Comments on: Hu Jintao’s legacy

By: dropby

dropby — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 19:53:08 +0000

Hey Kevinc, I like your straight forward comment: “Jiang Zemin was clearly a piece of shit, and despite our hopes, Hu Jintao is the same.” He was, is and will be a shit all his life.

By: dropby

dropby — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 19:38:22 +0000

I agree with FOARP in that Hu-Wen regime is nothing but Jiang clique’s puppet. As such, the entire 30 years of “reform” can be identified as Deng’s age and Jiang’s, the transition is around 1997, the symbolic boundary is Jiang’s speech given in May 1997, right after Deng’s pass away in February. Jiang’s “three represents” can be further simplified as only one, that is, representing money — which is the root issue of all the problems that China is now suffering. Jiang’s age is mark with gradually merging China’s system into Taiwan’s. There is nothing new there that can be even called as “reform” but totally reverses everything of Deng’s age and all that started from 1949, even the abolished “lift time governingship” was resumed under “core-leadership” name. Jiang disguises his real goal with Deng’s reform though there is nothing in his goal is even nearly close to Deng’s.

By: FOARP

FOARP — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 08:15:20 +0000

@KevinC – Jiang/Hu/Wen are all part of the same apparatus, and given the influence that Jiang is still supposed to have over Chinese politics despite not being in the Politburo. Perhaps it’s time we dropped the idea of any kind of generational transfer in these hand-overs – it’s really the same douchebags who are going to be in power.

No need to bring the ’5000 years’ bit into this, the present system of government dates back to the 1982 constitution and has only been in place since then. Hu/Wen are the only paring to have actually fulfilled a ten-year term together in that time. Jiang had two premiers during his term, with Li Peng getting swapped out for Zhu Rongji at the half-way mark. Of Deng’s premiers, Zhao Ziyang left his post as premier in 1987 when he was promoted to CCP General Secretary, with Li Peng serving out the rest of Zhao’s term. Of course Deng himself never actually occupied any of the highest constitutional spots, instead occupying the extra-constitutional postion of “Paramount Leader”, a position which is now assumed to be conferred by holding the presidency of China, the CCP General Secretary’s position, and the Chair of the Central Military Commission, although this may not be the case.

In the light of the above I am tempted to ask – has Hu Jintao actually been paramount leader during the last ten years, or has Jiang Zemin still held a degree of effective control over that post? Who actually rules China?

In many ways the past ten years have been a typical ‘second term’ for the Jiang administration, with the main emphasis being given to finishing what was begun in the 90′s. In contrast to what you would expect, Hu/Wen did not introduce any new major policies on assuming their positions, nor have they pushed China in a major new direction. The only difference most people can perceive between Hu/Wen and the Jiang administration is the rather greater emphasis given to security and censorship since 2008. It is true that some Jiang acolytes have been brought up on corruption charges, but if there was a contest between a Hu/Wen grouping and a Jiang clique, a simple look at the prospective new politburo members should tell you who won it.

By: kevinc

kevinc — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 07:23:59 +0000

Jiang Zemin was clearly a piece of shit, and despite our hopes, Hu Jintao is the same.
I agree with Richard’s assessment of the hope that came with the arrival of the Hu-Wen regime, and remember it well from 2002. But in retrospect, looking back on the eventual response to SARS that caused some rare optimism… a press conference with international journalists… is that all we get, after 5000 years of culture? In retrospect, that’s nothing to celebrate- in fact, it just looks silly from the present.
So, let’s not share similarly misplaced hopes for the new gang of douchebags taking power next month.

By: Mike Goldthorpe

Mike Goldthorpe — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 23:28:18 +0000

@FOARP
“Party membership is once again fashionable as a way of getting ahead, representing significant ‘buy-in’ to the CCP brand from the populace (why join if you expect them to be gone in ten years?).”
I thought CCP membership was just for the guanxi. Even if you do think they’ll be a spent force in 10 years time, you still want to make sure you get all the benefits available now. Don’t forget, you’ll have that US/Aus/NZ/Canadian passport for when the show does actually go tits up….

By: FOARP

FOARP — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:26:43 +0000

“Hope” is, I think, the biggest difference. In the decade following Tiananmen it genuinely seemed that the CCP was on it’s last legs with ‘reform or die’ being a common sentiment. Instead it was under-estimated, and exploited optimism brought about by economic reforms to imply that political reform might follow. It was also in the CCP’s interest to be seen to be on the path to reform in the run-up to the hand-over of Hong Kong.

Now, the CCP is much more secure in its position, having essentially assurred the loyalty of the armed forces and security services through continually increases in spending. Party membership is once again fashionable as a way of getting ahead, representing significant ‘buy-in’ to the CCP brand from the populace (why join if you expect them to be gone in ten years?). Hope for reform is gone.

By: krizcpec

krizcpec — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:12:25 +0000

Some mistakes in the previous comment: I see no hope that things would change for the better when Xi Jinping becomes the President. After a decade of oppression and censorship, there many people who work for the state apparatuses to maintain stability, both on the Internet and in the real world. There a lot more people depend on the continuation of the censorship policy.

By: krizcpec

krizcpec — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:11:19 +0000

I see no hope that things would change for the better when Xi Jinping becomes the President. After a decade of oppression and censorship, there many people who work for the state apparatuses to maintain stability, both on the Internet and in the real world. There a lot more people depend on the continuation of the censorship policy to continue.

By: FOARP

FOARP — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 08:50:32 +0000

We also shouldn’t forget what actually happened during the Jiang years:

1) Massive crack-down on FLG.

2) Massive crack-down in Xinjiang including the Ghulja incident (allegedly hundreds of unarmed civilians gunned down in cold blood).

3) Insurgency in Xinjiang.

4) The third Taiwan straits crisis.

5) The Hainan island crisis.

Basically there was just as much repressive rock n’ roll going on in the PRC during Jiang’s time, it’s just we had some positive indicators to grab onto as evidence of a general direction that China may or may not have been on. There was also more in the way of genuine accomplishment begun during the Jiang era (The Olympics, WTO, the Three Gorges Dam – like it or loath it – etc.).

By: Raj

Raj — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 07:20:59 +0000

I only hope that Xi, as a Jiang acolyte, will return China to a path of increasing liberties, tolerance for differing opinions and openness.

The problem is that we can’t be sure that Jiang/Jiang’s followers are more open to political reform than the others. He did, after all, benefit from the Tiananmen protest crackdown and has done nothing to even hint that it was wrong/regrettable. We also don’t know if he feels the current media restrictions have gone too far – he could have been calling for them.