“Can we have your liver, then?”

Here’s an intriguing update on what our friends over in the Falun Gong are up to, with special attention on its claims that the CCP is harvesting members’ organs and selling them as if they were toys for WalMart. The blogger comes to grim conclusions.

I would not be surprised if prisoners were being executed in greater numbers – and that Falun Gong practitioners were suffering disproportionately – in response to the perverse incentives created by the Chinese transplant market.

I would also not be surprised if the Chinese government was appalled at the MPS, not out of considerations of humanity, but because those brutal and greedy troglodytes were squandering two unique resources that China wants to exploit scientifically and efficiently – its growing stature in the field of transplant medicine and the biological assets of the thousands of prisoners it executes annually.

Sad world.

He also makes an important point – that just because we think the wheelers are icky doesn’t mean the CCP has carte blanche to slaughter them and sell their innards to the highest bidder.

A certain discomfort and unwillingness by outsiders to take this esoteric cult seriously has complicated responses to Falun Dafa’s most explosive allegation: that the Chinese government is slaughtering Falun Gung detainees and harvesting their organs while they are still alive.

I admit, it would be easier to go to bat for the FLG if they weren’t so fucked-up. But creep&icky or not, they are still human beings.

(Oh, and my headline will only make sense if you’re a Monty Python fan. If you’re not a MP fan, don’t invite me over for dinner.)

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Richard Burger is the author of Behind the Red Door: Sex in China, an exploration of China's sexual revolution and its clash with traditional Chinese values.

The Discussion: 12 Comments

Yes, I do get your Monty Python reference. That is one of my favourite skits and The Meaning of Life is one of my favourite movies!

November 28, 2006 @ 11:13 pm | Comment

Yeah, imprisoning people on baseless charges and slaughtering them to sell their organs is reprehensible, but those religeous people shouldn’t make us so very uncomfortable. Rough moral equivalence there, so it’s kind of a tossup. Really kind of asking for it, aren’t they?

November 29, 2006 @ 1:35 am | Comment

“Really kind of asking for it, aren’t they?”

That is sickening. What did FLG do to deserve being tortured and killed? Have a silent protest in front of Zhongnanhai? Publish a newspaper critical of Beijing? “Rough moral equivalence”? Protests and propaganda versus violent suppression is a tossup? Not enough close.

Your moral reasoning makes me very uncomfortable, but in keeping with the rules of TPD, I won’t suggest any moral equivalences.

November 29, 2006 @ 6:24 am | Comment

I meant, “Not even close.”

November 29, 2006 @ 7:07 am | Comment

1) you are missing the sarcasm sonagi

2) I could only wish that Falun Dafa livers were being soylentified, I’d even take up hard drinking just to get one. But the FLG’s are full of it and they aren’t being harvested for organ harvesting.

November 29, 2006 @ 8:14 am | Comment

Yes, I did miss the sarcasm. I came over after reading rubbish by CCP apologists on another blog, and pork’s message reads like the silly, illogical stuff these guys write.

How do you know that FLG organs AREN’T being harvested? I don’t know that they are, but how can you be sure such claims are baseless. The very fact that the Chinese government recently passed legislation reforming organ transplant regulations is proof that there have been abuses.

November 29, 2006 @ 8:47 am | Comment

Well one because there are enough death penalty inmates in China and executions each year + donations + theft to account for the total number of organs available. People assume erroneously that because there are so many available, they must all naturally come from executed prisoners, particularly of the Falun Dafa variety.

Occam’s razor states that the simplest answer is the best answer and most of you gits have failed to notice the obvious while searching for theories to validate your villifcation of China. The simplest answer, considering the poor funding of Chinese hospitals and the cavalier, nay macabre attitude of many Chinese health professionals, is that the hospitals are simply taking them wherever they find them. Traffic accident fatality, this guy won’t miss his liver. Beaned in the head by a falling brick, his corneas are still good. Heart attack? Maybe his kidneys are ok.

There is a difference between “abuse” and massive organized murder of dissident political groups. What the legislation freely admits to is that China’s criminal justice system is flawed with poor chances of a defendant winning appeals and that it is all to easy to get the death sentence while in the meantime prisons and hospitals profit from miscarriages of justice. What Falun Dafa has been claiming is that the CPC has been proactively running concentration camps explicitly for the purpose of murdering FLG adherents and selling their organs. Two entirely different issues not that I genuinely expect halfwits quacking canards such as yourself to string together a logical chain of thought.

Regarding proof of FLG organs not being harvested or not, well I have none and cannot provide it. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence as they say, but relying on negative proofs such as you are doing is just an indication of how feebleminded and irrational you are.

The best lie is one that contains an element of truth and it is in this manner that Falun Dafa has duped people into even accepting the possibility that they are behing massacred for their organs because China does harvest the organs of condemned criminals who have committed capital offense, which is problematic because of issues with the Chinese criminal justice system. By conflating the two issues, Falun Dafa has managed to plant a grain of doubt in fertile minds such as yours despite having no evidence and hearsay created by themselves. The kilgore report while longwinded ultimately says nothing and merely repeats in a mealy mouthed manner Falun Dafa accusations based on hearsay provided by Falun Dafa.

That people can still believe this scenario, in spite of the investigations done by the state department, HRW, UNHCHR, Hong Kong newspapers, even other Chinese dissidents, that have turned up either nothing or contradictory facts to Falun Dafa’s claims is a testament to the human capacity for self-deception and stupidity.

November 29, 2006 @ 9:39 am | Comment

It is ridiculous to assume that China can only harvest organs from 1680 executions when millions of Chinese die every year naturally.

So the point about 41000 organs coming from 1600 prisoners becomes a moot point.

November 29, 2006 @ 1:05 pm | Comment

Jing, you said:
“China does harvest the organs of condemned criminals who have committed capital offense”
Not really.
“The death penalty is applicable to around 68 offences in the Chinese criminal law, including
several violent crimes, such as robbery, rape and murder. It is also applicable to some non-
violent crimes such as economic crimes (e.g. tax fraud and embezzlement) and drug offences
where the circumstances are ‘serious’.”
“Amnesty International has long-standing concerns about the secrecy surrounding the
application of the death penalty in China. The Chinese government refuses to publish full
national statistics on death sentences and executions. Based on public reports available,
Amnesty International estimated that at least 1,770 people were executed and 3,900 people
were sentenced to death during 2005, although the true figures were believed to be much
higher.
No one who is sentenced to death in China receives a fair trial in line with international
human rights standards. Failings include: lack of prompt access to lawyers, lack of
presumption of innocence, political interference in the judiciary and failure to exclude
evidence extracted through torture.”
From “World Day 2006
The Death Penalty: A Failure of Justice”
http://www.amnestyusa.org/actioncenter/actions/action7574.pdf.

November 30, 2006 @ 4:58 am | Comment

Jing said:

“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence as they say, but relying on negative proofs such as you are doing is just an indication of how feebleminded and irrational you are.”

You misunderstood. I said that I did not know whether or not the FLG allegations were true. I simply asked if you knew/had proof that they were not true.

I was distinguishing between “know” and “believe.” I personally do not believe FLG’s claims. I do believe that some FLG prisoners have been executed and had their organs harvested, like other prisoners, but I do not believe that there is any large-scale organized program to kill FLG members specifically to get their organs.

“That people can still believe this scenario, in spite of the investigations done by the state department, HRW, UNHCHR, Hong Kong newspapers, even other Chinese dissidents, that have turned up either nothing or contradictory facts to Falun Dafa’s claims is a testament to the human capacity for self-deception and stupidity.”

It is a testament to the PRC’s poor human rights record that people are willing to believe the Chinese government is capable of something so awful.

November 30, 2006 @ 6:33 am | Comment

Again, it is ridiculous to assume that China can only harvest organs from 1680 executions when millions of Chinese die every year naturally, which pretty much shoots a hole through the central argument of that paper.

And furthermore, what Sonagi said is true–China does have an image problem. But that does not mean that China should let such a virulent cult spread within its society. It should try harder to show the rest of the world just how fucked up, dogmatic, and fanatical these FLGers are.

December 1, 2006 @ 1:50 pm | Comment

The problem, T_co, is that after Beijing cracked down so violently on FLG, the world is not going to listen.

BTW, are there any non-Chinese sources to substantiate that FLG was widespread and some kind of danger or threat to Chinese society?

We have our religious cults in America, too, but apart from murder-suicides and botched FBI raids, they do not cause much trouble.

December 2, 2006 @ 10:44 am | Comment

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