to you, too, Xilin.

December 27, 2012 @ 10:03 pm | Comment

Perhaps my mental image of the average PRC nationalist Internet troll is off base, (and I acknowldge that the Clock eliminates himself from consideration with the “highly educated” qualifier) but still I don’t see people like the Clock possessing many or even any of the attributes he is claiming will regress in America. Mental capacity? Physical strength? Language ability? Fashion tastes? Sexual potency? The jokes write themselves.

December 28, 2012 @ 1:04 am | Comment

The round of non-governmental confrontation over the Diaoyu Islands has been one of the most profitable for many Chinese. ONE WAY BET. As the patriotic Chinese refuse to buy Japanese goods, Chinese Soros clean up on shorting the Yen. Even small frys can make money on this easy bet. The Yen is already at 86 (down from 79 a few weeks ago).

Even the Nikkei, which is showing a bull flag pattern (more like a B.S. flag), could come tumbling down in 2013, as the investors realize that the export dependent stocks (Toyota, Honda, Sony, Matsushita, anyone), largely shut out of the massively growing China market, have no prospects even with a falling Yen. This is especially true if a military dispute flares up.

Abe has nowhere to go but print more Yen, at a time when the JP national debt is already 225% of GDP. Abe is openly shooting for an inflation target of 2%, and demanded that the Japanese central bank print as much Yen as needed to achieve that. Beijing should certainly help Tokyo along, by tagging a 25% export surtax to Japan until done. Over 70% of exports to Japan from China are done by Japanese outfits anyway, and those facilities and factories can be picked up for a song thereafter. Moreover, if you remove Made-in-China, Japan will really see what hyperinflation means.

When it is all said and done, the JP bond interest rates would probably pop by 5-10% a year. All’s well that ends well.

And to celebrate, the pigheaded (moi) won $8.38 over 8 rounds of Mahjong with old friends this Christmas weekend, with two-style huo-guo (hotpot) dinner to follow. Good friends shared the remaining half jug of Nu-er Hong scalded over hot water, and roundly cussed out the Japanese and Chicoms and all things unsatisfactory. Mmm-mmm,no Michelin 3 star experience can beat that.

Happy holidays to all!

December 28, 2012 @ 1:41 am | Comment

Aaand a happy new year to you, Tai De and slim.

December 28, 2012 @ 2:57 am | Comment

And to you JR, and to everybody who dines on Peking Duck here.

December 28, 2012 @ 4:15 am | Comment

Mm. Happy new year. Already gained two kilos…

December 28, 2012 @ 6:58 am | Comment

Mm. Happy new year. Already gained two kilos…

I read this as

Mm. Happy new year. Already gained two kids…

>_>

December 28, 2012 @ 6:40 pm | Comment

A belated merry Christmas to one and all.

December 28, 2012 @ 8:40 pm | Comment

Thoughts for the new year:

Treating China as a non-Market Economy is such B.S. – it is a rigged game to discriminate against China in trade. The discrimination must be met head-on: any country that does not recognize China as a market economy shall henceforth be treated as a non-market economy by China, and the production and utilities costs of Switzerland shall be used in surrogate calculations. There is NOTHING in the WTO rules that says that China has to recognize other nations as market economies other than by China’s own laws. The laws can and must be changed. NZ already recognized China as a market economy since 2004, and the two nations enjoy wonderful trade relationships.

Start with Japan and Korea.

December 29, 2012 @ 11:40 am | Comment

I have always wondered how a 25% surtax on exports would make importing countries appreciate well priced Made in China a lot more.

Such goods – the fruits of the smart work and hard work of the Chinese, have literally been the most effective (some insist the only effective) poverty alleviation program in human history for the last 30 years. It works all around the globe, and provide on a daily basis higher living standards to much of the 6.5 billion souls on Earth.

All thanks largely to the CPC, of course.

Don’t be ingrates. Say thanks to the Chicoms this holiday season, after you look through the presents, and come to realize that most of your holiday joy of giving and receiving would be a lot less enjoyable but for Made in China.

Come together now, THANK YOU CPC, THANK YOU CHINESE PEOPLE, THANK YOU CHINA!!

December 29, 2012 @ 11:45 am | Comment

You have definitely earned your 50 mao.

December 29, 2012 @ 12:39 pm | Comment

Aaand a merry Christmas to you, Richard.

Zhuubajie’s motivation is personal, I believe. He wants to believe that he (he’s equating his view with Chinese views much of the time) is good for something – hence the talk about “ingrates”, re China’s measures to save our lives with affordable consumer goods.

I’m sure that China has a lot to offer to the world, but consumer goods aren’t the first things that would come to my mind. As long as I used filament bulbs on my bike, I always bought two for the front, and three for the rear lamp every time – those small rear bulbs were worst. I bought one for accidentally breaking the bulb from the winding while inserting it, one to use it, and one to replace the new bulb after a few hours of operation. I’d have preferred the bulbs I I had known before – the ones that went on, and on, and on. It would have done a favor to the environment, too. But the problem was that there were no such bulbs anymore. “Sorry”, the dealer said, “they are all from China now”.

Not that I’m blaming China for that – I just don’t think there’s a lot of reason to be unilaterally “grateful” for the currents of global trade. If zhuubaajie needs more self-esteem, he should try to earn it. It’s for him to decide how much decent behavior on his part would satisfy him.

December 29, 2012 @ 2:01 pm | Comment

Gained two kids? How awful.

I’m returning back to non-market economy China tomorrow, soil have to start accessing the site through a proxy again because CERTAIN PEOPLE are afraid of their own shadow…

December 29, 2012 @ 3:58 pm | Comment

Thanks for the excellent comment, JR. A fine assessment of what motivates our new friend.

Please note that’s I’ve added a new guest post directly below.

December 30, 2012 @ 1:30 am | Comment

@JR

Instead of psychoanalyzing the pigheaded (a lost cause through and through, as Zhuubaajie is clearly a persona), why not stick to issues and facts and opinions instead?

Calling on Westerners, especially Americans and Aussies not to be ingrates, is more than justified. Both get much more than they give to China.

December 30, 2012 @ 10:19 am | Comment

Thanks for the excellent comment, JR.

Nothing commendable, Richard. All it takes to see the guys misery is to take a few steps back from the “interaction”, and to look at it. My recommendation would be not to talk with, but about him – and his points, if there are any. Xilin’s advice (previous thread, now closed) amounts to the same approach.

Obviously, that’s not the kind of debate zhuu baajie would like to have.

December 30, 2012 @ 8:30 pm | Comment

Japan, in the midst of things, is trying really hard to stir things up. It just hijacked another Chinese fishing boat under threat of firing and sinking it. The alleged infraction? Passing through the 200 nautical mile zone of once of its small islands. No fish was found. There was supposedly 1.5 kg (yes, 3 lbs) of coral. There is no proof at all that the coral came from that part of the sea. There is no proof at all that the Chinese vessel was doing anything except passing through. Yet the ship has been detained, and livelihoods are lost.

What’s this crap about threatening the freedom of passage on the high seas??!! WHERE are the Americans in upholding that freedom?

It is Japan that is provoking a conflict. 1.5 kg of rocks – a little bigger than the size of a fist. The Japanese believe that with the muscle of the hegemon behind it, it is free to do whatever it pleases, no matter how unreasonable.

December 31, 2012 @ 4:15 am | Comment

What is good must be universal.

This is not the first time that Chinese vessels are stopped and towed back to a foreign port for search and seizure. If America the “policeman” is not going to stop the Japanese hijacking of Chinese vessels merely passing through alleged EEZ, that is now the expected conduct of nations.

Next time that spy ship is “passing through” China’s EEZ, there better not be that 1.5 kg of rock on the ship, as that is now the international standard.

December 31, 2012 @ 11:03 am | Comment

Japan is sending ships to go hunt whales in Antarctic waters claimed by Australia. The move is wildly unpopular in Australia, both touching the nerves of environmentalists and nationalists.

Maybe China should do a little bit of tit-for-tat, and conduct some ‘friendly’ high seas interdiction of the whaling ships when they’re heading to the zone to ‘inspect’ the ships and make sure they’re not carrying illegal whaling equipment. Would be nice to stall them long enough so that they miss the whaling season.

It’d be a great wedge issue to put the US in a bind, and win support for China in Australia.

December 31, 2012 @ 12:38 pm | Comment

FYI, the excuses Japan is using to hold the Chinese crew make no sense. First off, biased assertions from the BBC and Reuters notwithstanding, the boat was not in Japanese waters–it was in the Japanese EEZ, which is legal to traverse. Second, coral fishing is something that typically removes 50 or 100kg of coral in one go; how is 1.5kg of coral indicative of violation of the EEZ? Third, how is Japan even proving that the boat was ‘fishing’ in the waters and not just passing by?

Good luck to PM Abe in trying to complete his plans for quantitative easing. A proper Chinese response would be to quietly amass a position in Japanese government bonds with the Chinese sovereign wealth fund, and initiate a Soros-style attack on Japan, but with all of China’s financial firepower. If Soros could break the Bank of England with a mere billion dollars of dry powder, imagine what a few hundred billion dollars of Chinese financial muscle could do to the brittle Japanese bond market.

December 31, 2012 @ 12:47 pm | Comment

@t_co – Soros had the advantage of having the fundamentals in his favour – the BoE was trying to maintain an unmaintainable position and he was just among the first to call them on it. No-one could simply engineer that kind of situation.

As for the EEZ being the equivalent of a territorial waters, since the PRC government is foremost amongst those countries which have behaved as if it is (cf. harassment of US navy ships transiting through the South China Seas) it’s going to be a bit difficult to claim otherwise.

December 31, 2012 @ 2:40 pm | Comment

t_co # 34 Wedge issue! Surely you are jesting? For better or worse, Australian Federal govts of either persuasion are rusted on to the US alliance, and it ain’t about to get unrusted over Japanese whaling.

Anti-US sentiment peaked here in the 1970s -Pine Gap, Vietnam.

We don’t mind them investing their blood and treasure in the Pacific pivot.

There is little hard support for China here, despite drivel by Rudd and Emerson…we just sell them minerals and buy their widgets.

And, on th contrary, Japan is highly regarded in this country despite its rotten WW11 record.

And the more China pisses of Vietnam and its neighbours, the greater the suspicion here of the Big Red Dragon and its blue water intentions.

(You should write up your devious plan and post it off to The Diplomat.)

December 31, 2012 @ 4:17 pm | Comment

Norway’s whale policy also comes in for the same amount of flack. However, that doesn’t stop tons of Norwegian students descending on our beaches, universities and liquor outlets each year.

Breaking the Japanese bond market.

Have you just drunk a large carton of megalomania?

You are being plain silly today.

December 31, 2012 @ 4:30 pm | Comment

@t_co, Soros’ wolfpack (he and his hedge fund peers) had considerably more than $1 bil in the 1992 game. Nobody can win a duel within the realm of the Japanese bond market against the Japanese, because the Japanese own the supply of the currency and the bonds, on which the game is played. To “break” a central bank (BoE in 1992, or BCRA in 2002), you will have to play a game with at least one leg the central bank doesn’t own the supply of. Granted once in a blue moon you have a black swan case such as Russia’s 1998 default on Ruble-denominated bonds, but if Russia perceived it was the financial attack by a foreign country, even the drunken Yeltsin could’ve just printed more Ruble to meet the domestic bond obligations.

At the end it was all fundamentals. What the BoE couldn’t defend, or at least chose not to defend further, was the exchange rate between British Pound and Deutsche Mark at above 2.70. Sure once the line was breached, it went as low as 2.15ish in 1995, but it eventually bounced back and went as high as 3.00ish before DEM turning into EUR.

On the other hand, after the Argentine Peso crashed and the central bank couldn’t defend parity with USD, a decade later it’s US$1 = ARS5.

Don’t get me wrong, there is major weakness in the Japanese system, and IMHO Japan is in a terminal decline, fundamentally. Now is not the time to let loose your wolfpack.

BTW, the fishing boat incident ended with a $50k fine. It would be silly to start a financial war for a small case like that, especially without a perfect timing.

BTW 2, Soros and his wolfpack, now much better funded attacked Euro in early 2010. The whisper was USD/EUR parity. They took the chips off the table after China provided the support to Euro.

January 1, 2013 @ 4:49 am | Comment

Instead of pontificating, the Chinese puts the money where the mouth is.

$1.7 on a put option on a Yen ETF already turned to over $8 in less than 2 months, and the Yen is only at 86 (from 79’ish). There’s a very long way to go yet to 120.

January 1, 2013 @ 5:06 am | Comment

The most successful trait of the CPC is that there is no hubris. The Chinese have no false pride, like you know who, that they know everything. Instead, the Chinese are open minded and are willing to try different ways that seem to be working for other cultures.

http://africa.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2013-01/01/content_16073482.htm

The combination of a system that graduates 6 million university grads each year, with half of them in the sciences and engineering, AND incorporating different ways of thinking, will continue to mean that China will have cost effective R&D (currently at 1/5th the cost of doing it in the West). That in turn guarantees that China’s development will be faster than that of everyone else’s.

The quality of the leadership really does make a difference. Chicoms have leaders, instead of clowns pretending to be leaders.

January 1, 2013 @ 5:10 pm | Comment

Whomever says that economic pressure is not working?? Abe the clown is taking the unswerving claim of ownership of the Diaoyu Is. seriously, and as a direct consequence of continued and effective Chinese boycott, Abe is forced into taking unprecedented action – massive nationalization to keep the industries from dying.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/9773883/Japan-plans-nationalisation-of-factories-to-save-industry.html

The boycotts caused Japan another 500,000 MT of steel output just this current quarter. Japan’s steel industry is already at least one generation behind those in China in terms of technology. Strip it of a major market, see Japan steel come tumbling down also.

http://www.amm.com/Article/3126436/Steel/Chinas-boycott-to-curb-Japan-steel-output-550000T.html

This is no longer a tactical move, but of substantial strategic value. Yank out Japan as “ding zi” 钉子, it serves multiple purposes. WHO is Australia and Russia going to sell to once Japan is gone as a major customer? The terms of trade would improve all of a sudden in the neighborhood.

What is beautiful is that this is asymmetrical. During the last six months, while Japanese exports to China decreased, that going the other way did not – Japan today RELIES on well priced Made in China for much of DAILY NECESSITIES, i.e., the imports from China are not elastic. (The same is actually true for America). If Abe tries to retaliate by blocking Chinese exports to Japan, it just accelerates the inevitable. Hyperinflation would come on a much faster schedule, and interest rates on that huge national debt, which is 225% of Japanese GDP, will balloon to 7, 8, or even 10% a year, sinking Japan’s economy permanently. 25% surtax on exports to Japan would be a logical next move.

Bonds is just one area. A continued boycott is the key for this sustained strategic move. Give the Japanese all the talk they deserve, but hold steady on replacing purchases – even switching to American and European and Korean brands would be O.K. But this is not the time to practice 妇人之仁.

January 2, 2013 @ 5:11 am | Comment

Happy New Year, zhuzhu.

January 2, 2013 @ 5:24 am | Comment

“Japan was playing with fire by trying to reflate, warning that this could decimate the bond portfolio of Japanese lenders and set off a banking crisis. The banks hold government bonds worth 900% of their Tier 1 capital.”

Most of those JP govt. bonds are paying only around 2% interest. If interest rate doubles to 4 or 5% interest, the value of those existing bonds more have HALVES. That would wipe out the entire Tier 1 capital of the JP banking sector 4 or 5 times over. Abe would have no alternative but to print more gazillions of Yen.

Yes, China also holds SOME JP govt. bonds, and would suffer losses if the JP bonds fall disastraously. But the leverage is MUCH sweeter than that with American treasuries. Most of JP govt. issues are held DOMESTICALLY. China’s holding is less than half of one percent of total JP govt. debt. That means China’s loss is magnified 200 fold within Japan, and well worth it strategically.

Already Abe has mandated at least 90 Yen per Dollar – it is a foregone conclusion that Japan WILL overshoot, and likely end up with 120 or even 160 Yen/Dollar. Watch the fireworks go off, as the Chinese Soros clean up. Most American hedge funds already have Yen specific teams to take advantage of this sick economy ran by fools. 2013 is going to be kabuke year as you watch the Japanese economy melt down right in public view.

January 2, 2013 @ 5:34 am | Comment

Why are you working on a holiday?

January 2, 2013 @ 5:35 am | Comment

Happy New Year to you too, Richard.

ZhuZhu would more likely be a girl’s name in Chinese (pearl pearl). Bajie (8-admonishments) or even Pigheaded will do.

January 2, 2013 @ 5:37 am | Comment

It’s just a nickname, no harm intended. Enjoy your holiday, take a break from commenting here. Surely you have better things to do. The last five comments are all from you. Do you have any hobbies, like stamp collecting or butterfly catching? Get out some more and live your life instead on anchoring yourself to silly blogs. No one’s reading today anyway.

January 2, 2013 @ 5:41 am | Comment

Some people say a man is made outta mud
Ol’ Pigsy is made outta bullshit and blood
Bullshit and blood and fingers and sick
A mind that’s a-weak and a keyboard that’s quick

You load sixteen comments and what do you get?
A stinkin’ wumao and deeper in debt
Sun Yat-sen don’t you call me ’cause there’s nothing to see
I owe my soul to the CPC

January 2, 2013 @ 5:48 am | Comment

Don’t know about soul. But most Chinese owe the CPC their improving living standards (still improving after 34 years) and national pride in being Chinese, that is true.

January 2, 2013 @ 6:04 am | Comment

Xilin
Let me remind you:

You’re dodging my point and making it about your rhetoric and semantics, so I accept your defeat on this point unless you clarify.

I said countries with ties to China are booming, as in the people are thriving. NOT that they’re being led around in chains and threatened with dismemberment if they don’t work, as happened during the Scramble for Africa. China’s involvement in Africa is COMPLETELY different, and I will not bother to explain this because you know it’s true.

when I ask you whether or not Chinese ventures in Africa do not serve Chinese interest

This is completely asinine. I apologize if I am misreading a legitimate question, but at best it’s irrelevant to my point.

Look, you haven’t provided any evidence to support your claim that ‘Chinese people have the lowest crime rates in the world’.

I absolutely have. Again, it’s implied that there is an inherent cultural factor involved all other things equal. Lets actually get back to the point and not grasp at semantics.

Taiwan is more developed and wealthier, per capita, than mainland China, but has a higher intentional homicide rate (three times higher). How is this possible?

Taiwanese are *a* Chinese people, not *the* Chinese people.

The fact that the Qing court did implement measures to control the movement of people into Taiwan does not mean they didn’t want anyone going there at all.

Where did I make any claims on the Qing court’s desires? In fact they did NOT want Chinese people going overseas, including Taiwan. But their legislation was realist and they eventually relented, allowing Chinese migrants to officially take wives and settle in Taiwan. Regardless, lets get back to the point. We were talking about China being expansionist, as in the PRC. For one, the settlement of Taiwan was not government sponsored. Private individuals simply rode off to trade and eventually intermingle with the locals. The whole reason why I brought up the series of restrictive laws is to illustrate that point. By your analogy, the Chinese presence in Singapore is also state-sponsored colonization. Lastly since you mention the Ming I want to remind you that it was only when the dynasty collapsed that mass migration to Taiwan took place, so yes a destabilized China is dangerous. I don’t see how this tells us anything about how China may behave in the future.

Chinese migration to Taiwan resulted in numerous conflicts with the aboriginal peoples there, a complete change in demographics, and the loss of aboriginal lands, culture and language.

You are avoiding the specifics for a reason and simply using a superficial analysis to equate the relatively mild expansion into Taiwan by private Chinese individuals with state-sponsored genocide and the literal dumping of people in the United States, Canada and Australia.

For one, “the aboriginal peoples” are not a monolithic group. Many tribes got along peaceably with the Chinese which stands in stark contrast to their near-universal hatred of the Portuguese and Dutch (who also came to be despised by the Indonesians and Japanese), so I will take that as a credit to my main argument which is that Chinese people treat others better than Europeans do. In fact, if I recall correctly, the Chinese took arms against the Dutch alongside the natives to kick them off the island. Lastly, the Chinese and Aborigines probably fought among themselves than with each other.

So, you are saying that China expanded its borders to encompass other peoples, then forced Chinese culture on these peoples.

And by my above point, your characterization of “China” is inappropriate. Chinese individuals settled a region and then the KMT, facing an existential threat, imposed nationalist ideology on not only the natives but benshengren and all the various other Chinese groups from all over the mainland.

Does the experience of Taiwan not fit into this model?

Clearly, it does not. Trade with the aborigines was done informally, often by people considered by the Qing to be undesirables. It was not state or company-sponsored mercantilism as was the case of Perry in the Ryukyus or the Dutch elsewhere in Asia.

Second, “military forces to protect financial interests” absolutely does not characterize either Koxinga’s retreat during the collapse of the Ming (in which he ousted brutal Dutch colonizers) nor the KMT flight to Taiwan. We should note that China was also pressured into relaxing restrictions on immigration to Taiwan because of European encroachment, and we can draw similarities between this and the fate of the Lhasa government in what is the TAR today. In Taiwan’s case we can make a strong argument that China’s presence thwarted European exploitation, which by Indonesia’s example is known to be particularly harsh. Later Japanese adventurism was likewise rebuffed.

How else would you describe the Ming military activities in Vietnam between 1406 and 1407 if it not by using the term ‘invasion’?

I would absolutely not characterize it as an invasion, as I said before, because the Chinese intervened to reinstall a vassal dynasty after a rebellion at the request of a member of the preceding dynasty.

They subsequently attacked a Chinese diplomatic mission and the borderlands around what is presumably Guangxi today, as the Vietnamese were prone to do. So not quite like up and taking over a continent and torturing people who have never offended you near to extinction.

Which culture or people, that has risen to a position of power, can claim to have a peaceful history free from the blemishes of expansionism and aggressively promoting their own culture?

Again, I am bored of superficial generalizations. The details matter.

January 2, 2013 @ 9:03 am | Comment

RSS feed for comments on this post.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.