Hacked By AdGhosT & Tayeb TN & bo hmid

 

 

 

 

 

close your eyes and listen Elfen Lied <3

Greets~:AdGhosT-- adel pro tn- Anonback Tnx - A_Ghacker - xvirus -Malousi Foryn - MaxKiller - Nexamos

Hacked By AdGhosT

Hacked By AdGhosT & Tayeb TN & bo hmid

 

 

 

 

 

close your eyes and listen Elfen Lied <3

Greets~:AdGhosT-- adel pro tn- Anonback Tnx - A_Ghacker - xvirus -Malousi Foryn - MaxKiller - Nexamos


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Comments on: Xi pledges national renewal; cites Opium War, of course http://www.pekingduck.org/2012/11/xi-pledges-national-renewal-cites-opium-war-of-course/ A peculiar hybrid of personal journal, dilettantish punditry, pseudo-philosophy and much more, from an Accidental Expat who has made his way from Hong Kong to Beijing to Taipei and finally back to Beijing for reasons that are still not entirely clear to him... Wed, 12 Apr 2017 16:34:31 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.7.2 By: MKL http://www.pekingduck.org/2012/11/xi-pledges-national-renewal-cites-opium-war-of-course/comment-page-1/#comment-189433 Sun, 02 Dec 2012 09:54:34 +0000 http://www.pekingduck.org/?p=11172#comment-189433 I think since he’s new on the job, he is trying to appeal to his predecessors with such rhetoric, but I wouldn’t interpret too much into this. It will need a few months for him to really get a good understanding how to lead the country in the best way and it will take equally long for the old guard to realize, that they have to sit on the back seats, while he’s driving. That won’t stop them from giving him directions, though.

For me it will be more interesting to see, what he will actually do, when there is a big challenge inside China or foreign policy wise and I’m especially curious about his approach to Taiwan.

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By: t_co http://www.pekingduck.org/2012/11/xi-pledges-national-renewal-cites-opium-war-of-course/comment-page-1/#comment-189431 Sun, 02 Dec 2012 09:05:46 +0000 http://www.pekingduck.org/?p=11172#comment-189431

Naturally, I would be suspicious of anyone who prioritizes PRC power projection or thinks it will help better the lives of the Chinese people, but even if I wasn’t suspicious of that, I frankly don’t believe anyone who regards “any means necessary” an acceptable method for China to attain the goal of primacy a reformist in the proper sense of the word.

You’re going to have to explain this one. All I have been proposing is an ends-based, utilitarian, political philosophy. What means-based restrictions do you think are necessary before one can be properly qualified as a reformist?

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By: jxie http://www.pekingduck.org/2012/11/xi-pledges-national-renewal-cites-opium-war-of-course/comment-page-1/#comment-189399 Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:04:37 +0000 http://www.pekingduck.org/?p=11172#comment-189399 T_co, sometimes I wish I can port you into another forum and continue our conversation there…

[E]ven if the indemnities and 19th century war losses are to blame, the real question isn’t how to “make up for it”, but rather, how to move forward no matter what happened in the past.

Exactly.

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By: jxie http://www.pekingduck.org/2012/11/xi-pledges-national-renewal-cites-opium-war-of-course/comment-page-1/#comment-189398 Sat, 01 Dec 2012 21:57:46 +0000 http://www.pekingduck.org/?p=11172#comment-189398 @KT, the enlightened Mongol rule started at Genghis Khan’s grandson and below. There were 8 million families in the Jurchen Jin before the existential fights and the toughest fights Mongols had to put up. In 3 decades, the population in the old Jin land was reduced to barely over 1 million families — near 90% depopulation in 3 decades! Western Xia, the Tanggut empire, had their distinctive culture and language, and several million people. As a people they were exterminated by the Mongols.

Then Mongols went west and sacked Baghdad, killed everybody in the city, and burned down everything including libraries and hospitals. They practically ended the Islamic golden age, and indirectly triggered the rise of the West later (the West had nobody to copycat from).

Song was lucky when it was their time to face the Mongol onslaught because the Mongols became kinder by their standard. Even then, the musical element of ancient Chinese poetry was mostly lost during that time.

Sure the fact that the bulk of Eurasia was controlled by one empire allowed many positive developments later, but make no mistake about it, even the killing of Native Americans can’t be compared to what they did.

@Handler, you raised a lot of points. Pick a couple and I will debate you. W.r.t slavery, if we take out serfs and indentured servants, how many were real slaves that are comparable to plantation slaves? I wouldn’t use Wikipedia as a source because in this topic the citations include a couple of wacky books. The important question is how prevalent the practice was. Just because it was recorded in the Chinese history (e.g. Tang) doesn’t mean it’s a common practice — much like rhinos were reported in the history records or even Tang poetry doesn’t mean there were many rhinos in China back then.

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By: t_co http://www.pekingduck.org/2012/11/xi-pledges-national-renewal-cites-opium-war-of-course/comment-page-1/#comment-189388 Sat, 01 Dec 2012 20:06:06 +0000 http://www.pekingduck.org/?p=11172#comment-189388

Besides, moral authority is something you can’t control, or plan for. One can claim moral authority, but a claim alone is rather pointless. Moral authority is something others have to recognize in you, and give you credit for. Just like with any “authority”, it’s only present if you have other people’s respect for it. And if it is “moral authority” that China seeks, sometimes she has a peculiar way of going about it. Lately, that seems to be in the form of funny naval maps, and questionable choice of artwork in passports.

This makes a lot more sense. What I was getting at was that if Handler chooses to judge a nation by her history, then Handler should logically assign no one any moral authority at all, which means China shouldn’t even waste time trying to convince people like Handler and people who share his/her type of thinking that they are right. Instead, they can be dealt with via a policy of carrots and sticks.

That being said, SKC does raise a very important point in that China’s most recent foreign policy is either nonsensical or being spun in a very disadvantageous way. If it’s the former, it needs to change. If it’s the latter, China, perhaps, should look into joint business ventures with Art Sulzburger or Donald Graham.

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By: S. K. Cheung http://www.pekingduck.org/2012/11/xi-pledges-national-renewal-cites-opium-war-of-course/comment-page-1/#comment-189387 Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:51:36 +0000 http://www.pekingduck.org/?p=11172#comment-189387 Jxie is not a CCP cheerleader like some of the others. He’s more of the Han primacy type, though clearly not nearly as deranged as the Jings of the sphere. But when Jxie speak of moral authority, I think it’s appropriate to account for more Chinese history than simply that of the last 65 years, as Handler has done.

Besides, moral authority is something you can’t control, or plan for. One can claim moral authority, but a claim alone is rather pointless. Moral authority is something others have to recognize in you, and give you credit for. Just like with any “authority”, it’s only present if you have other people’s respect for it. And if it is “moral authority” that China seeks, sometimes she has a peculiar way of going about it. Lately, that seems to be in the form of funny naval maps, and questionable choice of artwork in passports.

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By: Handler http://www.pekingduck.org/2012/11/xi-pledges-national-renewal-cites-opium-war-of-course/comment-page-1/#comment-189384 Sat, 01 Dec 2012 18:42:38 +0000 http://www.pekingduck.org/?p=11172#comment-189384 As the PLA claims China’s purity stems from ancient history and civilization, and as jxie specifically referred to Chinese civilization, and as you see yourself as a Chinese reformist not in the sense of being, correct me if I’m wrong here, a citizen but for broader, “civilizational” reasons, my comments are far more appropriate (and less fallacious) than your own.

“But I think we would be wise to bury the hatchet regarding history as a source moral authority, lest we launch into a massive equivocation round including the United States, where the same government has been in continuous operation since the 18th century.”

Why would you choose to do that as a response to me pointing out that Chinese civilization hardly has the moral authority jxie imputed? Weird.

“I’m surprised you don’t read me as a Chinese reformist. I’m not sure what distinction you see.”

I’m surprised you see yourself as one. Naturally, I would be suspicious of anyone who prioritizes PRC power projection or thinks it will help better the lives of the Chinese people, but even if I wasn’t suspicious of that, I frankly don’t believe anyone who regards “any means necessary” an acceptable method for China to attain the goal of primacy a reformist in the proper sense of the word.

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By: t_co http://www.pekingduck.org/2012/11/xi-pledges-national-renewal-cites-opium-war-of-course/comment-page-1/#comment-189381 Sat, 01 Dec 2012 17:49:36 +0000 http://www.pekingduck.org/?p=11172#comment-189381 And the desire for China to get its own house in order to project strength (富国强民) is the unstated desire of Chinese reformists–or at least the young people I’ve met. Handler, if you have evidence that suggests the contrary, could you share it?

I’m surprised you don’t read me as a Chinese reformist. I’m not sure what distinction you see.

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By: t_co http://www.pekingduck.org/2012/11/xi-pledges-national-renewal-cites-opium-war-of-course/comment-page-1/#comment-189380 Sat, 01 Dec 2012 17:42:18 +0000 http://www.pekingduck.org/?p=11172#comment-189380 Handler, the Chinese government in place today is not the Yuan dynasty or even Qing dynasty. Claiming that their moral authority is somehow besmirched by the actions of a long-deposed emperor is fallacious.

But I think we would be wise to bury the hatchet regarding history as a source moral authority, lest we launch into a massive equivocation round including the United States, where the same government has been in continuous operation since the 18th century.

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By: Handler http://www.pekingduck.org/2012/11/xi-pledges-national-renewal-cites-opium-war-of-course/comment-page-1/#comment-189374 Sat, 01 Dec 2012 15:11:32 +0000 http://www.pekingduck.org/?p=11172#comment-189374 Moral authority: tricky, that. Particularly when it is something of an ethnic fetish for those claiming it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_China

http://books.google.co.kr/books?id=UmxhQgAACAAJ&dq=islam%27s+black+slaves&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Xh26UOPcDIiPiAfk4IDgBA&redir_esc=y

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