Guangzhou pet dogs beaten to death by government teams

Posted by Martyn

Last week in Guangzhou I heard from friends that government dog-confiscation teams were turning up at veterinary clinics, slaughtering all the sick dogs on the premises and taking away their bodies to be destroyed. I also heard that the confiscation teams were rounding up unregistered dogs in parks and killing them on the spot, usually beating the dogs to death in front of their distraught owners, before throwing the bloody and mutilated bodies into the back of a truck. It’s not surprising, therefore, that some owners fainted from the shock. The confiscation teams simply moved onto their next victim.

This barbaric new crackdown has caused many shocked Guangzhou dog owners to send desperate emails to Hong Kong-based charity Animals Asia:

Much to our horror, Animals Asia has recently received hysterical letters from distraught Chinese pet lovers across China who are terrified by some Government departments’ new clampdown on unregistered pet dogs. Dogs are being brutally confiscated, in some cases beaten to death in front of their owners, or taken to Government pounds and killed in horrendous ways.

Outrageously, some Government officials are enticing people to report on their neighbours who have unregistered pet dogs, by offering to pay them 10% of the fine. Dog killing teams are patrolling the cities looking for unregistered dogs and we have heard that there is an official “Dog Extinction Movement”.

This disgusting, pathetic and practically useless policy is the Guangzhou government’s wholly misguided method of combating rabies, which, last year, claimed 241 lives out of a Guangdong population of 100 million. Perhaps someone should quietly inform the fools in the Guangzhou government that, in addition to dogs, cats, ferrets, raccoons, bats, foxes, squirrels, rabbits and all rodents can carry rabies. Many of these animals end up in Guangdong kitchens. Although there is no known cure, rabies can be easily prevented by vaccination of both humans and animals, i.e. a decent public health policy and pet vaccination requirements. The mass culling of pet dogs will achieve next to nothing.

Unlike Chongqing and Shenzhen that have scrapped registration fees altogether, Guangzhou continues to charge 10,000 yuan (US$1,235) for the first year and 6,000 yuan (US$741) every year thereafter. It also doesn’t allow large or certain breeds of perceived “dangerous” dogs to be registered. Dogs that exceed a certain height or look similar to certain “dangerous” breeds are taken from their owners and killed.

The UK Independent newspaper also reports this barbaric new crackdown and Animals Asia has initiated a letter writing campaign. Mainland China has an estimated 150 million pet dogs. This is a conservative figure but how many will be beaten to death in front of their owners before China brings its pet laws up to the standards of the rest of the civilized world? As a resident of Guangzhou and owner of three dogs, I shall also be starting my own letter writing campaign to make sure the rest of the world knows exactly what’s going on here.

Hat-tip to HK Dave at Simonworld for the Independent article.

The Discussion: 130 Comments

So what if those raby-dogs are killed? If you don’t kill them, they will kill you!

I bet if they don’t kill those dogs, you will say something like “Look! They are letting raby-dogs running wild, the CCP does not care about human lives!”

So basically, whatever we do, you always find a spin to attack, just like how the liberals attack conservatives and the conservatives attack liberals in America.

I remember a philosopher once said “90% of the arguments in this world are arguments about words”.

What about the US and UK when it killed massive numbers of cows in farmlands to prevent the spread of the mad cow disease? What about the innocent HUMANS killed by American troops in Iraq? How come you don’t wanna talk about that, but about dogs?

Let me tell you something, I f**** eat dogs! Yea, that’s right. In my old village, we raise a dog, then we kill it and cook it in soy sauce and chilli, and it’s delicious, and I certainly miss that taste!

October 3, 2005 @ 1:24 pm | Comment

Wish there was a letter writing campaign providing sample letters to send to the regime concerning the way they treat human beings….

October 3, 2005 @ 1:28 pm | Comment

FlierGuy, when someone owns a dog, it’s his PROPERTY and usually it becomes his FRIEND. Most civilized countries wouldn’t destroy it’s citizens’ property and wouldn’t kill their friends. And I’m not surprised you eat dogs.

October 3, 2005 @ 3:10 pm | Comment

I’m pretty sure “Flierguy” is an old familiar face, and I’ll bet money that “face” isn’t Chinese. His email address links to Google.

October 3, 2005 @ 3:31 pm | Comment

I personally don’t like dogs, neither would I want a dog as a friend. Why do some people tend to equalize animals, such as dogs, with real people?

October 3, 2005 @ 4:17 pm | Comment

You know, I would have great respect for any Chinese person if they admitted that killing dogs in front of their owners in an effort to prevent rabies was wrong. But no, some idiot off from Kindergarden this week wants to talk about soldiers and another wonders why some people equate animals with people. Pathetic!

It isn’t some people who care for animals, it is every civized country on the planet. It has long been said that a country’s level of civilization can be measured by how humanely they treat their animals. China scores very low marks here, but then again, China doesn’t treat their people much better either.

Is this thread going to receive just one comment from a Chinese person admitting that they are embarrassed by the actions mentioned in the post? Or are we going to receive coment after comment dodging the issue and talking about anything OTHER than the points?

Also, preventing rabies by killing dogs is like trying to put out a fire by spitting on it.

October 3, 2005 @ 6:39 pm | Comment

I hope the letter campaign also spreads the news to all the newspapers in the world. After all, it was CHINESE people, not foreigners, who wrote the original letters to the animal charity. Any insults you want to fling at foreigners, you should first fling at the residents of Guangzhuo first.

October 3, 2005 @ 6:42 pm | Comment

Well, once again the French show that they if there’s any issue that merits condemnation and scorn, they want to be part of it:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005450117,00.html

October 3, 2005 @ 7:46 pm | Comment

Keir, I’m not sure it’s fair to blame “the french” for that sickening practice. Maybe. But maybe they are trying to stop it; the article doesn’t say what their position has been. There are cruel assholes in every society I’m afraid. In Martyn’s post above, the cruelty comes directly from the government. I’m not sure if that’s the case in your example. I certainly hope not.

October 3, 2005 @ 7:52 pm | Comment

How do you think your fried chickens and juicy steaks come about? They sing a song to the animals while giving them anesthetic?

Humans are cruel, you honestly believe there’s a difference in beating a dog on the streets to death and cutting off the heads of chickens in a Purdue factory?

I eat dogs, I eat chickens, I eat steaks, I they they are tasty, and I really don’t care how those animals are killed. And I’m sure you love chickens and steaks too, so why don’t you quit being such a hypocrite and condemn about cruel to animals one day and bite on your new york steaks the next.

You make me want to puke.

October 3, 2005 @ 8:13 pm | Comment

I think it is very very civilized to beat dogs to death with clubs, and I think it is very barbaric to pretend to love animals while eating them ferociously at bbq’s.

October 3, 2005 @ 8:14 pm | Comment

These are pets that are sources of huge joy to people, like children. Have you ever owned a pet? I’d love to know if you’d say the same twisted things if someone beat your pet to death.

October 3, 2005 @ 8:32 pm | Comment

How childish and pathetic you are. Your ignorance is also comparable to that of a three-year-old.

Animal husbandry is generally very humane, halal and koshe methods of slaughter being somewhat less than humane. How can anyone other than a complete idiot compare animals humanely killed in slaughterhouses to pet dogs being beaten to death with sticks on behalf of a governemnt?

Also, we are talking about domesticated pets you fool, not animals bred for food. Big difference.

I am enjoying reading the pathetic lengths that some people to go to and the bs some people will come out with in response to this post. It would be more entertaining if it wasn’t quite so sad.

October 3, 2005 @ 8:32 pm | Comment

How can anyone other than a complete idiot compare animals humanely killed in slaughterhouses to pet dogs being beaten to death with sticks on behalf of a governemnt?

There’s a reason they are called slaughterhouses and not vacation homes. Humane? Do you know how chickens are killed? There’s a big circular rotating machine with automatic cutters spinning on it, then the chickens are placed on a rotating wheel below that machine, the wheel spins at the same rate as the circular machine, and you can get about 30 chickens in one spin. I think this was 10 years ago, now I think you can get about 50 in one spin.

I guess I can say “what is your fuss about American being humanely beheaded in Iraq, while there are dogs being killed on the streets!”

And domesticated pets? I’m sorry, but did you ask the pets if they want to be domesticated? And why should I accept all your “definitions” and “concepts”? What the hell are “domesticated pets”? So we decide we are too lonely so we pick a few animals, and say, “you get to play with me until I get bored, the rest of you, go get cooked.”

October 3, 2005 @ 8:37 pm | Comment

Kind of an interesting thread, despite all the abuse. I think Chinese people are more tolerant of cruelty, to be honest. In Henan, I saw women running over to a car crash laughing and chatting about whether the victim was dead. I almost fell off my bike I was shocked. The ’empathy’ gene seems to have gone missing in China, as the responses in the thread indicate. There is quite genuinely no feeling of compassion for the dogs or the owners. But Brian is talking nonsense about ‘humane’ methods of animal husbandry. He should read ‘Fast Food Nation’, a book which will clear up any notion that animals are killed ‘humanely’, whatever that means. I think the Chinese are right to speak of hypocrisy there.

October 3, 2005 @ 8:44 pm | Comment

I have been watching this for a long time, here are some of my classification of some of the posters here:

Keir, Brian, Ivan: These 3 basically follow the principle of “We support whatever the enemy opposes, and we oppose whatever the enemy supports.” Replace enemy with China. They have nothing but feces coming out of their mouth when talking about China; most of the time they try to separate the CCP from the people, occasionally they mingle the two and attack China as a whole. They have basically exited themselves from the realm of human beings, and if this was during Mao’s anti-Rightists campaign, their entire families would be spending their lives in a Labor Camp somewhere.

Richard, Martyn, Other Lisa: These 3 often attack China as well, but do so more sensibly, and are at least open to human forms of reasoning and communication, and they genuinely hate only the CCP but have nothing against the Chinese people or culture. In Mao’s time, They would be considered people who can be “won over” with a bit of efforts.

No offense is meant to anyone, but just my observations.

October 3, 2005 @ 8:57 pm | Comment

there are countless differences between chickens and dogs you **&$wits. the fact you don’t know this is absurd.

dogs are intelligent, and they display affection, loyalty and love for people, much like horses and some other animals that civilized places don’t consider “food”, for very obvious reasons.

my theory: mainland chinese people have no souls anymore, and their only view of the world is as has been beaten (literally) into them. they have become a bunch of robotic slaves of their leaders- and these “leaders” have won. no matter how much they are abused wronged and affliced by the party, they still excuse it. like a battered wife defending her husband to the police.

October 3, 2005 @ 9:17 pm | Comment

there are countless differences between chickens and dogs you **&$wits. the fact you don’t know this is absurd.

dogs are intelligent, and they display affection, loyalty and love for people, much like horses and some other animals that civilized places don’t consider “food”, for very obvious reasons.

Oh I see, so your argument boils down to, “There are different classes of animals in this world, some of them make us humans feel because they display intelligence and affection, so let’s make them our pets and keep us entertained! The rest of, let’s kill them and eat them! Yay!!”

And you are accusing me of having no soul?

October 3, 2005 @ 9:20 pm | Comment

But if every Chinese were like you, and no foreigners should say a word against neither CCP or the Chinese people and our culture in general, how do we find the flaws within ourselves, correct them and move forward?
Were you really back to the red times which allow your rabies-dog-attacks, you probably wouldn’t get any better treatment than those pet dogs. Maybe you need some self-criticism too.
Let me tell you, Chinese people do have empathy, but sometimes this empathy is only too limited. In this case, we restricted our empathy with animals sharing the same world with us, in other cases; we even limited our empathy towards people outside our family or friends.
Our culture tells us that there is difference in love, the closer to whom your are related to, the stronger your love should be. We learned the idea of universal love and right almost ninety years ago, but we seldom practice them. And we haven’t noticed that this “diversity in love” resulted in our indifference towards people we are unfamiliar with, resulted in the breeding ground for brutality.

Yes, if brutality does not bother me, why should I care?
But how do you know you, your family and those who seen as your family will not be beaten to death the next minute. Are you going to be happy if people around you snort their nose as if they are watching a funny drama?
I feel rather ashamed that for this indifference fifty years ago we were never able to unite together against brutality that was crashing us, and still now, fifty years later we still argues for the justification of this ill-element of our national character.

Maybe we all need to think about it.

October 3, 2005 @ 9:31 pm | Comment

Fishling, I agree with you that Chinese people are less empathetic, but this “dog issue” is not a good way to make that case.

October 3, 2005 @ 9:36 pm | Comment

Remember, it’s never a good thing for your eyes to get used to brutality.
Don’t be the sleeping dog and especially don’t be the sleeping dog that lies.

October 3, 2005 @ 9:39 pm | Comment

No offense taken. When I’m attacked by fascist apologists who get off on state oppression, invasion and threats towards neighbouring countries and the drive to further limit individual human rights, I feel particularly satisfied by your oprobrium. I’m also gratified to be named along with Ivan whose comments usually have me cheering. (I’m not sure, but I think Brian implied I study at a kindergarten…)
Richard, Martyn and Other Lisa in would probably have been “won over” by your ‘arguments’ with “a bit of effort” typical of Mao and the CCP- brutalised and/or raped in a Chinese gulag before being worked nearly to death in a field in the middle of nowhere, knowing their families are suffering terribly with no hope of mercy or human compassion. You are aware of modern Chinese history post 1949, are you not?
By the way Richard, I agree my comments about the French were not fair or called for. However, I don’t feel they are attacked strongly enough in this forum. Knowing the old alliances between Russia, Ireland and France (forget that aberration in 1812), I’m not as surprised as I might that Ivan doesn’t do his bit.

October 3, 2005 @ 9:57 pm | Comment

brutalised and/or raped in a Chinese gulag before being worked nearly to death in a field in the middle of nowhere, knowing their families are suffering terribly with no hope of mercy or human compassion.

Yes that’s very effective against elements like you.

October 3, 2005 @ 10:11 pm | Comment

By the way, when I was young I worked as a logistics assistant in a LaoGai camp in China’s northeast, and we had a very fresh woman there. I was too young to dare to touch her, but now I regret that decision.

October 3, 2005 @ 10:16 pm | Comment

It’s incredible to see the cultural divide here.

The Chinese readers are completely unable to understand what’s going on and why people are angry towards what the guangdong govt are doing. It is like they are lacking some empathy gene, some way of sypathizing with others.

Therefore because they can’t understand they get frustrated and lash out. Shouting ‘hypocracy!’ in order to try and make themselves feel better about themselves.

The Chinese are a very cruel people to each other – always have been – look at your history. Therefore it doesn’t surprise me to read these comments wondering how and why people can care so much about animals when Chinese peope care so little about people.

October 3, 2005 @ 11:00 pm | Comment

this seems like interesting discussion, and i guess we more or less agree that animals need to be treated better.

so what about
1. using dog as mine-sweepers, or to move terrorist bombs?
2. how do those who keep pigs as pet feel about us pork eaters?

October 3, 2005 @ 11:28 pm | Comment

p.s. there seem to be fake people everywhere. lao-wai faking chinese, chinese faking laowai.

and i am faking a ghost dead 2500 years ago.

October 3, 2005 @ 11:33 pm | Comment

Brian, I think you are just feigning a sense of “civility” when talking to Chinese people. It’s like when I talk to some Africans, I put on my “moral” hat and say “how barbaric that you eat each other in Ethiopia! Oh my god! We certainly would not do that!”, just to feel superior about myself.

So next time, you tell me “It’s wrong to mistreat animals.” I’ll say “No No, you see, it is right to mistreat animals”. If you say “You have no empathy gene.”. I say “No No, empathy gene is unhealthy like cancer, superior people like do not have it.” If you say “It’s wrong to kill other human beings.” I will say “No No, it’s right to kill other human beings, your culture is too behind to see that, give it 1000 years and you’ll agree with me.”

October 3, 2005 @ 11:34 pm | Comment

Some of you guys are posting what sounds like screaming when I read it. And I don’t just mean IEDE.

Fast Food Nation is definitely in order, as far as comparing beating dogs to death vs. an abattoire. Both are disgusting. I love my dog, and I love steak. I have no problem living with the contradictions in this that are probably best pointed out by a strict utilitarian ethicist like Peter Singer. Not even Peter Singer lives up to all the ethical ideas of Peter Singer.

As a dog owner however – actually I’ve had several different kinds of pets – I’d reiterate Richard’s point that the dog belongs to someone. In a legal sense, they are property and other people can’t just club them for any ol’ reason. However, the article does point out these dogs are unregistered. Beating a dog in front of someone in a park is beyond the pale, but not registering a dog – just like walking them without a leash in the city – is illegal for a good reason. It’s socially irresponsible. The punishment doesn’t fit the crime, but technically there is a crime here – or rather an infraction.

Something I do think was missing for a bit in modern China was not a gene, but the concept of a “pet” – or at least that concept was narrowed to only include songbirds. A pet is an animal that is accepted into a family and considered a member of that family.

Pets serve a useful purpose in the sense that they engender empathy for non-human creatures. No, it doesn’t usually go so far as to inspire some vegan reverie, but it does get people to begin thinking about the moral consequences of killing non-humans, regardless of why.

I don’t think its appropriate or fair to say something like “The empathy gene seems to have gone missing in China”, especially when you put it in terms of genetics. That, simply, is racist. Don’t do that. That’s as unfair and creepy sounding as IEDE’s references to who would get purged in the Cultural Revolution. Ironically, it was during the Cultural Revolution period that alot of animal extermination took place, according to some Chinese friends, including dogs and sparrows.

IEDE, please stop immediately labeling people you disagree with as China bashers. Even if it were true, do you think yelling at them is going to change their mind? Likewise I think we need to reconsider the appropriateness of saying things like the genetics comment and “It has long been said that a country’s level of civilization can be measured by how humanely they treat their animals. China scores very low marks here, but then again, China doesn’t treat their people much better either.” Name calling like “fascist apologist” doesn’t get us anywhere either.

Instead of making blanket generalizations about either other posters views or the entire 1.3 billion people of China, why don’t we just stick to what it is we really know? There were SOME women who laughed at a car accident. There are SOME people beating dogs with sticks. There are SOME comments made on this blog that are negative about China. The others are negative about the U.S. ;-). Every time “some” becomes “all”, we’re just descending into a food fight.

Y’all, this thread is just depressing me. Can’t we all just get along?

October 4, 2005 @ 12:05 am | Comment

Er, well, I think Fishling is Chinese yes? And I have Chinese friends who love animals and who would be appalled by this story. That may not be reflective of the general attitude in the culture, but claiming that ALL Chinese people are cruel or unfeeling is really not fair or accurate.

As for Ethiopians “eating people” – ummm, WHAT?!?!? That’s just really wacky…

As for whether I’m the sort who could be “convinced” in Mao’s day…well, who the hell knows? I was in China for the first time shortly after the Cu1tur@al Revo1ution, and that did not give me an overall good impression about what Mao did for his country. Yet I remain hopeful. I keep going back to China, after all. I hope for the best.

October 4, 2005 @ 12:10 am | Comment

Chinazombie wrote:
——————
there are countless differences between chickens and dogs you **&$wits. the fact you don’t know this is absurd.

dogs are intelligent, and they display affection, loyalty and love for people, much like horses and some other animals that civilized places don’t consider “food”, for very obvious reasons
——————

Intelligence and social feelings are the criteria? Pigs are intelligent social animals, and smarter than dogs. I wonder if you eat pigs?

October 4, 2005 @ 12:34 am | Comment

I try not to eat pigs, actually, for that very reason. It’s hard to avoid in China. I’ve thought morally I should become a vegetarian and have never been able to do it (I need the protein and beans don’t agree with me!). So the only thing I’ve been able to come up with so far is harm reduction. No veal (ick!), more fish, free-range when I can get it. I don’t do as good a job with this as I should either. But I guess it’s a start.

October 4, 2005 @ 12:38 am | Comment

Dave, just to clarify, I was obviously using ’empathy gene’ in a figurative sense, since empathy is not a construct which can be boiled down to a gene. (Unless I’m wrong, and emotions has been attributed to genes?)
IEDED, I wonder why you are participating in the thread, since your antagonism is off the chart. Although you are not the only being unhelpfully emotional.
Brian, as a European, a continent which exported two world wars in 25 years and caused countless millions of deaths, I think it’s a bit unfair to single out the Chinese for cruelt. The unusual aspect of Chinese cruelty is that’s it’s been more frequent within their borders than without. Yet domestic outrages are underplayed compared to the treatment of the Japanese (who admittedly, behaved like sick psychos during ww2)

October 4, 2005 @ 12:43 am | Comment

No matter how you tell it, it’s brutal to beat pets to death in front of their owners. It should be stopped. But I don’t object in principle the killing of unlicensed dogs.

On the other hand, why reserve such emotional response for dogs? The only reason that dogs seems more intelligent and friendly than a cow is that they are bred that way. I am sure if you select the human-friendly trait in breeding cows, you will end up in a few generations with cows who can play fetch

We meat eaters are all hypocrites, really; we all live in willful ignorance about the slaughter factories that supply our dinner table.

Though I do wonder what percentage of the story is true and how much is animal activist hype. Anyone living in Guangzhou?

October 4, 2005 @ 12:45 am | Comment

I Eat dogs Everyday wrote:

“By the way, when I was young I worked as a logistics assistant in a LaoGai camp in China’s northeast, and we had a very fresh woman there. I was too young to dare to touch her, but now I regret that decision.”

For new posters, this is a good example of “MAJ scat”, the sign of a certain wannabe-resident troll.

Best response is no response.

October 4, 2005 @ 12:49 am | Comment

Martyn, the person who posted this article, lives in Guangzhou.

I have a cat on my lap as I type this, by the way…

October 4, 2005 @ 12:49 am | Comment

It’s not just in China: try South Korea —> warning that some of these images are very distressing.

October 4, 2005 @ 12:57 am | Comment

Shanghai…

Ayup.

October 4, 2005 @ 12:58 am | Comment

Oh well. I thought those who experienced the great leap forward, the culture revolution and democracy wall would be more aware and alert to brutalities, for they still have their memories in the dark remaining. I was wrong. The youth of China today, like me, seem to have more compassion and senses of shame, passion for rights and disgust for killings and abuse.
Therefore, those of you criticizing china and Chinese people in general should be able to distinguish who is now standing for China, who is now speaking for China, who is the real China and who is the future of China.
Those of us who, as Chinese, defending China or criticizing alike , should be responsible for our words ourselves, knowing that one single “me” does not represent the whole country and people, and what we can do is really to protect the image of our country, but not spoil it.

October 4, 2005 @ 12:59 am | Comment

“We meat eaters are all hypocrites, really”

Or maybe we are born into a highly-evolved food chain which we did not design.

October 4, 2005 @ 1:02 am | Comment

Fishling, I hope you and those who think like you are in the majority.

October 4, 2005 @ 1:05 am | Comment

China has a certain numbness about it when it comes to empathy, and while the ounger genration might not suffer from it so much, most older Chinese who lived through the CR and the ‘bad years’ have trouble empathising with people let alone animals.

I remember not so long ago when I saw civits being thrown into sacks and hurled around the place, before being drowned or bioled alive. It wasn’t a pretty sight.

October 4, 2005 @ 2:10 am | Comment

I read Fast Food Nation and will never walk into a McDonald’s again.

As to the cruelty of the Chinese – I’m not convinced many, many other cultures aren’t just as bad in this area. I’ve seen plenty of cruelty to animals in America and elsewhere. I’ve read stories of Hong Kong tai tais who treat their amahs worse than animals, beating them with hairbrushes and the like. But this case, if true, stands apart in that it seems like legislated cruelty, ordered and carried out by by the police, as opposed to a cruel deranged animal torturer.

October 4, 2005 @ 3:00 am | Comment

Three points:

First, this post has nothing to do with foreigners. The outrage at this government action is entirely from local Guangzhou pet owners. I know most, if not all, of the dog-owners on my estate and they are all petrified.

Second, are people commiting an offence when the govt sets the license fee and yearly fee above and beyond what the average citizen can afford to pay? Again, these are not my words but those of the scores of local Guangzhou pet owners that I’ve spoken to.

Third, pet dogs are wholly different from those dogs bred for human consumption (as the Koreans went to great pains to explain to the world during the 2002 World Cup). Same goes for all animals bred foir consumption. All talk of eating pork etc is completely irrelevant to laws applicable to household pets as far as I’m concerned.

October 4, 2005 @ 3:24 am | Comment

Fishling wrote:
================
Our culture tells us that there is difference in love, the closer to whom your are related to, the stronger your love should be. We learned the idea of universal love and right almost ninety years ago, but we seldom practice them. And we haven’t noticed that this “diversity in love” resulted in our indifference towards people we are unfamiliar with, resulted in the breeding ground for brutality.
=================

What do you know about ‘our culture’? Universal love is nothing new to the Chinese. It’s one of the central idea of Mohism. To say something like “we learned the idea of universal love and right almost ninety years ago” just show how ignorant you are about “our culture”.

Of course, Confucians did reject universal love, becasue it’s just human nature to care more about people you know well than a stranger. Can you honestly say that you love me as much as you love your father? and if you have the money to either save 2 lives in Africa or save your father, will you choose to let your father die and save 2 African strangers?

If both of your answers was ‘yes’, then I’m impressed. If you can carry it out, I’ll be more impressed. But don’t expect everyone to do the same — even Peter Singer chose to keep his mother alive when she got Alzheimer’s disease, rather than let her die and use those money to save poor children’s lives.

I’m not arguing against universal love, what I’m saying is the Confucian idea of partial love does have a solid ground and should not simply be dismissed. And of course partial love doesn’t imply cruelty, you may love a stranger less than your father, but it doesn’t follow you don’t love the stranger at all.

In the case of animal cruelty, Chinese thoughts were usually against it. Many Confucians denounce animal cruelty, following Mencius who famously said “When it comes to animals, if the Superior Man has seen them while alive, he cannot stand to watch them die. If he hears their screams, he cannot stand to eat their meat.” Nature loving Taoists don’t like animal cruelty either. As for Chinese sects of Buddhism, Chinese Buddhist monks are usually serious about vegetarianism, while most Japanese and Korean monks do not practice it (according to Wikipedia).

So, instead of bashing Chinese culture, and labelling “universal love” or “animal welfare” as Western ideas alien to the Chinese, it’s better if people understand those ideas are very much native to China and realise the chaos of 20th century (especially the CR) had a huge degrading impact on the Chinese moral standards.

Also, given the recent rise of cultural conservatism in China, it’s counterproductive to present the question of animal cruelty as a West vs China problem.

October 4, 2005 @ 4:17 am | Comment

Richard, I have to correct you about the treatment of Philippino maids in HK: As far as I am aware, the cases of horrific treatment were overwhelmingly carried out by ethnic Chinese NOT by Caucasians. In my experience, maids would far rather work for Whites than Chinese for that reason. Most Whites would be embarrassed to force their maids to sleep on the balcony or in the bath, as the Chinese mother of one my HK friends does!

October 4, 2005 @ 4:22 am | Comment

I broadly agree RS, particularly the final paragraph. Thanks for bringing some quality to this thread.

October 4, 2005 @ 4:25 am | Comment

For comparison:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/en/Outlook/04Oct2005_out10.php

October 4, 2005 @ 4:40 am | Comment

I lived in HK for nearly two years, and all the stories I read were about local HK women terrorizing the amahs. I was told by locals that this was amazingly common, and that the amah-beaters were from HK and not the Mainland. But who know?

October 4, 2005 @ 4:48 am | Comment

Davesgonetochina:
I’m not labelling someone a “fascist apologist” out of ignorance; I know the person I’m referring to and, after some time arguing with him only to have my points ignored in favour of further advancing his rightwing ideas, I know that there’s no hope in hell of advancing any debate as long as trolls such as himself continue to invade this forum.

October 4, 2005 @ 5:47 am | Comment

My comment got deleted or lost in the ether.

How about a word or two of criticism for the people who bring yet another intestinal tract into a country that doesn’t even have enough air for everybody to breathe, much less enough shit-free sidewalks?

The beautiful dogs I’ve seen in Shenzhen (along with the ugly ones) are condemned to live in tiny spaces indoors, and NEVER run free in their lifetimes! Sure, protest the dog-beatings, but spare a word for the cruel owners, too.

October 4, 2005 @ 7:07 am | Comment

Sam has a good point.

When I lived on the North side of Chengdu, the people below us had a dalmation pup and not only did they not know how to feed it properly, but they left the poor thing locked up on the roof of the building 22 hours out of the day.

The woman thought he was the cutest little puppy and he was, but she had no idea just how big he was going to get and I didn’t want to ruin the surprise.

October 4, 2005 @ 7:46 am | Comment

Brian shows no respect. Can’ t TPK implement some kind of registration system, to avoid getting spammed by trolls and aggressive nutcases, like for example “Brian”? I have asked the simple question: why do people equalize animals with real people? I don’ t like dogs, neither do I like any pet. I believe animals should only be used by people to eat or to make clothes. I believe my position is clear. You don’ t have to agree with me, but at least have the courtesy to show respect, “Brian”. Also those who like animals a lot, I recommend you don’ t visit Guangdong’s markets or a traditional Chinese restaurant where you can pick living fish or seafood as dinner. I agree with someone who stated this is a cultural divide.

October 4, 2005 @ 7:49 am | Comment

beating maids is probably a habit that Hong Kong picked up from foreigners.

Next Time I’m in California and and I don’t see a white beating up her Meixcan housekeeper, remind me to take a picture for my album of one off odities. The same goes for the next time I’m in Europe and I see an easter European girl who was hired asa maid and who actauly gets a job where sex isn’t considered a perk by her boss.

Sorry, but it can’t be a coninsidence that the abuse of domestic servents is by colonial Chinese and not mainland Chinese, especially since it’s not comon where there aren’t foreigners.

October 4, 2005 @ 8:06 am | Comment

My first reaction on reading this story is that it sounds like poorly written media hype that will probably turn out to be far from the truth. I’m disappointed that no one here seems to be questioning the credibility of the story.

On the other hand … perhaps it just means that, deep down, I still think that the Chinese are too civilised for this kind of behaviour. I guess that means that if I’m wrong … then it’s a pretty stinging indictment on that nation.

October 4, 2005 @ 8:56 am | Comment

Angry, you’re full of hot air. People who beat their hispanic (or any other) maids in California go to jail. Can’t speak for the Eastern Europeans.

October 4, 2005 @ 8:59 am | Comment

Are you a dog person?

Are you a dog person? I am. Nothing more wonderful than having a dog, they are such a pleasure, and bring a lot of fun to your life. That’s why today I am a little bit shocked at some news from China that would have any dog lover up in arms. My …

October 4, 2005 @ 10:48 am | Comment

I think there’s a time warp here, and also the presence of very facistic minded people on both sides of the debate.

I cant help think that up to 1967, the blacks in the West, were still treated as slaves by the white, with de-humane degradation of the human spirit such as segregation of aces on the buses, and schools (affecting children!).
Those abuses of another intelligent human, albeit the abusers may not think themas intelligent as their beloved pets.
If you read “Gone with the Wind” Scarlet, beat the black maid, not once, but seems like a pattern of logitudinal abuse. That was a mere 200 year ago.
And as a Chinese, I may be bias to pick up the issue of Chinese railroad workers in America and Canada were treated much like animals, with no rights to bring their wives, to jon them even after they got a little wealthy, and had stopped working as track layers, only because of the “anti-Chinese” immigration laws of the time. I wish I could remember the name of the museum I read the article on one of their plaque, retelling the stories of how the Railroad workers were housed in boxes of 4 feet by 2 feet, o that the workers never were able to sleep straight. I know that was 200 years ago. But if you think about the fact that human progress is evolutionary, a time frame of 200 years out of 7000 years of recoded history, isn’t that long ago.
I am terribly disappointed of some westerners living in my country having this deep-seated predjudice of Chinese, as evident of their very thought that some how the Chinese are less humane, etc.
I feel sorry that they never read the Chinese literature, especially poems. If only they could read Chinese, they would kno how a culture that can produce such poems of exquisite beauty of romantic love, siblings love, parental love, filial piety, sacrifice for the society, etc as their themes, could be regarded as less than able to empathise than the Westerner. But I dont think I could blame their ignorance. There is so little translation of poems, unlike literature like Water Margin, Dreams of the Red Chmaber, etc, because poems from CHinese just simply cannot be translated to any foregin language, because the total essence is lost in translation, because of the cultural differences in semiotic symbols used in the diffrent languages.
But even a few dozens that were translated will have revealed to the ignorant, that they should hold their tongue, before proceeding further to reveal their racism so eloquently by making pathetically ignaorant staments like some of those made in this forum.

October 4, 2005 @ 10:48 am | Comment

Of course I am not mentioning our culture as a whole, one that is so
broad. I am just an attentive student who is trying to learn. I am glad
that you have pointed out that Confucianism did not accept universal
love. However, one should also note that the non-acceptance or rejection
of universal love is not something that can be seen as an element of
human nature, rather it is a trait taught in and embedded in a given
culture. I agree with your first point that I do love my father more that
I love a stranger. However, Confucius says that one should love ones
father more than one loves ones mother and that one should love ones
grandfather more than one should love your mother. Why? Because you bear
your father’s name. And in Chinese culture the primary significance
given to the name is a key principle. So here you are mixing humans
natural emotional closeness with a closeness based on name. The latter is
Confucian-based cultural trait. So it’s a bit ridiculous for me to see that you would raise the example of loving one’s dad more than a stranger as an example to support a Confucius element as human nature.

Two, I never never said Confucius, Daoism, or Buddhism or whatever ever argues for the cruelty towards animals. One thing I know about Confucius is that all people shall be ranked, and shall be put in different status, higher or lower in the society. Since all people are different in pre-scribe status and the treatment goes along with the status is different, then I will not be surprised to see if Confucius thinks dog’s life is cheaper than human’s life. This is another issue and I am not going to talk more here.

But I can agree with you, of course, if you have to emphasize that Confucius is against cruelty towards animals. But one thing I should remind you is that one thought is never as influential to people’s lives as the cultural structure… Confucius morality has penetrated in the “family” structure only after Ming dynasty, but it’s more about principles about how people should behave when they live in the same family than the doctrines of saints. Not many Chinese people in the old times can quote a sentence said by a Confucius student as fluently or as you do. In fact, most people were controlled by the strong patriotically family, and family is the place where they can get resources, where they can be identified and be protected most of the times and is the place that people were dedicated to and were responsible for. So beyond the “family” or family name, there are not many people or things to care about. That’s why I said there is a culture root to the indifference. My grandmother, when she was young, did not have a chance to touch the four classics, but she told me that from the older generation she heard the famous idiom “everybody cleans the snow in front of their door, and care not about the ice on other’s roof”

Here I only said that indifference is not good, especially the indifference towards cruelty. But never did I neglect the culture merits. I am proud of my country and culture, and more proudly, I am a student of Chinese culture and society. I do not still, know MUCH about out culture, but I know about my culture, if not the whole of it, but certainly more than someone here does.

Several years ago there was news commenting on the success of the economy of Singapore and south Korea arguing that it is because they applied neo-Confucianism into their tactics. Then economic crisis came, however neo-Confucianism was good could not save Korean economy. And some ill-minded news advocating the goodness of Confucius suddenly disappeared.

The thing is facing the flaws of one’s culture is not a disgrace, rather, defending it without knowing it, or knowing it without facing it is a SHAME. Confucius said there must be my teacher among three or more people, so why so disgraceful about admitting we learned something from another cultures

October 4, 2005 @ 10:52 am | Comment

Chinese Dog-Confiscation Teams Beating Dogs to Death

Chinese dog-confiscation teams are beating dogs to death in front of their owners in Guangzhou province.

October 4, 2005 @ 10:54 am | Comment

i agree with every RS said.

i want also to add that, the current situation is also a result of bad bureaucracy, bad implementation, and reletively poor income, typical of developing countries.

i have argued (in simonworld) that there is some good logic in requiring a threshold license fee for owning a pet, because i am aware of the problem Gordon saw in Chengdu. Owning pet is a luxury in developing countries.

October 4, 2005 @ 11:08 am | Comment

After being beaten to death, are these dead animals being taken to fast food restaurants? If not then this is an appalling waste of food resources. This is important information that was withheld from the original post in order to arouse sympathy. Such a populous country as China cannot afford to throw food away.

I am curious if IEDE would have any good recipes to share, especially in the preparation of genitals. Maybe Dog Dong Chow Mein…

Is it true that you can tell a good restaurant by the number of fleas outside?

I always thought that the Chinese people were relatively poor, but if the registration prices are correct, they must be quite rich indeed! I wonder how much Pekinese Roast costs! Or shih-tzu stew. Probably costs a lot more than Rat Drop Soup.

October 4, 2005 @ 11:14 am | Comment

Beating the dogs to death seems a bit cruel. Why not just shoot them ?

October 4, 2005 @ 11:59 am | Comment

I spent about 30 days in Guangzhou last year and saw many residents with dogs. However I did not see any of these “doggy death squads” then. Yet it does not suprise me.

My feeling then was that most urban Chinese enjoy lives similar to other affluent/growing economies. But it seems to me that there is very little that the average citizen can do to protest these types of government actions.

There are means of complaining about such policies provided to citizens but it takes so long for anyone in a position of authority to hear your complaints that the point is moot by the time someone higher up does anything.

October 4, 2005 @ 12:01 pm | Comment

martyn,

i do not think the ‘letter campaign’ will be effective. it works in US because the letter writers are also the voters.

ask around your neighbors for some pictures of what you have described, and smuggle out to HK for publication. pictures are always more powerful for word.

it would also help (the animals) if you try to present this as a local case of ignorance and incompetent management (which is true, as you do not find this in SZ/CQ), and avoid the mis-representing as an overgeneralization on chinese culture or CCP.
it would also help if you provide constructive suggestions such as inoculation policy/SPCA/etc, in addition to showing the problem.

October 4, 2005 @ 12:25 pm | Comment

Wish there was a letter writing campaign providing sample letters to send to the regime concerning the way they treat human beings…

Yes, it’s a shame that no one has the backbone to criticize the Chinese government about it’s human rights record. If only someone with any courage at all would come along and call them out on it.

October 4, 2005 @ 12:53 pm | Comment

I am curious if IEDE would have any good recipes to share, especially in the preparation of genitals. Maybe Dog Dong Chow Mein…

Ok. Yes. THe following is a translation of a famous post on Chinese forums:

The Nine Most Cruel Dishes In China

9) Alcoholic Shrimp

Put live shrimps into wine, and after a while the shrimps die (technically, they are inebriated). The eaters would taste both the freshsness of the shrimps as well as the fragrance of the wine. One stone to kill two birds, why not?

8) Wind-dried Chicken

This is a Tibetan dish. The Tibetan master would very quickly remove the hair from a live chicken, take out its insides, stuff it with seasoning, then sew it up. Then the chicken (still alive) is hung in the wind, and it will moan in the wind until its death. (This dish is inspired by ancient Chinese kung fu novels by Gu Long)

7) Dragon Beard and Phoenix Claws

The preparation for this dish is unknown

8) Live Donkey Scream

Take a live donkey, and directly cut flesh of its body and cook those pieces one by one. So if you are sitting in the dining room, you’ll hear screams from the donkey in the kitchen, while the meat cutlets are being cooked directly as they are cut.

9) Roast Duck Pawns

Put a live duck on a luke-war hot-plate full of seasoning. Then slowly increase the temperature of the plate. The duck’s pawns are very sensitive, so i’ll start to walk frantically around the plate, and the walk will turn into desparate jumps. At last, the pawns are all cooked (with all the seasoning on the plate), yet the duck is still alive. So just cut off the pawns and serve

4) Metal-plate turtles

Put a live turtle inside a big bowl of cold seasoned soup. Then slowly simmer the soup. As the soup gets hot, the turtle will involuntarily start to drink the soup. So all the flavor and seasoning are captured inside the body of the turtle when it dies as the soup boils. It’s rumored that this dish has been served numerous times for past emperors

3) Scorching Donkey Meat

Puts a donkey in a fixed frame, then start pouring boiling water on its body. The boiling water is enough to cook a part of a body, then cut off that part and serve.

2) Three screams

Take a live young mouse (just-born). Clasp its head using chopsticks, it’ll make one screaming noise. Then dip it into the sauce, it’ll make another scream noise. Then put it into your mouth, and it makes another screaming noise. This dish therefore is called “Three Screams” (San Zhi Er).

1) Monkey Head

Take a big round table with a whole in the middle, then all the diners sit around the table. A monkey is taken to the table and its head is fit through and up onto the table. The head is then fixed using metal frames above the table. The diner are provided mini-hammers. You take the hammer, gently hammer away at the head, the skull will crack easily. The brains of the monkey are totally shown.. Then some mouth-watering diners will take a spoon and scoop some brains from the head.. With the scream of the monkey, a symphony of life-death monkey brain feast has begun.

Are you satisfied now?

October 4, 2005 @ 1:21 pm | Comment

Forgive me if I’m misinterpreting anyone, but I don’t think that Fishling and RS’s thoughts are are incompatible. What I got from their posts is, from Fishling, that there has been a lot of cruelty towards animals in China’s past, and in China’s recent past. And as RS points out, there are plenty of aspects of traditional Chinese culture that emphasize compassion and love for other living beings. There’s nothing wrong with looking to these positive cultural foundations that can serve well in today’s world, and there’s also nothing wrong with rejecting those aspects which no longer have a positive function.

October 4, 2005 @ 3:55 pm | Comment

I think it’s terrible what they’re doing to those poor dogs.
I also think it’s terrible what China has done to Tibet. And what they’ve done to prisoners (i.e. cutting out organs and selling their skin, etc.). During Mao’s time he invoked an “Away With All Pests” campaign where they killed around 1 million sparrows. Needless to say they were shocked at the sudden increase in insects.
But I would never blame any of this on the Chinese people. Chinese people are generally kind and gentle. It’s the government that does these things. and unlike here, the government can’t be recalled or petitioned. To even try this would invite a prison sentence (and maybe even becoming an organ or skin donor).

October 4, 2005 @ 4:08 pm | Comment

But I would never blame any of this on the Chinese people. Chinese people are generally kind and gentle. It’s the government that does these things.

“Gov’t” is not an empty word. Government is made up of people like you and me, no? The Chinese government is basically the total some of those Chinese people who work for the government, no? Last time I checked, 1 in every 15 Chinese people is a member of the Communist Party. Are you saying that if you work for a government, then you are not a “Chinese person”?

When you say “Chinese people”, the word “Chinese people” means people who are genetically Chinese. So are you really saying that those who work for the governmet have been genetically altered? Two of my uncles, one of my aunts, and my grandpa, and many of my friends are employees of the Chinese government. I even had a high school classmate who is now working for the police station in China, he may even be the one beating the dogs. But is he an evil person in life? Is he a bloody murderer? Well he and I have always been very good friends and he helped me many times in life, last time I went back to China, I stayed in his house for many days. He has a good wife, he has a child who is going to college, he is always law-abiding, and is actually quite a nice fellow. Now, is he not a Chinese person?

So how exactly do u mean by “It’s the government, not the people?”. How do you differentiate the two?

October 4, 2005 @ 4:26 pm | Comment

Sam, I got a MASSIVE spam attack and had to delete more than 500 comments. If your comment accidentally got zapped, my apologies.

To all my readers in Russia and the Netherlands, I had to ban all sites ending with “dot nl” and “dot ru” – I can’t spend my entire day deleting this crap.

October 4, 2005 @ 5:17 pm | Comment

It makes no sense trying to claim the high moral ground over the Chinese people on this report (whether the report is true or not is another matter. I often doubt report like this).

My wife works for a comapny that manages money for billionairs in the Silicon Valley. She told me one client spent over US$50000 one month on buying pigs, put them in his ranch and shot them one by one for fun.

There is a pig market likes that so he is probably not alone.

We are really not that much different.

October 4, 2005 @ 6:51 pm | Comment

“I eat meat therefore it’s fine” is not a moral argument – it’s simply justifying your own actions to yourself. The eating of flesh (when you have the option of a vegetarian diet) is immoral but a realistic view shows this practice will continue for the foreseeable future. Therefore people should lobby thier butchers to use the most humane practices possible – all across the globe.

All animals would choose life over being killed but not all animals suffer to the same degree. To those animals who share a great degree of awareness with us (most higher mammals) we owe a greater duty to eliminate their slaughter or ensure its humaneness. As we move down the chain of conciousness (to avians, then to insects ect…) we still owe basic dignity – but our priority must be those animals which can must feel pain.

The less we belong to a society that tortures animals the more we can allow ourselves to feel the emotions of sympathy and compassion that want to flow from us – but recoil violently at the sight of cruelty.

All cultures have a majority of people who will not allow themselves the pain of suffering with our fellow animals – and many brag about their cruelty. Most cultures also have a minority of people who refain from eating meat for reasons of purity and health. And there are those of us who do not eat meat because we can choose a life that is simply less cruel and more compassionate. I read no books to come to this final choice I simply looked honestly at myself and the life around me.

Thanks for reading.

October 4, 2005 @ 7:03 pm | Comment

Sam, I got a MASSIVE spam attack and had to delete more than 500 comments

Uh, oh! They seem to be getting more creative about getting thru the blocks. I’ve lost some good emails thru the use of the “delete all” option. Now I need a key for “delete all trackbacks” but my software doesn’t provide it.

October 4, 2005 @ 7:08 pm | Comment

More sickness from China

As a follow-up to this post, consider this report from the Peking Duck:

Last week in Guangzhou I heard from friends that go…

October 4, 2005 @ 7:44 pm | Comment

My wife works for a comapny that manages money for billionairs in the
Silicon Valley. She told me one client spent over US$50000 one month on
buying pigs, put them in his ranch and shot them one by one for fun.

My wife told me her friend bought hundreds of flying pigs and then he shot them from his private helicopter. He loves to shoot flying pigs.

Why do you post such idiotic nonsense? There is only a handful of billionaires in Silicon Valley, and I strongly doubt they could keep something like this a secret, especially if they share the story so openly with your wife. This “anecdote” is pure bullshit.

October 4, 2005 @ 8:39 pm | Comment

Richard,

Then, what problems do you have over the Guangzhou government’s killing of those unregistered dogs?

October 4, 2005 @ 9:09 pm | Comment

to “Eat Dogs Everyday”; Here in the U.S., we “elect” the government (I use quotes because Bush was probably not legally elected). The government makes decisions – often stupid ones like the Iraq War. The U.S. people can complain and write letters and protest about these decisions, but cannot really change them. This does NOT mean the people in the U.S. government are genetically different from the people who “elected” them. But many of the electorate may not agree with the governments’ decisions.

In China I would think the government would make decisions, such as; killing dogs to get rid of rabies instead of vaccinating them, killing tibetan lamas, killing all sparrows without considering the huge infestations of insects that will result from that action.

I did not mean that people such as your friend are not Chinese, I was just defending Chinese people from the generalization that “Dan” wrote (up near the top) that Chinese people were callous. I’m sure there are people of all types in China – just like here. There are people here who helped the people of New Orleans after the hurricane, and others who thought New Orleans wasn’t worth helping.

And if you enjoy eating dogs – please stay away from our house – we have a beautiful and gentle dog (incidentally, she’s half Chinese SharPei) and you can’t eat her!!!!

October 4, 2005 @ 9:12 pm | Comment

Xing, I have no idea how your question ties in with my comment.

If you read the thread, you will see very clearly where I stand on this topic.

October 4, 2005 @ 9:24 pm | Comment

I Eat Dogs Everyday, cool it. Stop making a fool outta yourself.
Your comments are so full of anger and insecurity.
This is about dogs, not about you, unless you consider yourself a dog.
You may beat yourself to death when you contract rabies. It’s only “humane” to you.

October 4, 2005 @ 9:37 pm | Comment

Sun-Bin

Thanks for the great suggestions. Re photos of the killings, I’d imagine that any such photos would stand a better chance of being taken by local people and then perhaps sent on to Animals Asia.
————————————————–
I want to reiterate, the opposition and outrage to the Guangzhou Govt’s policy of forcibly killing pet dogs has come from LOCAL GUANGZHOU DOG OWNERS.

Do you get that people?

LOCAL CHINESE DOG OWNERS.

Neither I, nor Richard are fighting a one man battle on this issue. My three dogs are safe as the govt teams would not get involved with a foreigner – my dog-owning Chinese friends have all told me this. Therefore it’s not my dogs I’m worried about – it the dogs of LOCAL GUANGZHOU PEOPLE who have all the dog-owners in the city terrified.

October 4, 2005 @ 9:38 pm | Comment

Fishling wrote
============
I agree with your first point that I do love my father more that
I love a stranger. However, Confucius says that one should love ones
father more than one loves ones mother and that one should love ones
grandfather more than one should love your mother.
============
Could you give me a reference? I couldn’t remember Confucius said anything like that. It seems to me he always put mother and father together when he talked about love within a family. If you look at the mourning period, all children are required to mourn his/her mother for three years. Grandchildren only mourn grandfather for one year. If one should love grandfather more than mother, why only mourn the grandfather for one year but the mother for three years?

Fishling wrote
============
But one thing I should remind you is that one thought is never as influential to people’s lives as the cultural structure… Confucius morality has penetrated in the “family” structure only after Ming dynasty, but it’s more about principles about how people should behave when they live in the same family than the doctrines of saints.
============
You probably confused Confucianism with Neo-Confucianism. Confucian family morality had been around for a long time (well-established during the Han dynasty).

Fishling wrote
=============
The thing is facing the flaws of one’s culture is not a disgrace, rather, defending it without knowing it, or knowing it without facing it is a SHAME. Confucius said there must be my teacher among three or more people, so why so disgraceful about admitting we learned something from another cultures.
=============
It’s even a greater shame to label some idea as coming from another culture, while it’s infact native to one’s own country. It’s call “Shu Dian Wang Zu”, i.e. knowns everybody’s history except one’s own.

Other Lisa wrote
=============
Forgive me if I’m misinterpreting anyone, but I don’t think that Fishling and RS’s thoughts are are incompatible. What I got from their posts is, from Fishling, that there has been a lot of cruelty towards animals in China’s past, and in China’s recent past. And as RS points out, there are plenty of aspects of traditional Chinese culture that emphasize compassion and love for other living beings. There’s nothing wrong with looking to these positive cultural foundations that can serve well in today’s world, and there’s also nothing wrong with rejecting those aspects which no longer have a positive function.
=============
Yeah, we both agree there are lots of cruelty in China, but I see the issue to be lying with the lack of education and social chaos, and Fishling seems to think it’s a problem of Chinese culture and national character.

October 4, 2005 @ 10:06 pm | Comment

Uh…why isn’t there a govt. supported rabies vaccine program? There are millions of dogs and cats in the U.S. and there’s no rabies epidemic. I mean if the govt. has to check tags, let them check ’em or documentation. They do that in the states. Dogs and cats only need a rabies vacc. every 3 years.
One more strike against the Chinese Govt. for lack of compassion, humanity and civility.

October 4, 2005 @ 10:22 pm | Comment

Just- don’t worry about people making fools of themselves; we already know they’re fools despite the constant aliases used by these people. I suggest you check out the guy’s blog to see for yourslf how discredited he is at http://flowingwaters.blog.com.

October 4, 2005 @ 10:22 pm | Comment

There are some strange views aired here. It is obviously
cruel and inappropriate to beat a companion animal
to death in the presence of it’s owner.

Where would someone get the idea that someone
objecting to this would condone the killiing of Iraquis
by Americans?

I don’t condone either. Unfortunately I don’t have much
choice about either.

October 4, 2005 @ 11:33 pm | Comment

Cats, rats and bats are are more liklely to spread rabies than a dog. Especially is that dog is owned by a responsible pet owner as most of the dog owners in China are.

The problem lies in the translation of rabies into Chinese. It translates into mad dog disease (‹¶Œ¢•a) hence leading people to think it is spread solely by dogs.

October 5, 2005 @ 12:21 am | Comment

Mitch

Thank you for a bit of commen sense. I’ve been…surprised…at some things on this thread…to say the least.

GWBH

Rabies is “Mad Dog Disease” in Chinese? I never knew that. That might partly explain why there is such misguided and just plain wrong prejudice in China re this issue.

Remeber, the old guys in charge of the govt here lived 80% of their lives with pets being illegal.

October 5, 2005 @ 12:27 am | Comment

Rabies in Chinese translates to “kuang quan bing” I tried posting the characters but they didn’t come through.

On the plus side, China does have a pretty efficient program in place to deal with preventing rabies if a person is bitten by a suspect animal. it is a five shot program over three weeks. I went through it a couple of months ago. The only drawback is you can’t (shouldn’t) drink while getting the shots.

October 5, 2005 @ 12:34 am | Comment

OK now, let me teach you a lesson about Chinese culture.
First we talk about names. There are two principles here:
1. Father and mother, relatives on father’s side and relative on mother’s side are ranked differently, because you inherited your family name from your father, and therefore on the same generation, those who on your father’s side is closer to you than from the mother’s side. In other words, those who bear the same name as your father, they belong to the “inner” relative, and those from the mother’s side, belong to the “outside” relative. (Maurice Freedman, Chinese lineage and society)
One example is that if one’s father died, he has to mourn for three years wearing clothes that are not sewed (Zhan cui). But if one’s mother died, and his father is alive, he only has to mourn for one year wearing clothes that is sewed (qi cui). In other words, the treatments towards mother and father belong to different ranks. (By the way, one has to mourn one year for grandparents on father’s side too)
2. The older and the younger ranked differently. Here I do not want to raise more examples, because many of the names for relatives simply cannot be found in English. All you need to know is the family order is set according to the age, the older, the rank is higher. I am not talking anything emotion here, sure you can love your sister more than your big brother, but you have to respect your big brother certainly more according to family rules.

About Confucius, the Confucius had always just been one trait of elites, and had never reached out to the lives of ordinary people. It was after song dynasty, Zhu Xi along with the Cheng brothers started to make a more influential Confucius, known as now neo-Confucius. The principles used in” family” (zong zu) and all sorts of complicated rituals and manners were created this time too. Unfortunately, because of the mongo invasion, the only system of idea only got enforced after the founding of Mine Dynasty. If you don’t believe me, fine, if you have a chance talk to the top scholars who really know about it and did research about it. You will find I am only their student.

One of your bad habits of arguing is to implying your guessing into other’s meaning. For instance, I used indifference as an example to show why somebody on this board thinks pet dogs should be killed. You probably didn’t read my previous posts, or the posts I was targeting at, but rudely think that I am against the traits in my culture and I shouldn’t talk about it. I never said that killing pet dogs on a mass scale was a culture trait, all I said was what somebody says here was indifferent, and that is typical in Chinese culture. If you don’t agree with me, fine, don’t make stupid guesses. It’s just naïve and foolish, shows your low-morality in arguing.
Here is a book list, do not argue with me before you real these books or you did some actual research. My conscious hurts when my words were abused my some sick –minded folly.
The explanation of the thirteen classics. Beijing, zhonghua shuju 1980
Liang zhang ju: Cheng Wei Lu (on Names) Beijing, zhonghua shuju 1996
Yuan Tingju: GU ren Cheng Wei Man tan (talks on ancient people’s names) Beijing. Zhonghua shuju 1997
J.J.M.Groot, The religious system of China. 1892-1966)

James. L. Watson and Evenly S. Rawski, Death ritual in late imperial and modern china, Berkeley and Los Angeles: university of California press
Ge Zhao Guang: qi shi ji qian zhongguo zhi shi, si xiang yu xin yang shijie (knowledge, thoughts and belief of china before the seventh century) shanghai, 1998
David l. Hall and Roger Ames: thinking through Confucius

October 5, 2005 @ 12:49 am | Comment

Wow, now that was an interesting post… maybe dial back on the absinth a bit…

October 5, 2005 @ 1:01 am | Comment

Fishling,
I agree that “father’s side is closer to you than from the mother’s side”, but what you’ve said was “Confucius says…that one should love ones grandfather more than one should love your mother”. I’m still curious about this. Let’s say in the term of mourning cloth, if someone’s mother dies, he would wear qi cui and carry a wooden mourning staff, if someone’s grandfather dies he should wear qi cui but carry no staff. How does this support your idea of loving grandfather more than mother?

And please do re-read your own post, particularly the line “And we haven’t noticed that this ‘diversity in love’ resulted in our indifference towards people we are unfamiliar with, resulted in the breeding ground for brutality”. You CLEARLY said partial love is a Chinese culture trait and that partial love implies brutality. Some simple logic then tells this means “Chinese culture implies brutality”. If you forgot what you’ve said, don’t lash out at anyone who does remember.

October 5, 2005 @ 4:32 am | Comment

I wonder why I just couldn’t make myself understood. Did I make it clear in my last post that the family order is primarily based on age? Tell me now, if one’s father died, should one listen to his mother, or should he listen to his grandpa on the father’s side? What I meant love here is different from emotional closeness, I meant respect and obedience. As to “this diversity in love resulted in indifference” didn’t you pay attention to “result in” or I just misused this word. What I meant is Confucius idea of love has an impact on indifference towards other people’s plight, and I meant not to say “Chinese culture implies brutality”. BY THE WAY, INDIFFERENCE IS THE TOLERANCE OF BRUTALITY, MAYBE ONE KIND OF IT, BUT NOT ALL OF IT. Clear?
End of argument now. When one discussion simply turned in to attacks on the other person, and when argument simply becomes a word game, it does not make any sense any more.

October 5, 2005 @ 5:50 am | Comment

I wonder why I just couldn’t make myself understood. Did I make it clear in my last post that the family order is primarily based on age? Tell me now, if one’s father died, should one listen to his mother, or should he listen to his grandpa on the father’s side? What I meant love here is different from emotional closeness, I meant respect and obedience. As to “this diversity in love resulted in indifference” didn’t you pay attention to “result in” or I just misused this word. What I meant is Confucius idea of love has an impact on indifference towards other people’s plight, and I meant not to say “Chinese culture implies brutality”. BY THE WAY, INDIFFERENCE IS THE TOLERANCE OF BRUTALITY, MAYBE ONE KIND OF IT, BUT NOT ALL OF IT. Clear?
End of argument now. When one discussion simply turned into attacks against the other person, and when argument simply becomes a word game, it does not make any sense any more.

October 5, 2005 @ 5:54 am | Comment

OK, since we’re getting into debates about origins of Chinese culture, and what is or isn’t appropriate for Chinese people to do, let’s get into some of the really ancient stuff (my specialty).

Emperor Yu was walking along and he saw a man putting up nets on all 4 sides of a field … he ordered him to take down the nets on 3 sides, and then told the birds and the beasts, “if you want to go left, go left, and if you want to go right, go right. If you go straight ahead into the net, then that’s up to you.” All the people of the land saw this, and were amazed at his benevolence and righteousness, and said that since Yu’s virtue extended to even the birds and the beasts, then surely he deserved their loyalty. Soon enough, the whole nation deserted their previous loyalty, and Yu became ruler of China.

Now, a lot of people who know little about China like to say this is a tale of ecological awareness, but that’s a load of rubbish. It’s a tale of Chinese values. A person who values even the birds and the beasts is someone who is righteous indeed. It showed that he was a superior man, and therefore entitled to the rule of the people. So … to those of you who argue that it’s a Chinese “value” to treat animals badly … then you are identifying with the losers in this moral tale.

And, once more I repeat what I said: isn’t anyone else going to question the truth of this story? Are you really ready to believe it all? No possibility at all that it’s somewhat distorted and misrepresenting a more moderate dog control policy, in which a few beasts have been destroyed in much less brutal fashion?

October 5, 2005 @ 7:27 am | Comment

What has all this to do with the right to beat dogs to death in public parks?

October 5, 2005 @ 7:30 am | Comment

Keir, do we have proof that any dogs have in fact been beaten to death in public parks, aside from a media report? (and I don’t classify that as “proof”).

And … what it’s got to do with is a wider debate on whether it’s ethical, in Chinese traditional values, to be nasty to little beasties or not.

October 5, 2005 @ 7:43 am | Comment

FSN, Martyn seems to believe it’s true, and he’s there on the ground. Martyn?

October 5, 2005 @ 7:44 am | Comment

I wouldn’t have written the post had it been only based on a newspaper article.

I visited my usual veterinary clinic the other day – empty. The regular doctors refused to say anything more than they’d “had some trouble this week”. I then called the head vet as she’s Taiwanese as I have her number in case of emergencies. She told me what I reported in the post. My girlfriend also told me that this was going on in Guangzhou about 10 days ago – long before it made it into the media.

One of my girlfriend’s friends saw a government round-up squad in Huiqiao Park carrying off dogs and clubbing them before throwing them into the back of a truck. She was warning us to either keep our dogs inside or take them out late at night.

I’ve also spoken to others regarding the actions of the govt squads as it’s on the lips of every dog-owner in Guangzhou. I actually live here remember.

October 5, 2005 @ 9:00 am | Comment

I don’t think there’s really anything wrong with killing some dogs.

I have seen some old Chinese seniors in America, I once told them stories about American doctors separating conjoined twins. They then told me that back in pre-revolution China, if a conjoined twin was born, they were killed. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it, its best for the babies and for the parents.

I think it is you Westerns who support “Natural Selection”, if those who are born to die, then just let them die. DNA’s may produce low-quality products once in a while, and those low-quality products need to be removed. But there are people, intentionally or unintentionally, try to put on a facade of “morality” and fake a sense of benevolence.

If a dog has rabies, then not killing it will only hurt other dogs and even humans. So if you are insisting of keeping raby-dogs on the streets, I have no choice but to conclude that you wish ill will upon us humans.

Same thing with mad cows. We inhesitantly mass slaughter many mad cows to prevent further spread of the disease.

Same thing with some democracy movements, people like Liu Di, Wang Dan, Wei Jingsheng, etc. If they are caught by the CCP, then just let them die, it only means that they are too low-IQ’ed. How come Mao was not caught by the Nationalist? How come Hu Jintao was not caught by the CCP, hmm? If your democracy movements are really strong, let’s see you topple the Chinese gov’t, hmm?

October 5, 2005 @ 2:23 pm | Comment

Fishling wrote:
What I meant love here is different from emotional closeness, I meant respect and obedience.
———————–
Well, if you say so then there’s no need for discussion anymore.

You started off by saying the Chinese learnt universal love from other cultures and contrasted universal love with the Confucian ‘partial love’. Now you’re saying when you used “love” you “meant love here is different from emotional closeness, I meant respect and obedience.” Great, so your idea of Confucian ‘partial love’ means respect and obey others depending on their relationships with you, thus ‘universal love’ means respect and obey everyone equally? If so, go apply your version of universal love to animals and respect & obey your neighbor’s dog.

Of course, you may insist when you’re discussing Confucian values you used “love” to mean ‘respect and obey’ and when you’re discussing universal love you used ‘love’ to mean ‘caring’. Fine, then please don’t compare those two different theories of love as if you’re using ‘love’ to mean the same thing.

October 5, 2005 @ 2:36 pm | Comment

I think that just about everything has its good and its shadow side, and that includes cultural traditions of any country. I recall a lecture from a noted Chinese Confucian scholar – sorry, I don’t recall his name – he believes there are many values in Confucianism that have positive relevance for today. At the same time, he points out the potential negatives as well – in his argument, the tendency for “political Confucianism” to be used to justify repressive, authoritarian regimes.

So honor what’s good, but consider the shadow.

October 5, 2005 @ 7:31 pm | Comment

I am not an animal rights activist, however, people that think humans are “the chosen” being are religious quacks. Supposidly we are more educated and smart than animals. well then how can you be so arrogant and ignorant to think that humans (otherwise known as evolved mammals) are any different than any other living creature? So we are more advanced. There are many more planets out there where humans mammals could be considered the dumb “cow” of the planet. Wow, eat what you like, we are at the top of the food chain. Please don’t be so stupid as to think we are more special than any other living creature in the massive complex cosmos!

October 5, 2005 @ 8:11 pm | Comment

Besides we are only strong in packs. Lets place one of you special chosen beings in a cage with a bear and see who comes out on top of the food chain.

October 5, 2005 @ 8:13 pm | Comment

we are the strongest most advanced creature on this planet. We are also so power hungry. arrogant, conceded and retarded that we create all the problems of the world. Way to go human race. We are so evolved! keep up the good work you dog eating, human beheading, religious fact ignoring, selfish beings. If there really is a god do you think he/she/it will be proud of what we have done in our time? grow up people! lets invent the idea that we have a spirit while nothing else does simply so we can cope with the idea of death. That is our weakness as a mammal that can think too damn much.

October 5, 2005 @ 8:18 pm | Comment

Martyn, may I ask how they kill these dogs? I mean, of course we kill animals in slaughterhouses, but I would hope it’s by a single blow to the head and the body used and not simply thrown in the back of a lorry and dumped somewhere. If these dogs are being BEATEN to death in front of civilised people in the 21st century, could you provide some evidence? I really find it all too hard to believe….

October 6, 2005 @ 12:52 am | Comment

Hi Keir, as above, all I’ve been told is “clubbed” with sticks and cudgels. I never asked specifically where the clubs were landing but I assume the quickest and easiest way would be aiming for the head.

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the photos. I’m constantly on the look out for photographic evidence as that would get this story onto the front pages of newspapers around the world as well as stopping people from whining about whether the story is true or not.

As I said, I live here and it would be more than just a coincidence if Taiwanese vets, friends of my girlfriend and the scores of local pet owners who I chat to on my estate every night all said exactly the same thing – and were all wrong.

I contacted Animals Asia as I’m hoping that someone, somewhere here in Guangzhou will take some kind of photo, even on their camera phone, and pass it on to the HK charity. I think that’s the best chance we have of getting some real evidence.

Just one or two photos could make all the difference.

By the way, one strange thing that I’ve noticed is that although the local people here are frightened for their dogs, they are neither surprised nor outraged by this policy. I think that it comes from a long past of not being able to change things.

It’s good to remember that those in China of middle age and over lived at a time when PEOPLE were getting tortured and clubbed to death here because of bloody politics.

October 6, 2005 @ 1:05 am | Comment

Martyn, I’m happy to read more about your attempts to confirm this story. I’m interested to hear more, if you get anything. I don’t doubt your integrity, and I have more confidence in what you’ve written after hearing your follow-up posts, but (like Keir) I still feel that the initial post is probably a bit more sensationalist than the reality on the ground?

Don’t get me wrong. I’m really happy we’ve got someone like you “on the ground”, and I enjoy reading your posts. All the same, I like evidence!

October 6, 2005 @ 1:36 am | Comment

Thanks FSN9. Please see my comment immediately above re my efforts to secure evidence, above and beyond the testimonies of people who have witnessed it.

Sensationalist or not, what I heard here in Guangzhou (long before word got out to the wider world) agreed with the content of the newspaper article. I simply kept the original bits of the article.

I’m glad the say that this post was picked up and linked by 12 sites that I myself have seen – including the world’s biggest blog – boing boing.

That was what I was aiming for when I wrote the post.

October 6, 2005 @ 1:44 am | Comment

Yeah, I’m with FS#9. I don’t doubt the veracity of the story, but let me put it this way:
I bought this fantastic BBC boxed set on WWII. To see veterans from the Burma campaign recount what they went through, I can’t possibly appreciate in its entirety. When I read of the stories of the Cultural Revolution I’m amazed and incredulous- was that only 35 years ago? Now I’m hearing about something today I just can’t comprehend- where is the logic for the officials involved in antagonising its own people- middle-class at least? Why is there no outcry? Clubbing baby seals back home is one thing- you’re unencumbered by witnesses. But this is entirely different. I’m not even broaching the idea of compassion or beastliness…

October 6, 2005 @ 2:09 am | Comment

You’re right, and with you both, but bear this in mind:

To my knowledge, this has only been happening for about 12-14 days. Also, it’s only happening in one single city in China. China’s media wouldn’t dare report it and the people here have no means of protesting govt policy that doesn’t endanger themselves.

Evidence doesn’t drop from the sky of course. At the moment we have the written testimonials of GZ dog-owners who have sent emails to Animals Asia in HK, we also have the reports I’m receiving here in GZ from witnesses and the stuff that my family are also hearing.

On top of that, I’m now looking down through my bedroom window onto the large park below in the middle of my estate – and I see no dogs. There are usually dozens around at any one time.

Obviously, it would be fantastic to easily and instantly have all the hard evidence necessary before I posted but that would be impossible for the reasons I set out above.

Nevertheless, I reasoned that I had enough preliminary evidence, coupled with the emails received by Animals Asia to post about this topic. After all, I have actually spoken to people who have seen this happening and spoken to a vet who saw it happening as well. These reports corroborated both the media reports and the articles on Animals Asia.

October 6, 2005 @ 2:59 am | Comment

1) Don’t feed the trolls!

2) Eastern and Western culture differ greatly in what animals are “food” and what animals are not. I cringe at the treatment of dogs in cultures that believe they are food (the South Korean pictures were rough, just rough), but I don’t believe I have any right to pass judgement on that matter.

3) Beating pets is an entirely different thing than handling livestock for slaughter. Beating pets is unacceptable to me. Ever. Pets are animals we have made entirely dependent upon us, and as such we owe it to them to fulfill our part of the contract and take care of them.

4) Kier said, Well, once again the French show that they if there’s any issue that merits condemnation and scorn, they want to be part of it. . ..

Look, the Sun is a lousy news source, and that photo looked completely faked (notice the lack of blood oozing from those “wounds”?) I’ll believe this when it is reported by a reliable news source, not the European version of the Weekly World News.

The French are incredibly civilized about pets. You can take your dog anywhere in France. If you bring your dog to a restaurant in France, the chef will cook up a little something for your dog, usually at no charge. I cannot imagine a culture so completely in love with dogs using them as shark bait.

5) Arguing about whether the mistreatment of pets is important enough for us to even discuss in a world where innocent people are being slaughtered, where children are being raped, where all manner of inhumanity is being practiced is silly. Since when do you have to have the biggest problem to be able to talk? Anyone who says “Yeah, but you guys do _______ (fill in the blank), and what about that?” is trying to avoid responsibility and shift the focus of the conversation to you. The only reasonable response to that is, “If you have an issue with that, I’ll be happy to discuss that with you later, but right now we’re talking about this .”

Anyone who has an adolescent child should learn that really soon, or you’ll spend years chasing your tail.

Okay. Done now. Continue your food fight.

claire

October 7, 2005 @ 10:27 am | Comment

Great comment Claire, thanks very much. Wish you’d have been here 100 comments ago.

Unfortunately, the “Yes, but your country does……whatever” is an argument that I see more and more. Very sad. It requires zero thinking and, as you say, simply aviods the issue.

October 7, 2005 @ 10:40 am | Comment

Anybody question “why” Chinese government officials are trying to kill dogs in cities? Possible answers:
a) out of boredom
b) born evil
c) they like dog meat
d) pure madness
e) bitten by a dog before
f) wives been bitten by a dog
g) step on dog shit
…….

October 7, 2005 @ 3:18 pm | Comment

I hate China. because they took away our jobs!

October 8, 2005 @ 6:38 pm | Comment

The world is a big place. We do not all share the same values. In western culture today, dogs are pets, not food. This is not so in China. Just think about it. When Hindus see you killing cows for food, I’m sure they feel they same way you feel when you hear about people in China eating cats and dogs.

BTW: I’m not Hindu. I’m Christian. I am an “overseas chinese”, ie our families left China many years ago, and we now know of no relative there. I live in Malaysia, and no, over here, we don’t eat cats and dogs.

October 9, 2005 @ 7:00 am | Comment

These dogs were pets. A lot of people in China, believe it o not, love, adore and treasure their pets. If you read the article and Martyn’s comments you’d know how distraught pet-owners in Guangzhou are. For you to imply that loving one’s pets is a cultural phenomenon – and one not shared in China! – as opposed to a universal fact is bizarre and wrong.

October 9, 2005 @ 7:14 am | Comment

That is horrible! Those government officials deserve to be beaten in front of people who love them. What idiots. That is so screwed up I can’t think of any way to express my feelings towards those morons in writing.

And the stupid person on here who says they eat dogs for breakfast deserves to be eaten by cannibals. A three yr. old has a much higher maturity. Dogs are loving, cute, and intelligent creatures, which can be said about certain people on here.

And you people who don’t have a problem with it have no feelings whatsoever. I don’t understand how anyone can hate dogs, but if you do, you can atleast have some sympathy for the people. Gosh, you’re heartless idiots.

Why do MOST people complain about dog-eatting? Because dogs are loyal, loving companions. Pigs are stupid, I don’t care what any pig afficiando has to say, and when was the last time you heard of someone having fun with their pet chicken? NEVER. Dogs, and cats too, are like children, whereas farm animals are not. They will never provide to joy pets provide.

October 27, 2005 @ 5:57 pm | Comment

okay now this is my point of view,
i think chinese people are the most disgusting, inhumane people in the world, i hate the fact that they eat anything they want, like bloody dogs of the street and call it a delicacy.
who the hell would do something like that, are they mentally un-balanced or something? What would happen if a bloody ching-chonger ate a human being and called it a delicacy? would we let them eat humans too?
there so fucking dirty, they invented fucking sars and bird flew and now they are spreading it around the world.

November 8, 2005 @ 3:41 am | Comment

Hey “dogs rule” I can understand what you are saying, but you should also understand that farm animals feel emotion and pain too. It is a fact that pigs are known to be, if not more, as smart as dogs. The focus here is cruelty at its worse and it is happening in China right now. One does not need to degrade different species of animals to save another. They should all be treated humanely. I do agree how ignorant the Chinese Government is and how sad and terrible this whole reality is. Today CNN had a very good clip exposing the illegal Food Markets in China which slaughter wild and domestic animals for food in the most horrific ways. Please go to the link or below by copy and pasting into your browser to learn more about the HORROR. Everyone should take action NOW to stop these fools!. Just getting upset is not enough.

http://www.hairproducts.com/view_product_SAVE-ANIMALS1.htm

November 20, 2005 @ 9:40 pm | Comment

well anyway i hope all of you dog eating, selfish inhumane, bastards feel the same pain and suffering you cause to these poor intelligent creatures!
You should learn to put your taste buds aside and think of the way you are killing these animals, atleast cows and sheep get the pleasure of being killed with a bullet to the head, but the chinese dont know anything about animal rights so they just put the harmless creatures into boiling pots alive!

December 1, 2005 @ 3:40 am | Comment

The fact that people are ignorant enough to believe that the more you torture an animal, the better it tastes, makes me laugh. What idiots! Oh, and let’s brag about how we twisted up a live octopus, wrapped it around a stick, dipped it in sauce, then choked to death trying to eat it…dumbasses. Is this culture, or just plain stupidity. Yeah, we have slaughterhouses, and some people get lazy, and animals are mistreated, but at least we are not so ignorant to believe that our torture to another creature is for the sake of a better meal. Are people that naive? And, you say you don’t care how they kill the animals. What a selfish individual you are to say that. Maybe that is why there is a limit to the number of children in a country, and people live so close together that they must smell their neighbor’s bad breath. Oh, let’s cram as many dogs and cats in a cage as we can, so we don’t have to spend as much money on gas to carry the animals around….such tightwads. Maybe that is why the eyes slant from sucking in to SAVE breath……Oh, yeah, I forgot, when you are reincarnated you can take the money to your next life with ya….Retards….So tight your eyes are slanted….I am so glad to be an american with big eyes and a big heart. Hooray for america! Oh, yeah, if you hate dogs so much, why then do you create robotic dogs that barks and act like a dog. You can create it here in America while you are going to our fine American schools. How disgusting are the slanted eyed idiots.

May 28, 2006 @ 11:41 pm | Comment

There is a book I once read, “Dominion: The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, and the call to Mercy.” The author wrote this extrodinary book that will open anyone’s eyes about how so many of our fellow beings are being treated. It is very disheartening to see so many of these comments that are opposed to animal husbandry and that all beings, whether great or small should be treated with love and respect. “Refraining from cruelty to animals is a different matter, an obligation of justice not for us each to weigh for ourselves. It is not simply unkind behavior, it is unjust behavior, and the prohibition against it is non-negotiable. Proverbs reminds us of this??a righteous man regardeth the life of his beast, but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel? “Refraining from cruelty to animals is a different matter, an obligation of justice not for us each to weigh for ourselves. It is not simply unkind behavior, it is unjust behavior, and the prohibition against it is non-negotiable. Proverbs reminds us of this??a righteous man regardeth the life of his beast, but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel?

August 1, 2006 @ 11:35 am | Comment

I read every single comment prior to what I’m about to type. The only thing I feel is great sadness at the many responses regarding the brutal culling of 50,000 dogs in China over the course of 5 days last week. I understand each and everyone’s views, but many of them have gotten way off course and have strayed to unimaginable lengths. The true issue at hand here is the cruel, hard fact that thousands and thousands of dogs are being bludgeoned to death…that’s approx 10,000 dogs a day. It is simply barbaric in this modern day and age no matter what country you live in. I condemn worldwide, not just in China, but globally, any form of cruel mistreatment towards animals. I am an American and know there is animal abuse/torture done here too and I’m sickened by that. I don’t doubt it happens here too, but I will admit with pride that the U.S does have a strict policy of vaccinating our pets every 3 yrs and documenting it. It’s such a simple, yet effective solution against any form of rabies or any virus outbreak against the human population.

I simply cannot understand for the life of me why the local Chinese Governments cannot implement a plan like this? Bludgeoning dogs by the tens of thousands solves nothing, absolutely nothing, save for traumatizing the pet owners or other witnesses. I do not condone this form of cruel act towards ANY living creature in such a public way. or non-public way for the matter. What happens if another ‘outbreak’ occurs? Send out another squadron of ‘killing teams’ to kill even more dogs? Are they thinking by killing ALL dogs so indiscriminately, they’re killing the rabies virus? Scientifically it does not work that way. You cannot abolish the rabies virus by committing genocide on the canine race. They need to get to the root of the problem. Instead of rounding up the animals to be culled, round them up to be tested and vaccinated. Taking such an easy/lazy approach to killing them instead is heartbreaking. It shows such a lack of extreme weakness in China’s healthcare system overall. If this form of ‘solution’ is what local Chinese governments will fall back on each time an epidemic occurs, when will it end..rabies occurs in other animals as well, will they all be killed as well? My mind is still reeling at all this barbarity and my heart mourns for all the dogs (and animals worldwide) that suffers daily at the hands of humans.

August 5, 2006 @ 9:53 am | Comment

I read one article about this actually on accident.

..and then I read another.

..and another… and as I’m on break and sitting at a computer in a plumbing warehouse in Texas, I’m crying about a bunch of mutts who were savagely beaten with no sense of compassion.

It is with compassion that humanity connects itself, heals, and grows and this act has evidenced the hault of said traits amidst the governments responsible.

..and when people call them ineffective, they’re not just whistlin’ dixie.

Most of the things I could say here have already been said but I will note that indiscriminate slaughter has never solved any problems.

A patient with a deadly disease is killed to prevent contamination. The disease won.
The cultural minds of a society butchered to prevent social uprising. Martyrdom.
Genocide resulting in anger and fear and sadness creating a breeding ground for resentment and pain. Then more people die.

The worst things that any of us do to one another come from sadness and pain that we somehow feel justified in doling out on others. When you see your beloved pet taken from your child’s arms before being brutally beaten and tossed in the back of a truck, you look at the culprit and feel forever justified in hating them and/or whatever institution they stand for.

Then it goes on and on.

And to those who who commented on the animals slaughtered for food, I love fried chicken and rare steak.

Those animals are raised for food to feed not only our own people but the world economy. As emotionless as industrial slaughterhouses are, they are cultivated in order to feed people, to give them jobs, and such.

Pets are not property that serve as companionship for their owners. They are living creatures that we bring into our homes, hearts, and families. They are cherished friends, and long-time buddies, and they are innocent of the malice and cruelty only known in humans.

All in all, this is just another way government removes the power of responsibility by not taking any and taking away the avenue for responsibility for it’s citizens so that nobody is responsible for anything, not even the lives of those who can’t whisper a word of opposition.

August 7, 2006 @ 4:07 pm | Comment

Sydni – Well said. You couldn’t have expressed it more eloquently than what you’ve just done. May I have your permission to copy and paste your comments as a bulletin on MySpace.com? I would like to forward your comment (which I find so moving) to the rest of my friends who are members of various animal support groups. I’m sure they will agree with you and/or open the eyes of other people in a more reflective manner.

August 9, 2006 @ 1:01 pm | Comment

Sydni – Well said. You couldn’t have expressed it more eloquently than what you’ve just done. May I have your permission to copy and paste your comments as a bulletin on MySpace.com? I would like to forward your comment (which I find so moving) to the rest of my friends who are members of various animal support groups. I’m sure they will agree with you and/or open the eyes of other people in a more reflective manner..

August 9, 2006 @ 1:02 pm | Comment

They are barbaric beasts always have been and always will be. I don’t even refer to them as chinese, i prefer gooks, chinks, slopes, zipperheads, dinks, and slanty-eyed yellow bastards.

October 13, 2006 @ 5:52 am | Comment

I think every single government official who slaughtered a dog should be rounded up in a public square and have their heads slowly sawed off with a hacksaw for all to see. Then their decapitated heads and bodies should be thrown into a lion den so they can be devoured.

October 20, 2006 @ 9:32 am | Comment

just shows how backward and fucked up these barbaric cocksuckers are to think that viscously beating an innocent pet dog to death is acceptable. evolution in reverse. death to gooks!!

October 22, 2006 @ 1:21 pm | Comment

Some farm animals do not have the same intelligence as a cat or a dog. For example I know of a chicken that got shot in the head with some kind of bb gun and it lived for a pretty long time. As far as people eating cows and other types of meat, it is controlling the population. If no one ate meat the whole world would be overrun with animals and people and not enough food for everyone. I know noone really wants to know what goes on in the slaughterhouses because then they would feel guilty about eating beef and pork. I’ve never felt any burning desire to see what goes on in those places. If I did I’d probably never eat meat again. As for hypocrisy, I think everyone is a hypocrite about something.

It is cruel to beat those dogs. Cruel for the dogs and the owners alike. I’m deeply sorry for anyone who lost a pet like that. But I don’t think its a lack of empathy in the Chinese people, I think that its a lack of the ability to do anything to stop the beatings from happening. I can’t claim to have an understanding of the laws and how the government works in China, but if the pet lovers there want a change then they will have to do something about it. I’m not saying that to be a b*tch, I’m only trying to say that Chinese people would have a better chance of getting anything done in China as opposed to someone in America trying to get something done in China.

October 26, 2006 @ 7:53 pm | Comment

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