Amusing thread

In Chinese and English — and it all started here at Peking Duck.

Bingfeng and Bellevue, I love you both. Now, why can’t you love each other?

The Discussion: 30 Comments

richard just reminds me that this post is a great case study for chinese bad language.

you can find bellevue uses shanghai dialect, canton dialect, english and standard mandarin to say all the dirty words to me. from a pure academic point of view, he is a master of chinese bad language. tian can prove that.

April 1, 2005 @ 8:35 pm | Comment

But Bingfeng, don’t you think by now that he’s really Chinese, and not Japanese or anything else?

April 1, 2005 @ 8:37 pm | Comment

Bellevue’s a troll, I don’t see how you can’t recognize that Richard.

April 1, 2005 @ 9:11 pm | Comment

Bellevue is intelligent, as is Bingfeng. I don’t see either as a troll. They’re on opposite sides of the fence. Just because his viewpoint is different from your own doesn’t make him a troll. I’ve really enjoyed a lot of his comments, as I’ve enjoyed yours even if we don’t always agree.

April 1, 2005 @ 9:16 pm | Comment


I will vouch for Bellevue.

Bellevue IS IN NO WAY JAPANESE. Bellevue is Chinese.

You have this thing about Japan don’t you. You insult me for ‘being Japanese’ fair enough, I guess that I deserve it, but not all Chinese people think the same way that you do. If they did nobody would have bothered ro turn up at Tianaman square.

April 1, 2005 @ 10:22 pm | Comment

Dang, I wish I could read Chinese better…

April 1, 2005 @ 10:25 pm | Comment


BingFeng has this blind hatred of Japan and likes to use Japanese as if it were an insult and not a nationality.

I presume that Bingfeng had a bad childhood experience of Japan, maybe the realization that people from Japan are just as human as people from China. This must have left some deep mental scars.

Bingfeng is the only person I know who can read an article that I have written that says that Japan feels deep shame for the war, and say that it doesn’t, five seconds after denouncing me for ‘being a Japanese’.

So, I’m a Japanese, and I’m writing an article that says that Japan (thus I?) feels deep shame. Let’s add this up.

‘Japanese’ writer + article about shame = Japan feels shame

Pretty clear, right? Not in the mind of BingFeng.

BingFeng also used to think that I was Bellevue by another name. Which of course would mean that I was fluent in Chinese.

April 1, 2005 @ 10:28 pm | Comment

First of all, I would like to keep my political and religious views absolutely neutral.

Having that said, I am actually impressed with “Bellevue”‘s creative usages of the Chinese language and its dialects.

But, I am looking forward for Bellevue to show off his/her other dialet skills.

April 1, 2005 @ 11:59 pm | Comment


i have never said that bellevue IS a japanese. you should be very clear that other people in this blog suggested bellevue is ACB, and i have never said that bellevue is ACB.

ACB is annoied by this post:

ACB made a comment as below:

“Important Notice for Idiot, and others

From this comment onwards, readers who are unable see the distinction between visiting a war shrine and worshiping war criminals will have their comments removed.”

i don’t understand why ACB thinks i am a japanese-hater, my attitude towards japanese is like this:

actually i had very good experiences with japanese people

as for bellevue, well, no matter how we view bellevue, we have to admit that he is a great guy in using chinese bad language

April 2, 2005 @ 2:16 am | Comment

“BingFeng also used to think that I was Bellevue by another name. Which of course would mean that I was fluent in Chinese.””

show me where i said that bellevue is ACB, or ACB is bellevue.

you are really a funny guy!

April 2, 2005 @ 2:19 am | Comment

Richard: You break your own rule of not involving peking duck into personal claims – who is Chinese and who is not, etc. 🙂

Why was I outraged by being called a Japanese or Taiwanese, while I certainly do not think there is anything wrong of being a Japanese or Taiwanese, or even a Tibetan in Chinese occupied Tibet?

First, because I said I am ethnic Chinese. You can’t insult me by calling me Japanese, as those Chinese neo-Nazis may have imagined. But it surely amounts to an insult by implying that I lied on my identity. The dirty words in Chinese is just a little proof that the perpetrator is dead wrong.

Secondly, as I said before, this mini-smear campaign is beyond personal attack, but serving a CCP’s favorite stereotype: all ethnic Chinese love CCP, love to be ruled by CCP, hate Japanese, support ‘taking back’ Taiwan at any cost, and value bread and butter over free speech, so on and so forth. JR fits in this stereotype, so he is fine. I don’t fit, so I have to be Japanese or Taiwanese to save the stereotype.

The entire agenda is to convince the West that Chinese and tyranny are a perfect match, and that China has its own ‘special circumcetances’. That’s why the ‘blog’ you mentioned is in English, for it serves as a part of the dui4 wai4 xuan1 chuan2 (foreign-oriented propaganda) machine. To give them some credit they are adapting well (yu3 shi2 ju4 jin4) with the advent of IT, thanks to professor Li Xiguang who is streamlining the monistry of truth. Now they even have a Shanghai blogger, to Orwell’s amazement!

That’s why that I’m here, too, for a very different purpose. Their lies need to be exposed, the silent minority (I do not want to pretend to be majority) should have a voice, and it should be heard.

April 2, 2005 @ 4:05 am | Comment

“Shanghai blogger”

bellevue, thanks for deleting “s” from the “blogger” 🙂

may i give you a suggestion? i find you are interested in politics, and you do have something to say, why don’t you set up your own blog? i believe your views, no matter how i disagree with you, will benefit many people and china as a whole, and you don’t need to dump dirty words in my blog to make yourself unhappy. i am serious.

April 2, 2005 @ 5:31 am | Comment

When I was reading this, my wife commented, “it is total waste of your life to write this kind of garbage, and why not go to play with your son.”

Politics could be entertaining. But obsession with it or personal feud due of politics is not good for your health.

Love your enemy. You never know what they can do for you. For example, it is hard to imagine the left and the right among oversea chinese are so united without Lee and Chen’s Taiwan independence movement. KMT and CCP are united for the same reason.

April 2, 2005 @ 9:27 am | Comment

Not surprising, since KMT and CCP are the crap of the same caliber – sorry, communists are more successful. They slaughtered more Chinese.

Steve, it’s a little too early for you to boast. You can do that after you guys have the same control over Taiwan as over Hong Kong. But not now.

April 2, 2005 @ 10:00 am | Comment


I presume that Bingfeng had a bad childhood experience of Japan,

No no no, you get it all wrong. Just ask you a question:

Did Adolf Hitler have a terrible childhood experience because of German/Austria Jews?

That says it all. I’m not saying that he equates Hitler, but substitute that with many other anti-semetic Germans, and the situation stays.

April 2, 2005 @ 11:20 am | Comment

Bellevue, on this I agree with Bingfeng – why don’t you start a blog? Many of us would be interested in reading it.

In the meantime, I’m still hoping for a vocabularly lesson in Shanghai obscenities…

April 2, 2005 @ 12:32 pm | Comment

Other Lisa:

I swear that I have never used those words in real life. They sound much worse than Mandarin counterparts. It’s posted there only because no ousiders could possibly know of that, much less for foreigners.

April 2, 2005 @ 12:44 pm | Comment

Guess that means I’ll have to stick to the Beijing version, then 🙂

April 2, 2005 @ 12:55 pm | Comment

I will be the first to admit the KMT has failed to a considerable degree on Taiwan. If they had done a better job, there wouldn’t be any degenerate separatists. Either the nationalist education hadn’t done its job, or the military statistics bureau hadn’t properly weeded out the subversives. If only Dai Li had not passed away in 1946, had he been around Lee Teng Hui and his traitorous ilk would certainly not be alive today.

April 2, 2005 @ 6:51 pm | Comment

It is not just the Shanghainese obscenities, it is the Shanghainese superiority complex over other Chinese that’s really offensive. I am beginning to discover this as I visit more Chinese language forums and discussion groups.

April 2, 2005 @ 7:01 pm | Comment

It is not just the Shanghainese obscenities, it is the Shanghainese
superiority complex over other Chinese that’s really offensive.

A Shanghainese fellow I knew explained this to me in surprisingly frank terms. It’s justified, he said, because the Shanghainese are more clever/cunning than the others (like those dumb Beijingers) and they’re the ones who make all the money and it’s because of Shanghainese people that Hong Kong became such a huge financial success so this arrogance is well deserved. I don’t know if he’s right or wrong, but he was certainly full of himself. (Was he full of anything else?)

April 2, 2005 @ 7:10 pm | Comment

Yeah, but Beijingren got soul!

April 2, 2005 @ 8:22 pm | Comment

to be honest, i am still confused why bellevue hate me so much.

i never called his name in this blog, and i never said that he is a japanese or ACB or something like that, and i never said mainland should use force to unite taiwan …

it could be very interesting to understand the reasons behind bellevue’s vehement attacks on me, so i go back to check the previous posts and find this:


I’m impressed and amazed by your patience, but sorry, I don’t admire it. It’s a waste of time for you to offer Politics 101 here.

Look at that guys’s blog: every and each line echos a government propaganda talking point. He is simply not serious about truth, and his blog is only a scoreboard of his daily job. I don’t think even he himself believes in it. You think it’s political speech, in fact it’s commercial speech. He may quote deTocqueville, but the buttom line is: Beijing is all right, America is all wrong.

Ignore him. In China those people are called wang3 te4, who stage a paid show working for CCP. He won’t be able to harm you, but you can never educate him. Please just give up.

Posted by bellevue at January 31, 2005 01:10 AM”

and the latest comment of bellevue in my blog says:

“how much do you get paid for keeping writing these gov-sponsored crap? ”

it seems bellevue has a very strong hatred towards chinese government and misguides his hatred towards everything chinese

not sure how much he believes his assertion that my blog is sponsored by the government … it really opens my eyes, you know, just like a man pointing to the mirror and says the person in the mirror is a monster he hates …

the link:

April 3, 2005 @ 1:28 am | Comment

Bing Fen I would swear blind that I saw a comment by you that said something to the measure of ‘Japanese like Bellvue/ACB’.

I can’t tell you the URL, maybe you could find it for me? I might have missread it.

April 3, 2005 @ 3:04 am | Comment

Bingfeng and others

Don’t take it personally, I appreciate a well structured argument, and I appreciate that people have different opinions, but I don’t appreciate it when you continue to use the phrase ‘worshipping war criminals’, and I don’t appreciate it when you judge Japan’s national war shrine by the inclusion of war criminals who rate as a little more than an ‘also attended’ in a shrine for several million people.

Don’t let the inclusion of a murderers tarnish the rest of those in the Shrine, which I may add includes Koreans and Taiwanese from Japan’s rather vile colonial history, and don’t believe that those who are visiting Japan’s war shrine for other reasons are doing so purely because it contains mass murderers.

There are 2.5 million other reasons to make a shrine visit.

April 3, 2005 @ 3:14 am | Comment


Actually, Hitler is supposed to have had a bad experience with Jews, though as a young man rather than as child.

Before he became the founder of the NSDAP, Hitler was a struggling artist. Many claim that he worked in areas with a high proportion of wealthy Jews, and that they snubbed his artwork (as in, they didn’t like it). It is said that he went on to become embittered that people who had so much begrudged him even a small fee for his artwork, and that was what founded his hatred of the Jews.

Then again, there the Jews were an easier target than most to use as a figure of hatred because they were highly visible, they kept themselves appart from much of Germany society, and they managed to maintain a higher proportion of their wealth, during the post war depression that gripped Germany, because they were more financially astute and better connected than most.

April 3, 2005 @ 3:23 am | Comment

“Bing Fen I would swear blind that I saw a comment by you that said something to the measure of ‘Japanese like Bellvue/ACB’.”

i swear to the world that i have NEVER said ACB is bellevue or bellevue is ACB.

other people in this blog suggested that bellevue might be ACB because they have similar writing styles and view points, but i NEVER agreed with that, and i NEVER said that.

it is absolutly IMPOSSIBLE for me to list ACB/bellevue together because i don’t know ACB at that time, and since later i have ACB and bellevue’s IP addresses, i told one of the readers of peking duck that bellevue is not ACB.

if ACB saw such a post, it is his duty to find that post.

why ACB created something that has never existed before?

April 3, 2005 @ 5:34 am | Comment

“Don’t let the inclusion of a murderers tarnish the rest of those in the Shrine”

my question is simple – why those murderers appear in that shrine and are worshiped by japanese politicians and former japanese soilders?

April 3, 2005 @ 5:40 am | Comment

Zzzz …

April 3, 2005 @ 8:49 am | Comment

I second that Other Lisa! One other thing I find puzzling is why nobody ever seems to challenge the Shanghainese assumption that not only are they the wealthiest, but they are also the best looking and are genetically superior to all other Chinese. Personally I don’t really find this to be the case.

But seriously, what I am seeing in these Chinese discussion groups is a disturbing trend towards judging everything by wealth. Regional rivalries aside, what I find completely offensive is the tendency of equating all personal self-worth with the amount of money one makes and how “western” one appears to be.

April 4, 2005 @ 8:01 pm | Comment

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